Objective-driven - Dynamic Campaign

[Harcor]

Hi guys I have a question towards this objective Driven campaign.
The important think for me is that we get the Dynamic Campaign as in Silent Hunter 3 .

Will it be like Silent Hunter 3.???
I loved the way I coul´d go wherever i wanted. I hope they didn´t take that out, and instead they put only important missions that took place during World War 2 . What do they mean with ths objective driven campaign?

Is it like : you helped the Bismark to get out of that disaster - so the Bismark is still available after the 27.5.1941 killing other vessels like a wolf. - So i´t could be possible to even win the War???

Let us discuss this important issue.:know:

[Task Force]

Hi guys I have a question towards this objective Driven campaign.
The important think for me is that we get the Dynamic Campaign as in Silent Hunter 3 .

Will it be like Silent Hunter 3.???
I loved the way I coul´d go wherever i wanted. I hope they didn´t take that out, and instead they put only important missions that took place during World War 2 . What do they mean with ths objective driven campaign?

Is it like : you helped the Bismark to get out of that disaster - so the Bismark is still available after the 27.5.1941 killing other vessels like a wolf. - So i´t could be possible to even win the War???

Let us discuss this important issue.:know:

might be...

but anywho we will loose the war agains the allies because of the land armys, If in the campaign the eastern front goes sour and russia marched to berlin we would loose anyway.:yep:

[Sailor Steve]

The objectives were something I actually really liked in SH4. Sometimes captains were given special orders, but more often not. I don't know how adjustable those objectives were for the modders, but in Operation Monsun I've been ordered to go to different grids and patrol, then to another grid again, and then to do as I pleased until supplies were exhausted. That was an "objective-driven campaign" I could live with.

As long as it doesn't go back to the string of single mission levels that marred SH2, I can live with it.

[pythos]

Have to correct something. If the U-boats were able to be used how Doenitz had intended, and had he had more boats at his disposal. The land war would have been lost. Armies need supplies like ammo, food, fuel and so on, not to mention troops. But the U-boats would have pretty much crippled this, had they been used how Doenitz wanted.

Thank God the higher ups were stupid for the most part.

Remember what just 6 u boats did off the Us coast. Now think about Doenitz's desired 300 or more.

The war would have been entirely different.

One only needs to look at the strangle hold the Fleet boats had in the pacific. The Yamato would have been a force to be recond with had the fuel been around to keep her viable, instead being used for a one way mission the way she was. But the Fleet boats pretty much stopped the supply of fuel to the main land.

As far as the objective driven aspect. I like the idea of "saving the Bismark", and having it around in an alternate story line. It would be an interesting idea. At the same time I want free roaming like we have in SH3 and 4. No scripted crud like Sh2, that was lacking so much.

[Platapus]

As long as it doesn't go back to the string of single mission levels that marred SH2, I can live with it.

That's what killed SH2 for me. :nope:

[Powerthighs]

Remember what just 6 u boats did off the Us coast. Now think about Doenitz's desired 300 or more.

That's true in theory. But if the Germans had tried to build up their U-Boat force anywhere near that number before the war, history would have unfolded differently - that act alone would have triggered a war much earlier.

There was no realistic way to achieve those numbers.

[Sledgehammer427]

well, obviously, it would be that the "objective-driven" campaign will be a polished version of SH4's. I highly doubt they will go back to what they did in SH2, that was long ago and now things are totally different.

I'm looking forward to what they come up with. My only fear is that you are dispatched to various battles. I would like to see SH4's objective system, optimized for U-boats, like starting weather stations in the arctic. Or maybe having the choice between helping survivors of a sunken merchant, or leaving them stranded. I would like to see a difference between "reputation" and "renown." Reputation is for sailors, renown is for admirals. sink a BB, get a few hundred renown, help the sailors, earn a hundred reputation. the more reputation you earn, the easier the british may be on you, we can all agree it is easier to kill a cold-blooded captain, but if they can identify your sub, they may capture it, capture you, let you surrender, or let you await your trials at Nuremberg. your amount of british reputation would be kept secret, while your Kriegsmarine reputation will be shown. having a good mix between rep and renown allows you to get better crewmen, more renown lets you get sub upgrades, and more rep lets you get longer leave times if you so choose, maybe even let war correspondents on board :sunny:

[WilhelmSchulz.]

The objectives were something I actually really liked in SH4. Sometimes captains were given special orders, but more often not. I don't know how adjustable those objectives were for the modders, but in Operation Monsun I've been ordered to go to different grids and patrol, then to another grid again, and then to do as I pleased until supplies were exhausted. That was an "objective-driven campaign" I could live with.

