A life ruined

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/28/california.missing.girl/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/28/california.missing.girl/index.html)


A woman who was kidnapped at age 11 and then spent 18 years living in her abductor's backyard began the long process of reuniting with her family on Friday.

Dugard lived for the next 18 years in a shed and other outbuildings behind her abductor's house, where she gave birth to two girls that he fathered; the girls are now aged 11 and 15, police said.

Investigators arrested Phillip Garrido, a registered sex offender, on charges of kidnapping and abusing her after police discovered Dugard on Wednesday.



It's really hard for me to imagine how this must have been for this little girl. In a news report on TV, neighbors described the man who imprisoned her as a "weirdo". No doubt. The shame is that weirdos are not scrutinized more closely.

[FIREWALL]

If that poor woman walked into that courtroom and blew him away.

She would get more time than he'll get. :nope:

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, true.

But not if I was on the jury :03:

[AVGWarhawk]

It was more than just one life ruined. Her parents after all these years living with this! Their daughter kidnapped all those years ago. Things in the news every day about kids being taken and found dead later. This is what her parents lived with.

How diabolical this was. His wife was involved as well. Talk about screwed in the head. Shame is the probation officers must and should have right to inspect convicted child molestors premises. Computer included. I guess they do not have that right to check all. Unreal this went on for years and know one said a word or noticed anything.

[SteamWake]

I find this whole story not only disturbing but hard to believe.

I understand she was abducted at age 11 but in this day of 'accessability' internet, cell phones, and on and on how in the hell did she not get word out.

Also "Lived in their back yard" were the neighbors clueless?

I heard an interview with one of the neighbors he said (paraphrasing) "I knew the guy was a weirdo and I saw them in the back yard but I had no idea they had kids there".

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=8431843&page=1 (http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=8431843&page=1)

[Platapus]

Kinda makes you wonder how many other creeps are keeping boys and girls like this. :nope:

[SteamWake]

Another neighbor, Diane Doty, told the Associated Press she could see the tents and often heard children playing in the backyard, the corner of which abuts her own backyard. She said she even suspected the children lived in the tents, but her husband said she should leave the family alone.


:o:stare::nope:

Theres lots of little things like that in the article "Heard kids playing" "Suspected they lived in the tents" "Saw kids & knew he was a perv".

Its a real tragity that could have been avoided.

[Aramike]

Kinda makes you wonder how many other creeps are keeping boys and girls like this. :nope:Way too many.

Recently there was that creep in Austria who kept his daughter in the basement for over two decades. In some Asian and South American areas this kind of stuff is almost common.

Human slavery of any kind is dispicable, but its the worst when it involves children and sex. What really stinks about the whole thing is that all we can do when we catch these perverts is lock them up.

Somehow that doesn't seem like justice to me.

[Jimbuna]

Kinda makes you wonder how many other creeps are keeping boys and girls like this. :nope:

A lot more than many people realise, I fear.

Sometimes society should find it in their hearts to thank inquisitive neighbours instead of automatically condemning them.

A phone call to the local police should always be followed through and any resistance to a brief tour of the house should be viewed with deep suspicion.

[Aramike]

A phone call to the local police should always be followed through and any resistance to a brief tour of the house should be viewed with deep suspicion. I don't agree with that at all. That could easily lead down the path of random government inspections of people's homes.

[donut]

"Human slavery of any kind is despicable, but its the worst when it involves children and sex. What really stinks about the whole thing is that all we can do when we catch these perverts is lock them up.

Somehow that doesn't seem like justice to me." Castration, is not the death penalty, might make these bastards think ! 19 years in a back yard, w/no chance of escape ??? Only wooden fence ????

[Onkel Neal]

I don't agree with that at all. That could easily lead down the path of random government inspections of people's homes.

Not random, only those who had prior convictions of child molestation and kidnapping... like this guy.

[Aramike]

Castration, is not the death penalty, might make these bastards think ! 19 years in a back yard, w/no chance of escape ??? Only wooden fence ????Now that's a punishment I could go for. :salute:

[Aramike]

Not random, only those who had prior convictions of child molestation and kidnapping... like this guy.I agree with that. Besides, I thought registered sex offenders (of a certain degree) already had to submit to home inspections, but that's probably a state-to-state thing.

I would just have a problem with blanket inspections on anyone.

[Skybird]

Since the case of Natascha Kampusch in Austria three years ago, several such cases like this new one have been revealed in several different western countries. Plus the huge systematic child abuse cases in Belgium, Ireland, England, North America, that made it through the press up and down in past years, and sometimes even involving the church, and parents letting their babies starve to death for carelessness and desinterest, even torturing them to death - many such cases in Germany.

I assume the bitter and sad truth is that child kidnapping and child abuse - random crimes as well as planned crimes and systematic and ongoing, almost business-operation-like mass crimes - just happen again - right now, and in every nation.

It's a huge market out there. - We need more social therapists - not. :dead:

When banning child porno sites on the web gets fought against by providers because they lose the income for leasing services regarding webspace used for displaying that, and even reasonable-minded users put hysteric fears of total censorship of the media over banning such sites (Germany), then something is deeply rotten in our "cultural" climate, and not just in some perverted individuals, but in our society itself, and the ruleset by which it operates. In other words we do not talk about sporadic symptoms, but vital and essential substance rotting from within.

We care so much for all and everything and are deeply alarmed over any possible eventuality that we stun ourselves and freeze in total collective paralysis. With the result of nothing effective getting done. Our ways have become far too complex. we do not master the complexity we let off the chain. So now the beast is eating up ourselves.

[Wolfehunter]

If this would ever happen to my daughter. I find the f**ker... I would slowly kill him without a doubt. And his wife would join him next.

I don't give a rats ass about the law when it comes to this kind of crap. Did the law protect her? No.

That's what I would do..

If I didn't make an example of this scumbag I failed as a father to my child.

Look at how many other people he's attacked and attempted to grab. He's a danger and a very sick person.

This is the only justice he needs.

[Skybird]

A person thinking he/she can decide while being in a state of aroused emotions, is wrong. In fact, he/she gets decided.

And not only killing them, but doing it intentionally slow and painfull, does not serve "justice" of any kind, but only serves your personal hunger for revenge.

Wanna lower yourself that much - and although not even being personally effected?

Determination in adressing the issue/the offender, is sufficient.

[OneToughHerring]

The guy is most likely also a serial killer. They've found several corpses of prostitutes near a place where he used to work. I guess that girl was lucky not to have been killed.

[Castout]

Terrible I just hope the victim has enough strength and courage to finally let of of her ordeal and traumatic experience and live a happy life. When talking this kind of thing the victim is not only suffering from physical abuses but probably gets more psychological abuses too that should not receive less attention.
This kind of ordeal could break a man's spirit or even driving her to the edge of insanity depending on how much abuse she took and how much strength she carried within her.

[Wolfehunter]

A person thinking he/she can decide while being in a state of aroused emotions, is wrong. In fact, he/she gets decided.

And not only killing them, but doing it intentionally slow and painfull, does not serve "justice" of any kind, but only serves your personal hunger for revenge.

Wanna lower yourself that much - and although not even being personally effected?

Determination in adressing the issue/the offender, is sufficient.I repect alot of what you say Skybird in many threads here. And many other members. I said IF this would happen to my daughter and she was in this situation. Its a personal attack to my family. This has nothing to do with lowering one self.

Still IF the roles turn out similar. They find her, I would act on revenge. I believe in eye for an eye.

I leave the laws to the sheep and there shepherds.

[Rilder]

I repect alot of what you say Skybird in many threads here. And many other members. I said IF this would happen to my daughter and she was in this situation. Its a personal attack to my family. This has nothing to do with lowering one self.

Still IF the roles turn out similar. They find her, I would act on revenge. I believe in eye for an eye.

I leave the laws to the sheep and there shepherds.

Agreeing with this, I will protect my family with my life and if I fail to defend my(future) daughter then I will make sure the person who did this never feels the warmth of the sunlight of have the use of his penis for the rest of his life, and if he hit her then his hands get ripped off slowly.

[Task Force]

hmm... this guy diserves midevil jailing/punishment.

aaahhh... he would enjoy the bed of spikes, the stretching table... and a cell filled with straw... and he would have to S*** in a whole...

people like this dont deserve a jail cell with bed, makeing tax payers pay for it... they need to pay for what they do...

:nope:

[SteamWake]

To me the whole thing is symptomatic of contemporary society.

There were clues aplenty but yet everyone looked the other way, chose not to invade, live and let live, and so forth.

This was a tragity that could have been averted much sooner if society was still a society.

Whats in your back yard ?

[Aramike]

A person thinking he/she can decide while being in a state of aroused emotions, is wrong. In fact, he/she gets decided.

And not only killing them, but doing it intentionally slow and painfull, does not serve "justice" of any kind, but only serves your personal hunger for revenge.

Wanna lower yourself that much - and although not even being personally effected?

Determination in adressing the issue/the offender, is sufficient.I don't buy this.

Any father I've ever met would feel the same way about their child.

In any case, there is a fatal flaw in your argument, Skybird ... you allowed for the perpetrator of the heinous crime a leeway for their emotional response, but then went on to fault the relative of the victim for their response.

To be honest, I'd hate for your idea of "its not really their fault" to become mainstream, as it would invite anyone to commit the crime under those auspices.

In the end, a human being - aroused or not - is faced with the ability to consciously make a choice. The difficulty of that choice is irrelevent when confronted with the moral standards society sets forth.

[Skybird]

Wolfhunter,

I indeed misread your posting and that you were basing on the case of "what if MY kid would...". But again I say: being determined, is one thing, being intentionally cruel is something different.


Aramike,

first part of what you replied to me is due to my misunderstanding as explained above, so I will leave that first part of your answer unadressed since i see your motivation was basing on my mislead answer to Wolfhunter - my fault. But the following - oh my...

To be honest, I'd hate for your idea of "its not really their fault" to become mainstream, as it would invite anyone to commit the crime under those auspices.
And where have I said that idea of "it is not really their fault"? i remember clearly that I spoke of "determination".

In the end, a human being - aroused or not - is faced with the ability to consciously make a choice.

And I said chosing to be determined is sufficient, while chosing to take revenge may tease aroused emotions, but is not to be mistaken with justice.

The difficulty of that choice is irrelevent when confronted with the moral standards society sets forth.

But not only wanting to kill an offender, but doing it intentionally slow and painful? Last time I checked, that was not part of neither Western or Amerian society's standards, or content of American law codes. Even legal executions are not allowed by any US law to be intentionally painful (although not rarely they are).

[Wolfehunter]

Wolfhunter,

I indeed misread your posting and that you were basing on the case of "what if MY kid would...". But again I say: being determined, is one thing, being intentionally cruel is something different.


Aramike,

first part of what you replied to me is due to my misunderstanding as explained above, so I will leave that first part of your answer unadressed since i see your motivation was basing on my mislead answer to Wolfhunter - my fault. But the following - oh my...


And where have I said that idea of "it is not really their fault"? i remember clearly that I spoke of "determination".



And I said chosing to be determined is sufficient, while chosing to take revenge may tease aroused emotions, but is not to be mistaken with justice.



But not only wanting to kill an offender, but doing it intentionally slow and painful? Last time I checked, that was not part of neither Western or Amerian society's standards, or content of American law codes. Even legal executions are not allowed by any US law to be intentionally painful (although not rarely they are).Its ok Sky. I miss read post too time to time. :yep:

Still you last line.. Again I don't care about the laws. I follow my own rules. At the moment there in sync with current system.

I have sightly different values than what the laws say we can and we can not do. I know right from wrong skybird. It requires some common sense.

People who do these kind of crimes in my eye are wild animals who feverishly can't control there innate instincts. The system failed to protect there citizens in this case. They've should have caged this animal years ago.

Thankfully our lives haven't been disrupted by chaotic events so we're nsync. :03:

[Onkel Neal]

In the end, a human being - aroused or not - is faced with the ability to consciously make a choice.

I agree with your comments, other than to say that a creature who does this to a child--kidnap, rape, toture, imprison, impregnate, brainwash--is most definitely not a human being, and does not need to be treated as such. This man was a monster in every sense of the word. He needs to be put down.

[Jimbuna]

I agree with your comments, other than to say that a creature who does this to a child--kidnap, rape, toture, imprison, impregnate, brainwash--is most definitely not a human being, and does not need to be treated as such. This man was a monster in every sense of the word. He needs to be put down.

Agreed.....he is of absolutely no use to society.

[Aramike]

I agree with your comments, other than to say that a creature who does this to a child--kidnap, rape, toture, imprison, impregnate, brainwash--is most definitely not a human being, and does not need to be treated as such. This man was a monster in every sense of the word. He needs to be put down.I agree. Well put.

[Aramike]

Skybird: I must've misread your point then. A lot of that going around here... :doh:

[Task Force]

I agree with your comments, other than to say that a creature who does this to a child--kidnap, rape, toture, imprison, impregnate, brainwash--is most definitely not a human being, and does not need to be treated as such. This man was a monster in every sense of the word. He needs to be put down.

yep, like they do with a dog with rabies....

*edit, well I guess I put that accrost the rong way...*

[Jimbuna]

yep, like they do with rabit dogs...

Nothing wrong with rabbit dogs :hmmm:


http://www.funnydog.net/images/sillyrabbit.jpg

[Skybird]

Still you last line.. Again I don't care about the laws. I follow my own rules. At the moment there in sync with current system.

I have sightly different values than what the laws say we can and we can not do. I know right from wrong skybird. It requires some common sense.



