Need advise\help on shaking a destroyer mid patrol

[Chewsmoka]

I have my current patrol paused right now as I successfully attacked a large convoy sinking 2 large tankers and 2 medium merchant ships, as well as two destroyers.

While trying to sneak away, I am being hounded by a lone destroyer that keeps circleing/depth charging me. I'm running silent at 103 meters and need to tips on how to shake this desy and proceed back to port. Have 2 compartments with major dmg the most being port diesel destroyed.

How should I proceed? any help from the pros on the forum would be greatly appreciated. :salute:

[Rafael]

What mod do you have?

[Brag]

Can you go deeper?

Take a look at my Kielman webbie (link on my sig).The moment DC are in the water go ahead flank back to silent running as DC stop exploding. have your rudder at 5 degrees port or starboard.

Good luck!

[Von Talon]

What is realism? Can you see your stealth meter? If you do, dive to 200 meters and complete silence. Or year and date? Does your destroyer have asdic? How much torps you have. If your destroyer has asdic or he just detects you from 200m you shuld just rise to periscope depth and when the destroyer is making her final attack run (when she stops doing patterns and heads towards you (usually when she is about 500m after you), fire your ass torpedo. If you havent got stern torpedoes, use you bow torps.
Rise to 30 meters and try to evade the DCs. When she has passed you, and she is turning for another attack run, fire torpedo.
If you have no torpedos at all, go to deep as possible, silent running, and when you are about 1-16 km away from her (depending from the weather and sky), SURFACE :up:! When in dark or storm, she can't see you. Move slowly away when she is searcing you from below the surface!

[Chewsmoka]

Since I'm brand new to SH3 I am using easy settings. I can see my stealth meter which is red. I tried diving deeper but I can go no more then 102m. I'm in a IXB in March 1941 time period.

First I'll try Brag's suggestion and see if I can slip away, if not, I will try to goto 30m and get a stern shot off, but it seems that destroyers that are following you avoid torps most the time because of their speed ( for me at least )

Thanks for the help and I'll let you know how it turns out. :)

[JohnnyBlaze]

Hi there, Chewsmoka! :salute:

I think you can only open the tubes at 20meters or less. Atleast on a type 7!

You're on pretty shallow waters, but good luck with the evasion :up:

[Brag]

Hi there, Chewsmoka! :salute:

I think you can only open the tubes at 20meters or less. Atleast on a type 7!

You're on pretty shallow waters, but good luck with the evasion :up:

I never attack anything with escorts unless I have 200 meters, or more, under the keel. As far as trying to duke it out with a destroyer actively seeking me, forget it! I like long careers :DL and parties at Chez Margot:woot:

[TarJak]

Good advice. 102m is too shallow for attacking something with an escort. best you can hope for is to go silent running stay below 2kt and change course every time you hear DC's being dropped over head. Always change course using the rudder control NOT the compass and keep your rudder angle at less than 10deg Starboard or Port to make sure you don't lose speed in the turns.

TBH your chances are slim but particularly if there are multiple escorts nunting you even in 1939, but it is possible to escape if you are lucky. Take it as a lesson and move onto the next career.:DL

[Bosje]

I generally give it hard rudder when the destroyer is overhead and then go to 10 degrees or amidships as soon as i'm turned away from the destroyer's course (all of this at ahead flank of course)

for your predicament: while the destroyer is closing in, try to start to turn at 10 or 20 degrees while going to 2/3 - standard - full as the DD is getting closer and closer, that will screw him up a bit

lastly: often they are depthcharging a spot where you were a while back but not anymore. only turn and run when you're sure he's actually on to you. if he's not sure where you are, stay silent and still until his asdic actually hits you

I remember one episode when I got away from a bunch of escorts in '43 while i could only dive to 150m but that was really lucky

in '41 it should be possible to stay ahead of one destroyer

good luck

[Brewtality]

Try this (http://hubpages.com/hub/World-War-II-The-U-Boat-Tactics) link.