As long as it doesn't go back to the string of single mission levels that marred SH2, I can live with it.

Sadley I think it has returned to that. Listen to this paragraph from an article abour SHV

There is time before each mission to scout the battlefield to get an idea of the shorelines, objectives and possible escorts of your targets. Often, the escorts do not need to be sunk to successfully complete the mission. It is up to you whether you want to only sink the target, or pick off some other ships as well.


Now what dose that sound like to you? A scripted campaign.

Here is the article.
http://www.hookedgamers.com/pc/silent_hunter_5/preview/article-551.html

[elanaiba]

Now what dose that sound like to you? A scripted campaign.


I don't know what it sounds like but don't worry its not scripted as in SH2, and its more dynamic than in sh3/4.

[Sledgehammer427]

I don't know what it sounds like but don't worry its not scripted as in SH2, and its more dynamic than in sh3/4.
and now I have taken attention to SHV!
:rotfl:
this dynamic-ness has me on the edge of my nearly broken seat!

[difool2]

Now what dose that sound like to you? A scripted campaign.l (http://www.hookedgamers.com/pc/silent_hunter_5/preview/article-551.html)

Now that's a dose of bad medicine that I really don't need. :D

Hope elanaiba is right and it isn't highly scripted...

[JU_88]

Now that's a dose of bad medicine that I really don't need. :D

Hope elanaiba is right and it isn't highly scripted...

I hope he is right ...condsidering he is on the Dev team :rotfl:
@Wilhelm seriously, they are not going back to SH2 after the last two games.

[Sailor Steve]

I don't know what it sounds like but don't worry its not scripted as in SH2, and its more dynamic than in sh3/4.
:rotfl: on me! When I read that my first thought was "Oh yeah? And you know this how?" It wasn't until then that I looked to see who wrote it.

Cheers, Dan. You, I trust.:salute:

[Safe-Keeper]

There is time before each mission to scout the battlefield to get an idea of the shorelines, objectives and possible escorts of your targets. Often, the escorts do not need to be sunk to successfully complete the mission. It is up to you whether you want to only sink the target, or pick off some other ships as well. Now what dose that sound like to you? Like single missions. We had single missions in SHIII, too. In addition to a campaign;).

I'm undecided on a dynamic campaign. I'm happy with something like SH4, where you have the "go there and stay there for 24 hours, unless we give you some dynamic, historically correct objectives along the way". I liked Falcon 4.0 Allied Force's campaign, in which you actually had a 'true' war going on, with units and structures built, moved, destroyed and repaired. Problem with the campaign, in my experience, was that the AI was fairly stupid, requiring you to put many of the units under manual control and babysit them by telling them where to go (yes, apparently in Korea and the Balkans ordinary pilots has the authority to give orders to every single fighting unit in the theatre). Which brings me to the shortcoming of such a feature - the sheer amount of work you'd have to do to make the AI behave in a believable way, and balance the campaign so that the multitudes of possible actions don't bring around undesirable outcomes (for an extreme example, I'd be pretty upset if the AI lost the war for Germany in 1943).

On balance, not being a programmer of dynamic campaigns, I have to say something like F4AF would be nice, but in no way required. The impression that I'm playing a 'true' dynamic campaign is enough for me, and this impression can be brought about by subtle changes in scripts (such as D-Day happening slightly later or whatever if your side does well), SH3 Commander-ish immersion techniques, and SH4's dynamic orders and whatnot.

:rotfl: on me! When I read that my first thought was "Oh yeah? And you know this how?" It wasn't until then that I looked to see who wrote it.I still don't know who the guy is, but "Location: Bucharest, Romania" is a quite strong hint for me :p .

[Sailor Steve]

I still don't know who the guy is, but "Location: Bucharest, Romania" is a quite strong hint for me :p .
Lead developer (or something like that). We met him in Houston.

Dan on the right, with Jimbuna.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/235/p1000148jh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[LiveGoat]

That's awesome news. :yeah:

I don't know what it sounds like but don't worry its not scripted as in SH2, and its more dynamic than in sh3/4.

[JScones]

As long as it doesn't go back to the string of single mission levels that marred SH2, I can live with it.
Oh man, I *still* remember the first "intercept the three Polish Destroyers" mission... :damn:

[andycaccia]

I hope only the devs will not make this game "campaign driven" as call of duty or other fps..
The u boat war was made of patrol grids, patrol orders...why throw realis away for a new game mode that has nothig to do with the historical data?

I liked the dynamic objectives of sh4, but only as long as they were based on a patrol campaign mode...

[gutted]

i dont think we have much to worry about. they would be dumb not to do a dynamic campaign. thats what makes the game great and gives the game replay value. without it, it's not much of a ww2 sub game imo.

only thing that got me abit worried was how it said your actions will influence the campaign and open up new areas.

what is that all about?

[gutted]

read this in another article:


"...
After the promotions people will do a better job: The sonar works more effectively, or the torpedoes do more damage, etc. "

i hope they were mistaken. torpedoes do more damage because of a promotion?

i hope nonsense like that can be toggled off.

[karamazovnew]

THe guys doing the previews are not subsimmers :haha:. I guess what they meant to say was that the Sonar guy becomes more efficient, and the WO is able to deliver more precise shots, which, in effect, do more damage.

Actually, seeing some WW2 videos, I don't understand how a ship of less than 6k tons can survive a direct hit from a torpedo. The ships I saw were lifted out of the water by the blast. Maybe they were magnetic, but the point is that torpedoes should be some mean cats (eels), not pew pew tubes.

[Pacific_Ace]

i dont think we have much to worry about. they would be dumb not to do a dynamic campaign. thats what makes the game great and gives the game replay value. without it, it's not much of a ww2 sub game imo.

only thing that got me abit worried was how it said your actions will influence the campaign and open up new areas.

what is that all about?

Im thinking you don't understand what a dynamic campaign engine is. SH3/4 do not have dynamic campaigns, nothing you do actually changes anything. You can go to the Denmark Straight on May 23 and sink every British ship present between 3 and 4 am but the Bismark will still sink later.
In SH5 that should be different, and what you do (or fail to do) will make a difference in your campaign experience. You should be feeling like you have little or no clue whats going on and what will happen next, and thats good because thats real!

[KeptinCranky]

Pacific ace hit the nail on the head, during the presentation Dan explained it with Operation Pedestal... meaning if you sink the tanker Ohio, Malta will have no aviation fuel, so their planes won't fly... this means that more supplies get through to north africa, which means Rommel might advance just a little faster and reach Alexandria, and so on... I don't know how far they'll take this, he just gave us the one example, I was impressed, :up:

This however doesn;t mean you MUST do the mission, you can always go patrol a grid or area you feel you can score some impressive tonnage. :arrgh!:

BUT he also showed us that if you sink a ship somewhere, the allied AI may very well reroute other ships away from that location, knowing there is Uboot activity, they may also route hunter killers towards you.
This was something I really liked because it definitively demolishes the concept of "Tanker Alley" for easy scoring.

There were of course situations where the "tanker alley" did occur historically but I'm confident the devs will get that right

to conclude, from what I've seen you'll have the freedom of SH3 with the added bonus of sh4 like missions that have real impact

[JU_88]

Pacific ace hit the nail on the head, during the presentation Dan explained it with Operation Pedestal... meaning if you sink the tanker Ohio, Malta will have no aviation fuel, so their planes won't fly... this means that more supplies get through to north africa, which means Rommel might advance just a little faster and reach Alexandria, and so on... I don't know how far they'll take this, he just gave us the one example, I was impressed, :up:

This however doesn;t mean you MUST do the mission, you can always go patrol a grid or area you feel you can score some impressive tonnage. :arrgh!:

BUT he also showed us that if you sink a ship somewhere, the allied AI may very well reroute other ships away from that location, knowing there is Uboot activity, they may also route hunter killers towards you.
This was something I really liked because it definitively demolishes the concept of "Tanker Alley" for easy scoring.

There were of course situations where the "tanker alley" did occur historically but I'm confident the devs will get that right

to conclude, from what I've seen you'll have the freedom of SH3 with the added bonus of sh4 like missions that have real impact


NO need for words, just this: :rock::rock::rock:
If that isn't 'dynamic' - i dont know what is :up:

[Dowly]

Thanks for the info, Cranky! :yeah:

Now the question on my mind is; Is there AI subs? And if there is, can they 'accidentally' stumble upon one of these 'special missions' and do it for you? While I like the idea of being able to affect the war, I cant help but feel abit disappointed if the case is that you, the player, are the only one who can affect the war. :hmmm:

[JU_88]

Thanks for the info, Cranky! :yeah:

Now the question on my mind is; Is there AI subs? And if there is, can they 'accidentally' stumble upon one of these 'special missions' and do it for you? While I like the idea of being able to affect the war, I cant help but feel abit disappointed if the case is that you, the player, are the only one who can affect the war. :hmmm:


German tanker [insert Ship name], Torpedoed by a British T-class submarine, in grid XX XX.
No Deisel fuel will be available for the XXth Flotilla U-boat fleet.

