seen it all before?

[RICH12ACE]

why did they not do ww1 subs sim for silent hunter 5? we have seen ww2 all all before sh3 :-?

[ichso]

Because the company doesn't want to take the risk of repelling potential buyers with a rather unpopular scenario.

You as a dedicated submarine sim player (are you?) would still consider it a sure buy, but those more casual gamers probably would keep away from it because they can't associated the WWI scenario so well to something.
Since Das Boot people associate WWII submarine warfare with great adventure and tragedy, and the whole time period seems pretty popular for PC war games in general as well.

[pythos]

WWI is for the most part a forgotten war. In General it was more stupid than WWII. It was brought about by the assassination of an Archduke. It resulted in the most brutal and inhumane form of fighting, trench war fare. Chemical war fare was used with impunity, and just in general it was a disgusting and pointless venture, that directly resulted in WWII.

As far as WWI submarine warfare. For the most part it was done on the surface, and under extreme rules. There was no torpedoing a merchant without its knowledge. The sub had to surface, stop the target vessle, get the crew off and clear, and either torpedo, or deck gun it to its grave. Usually deck gunning is what was done due to the lousy and expensive torpedoes.

Warships were another thing, but you think our type VIIs, and IX are slow, just have a go with a WWI era paraffin powered boats. They could not dive very deep, had charging times that made the S boat look positively sprightly.

Not until very late in the war, the enemy did not have listening gear (and neither did you), and asdic was very very late in the war.

To subnuts, this may be an interesting set of circumstances. To the average player this is dull and boring. Submarines already have that albatross, when it comes to the general playing public, and we have to remember that UBI is trying to make money for their efforts.

Perhaps modding SH5, or sh4 to something emulating WWI would be a feasible prospect.

[Jimbuna]

Ubisoft have made a commercial business decision to cater for the most popular era....WWII ATO.

I doubt they feel the need especially in the present economic climate to highten the chances of a potentially poor selling game.

[ETR3(SS)]

Might I suggest you try Shells of Fury. I hear that's a decent WWI sub game.

[TDK1044]

Ubisoft have made a commercial business decision to cater for the most popular era....WWII ATO.

Exactly. It's as simple as that. Also, to many people, World War 1 is synonymous with infantry battles in the mud and dog fights in the air.

[FIREWALL]

With IIA, IIB and IID and a little Imagination there's WWI.

[AVGWarhawk]

WW2 just sells. Simple as that. For some it is and was a very real war as they know or knew someone involved with it. It is a subject of great study interest. Although it is billed as a world war in many respects it changed the world mentally and materially. People will pay money to study it and experience it via simulations, etc. Furthermore, if it were not for improved graphic engines and such the genre would probably go away. Improvement in computing capability will certainly maintain development of more WW2 based games. Just the way the mentality and the markets work concerning WW2.

[Schultz]

The IIA was the first sub of WW1 , so there you have it .

[Sledgehammer427]

Rich,
In the SH4 Mods Workshop, iambecomelife, Keltos and I are working on a WWI mod for SH4, it is still in it's infancy though, we don't even have all of the subs we need yet.:haha: But it IS in the works.

[GoldenRivet]

The IIA was the first sub of WW1 , so there you have it .

how can this be when the first Type IIA was built 17 years after world war one ended??? :hmmm:

[FIREWALL]

Rich,
In the SH4 Mods Workshop, iambecomelife, Keltos and I are working on a WWI mod for SH4, it is still in it's infancy though, we don't even have all of the subs we need yet.:haha: But it IS in the works.


That sounds great. :woot:

how can this be when the first Type IIA was built 17 years after world war one ended??? :hmmm:

It's all they got to work with ? :yep:

[oscar19681]

why did they not do ww1 subs sim for silent hunter 5? we have seen ww2 all all before sh3 :-?

Oh comeone wwI subsims must be so boring!

[pythos]

The type II was infact based off a WWI boat known as th UB type. It had some similarities, but was inferior to the type II. The type VII, the darling of the Kriegsmarine and it seems this forum, is a direct descendant of a WWI boat as well. I think it was the UC class. But the WWI version was also inferior.

Funny enough, the first fleet boats for the US were based off and derived from a WWI boat taken from the Germans at the end of the war.

[Webster]

Oh comeone wwI subsims must be so boring!


well a sim based off of ww1 would have slower less armed less capable subs requiring more stratigic planning an skill to set up your attack so i can see where some may find it too slow and boring but others would see it as white knuckle nail biting edge of your seat experience.

so its all in the mind of the player whats fun or not.

[JScones]

One word: demand

demand = $

[SteamWake]

I agree we have seen it all before but now its from a new perspective.

Besides mention war / submarine to the average Joe and they immediatly think of this era. So yea thats what sells.

I have no problem with it.

[Jimbuna]

One word: demand

demand = $

Rgr that http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[JU_88]

Seen it all before?
Yeah well the same can be said of the entire game industry in general (to a degree.)
I could say that for just about every new FPS or driving game gets released until the end of time.