U-Boat Evasive Tactics

A U-boat’s best defense is concealment. But once this is blown, the next best recourse is to dive immediately. Ironically, if a U-boat is spotted on the surface, the first thing the escort will do is to shell it immediately and force it to submerge. This will break up the attack sequence and neutralize any threats of torpedo attacks. If given the opportunity, escorts will even ram a U-boat, whether it is on the surface or at periscope depth. The resulting damage will put the escort out of action for many months, but if that could sink a U-boat, then the price was considered well worth it.
Once spotted, a U-boat requires at least 30 seconds to crash dive to a depth deep enough to evade the resulting depth charges. If the attacking vessel is too close, it might have better chances running on the surface to build up sufficient speed before ordering a crash dive. A U-boat can outrun most escorts, including corvettes, but not modern destroyers.
Once underwater, the cat and mouse hunt begins. The escort will be searching for the U-boat by listening in to the hydrophones and pinging with its sonar. On the U-boat, the hydrophone operator too will be listening in for the escort’s screws. He will be able to determine the location, speed and the type of ship (merchant or warship) on the surface. These will provide the only clues as to the activity on the surface.
Depth reduces the effectiveness of sonar. The deeper the U-boat, the more difficult it is to locate. A good evasive measure is to dive as deep as possible and as quickly as possible. This not only reduces the sonar signature, but also provides more time to evade depth charges and will keep the enemy guessing on the U-boat’s location by the time the depth charge reached the desired depth. Also, since sonar is more effective when pulsed at flat surfaces, a skilled commander will try to keep its bow or stern pointed towards the attacker as much as possible. U-boats are capable of very silent operations. But in order to remain undetected, it had to move very slowly underwater, which meant a low speed of only 2 knots. If this was not silent enough, the commander could further order the boat to run on silent mode. In this mode, all non essential activities are halted. Torpedo tubes are not reloaded, bilge pumps are run by hand and all non essential personnel are sent to the bunks. Silent operation keeps the U-boat’s noise low, and also helps to conserve battery power.
There are several occasions when an escort will lose contact with a submerged U-boat. During the explosion of a depth charge, an intermittent blackout occurs, deafening the pursuer’s listening devices until they calibrate themselves. When the escort passes directly above a submerged U-boat, both sonar and hydrophone contacts are lost. Sonar is useless at short ranges and in addition, the U-boat’s position would be out of the sonar’s arc of detection when the ship passes directly above. Also, due to the interference of the ship’s own propeller noise, hydrophones cannot pick up any sound coming directly from astern of the ship. This provided several window of opportunities for a U-boat to change course or to run at high speeds without being detected.
U-boats could also launch BOLD canisters to confuse their attackers. Consisting of a chemical compound which emitted large quantities of gas, the resulting bubble cloud could resemble a submerged U-boat. Unless the sound operator was especially skilled, it was often difficult to distinguish it from a real U-boat. The allies called this a “Submarine Bubble Targer” (SBT).
It was not an easy task locating and attacking a submerged U-boat. Much skill and persistence was needed, and was especially so if the U-boat had already dived very deep beneath the sea. Sometimes escorts forced a U-boat to the surface by waiting it out. Since U-boats had very low underwater speed, escort captains knew that it could not travel very far. In addition, it could not remain submerged for very long periods. Appreciating the fact that carbon dioxide levels will start to rise, escorts will often wait in silence until the U-boat was forced to surface by itself due to the lack of breathing air. During the war, more than a handful of U-boats were defeated by sheer patience.


(Taken from the link above)

[Jimbuna]

I think your best course of action would be to kiss your sweet bottom goodbye, start a new career and learn from the experience. :DL

In RL, Kaleuns never got a second chance.

[maxextz]

ive found if i go to 80mtrs and with silent running but set the speed to 1 kts while zig zagging it works for me one night i spent 2 hours doing this and got away in the end. but 1knot is the best speed imo.:salute:

[JohnnyBlaze]

Yup take this as a lesson to gain experience. That experience can save your butt later on :yep:

@Brag> ah those parties.. :()1:

[Sailor Steve]

I can see my stealth meter which is red.
Red means you're making a lot of noise. Go to Silent Running. You're not safe unless it's green. Even then active sonar can find you, but at least they have less chance of hearing you.

[Damo]

During the explosion of a depth charge, an intermittent blackout occurs, deafening the pursuer’s listening devices until they calibrate themselves.

In real life yes but is this true to the game? I thought I read somewhere on these forums that the explosions had no effect on a warship's ability to hear you. Fair enough, if there's only one hunting you then you're in it's baffles when the DC's start going off so you can go to flank speed anyway, but what if there's 2 or more? Can they still hear your engines at flank during DC explosions even though the vessel that dropped them can't?

I'm interested to find out as not modeling a DC 'blackout' seems a rather dumb oversight on the part of the programmers.

