Depth Charges: Strategies to escape

[DigitalAura]

In one of my other threads, STEAMWAKE had referenced the hedgehog weapon in a discussion about depth charges and ASW.

the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog_(weapon) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog_%28weapon%29)

I noticed this :

"When a depth charge explodes it can take 15 minutes before the disturbance can settle down enough that sonar becomes effective"

Does this play out the same in SH4? I wasn't aware that charges rendered PASSIVE SONAR useless for a spell. Do you guys hit the gas when you hear charges? What are your strategies in escaping from them? Should you stay silent? Does it depend on how close they are to your whereabouts? [beg pardon, I know there are probably umpteen topics related, but I didn't get far tyring to answer this question specifically about slipping away during depth charging]

[Sailor Steve]

Active sonar was also disrupted by clouds of bubbles formed from underwater explosions. Both were also inefective at speeds greater than about twelve knots (this was increased to around 18 later in the war). This is not reflected in the game.

I don't know about the "15 minutes" part though - I was under the impression that it was 1-2 minutes at best. Don't know for sure, though.

[ETR3(SS)]

I'd say the 1-2 minutes sounds more accurate than 15mins. It's all about what noise is in the water!

[DigitalAura]

so... I guess what I'm asking is... what is the best way to slink away.

When the enemy is pinging... they already have your location right? So do you just give it all the gas?

When they are stopped, they are 'listening'...so you need to be silent. That's easy, but I can never figure out what to do when they're using ASDIC.

[Horatio Nelson]

deploy decoys as a trap !!

kind regards , Horatio

[Raven08]

"Pray" :up:

http://sevrinblacke.com/shIV/wagons.jpg

[Diopos]

so... I guess what I'm asking is... what is the best way to slink away.

When the enemy is pinging... they already have your location right? So do you just give it all the gas?

When they are stopped, they are 'listening'...so you need to be silent. That's easy, but I can never figure out what to do when they're using ASDIC.
Minimize your "profile" towards the "pinging" ship, ie try to keep it at 0 or 180 relative bearing (point your bow or stern towards it).

[Armistead]

Go deep below the thermal layer...Overall, and mod's differ you can easily go another 100 below default.

After I shoot, I go flank and deep and turn away to get out as fast as I can. They are headed for your shooting point. If you can escape the circle of death before they arrive...much better. Once they get close to your shooting point go silent and keep a narrow profile to the nearest ship.

Yes, go flank and turn about 20 degree's when a ship passes over, they should fall behind. I found 20 degree's get's you out of the way of the Y guns and the back ones. If you turn too hard, you may get hit with the Y guns. Main thing is to break the circle of death.

If you're playing stock....you have decoys. Use them, but again a mild turn is in order.

You just have to find a balance of speed, depth, ect. If you're playing TMO the escorts are much harder.

[V.C. Sniper]

Go deeper...

[DigitalAura]

Thanks Armistead (again). I'd love to watch over your shoulders some time... this seems like good advice. I was wondering how the methods in real life (like turning to 0 / 180) translated into the game.
I don't have any decoys (perhaps there arent any in TMO?) so i have to get the hell outta Dodge before the circle of death closes me in.

So...

1/ reverse course (get away from shooting location)
2/ FLANK SPEED and DIVE DEEP (to get under thermal layer) until they arrive at shooting location.
3/ silent running, keeping 0/180 degrees to the closest ASW unit.

(When you say 20 degrees, does it matter whether it's 20 or 340?)

[Sailor Steve]

When the enemy is pinging... they already have your location right? So do you just give it all the gas?
No, it just means they are looking. Stay slow until you actually hear the DD's engines overhead. At that point, due to the fact that sonar has a limit to the angle it can aim downward, they can't hear you anymore. They are effectively dropping 'blind'. That's when you go to flank speed, turn hard one direction or the other, and drop 20 metres or more. Then go silent again.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/sonarpatterns.jpg

[SteamWake]

Its been an sop for a long time, due to knowing the DD is basically deaf during its 'run' and for a bit of time there after.

The sop is if your in the way of his DC run... first say a prayer then ring up to flank and throw the rudder hard to port or starbord. Continue the run at flank and build up some momentum untill the cans are finishing making a racket then straighten out the rudder and drop back to a couple of knots.