The game industry (like any other) is there primarily here to make them some 'bludclart moneh$'.
As others said, a WWI subsim would proabably fail to generate enough return - for a big player like Ubisoft anyway, you're gonna have to rely on the good old 'indie' boys for that sort of thing - sadly.
WW2 Uboat & Fleetboat Sims are already a niche market in the grand sceme of things. we're pretty damn lucky to have any new subsims under development in 2009.

[Arclight]

Bang Bang, Is Creativity Dead? (http://kotaku.com/5349308/bang-bang-is-creativity-dead)

More of the same isn't nescesarily a bad thing. :)

[JU_88]

Intresting read Arclight,
Ive noticed that Japanese gamers tend to be more... well, open minded / crazy, hence why Japanese developers can afford to be more daring...
'Virtual Fisherman' anyone?
Chicken & egg scenario I guess.

[Arclight]

I particularly like how they look at the psychological aspect of it; people making the same types of games because those types of games inspired them, and the powerfantasies bit (I checked my HD: over 40 games installed, and only 2 that don't contain any weapons and/or violence :o ).

Yes, the industry should expand and try new things, but at the same time they need to make more of the same to stay in business (that's where the demand is).

Maybe big companies should spend a bit of budget on developing something new every now and then, instead of absorbing another independent studio that is doing fine, or building another lavish office complex to handle all the complaints about DRM and quality. :D



*If we all massively support SH and make sure they make tons of money, we might just see a SH set in WWI, because Ubi believes subsims are commercially viable in general, not just WWII ones... yeah, that's probably just as unlikely as it sounds. Still, we can hope. :hmmm:

[Highbury]

we have seen ww2 all all before sh3 :-?

He is right, we have already done WW2 with the first person view, interactive crew, strategic enemy reaction to events etc..

Hang on.. no we haven't.. so this game might have something NEW to offer to the genre?? How unexpected.

Seriously though, I would love a well done WWI sim but I am not blind to why Ubisoft would do another WWII one. For the fans of WWII games every new installment adds something and makes it worth playing.

Of all naval sims made, WWII ones sell the best. (we here at Subsim know that sometimes game quality and not public interest is behind that) In most cases Atlantic based WWII sims outsell Pacific based ones. (again, see brackets above) The people who control what does and what does not get made don't care WHY. They just know that a WWII ATO sim is their most guaranteed return for investment. Period.

I enjoy the genre enough that if a sim keeps moving forward and offering more, I would gladly see them improve the same area of the same war many times over.

[Iron Budokan]

When most people think about WWI, if they think about it at all, they associate it with trench warfare and the Red Baron. Underwater submersibles isn't even on their radar, so to speak.

Most of us here love sub sims. But we're not the majority of the people who buy these products. While we are vocal in our support (or condemnation) of a sub sim, our purchasing power compared to the general public who might pull a sub sim off the shelf is vanishingly small.

Like it or not, your average gamer is more likely to associate a sub with WWII than he/she is with WWI. It may not be right, or fair, and perhaps it puts limits on the kinds of sims we would all like to see, but that's just the way it is from a business standpoint.

[Subnuts]

Well, I for one am holding out for Silent Hunter VI: Wolves of the Indo-Pakistani War.

[Highbury]

Well, I for one am holding out for Silent Hunter VI: Wolves of the Indo-Pakistani War.

Malaysian subs as an add-on?

[Jimbuna]

Well, I for one am holding out for Silent Hunter VI: Wolves of the Indo-Pakistani War.

I'll wait for the addon 'The Vindaloo Offensive' :smug:

[JHuschke]

World War II was more interesting than World War I, I suppose..it's too late for World War I warfare games now, so I'd forget about it :P

[Webster]

i can see it very likely sh5 could have a mod to convert it over to ww1 in the same way they did the surface warfare ship mod and cold war sub mods for sh4.

as for it being too late, there are roman, persian and other types of war games from much older times so nothing is off the table as being a future game so you never know.

i think in this tough economy its not likely anyone will take a chance on a new game with an untested genre but i for one would buy a ww1 subsim if they made it.

[Overboard]

I think a ww1 addon would be more in order at this point and time than say a hole new game geard around ww1..Simply because "MOST" people can't relate to something that they don't see on tv or such, then seeing how most every movie that one can watch is about ww2.

In many ways poeple feel the need to relate to something and there are plenty of books and videos of ww2 on all sides about all sides be it airforce-army-navy or what have you.

My personal feelings is that "if" the dev team were to do this NOW" they would take a nose dive that they may never recover from.. And we would not want that to happen now would we, Please use alittle common sence when you ask for things that just cant be done right now.

Ive seen the things that this dev team can do and i have watched them evolve from SH3 to SH4 and i can say that there is a passion that not many have today, they like what they do and the games they make just as much if not more so than we do! and are just as into it as we are even more so, SH5 is going to be one kick a** game. :up: But please give it time.

[Task Force]

oah and JHuschke just thought id tell you that your sig needs to be smaller...:up:

500x 200 I think is the boards limit...
@everyone else....

Yep, a ww1 mod would be great...:yep: