Are you going to wait or buy it on day 1?

[sharkbit]

(Sorry, I might be addicted to polls) :O:

Based on the many responses to TDK's thread titled "This time I'll wait...", I was curious on how many will wait and how many will purchase SH5 on day one.

I'll get the voting started with "Wait".

[Task Force]

ill buy it early and see how it is...

[Lorient Bunker]

I think most people who say they'll wait will end up buying it sooner or later, so why bother wait in the first place?

[sharkbit]

I think most people who say they'll wait will end up buying it sooner or later, so why bother wait in the first place?

Read this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155041

Yeah, I'll more than likely buy it eventually, but I'm waiting for any issues to be resolved first, if any. I really hope there aren't very many problems and everything works relatively smoothly. But remember the stories about SH4. How many patches in the first year?

[FIREWALL]

Commen sense says wait. :yep:

Curiousity says buy in NOW !

Guess which side will win out ? :03: :haha:

[Raven08]

Commen sense says wait. :yep:

Curiousity says buy in NOW !

Guess which side will win out ? :03: :haha:


:up: Exactly!

[mookiemookie]

Commen sense says wait. :yep:

Curiousity says buy in NOW !

Guess which side will win out ? :03: :haha:

Exactly.

[KG_Jag]

The Force and common sense is strong in the old.

I will wait.

[jdski]

I'm doing both. I'll buy it as soon as it come out, then wait for any bugs or issues to be resolved.

[FIREWALL]

I'm doing both. I'll buy it as soon as it come out, then wait for any bugs or issues to be resolved.


DO NOT OPEN !!!:stare: http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1607/0511090804125522giftwra.png


YA RIGHT !!! :haha::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Lt commander lare]

im buying it and then wait for patches to roll in on day one it will still be playable and if there are issues im sure that we can all address them and get them fixed i think this will be a good game just like all the others ubisoft makes some great games and silent hunter 4 was one of them we just helped them to make it even better well not me but the great modders of this site which i cant name all of you the list is too long


lt commander lare

[SteamWake]

I cant wait but ultimatly Ill wait till I am able to afford it.

So Im going to wait and buy it asap :rotfl:

[FIREWALL]

If I go into my local GameStop and, see a guy walking out with the one and only copy.

All I can say is... He better be wearing a Hardhat. :DL :haha:

[Hitman]

I'd buy it on day -180 if I could :D

Got all the previous in the series, from 1 to 4, 3 & 4 were also the special version with recognition handbook and other goodies....hope they also offer one with SH5 :yeah:

[Wulfmann]

I want to thank all those who will be paying to beta test SH5 for me so that when I buy it (likely at a reduced price) it will actually be ready to play
:salute:

Wulfmann

[Wulfmann]

If I go into my local GameStop and, see a guy walking out with the one and only copy.

All I can say is... He better be wearing a Hardhat. :DL :haha:


I guess that is possible in Commifornia but in right to carry states that can be life threatening.

Would anyone blame me if someone tried to steal SH5 and I sent him to the throne of God for judgment???
I think not!!!

God will be all, :nope:"you did what, where??? Throw the lever on that piece of crap"!!! Then the Lord will turn back to his never ever CTD version of SH5. (He can get the patches before they are made:rotfl:)

Wulfmann

[Capt.Warner]

I may wait a few days before purchasing:up:

[Fincuan]

By the looks of it SH5 will be one of the few titles I anticipate enough to buy right off the bat, probably pre-order. It'd have to get some really really poor previews to change this. The two previous cases with the anticipation rating this high were OFP and Arma2, so we aren't talking about an everyday occurence here :haha:

[Iron Budokan]

Day one.

Period. :up:

[Hanomag]

DAY ONE! :up:

[JU_88]

When it comes out, SUPPORT THE FRANCHISE!
If everyone 'waits' then there will be no SH6.

[Task Force]

yep, look at this thisway...

If you dont buy till a year later your not helping the devs make the game better with support/funds...:yep:

[Nexus7]

I will wait and see the reactions in the forum first :O:

[Wintahs]

If it turns out to be great I'l buy this before I buy Mafia 2, otherwise I'll buy Mafia 2 and buy SH5 later on.

[Checkmate King 2]

I will be forced to suffer and have to wait, while reading here on the forums, how great it is!!! :damn:

I'm more than sure I won't have enough computer to be able to run it properly.

Maybe Santa can get me a new computer!!! :hmm2:

[Wild_skipper]

I am getting it on day 1, its just too tempting not 2.

[danurve]

This poll is useless without an option for pre-orders. :up:

This time I think I will want to check it out from the start.
I did a few minor mods for sh3, maybe 5 will stir up some creativity, or teamwork.

[mopedmoppel]

i think, i will buy it before comes out :cool:

[mw2000]

I will get it on day one like i did with SH3 and SH4. I don't like coming on to subsim and being jealous, looking at other players screenshots and videos of the game.

[ZiggyMon]

I'll definitly buy it on day 1. I might cry my eyes out because my computer can't properly display the über graphics and because the game has way too many bugs... But I'll buy it.

[Thomen]

Not sure if I am going to buy it on day 1. Largely depends on availability here in the area and on previews.

[Task Force]

I'll definitly buy it on day 1. I might cry my eyes out because my computer can't properly display the über graphics and because the game has way too many bugs... But I'll buy it.

well lets hope it dosent have too many bugs lol...

Ps welcome to the forums...

PPs like your sig.:rotfl:

[onelifecrisis]

I'm shocked at the results of the poll so far. I voted "wait" and fully expected to see 90% of people voting the same way, but it seems that most people here are very optimistic (or just easily pleased ;)).

[Task Force]

I'm shocked at the results of the poll so far. I voted "wait" and fully expected to see 90% of people voting the same way, but it seems that most people here are very optimistic (or just easily pleased ;)).

Well... I myself am just eager to see what sh5 will be like, its been awhile since the last uboat sim. I can just install patches anyway if it is a buggy mess...and have fun along the patch latter...:yep:

[Highbury]

I will buy it the first day it is available in the Subsim store.

[Kongo Otto]

I will buy it the first Day, then put it on my Harddrive, will take a look at it and then maybe wait for the Proper Bugfix called maybe GWX5.0. :D

[Grothesj2]

Pre-order most likely and the "collecter's version" at that if they make it worthwhile. An excellent enticement would be a type of sub playable ONLY with a collecter's version like a Type XB.

[Navarre]

I'll wait because subsims have been for some time no longer my favorite game genre and some other games that I prefer and consider to buy will also be released in Q1 2010. I wait until it gets cheaper and patched. If this attitude means that there will be no more such developments in the future ...ok I can live with that.

[Highbury]

Pre-order most likely and the "collecter's version" at that if they make it worthwhile. An excellent enticement would be a type of sub playable ONLY with a collecter's version like a Type XB.

NO. I plan on buying any special edition too but extras should be in the box, not the game. Leave that for MMOs.

[Jimbuna]

Day One and via SS if possible http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm shocked at the results of the poll so far. I voted "wait" and fully expected to see 90% of people voting the same way, but it seems that most people here are very optimistic (or just easily pleased ;)).


Why wait? The previous games had their bugs. Some more than others but these bugs get fixed with a patch or two. Modding begins. Lead, follow or get the heck out of the way. Buy it first day:D

[Webster]

well i think while most will admit they werent thrilled that it took so long to bring each game up to speed with the needed patches, i think we are all looking at the fact that they did take care of most of the issues and we ended up with very good games in the end.

what would be the point in waiting except to try to catch it on sale or maybe be lucky enough to find someone who doesnt understand how to play the game and garage sales it for next to nothing. (there is always a few of these people lol)

the only possible impact that waiting could have would be to make ubi think interest in subsims is fading and they shouldnt support the genre anymore.

companies use the revenue from sales of the game help pay for the expense of doing patches and research to fix issues with the game and limited sales can only mean limited support for the game.

we all wish games werent released untill they were fully tested and fixed but thats not a reality in this world because any company trying to do this would see a competitor release a cloned version of the same game and steal the market share for it.

its just bad buisness for any company to wait to fix working games so all games are and will always be out the door in a barely finished state as long as its playable because they cant afford the risk of the game being stolen or cloned.

[onelifecrisis]

Why wait? The previous games had their bugs. Some more than others but these bugs get fixed with a patch or two. Modding begins. Lead, follow or get the heck out of the way. Buy it first day:D

After release they have no obligation to fix bugs, and I have no tolerance for buggy software. I'm not saying they won't fix them, I'm just saying there's no guarantees.

SH3 is still, even now, a very buggy game - even with all the patches and mods! My Environment mod started out as an attempt to fix a graphical bug in the night sky; my GUI mod was borne out of sheer frustration with the design of the stock interface; and I still have to contend with buggy saved games, buggy weather, a buggy watch officer, occasional random CTDs... need I go on? Sure there are workarounds for most of the problems, but I don't want to go through the pain and hassle of learning a whole new set of workarounds for a whole new set of bugs, and I'll be damned if I'm going to fork out cash for a piece of software that I will do not consider "usable" and for which I have no guarantee that it will become "usable" in the future. I will fork out the cash if and when the game becomes usable, not before (and by "usable" I mean a lot less buggy than SH3 is now). To me that's just plain good sense. Buying the software "blindly" doesn't make sense to me.

[mookiemookie]

After release they have no obligation to fix bugs, and I have no tolerance for buggy software. I'm not saying they won't fix them, I'm just saying there's no guarantees.

SH3 is still, even now, a very buggy game - even with all the patches and mods!

I've had so much more than $50 worth of fun with SH3 in spite of all that. I'll be there on day one.

[Platapus]

I will buy it straight away, but I will still keep my SH3 loaded up just in case.

[Highbury]

Buying the software "blindly" doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't consider it blind actually, I have 4 predecessors to base my decision off of. Sure SHIII and SH4 are still buggy, even after patching, but by the time each version of SH has left my hard drive I have received MUCH more gaming value then the purchase price. I have no reason to believe I won't from SH5.

If, by the time SH5 has had it's day, I don't feel I got my $50 worth then I will step back on a "next one" if there is such a thing. So far I have not felt ripped off with a SH game.

[skwasjer]

Buggy software eh??? Yet S3D's alpha and beta releases (some 20 different releases) were downloaded about 20000 times in just over one year, and has been very popular around here. But it's by no means bug free... So surely, this can't be an argument?

And what about all the mods you download... Bug free??? You think?

Not to mention the dozens of other 'half baked' tools everybody downloads and uses, but then it crashes, you uninstall, doesn't uninstall completely, slows down your computer, oh well, next tool, rinse... repeat...

I agree that software companies should not release buggy software on purpose, and that they should have a good QA system in place, yet you can't just keep on developing to find every single god damn bug, because you won't find them. As soon as you release it, people will still find critical bugs...

I find it poor argument to just wait for patches and a bargain sale of 10$ when this is a game you play for hundreds of hours in the long run. You're just being cheap then... :shifty:

PS: look at me, I bought SH4 on day one (pre-order actually), spent over 1000 hours working on a free program, and only played the game for about 4 weeks total, yet I still bought the collectors ed. and it was worth every penny...

[Reece]

A definite pre-order for me, I will continue to support the Silent Hunter series good or bad!!:yeah:

[Bosje]

after hearing speculations about things like scripted campaign and after watching the trailer which looked awfully arcade.... i'm not holding my breath

of course, there's always the chance I have a shiny new rig and some cash to spare and then i'll probably end up buying it anyway

[John Channing]

I want to thank all those who will be paying to beta test SH5 for me so that when I buy it (likely at a reduced price) it will actually be ready to play
:salute:

Wulfmann


You should also thank them (us) for keeping the genre alive so that you will even have a game that you can actually play.

A few of us were playing SHIV months before the release and it was loads of fun. :03:

JCC

[onelifecrisis]

Buggy software eh??? Yet S3D's alpha and beta releases (some 20 different releases) were downloaded about 20000 times in just over one year, and has been very popular around here. But it's by no means bug free... So surely, this can't be an argument?

And what about all the mods you download... Bug free??? You think?

Not to mention the dozens of other 'half baked' tools everybody downloads and uses, but then it crashes, you uninstall, doesn't uninstall completely, slows down your computer, oh well, next tool, rinse... repeat...

I agree that software companies should not release buggy software on purpose, and that they should have a good QA system in place, yet you can't just keep on developing to find every single god damn bug, because you won't find them. As soon as you release it, people will still find critical bugs...

I find it poor argument to just wait for patches and a bargain sale of 10$ when this is a game you play for hundreds of hours in the long run. You're just being cheap then... :shifty:

PS: look at me, I bought SH4 on day one (pre-order actually), spent over 1000 hours working on a free program, and only played the game for about 4 weeks total, yet I still bought the collectors ed. and it was worth every penny...

I don't know if you were replying to me specifically, but to give my personal answers to your points...

1) S3D is free. Also, I personally have never experienced a bug in it (probably because I've only done simple things with it).

2) Mods are also free, and I don't use mods that seem to cause more bugs than they fix.

3) I am not waiting for SH5 to be $10, I'm waiting for it to be bug-free (or close enough for my tastes). At that point I'd happily pay the full price for it, a year (or whatever) after it's release. Of course by that time the price will be much lower but my point is that the price isn't the issue for me; I'm not being "cheap" I just want it to work.

[Webster]

based on my own personal observations of peoples buying traits with all games in general, the way it looks to me how people buy them is as follows:

40% buy it at full price when its released as soon as they can get it

40% will buy it at the first reduced price they can find it at reguardless of weather that means waiting weeks or months to get it.

10% will buy it only on sale at a good discount from the original price and only after the first game patch has been released

the last 5% are true cheapskates who will never pay full price for any game so they will wait to find it in the bargin bin or not buy it at all.

[Task Force]

Hmm... after alittle thinking... I think ill hold out to see if it is gonna be a flop or not.

[FIREWALL]

I've found thru lifes experiences that, some people are impossible to satisfy.

As far as waiting until a possible fix for something I don't even know is broken. Life's to short to deprive myself.

I'm in my mid 40's and the day I can't spend $50.00 for a game I call a hobby,I'll know I did something wrong with my life. :haha:

[skwasjer]

I don't know if you were replying to me specifically, but to give my personal answers to your points...

1) S3D is free. Also, I personally have never experienced a bug in it (probably because I've only done simple things with it).

2) Mods are also free, and I don't use mods that seem to cause more bugs than they fix.

3) I am not waiting for SH5 to be $10, I'm waiting for it to be bug-free (or close enough for my tastes). At that point I'd happily pay the full price for it, a year (or whatever) after it's release. Of course by that time the price will be much lower but my point is that the price isn't the issue for me; I'm not being "cheap" I just want it to work.
It wasn't personally directed ;)

Bugfree software is an utopia. I understand why 'we' as customers want a bugfree product but this simply will never happen. The point is, the budgets that are available for this type of game will only diminish or be scraped completely if all of us think this way... If you (generalizing again) are a sim-diehard, you should buy it asap even if you don't wish to play it immediately. I don't even consider myself a diehard because I will just play the game with all noob-settings and be done with it after one month, but I still enjoy the type of game and want to play the newest version again 2 years from now...

Basic economics, no demand, no offer. I won't hold it against you if you don't, but I'm just whispering in your ear: 'BUY IT!' :O:

Oh and WEBSTER, don't forget torrents in your figures... i'd say that's more than 5%.

[mcf1]

I'll buy it maybe a few weeks after it's release, because first I'm gonna need to buy a new computer,mine is outdated (I still have a radeon 9600 :oops:) and IMO it's not worth uprading.
I was planning to buy one in the coming weeks but know I'll wait until SH5
is out, just to make sure that the new pc can run SH5 perfectly.

[Ragtag]

I'm buying on release. I want to support the franchise and i don't have the willpower to wait. Good combat simulation games are rare so i support where ever i can. And despite bugs and problems with SH3 and SH4, i have still had a blast with the games with or without mods and communityfixes.

[Contact]

It wasn't personally directed ;)

Bugfree software is an utopia. I understand why 'we' as customers want a bugfree product but this simply will never happen. The point is, the budgets that are available for this type of game will only diminish or be scraped completely if all of us think this way... If you (generalizing again) are a sim-diehard, you should buy it asap even if you don't wish to play it immediately. I don't even consider myself a diehard because I will just play the game with all noob-settings and be done with it after one month, but I still enjoy the type of game and want to play the newest version again 2 years from now...

Basic economics, no demand, no offer. I won't hold it against you if you don't, but I'm just whispering in your ear: 'BUY IT!' :O:

Oh and WEBSTER, don't forget torrents in your figures... i'd say that's more than 5%.

That is because you play noob-settings game you don't actually care about bugs. Or they - BUGS - don't disturb you as they are disturbing a hardcore gamer to feel the top notch joy of this simulation.

I have a fair bet here. All noobs go buy it the first day - show the support the very first day, be exemplary (save the world if you must) and we all who decided to wait will wait for a decent final release patch then buy it. I don;t want to buy a game and leave it on a shelf for half a year waiting for all these patches to show up. That would probably tease me to death. So I will buy it when it's going to reach it's top quality in stability, glitches-free policy and the rest of damn bugs that will probably be and will shorten my damn life with every CTD that might happen. :arrgh!:

[Nexus7]

What should i vote if I'm going to buy it on day 30 ? :haha:

[Wulfmann]

You should also thank them (us) for keeping the genre alive so that you will even have a game that you can actually play.
A few of us were playing SHIV months before the release and it was loads of fun. :03: JCC

I do thanks you but since I can't describe SH4 as fun even after the patches and mods (Not bad but just weak compared to GWX3, IMO) I must assume challenge is not as important to your idea of fun.