Its pretty easy to tell when they start their run, they cruise around a bit then straighten out and hit flank. You can follow this on sonar easy.

Of course if he isnt even really close just maintain your present course and speed.

Ive escaped a few times alive doing this. In deeper water of course :rotfl:

[Armistead]

I don't throw hard either way. The ships of RSRD often have 6 Y guns that fire way off to the side, turning hard often puts you right in the bullseye. This also slows you down, why a smaller turn will not.
That's why I just turn about 20%, enough to miss the sterns, but not so much that you turn into the sidethrowers. Plus I want to stay on a course out of their search zone and not keep turning into it.

Either way doesn't matter as far as turning. I play with cams off, so I just listen to sonar and when they pass, crank it out of there.

With TMO, you get decoys late war as was historically correct. When I do have them I will drop them before I pass the thermal layer.

[Armistead]

Thanks Armistead (again). I'd love to watch over your shoulders some time... this seems like good advice. I was wondering how the methods in real life (like turning to 0 / 180) translated into the game.
I don't have any decoys (perhaps there arent any in TMO?) so i have to get the hell outta Dodge before the circle of death closes me in.

So...

1/ reverse course (get away from shooting location)
2/ FLANK SPEED and DIVE DEEP (to get under thermal layer) until they arrive at shooting location.
3/ silent running, keeping 0/180 degrees to the closest ASW unit.

(When you say 20 degrees, does it matter whether it's 20 or 340?)

Works most the time, but obvious sometimes you shoot closer in. I always take time on my approach and pick the weakest point to attack. The best way to escape dd's is learn tactics to where you never have to deal with them.

[Highbury]

After I shoot, I go flank and deep and turn away to get out as fast as I can.

I am no expert but to me this just sounds bad. As soon as you release you are going to flank and telling the escorts you are there. Convoy starts zig-zagging while torps are en-route, DDs coming at you pinging.. yeah... just all bad. Why would you want to be so loud at such a time?

Why not go slowly at least until your torps impact. Then by the time they know you are out there you are no longer at the firing point. I like to be two thermal layers down before they have any idea I am there.

I fire, dive and turn away while still silent running at slow speed. Most times I can slip away and they will never know where I was. (TMO)

[gimpy117]

are sonar coverage angles modeled in game? :hmmm:

[Raven08]

Agree with Highbury for the most part. After 'delivering the fish' I go silent, go deep and creep away. No noise, no flank speed, drama queen, twisting and turning, throwing decoys or any of that.

I don't want to advertise, I want to sneak away. Stealth is your friend. :|\\

[DigitalAura]

After I shoot, I go flank and deep and turn away to get out as fast as I can.

I think Armistead meant "After I 'hit'..."

[Armistead]

I am no expert but to me this just sounds bad. As soon as you release you are going to flank and telling the escorts you are there. Convoy starts zig-zagging while torps are en-route, DDs coming at you pinging.. yeah... just all bad. Why would you want to be so loud at such a time?

Why not go slowly at least until your torps impact. Then by the time they know you are out there you are no longer at the firing point. I like to be two thermal layers down before they have any idea I am there.

I fire, dive and turn away while still silent running at slow speed. Most times I can slip away and they will never know where I was. (TMO)

I do it right after I shoot, not hit. Course I use a variant of OKane Vector shooting style. Course as I say that, I do stay silent until the last shot, Turn hard and fire the sterns as I'm leaving. Just make sure your not in the sonar cone. If not, then I will wait until hits. If you wait too long, you can't escape, so you want to flank out. They don't have enough time to react done correctly. Works like a charm. My setups I come from a weak side. Always let the lead dd pass so I'm not in his cone, shoot and usually long gone why they're searching my rear. TMO1.7 RSRD 100% no contacts or cams.

[Highbury]

I understood what you were saying. What I meant was, if you go to flank after firing (before they hit) then alot of the time the DDs come right for you because they hear you go to flank (with hydrophones, not sonar). Why would you want to do the noisiest thing you can do underwater when you still want them to keep sailing straight for your torpedoes? Silent Hunter... I have gone 3 - 4 patrols without an escort ever knowing where I was because I don't use flank near them unless in an emergency.. I thought that was the point.

[SteamWake]

Ive been having a hard time with DD's lately. It seems like no matter how close I get, just tried firing from inside of 400 yards set to fast, the DD scoots out of the torpedoes path just in the nick of time.

Ive tried fanning out a couple of torps in a spread anticipating their 'scoot' but even then they usually dodge em all.

Then they become a major pest chasing me off.

Yea I know I should leave the DD's alone and go after the merchants but the though of a half dozen merchants left alone without their escort is pretty tempting.

[DigitalAura]

Couldn't agree more, SW. Given the opportunity (like being night time and only 2 escorts) I'll go for the DD's too. The real nice opportunity is when the dummies actually STOP to listen!
Last night I tried taking out a DD that was 90 AOB with the O'Kane method and I was 2000 yards away... Couldn't hit him with one. Replayed the scenario close to a dozen times and each time he'd evade me. (which is odd, because it was so dark and rough I couldn't see him even from that distance).
Once he even detected me moving 1/3 running at periscope depth, and began to turn in towards me... riiiight. I actually got lucky firing 3 torps (spread by a degree) by striking him dead centre on his bow as he made his run at me! Sank him with one!

[Bubblehead1980]

I have used the method of Tommy Dykers , who commanded the USS Jack on many patrols for a while now and it works.I learned this from the book Silent Running by Admiral James Calvert who was a young Ensign under Dykers.

Dykers would go deep and quiet and give it full right rudder, so he was making a constant slow turn...so they didnt have a strait running target, it threw their sonar off a bit.

I decided to try this out in SH 4 and it works.Of course my modification is to stick to running ahead flank when i hear escort over me and the splashs from the charges hitting the water, give her a good 35 second run at flank and rudder amidships....the noise from the escort running fast to get away from the charges masks your sound.After the speed burst, i go to all stop and full rudder opposite of what rudder was before the speed burst.So if was at right full rudder before went amidships for the "burst", i go to full left rudder and them back to starboard.This really works, it throws even the best escort off.

I play TMO and the escorts are the toughest in SH 4 and it works.Even worked on old Bungo Pete in shallows of Bungo Strait.Also worked for me in the Gulf of Thailand when bottom was 210 feet and I was 200 feet with 6 escorts after me...lots of charges and noise, minor damage from a lucky charge, I made it out though.Of course it was late war and decoys helped but works fine without decoys.

Anyway thats how i evade depth charges.No matter what you do, sometimes they just get lucky though.The key is if they have you and are on top of you dropping, to go ahead flank and get out from under them.Also, switch the knot-o-meter instead of telegraph, run a half a knot by clicking half way between the one and zero...keeps you well below 50 RPM(look at the RPM gauges by the helmsman in conning tower) if you are deeper, 1 knot(just below 50 RPM) is safe, calm seas or shallows...half a knot works, can tell a difference.

[breadcatcher101]

It's that damned icon on top of the water over your boat that gives your position away. Sometimes I wonder if the Japanese can see it!

Really, go as deep as possible, turn often, when you lose them sneak away.

[TwinStackPete379]

I've started using the destroyers' blind spot to my advantage lately. Once they have made a dc run, i'm on their 180, and they have trouble hearing me. I punch the throttle, to get as much distance between me and them. once i think i'm getting close to their detection cone, i drop back to 1 or 2 knts. It's been working really well.

[Rebel]

BEN LOOKING FOR IT IN SH 3 > HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU ARE IN THAT COLD OR IS IT HOT PLACE ? :wah::timeout:

[DigitalAura]

Thermal layer is about 170 feet in SH4... if you turn off the Time Compression and dive you'll hear your Diving Officer tell you when you've reached it. There's also thermal layers deeper too.

Hey, and that tactic with the circular (full rudder) path really works? I can't imagine it would...after all, here's the problems I see:

1/ you never leave the scene of the crime this way...there's more chance that even if you lose them for a spell, they'll likely find you again due to the proximity.

2/ DD's don't leave either....at least not before you have to surface for air or your batteries finally run out.

The protocol is to NOT deviate from a straight escape... unless you need to lose them again and are in the patch of a direct DC run. Once you manoeuver your sub into an escape bearing, go deep, go silent. Best escape bearing is the one that exits at 180 to the DD (and keeps you as small a target as possible in his active sonar).

Other comments on the circular / full rudder escape route?