It may be like that or not, but you will be subjugated to the law, even with violence if needed, if you put ypurself above valid laws of the society you life in. Lynching justice is arbitrarily, subjective, and no state on earth can tolerate people ignoring the state's monopole on executive power without willing to fall apart in anarchy. If you will lynching justice, you become a criminal yourself, having commited a capital crime equalling murder. So see a crime against your loved ones like you want, but still you must obey the laws. You can help in changing the laws, trying to change them, but the currently valid laws you must obey.

And if you kill that guy who abused your kid, you will get life, or even a free ride on a hot chair.

I know damn well how hard this is to swallow. Long time ago, the girl I planned a life with got killed by a drunken ghost driver, I told the story before. HaveI forgiven the man? No. Do i wish him death? No. He did not do it intentionally, but carelessly at best, because he drank too much. But I am far more angry about a law system saying that being under alcoholic influence eases the responsibility you have to accept for your deeds, that you are not responsible for the ammount you drink, and most angry i am about the judge who even saw special reasons for giving a mild sentence only, which was absurd. He should have served prison time of several years, because he took a life carelessly, though not intentionally, and his driving license should have been suspended for very long time after prison. But, so said the court, that would have threatened his future perspectives and job interests. That judge must not fear that I would want to kill him. But I would love to have a 1on1 meeting with him and beating him up pretty badly, hoping that this would help him to come back to his senses again. Consider it a remedy to my aroused emotions. ;)

And before that, in the early 70s when I was still a small kid, my mom lost her sister to a drunken cardriver, too. the whole family was wiped out back then, her sister being pregnant, and freshly married. the husband got killed, too.

In both cases there was a low financial penalty, a suspended (!) prison penalty, and the driving license handed back to the drivers in less than 12 months.

Don't tell me about justice and laws not being in congruence!

Would I assist in changing laws as referred to above? Yes. Could I claim the right to kill the judge or the car driver because I put my own thoughts above the law? No, such a law is not existing.

Could I do it nevertheless? Yes - but only at the price of putting myself into conflict with the law and getting punished myself. You may call that your freedom. But it only makes you an outlaw, a lawless, and an enemy of the social order. You can claim that freedom of action, yes you certainly can - but only for this very price and all the consequences.

[Task Force]

Nothing wrong with rabbit dogs :hmmm:


http://www.funnydog.net/images/sillyrabbit.jpg

Not those kind, ment to say a dog with rabies... must have mispelled something...:damn:

[Wolfehunter]

It may be like that or not, but you will be subjugated to the law, even with violence if needed, if you put ypurself above valid laws of the society you life in.Let there be war. If I die then I die a free man.

Lynching justice is arbitrarily, subjective, and no state on earth can tolerate people ignoring the state's monopole on executive power without willing to fall apart in anarchy.This doesn't concern me. That is there problem not mine.

If you will lynching justice, you become a criminal yourself, having commited a capital crime equalling murder. So see a crime against your loved ones like you want, but still you must obey the laws. You can help in changing the laws, trying to change them, but the currently valid laws you must obey.I know this. I accept the consequence of my actions. I'm not afraid of death sky. I've died twice already in my life sky. Once being very sick when young and other a heart attack few years ago.. my wife died 3 times in the hospital for various other issue in her life time. We laugh at death. Anyhow life is too short. We make the best of it.

Helping change the law? Ya the people here tried that. I even join the new party to help get it started. Working my way up. I've learned a few things in politics.
Laws here make it difficult for new parties to be created and have access to parliament. Takes time. Unfortunately corruptions sets in because of governments devious system.. They want to keep it as is. In the end government destroyed the new party with there influence. It takes time buying people off, using media to destroy the parties true purpose.. list goes on. There not stupid and make sure we the people can't ever ruin there comfort zone.

I was young when I gave it my shot. When I saw the things going sour I knew it was over.

Obey? Not going to happen ever. I do what I feel is right not what someone else says is right. I don't go murdering or hurting or whatever. I just mind my own business. I take care of the people I love and care for.
If I am the enemy of the state? Fine by me. If they choose to waste resources in killing me.. ok.. I won't stand idle either.

Anyhow skybird you can try to justify your views all you want. You will not change me. You made your choice and I made mine. That is that. If death is there only means of fear? I've been dead and done that. :har:

The state failed from the start
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090829/world/us_crime_kidnap

Sky the only way the people will ever have real justice is from chaos. aka Anarchy..

[Onkel Neal]

Links to Sex Crimes to Follow Texas Suspects (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125167372604370775.html)
Supporters of the law, the first of its kind in the country, hope it means that suspects in those old cases will face more-vigorous prosecutions and sterner parole boards should they find themselves in trouble with the law again. Opponents say the law could rob suspects of due-process rights.

Sounds good to me.