Spend 8 months stranded in Bergen! :rotfl2:

[Fluffysheap]

Scripted campaign = fail. Scripted campaign is one of the relatively few things that would keep me away from SH5 entirely. I've bought a couple of these games but I just don't end up playing them much. (I spent maybe four hours with Combat Flight Simulator). Whereas, SH3 and SH4, I am still playing! SH3/4 style where you have free action but the action doesn't really matter is something we are all used to and while it's not perfect, it's also fairly true to life, because one U-boat can't really change the entire outcome of the war, not even Gunther Prien. What would be really great is if your actions influenced the real world, maybe you can stop the Bismarck being sunk today, but they will eventually get it. The major battles would unfold on the historical scale and you could try to change their outcome if you wish. The closest thing to this would maybe be the old Aces of the Pacific game. Falcon 3/4 dynamic wars are OK, but they're also fictional wars. I don't think it would work for WW2. There are just toooo many what-ifs for it to be believable. Not to mention I like the German military equipment, but I don't really want the Nazis to win the war! But a good enough implementation might change my mind.

[JU_88]

hmm, if it effects minor things like the example given by Dan, i think thats cool.
Things like the Bismark are a tricky though....

[KeptinCranky]

I agree JU, and what Dowly's saying is a good point. I don't have an answer though. didn't think to ask, or if it was asked, don't recall the answer :oops:

can't win 'em all and we were all pretty tired friday evening, devs included.

[Reece]

KeptinCranky said:
Pacific ace hit the nail on the head, during the presentation Dan explained it with Operation Pedestal... meaning if you sink the tanker Ohio, Malta will have no aviation fuel, so their planes won't fly... this means that more supplies get through to north africa, which means Rommel might advance just a little faster and reach Alexandria, and so on... I don't know how far they'll take this, he just gave us the one example, I was impressed, :up:

This however doesn;t mean you MUST do the mission, you can always go patrol a grid or area you feel you can score some impressive tonnage. :arrgh!:

BUT he also showed us that if you sink a ship somewhere, the allied AI may very well reroute other ships away from that location, knowing there is Uboot activity, they may also route hunter killers towards you.
This was something I really liked because it definitively demolishes the concept of "Tanker Alley" for easy scoring.

There were of course situations where the "tanker alley" did occur historically but I'm confident the devs will get that right

to conclude, from what I've seen you'll have the freedom of SH3 with the added bonus of sh4 like missions that have real impactIf the dynamic campaign is like you describe I will be very happy, I can easily overlook the eye candy,:03: as long as the water is better than SH4!:O: Had to throw that in!!:yep:

Dowly said:
Now the question on my mind is; Is there AI subs? And if there is, can they 'accidentally' stumble upon one of these 'special missions' and do it for you? While I like the idea of being able to affect the war, I cant help but feel abit disappointed if the case is that you, the player, are the only one who can affect the war. :hmmm:Interesting question, should be an overall effect not just the player IMO, but that would be hard to script (there's that word again), a little worrying!:hmmm: I prefer SH3's campaign over SH4's, the freedom to go anywhere I like!:up:

[Snestorm]

KeptinCranky has knocked down alot of my fears Thank you, sir.
I also give thanks to those who have posted some of my biggest fears. Thanks shal you have.
The more new information that comes out the happier I am with my decision to pre-order SH5, and show some support for UBIs efforts, time, money, and relationship with this forum.
My confidence and excitement grow daily.

[JU_88]

KeptinCranky has knocked down alot of my fears Thank you, sir.
I also give thanks to those who have posted some of my biggest fears. Thanks shal you have.
The more new information that comes out the happier I am with my decision to pre-order SH5, and show some support for UBIs efforts, time, money, and relationship with this forum.
My confidence and excitement grow daily.


Haha - do I detect a hint of perssuasive bribery in that post? :haha: :up:

[Snestorm]

Haha - do I detect a hint of perssuasive bribery in that post? :haha: :up:

We've been detected, sir!
Yes, you certainly do. You have an outsstanding bridge watch, JU88.
Man the rails. Attention to port. I respectfuly salute you, sir.