[Brag]

In game, when you have two or more escorts after you, it is very well represented. Therefore, it is the explosions that deafen the escorts what helps you escape. Very difficult to do when one is listening while the other attacks. :dead:

[Jimbuna]

In real life yes but is this true to the game? I thought I read somewhere on these forums that the explosions had no effect on a warship's ability to hear you. Fair enough, if there's only one hunting you then you're in it's baffles when the DC's start going off so you can go to flank speed anyway, but what if there's 2 or more? Can they still hear your engines at flank during DC explosions even though the vessel that dropped them can't?

I'm interested to find out as not modeling a DC 'blackout' seems a rather dumb oversight on the part of the programmers.

When being hunted by two or more hostiles you will/should notice that only ever one attacks at a time, the other/others continue to listen.

The only time an attacker is unable to hear you is when you are in his baffles, the other/others only lose your sound signature for approximatelt 10 seconds after the depth charge explodes....not all that realistic but the constraints placed upon us by the game engine I'm afraid.

[Damo]

Ahh, ok. Thanks for the clarification as I always worked on the assumption that DC's had no effect on the enemy's hearing ability. Wish I knew where I'd read that but I've done so much reading here my brain's like an SH3 sponge with no room for source info, lol.

So it's 10 seconds grace we get after the explosions eh? Enough time to whack it in flank and get the speed up for evasive turns and stuff I guess. I take it that that is hardcoded with no scope for adjustment? Would of been done already I suppose...

Touching on a comment above, I tend to pop my Obs scope up above it's housing and use it to see those DD's coming up on my rear so I can see if it's gonna be a problem or not and turn left or right depending on it's trajectory. Of course, this only works when it's light enough and I have water opacity set to 20 in SH3Cmdr. Were obs and peri scopes not used in this way? I also have a surround sound speaker set up that works well for hearing where they're coming from when in the control room, I love that.

[Jimbuna]

Touching on a comment above, I tend to pop my Obs scope up above it's housing and use it to see those DD's coming up on my rear so I can see if it's gonna be a problem or not and turn left or right depending on it's trajectory. Of course, this only works when it's light enough and I have water opacity set to 20 in SH3Cmdr. Were obs and peri scopes not used in this way?

In the murky Atlantic I reckon they'd be hard pressed to see beyond the bow or the stern :hmmm:

[popcorn2721]

I just wanted to let the OP know that Ive had luck (doing this more than once, not just making a wild shot) with hitting a charging destroyer with a rear fired torpedo at around 700meters (before the unit starts doing that zigzag at around 600 meters). Although the pics are from 0 degrees (facing the destroyer), I think it works better from the rear. I set the rear torpedo to fast (electrics work even better here cause they are not seen by the target) and fire when the stern is at 180 degrees to the bow of the target (it seems that the margin for error here is pretty tight, maybe only around 5 degrees to either side will cause a miss for sure). I usually only have time to set up the shot and check it once (make sure that rear door is already open too) before I have to fire that eel and get the heck out of there. After you fire, watch for the impact but do not dive or turn left or right as you want the boat to continue to chase you in a straight line. Interrupting line of site will cause the destroyer to lose you for a moment, in that time it will turn left or right causing your torpedo to miss or jacking up the angle of impact so that it will not detonate. With any luck your shot will be true and this will be the end results of your tactics. I'm not an expert by any means but have spent much time over the last 4 years Ive had this game, wringing every ounce of enjoyment out of this game.. if anyone has any corrections or anything to add, feel free.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/popcorn2721/SH3Img9-9-2009_123929_468.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a400/popcorn2721/SH3Img9-9-2009_123931_375.jpg

[Snestorm]

IXB, eh? That's my baby.
I don't run noise meters but, from your description, it sounds like Silent Running is not set and/or your speed is over 2 knots. Here are my sugestions:
Right click the CE so you are at his station.
Turn your view to the right so you can see both depth guages, and above them your RPM Guage.
Click your Lee Helm so you make the numerical entry, as opposed to "slow", osv.
Tell the CE to set Silent Running. (I guess you knew all that, so now comes the IXB trick).
Set your Turns (RPM) at exactly 90. This will give you about 1,9 or 1,95 knots.
Now you've set the real Silent Speed for the real IXBs.
At 102 meters you have about 34 seconds to evade DCs.
120 meters will give you 40 seconds, which isn't bad.
150 meters will give you 50 seconds. That may be good enough not to break Silent Running when he drops. Keep your aspect low, and keep your fingers crossed.
Good Luck on this, or more likely, future patrols.