For those wrongly trying to make this about saving a few bucks as if we are not doing our share of keeping the venue alive, well try that on others not me. :down:
I would pay double the original price if it came complete, no patch needed.
Telling me (us) we are some how less in our desire to support SH series because we won't purchase a broken game denotes a desire for self induced pain that I (and others) simply do not share.
I want to load the game and do SH5.
If they want beta testers they should ask for them not expect us to pay them to be those testers.

This is not about money. It is about a consistent pattern of unfinished programs being offered as finished.
I am simply asking them to release them when they are done and not sooner.
The fact they choose to release them unfinished is justification for those of us wanting to support SH to wait until it is reasonably playable.

Wulfmann

[skwasjer]

lol, touchy...

If you want a true hardcore subsim, but not paying up, then it will never happen. The more you support the game, the better the chance you will eventually. Your choice...

You can say you would pay double but from a marketing point of view, Ubi has clearly no wish to make the price twice as high. The risk will grow, and the revenue likely diminish with even less people paying up. So why not pay up half now, and another half in a year with the next expansion ;) Same deal... and they have the cashflow to keep going...

Additionally, I can't name ANY software product that does not have a bug (I'm pretty sure NASA's software has bugs too ;)), yet we all work daily with computers, mobiles, tv, consoles, cars, kitchen appliances, electriticy, etc, and alot of times when something fails, if it's not human error, it's a hardware or software issue... (which actually also is human error :D) But we still buy, buy, buy... But NOOOO, we won't buy SH5! :O:

Anyway, don't worry about it, don't lose sleep over it, I won't. I left my 2c here and am surely not out on a vendetta against non-buyers (or delayers if you will). I just encourage the developers, because it's not fun for them to read this kind of stuff... So keep it up guys :up:

PS: Contact, just because I play at noob settings doesn't mean I don't care about bugs. You know I'm a developer, right??? If anybody cares it would be me...

[FIREWALL]

SH4 was playable from Day 1.

[Contact]

lol, touchy...

If you want a true hardcore subsim, but not paying up, then it will never happen. The more you support the game, the better the chance you will eventually. Your choice...

You can say you would pay double but from a marketing point of view, Ubi has clearly no wish to make the price twice as high. The risk will grow, and the revenue likely diminish with even less people paying up. So why not pay up half now, and another half in a year with the next expansion ;) Same deal... and they have the cashflow to keep going...

Additionally, I can't name ANY software product that does not have a bug (I'm pretty sure NASA's software has bugs too ;)), yet we all work daily with computers, mobiles, tv, consoles, cars, kitchen appliances, electriticy, etc, and alot of times when something fails, if it's not human error, it's a hardware or software issue... (which actually also is human error :D) But we still buy, buy, buy... But NOOOO, we won't buy SH5! :O:

Anyway, don't worry about it, don't lose sleep over it, I won't. I left my 2c here and am surely not out on a vendetta against non-buyers (or delayers if you will). I just encourage the developers, because it's not fun for them to read this kind of stuff... So keep it up guys :up:

PS: Contact, just because I play at noob settings doesn't mean I don't care about bugs. You know I'm a developer, right??? If anybody cares it would be me...

When it will be fully finished I will pay the full prize for it. I got patience so I'll keep monitoring the development and later patches. It's all about choices and I think I explained very well how things work in my house. End of discussion. :up:

[Task Force]

SH4 was playable from Day 1.

To a degree... lol Better not need to level out.:rotfl:

[henriksultan]

Getting it on day 1 :yeah:

[Arclight]

To a degree... lol Better not need to level out.:rotfl:
I think I saw it best described as "quick return to desktop" feature. :haha:

[onelifecrisis]

Additionally, I can't name ANY software product that does not have a bug (I'm pretty sure NASA's software has bugs too ;)), yet we all work daily with computers, mobiles, tv, consoles, cars, kitchen appliances, electriticy, etc, and alot of times when something fails, if it's not human error, it's a hardware or software issue... (which actually also is human error :D) But we still buy, buy, buy... But NOOOO, we won't buy SH5! :O:

I can see the sense in your 'support the game' position, but I think your POV regarding bugs is much too black-and-white. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that all software has some bugs (as you claim); fine, but that doesn't mean all users will run into those bugs, or that they will do so on a regular basis. My use of S3D is a good example: I've not seen any of its bugs, so from my POV it's bug-free! Even if I opened up S3D right now and found a bug, it would be one bug in months and months of use which would mean it still has a more than acceptable level of functionality IMO. Different bits of software have different levels of "buggyness" and different users have different levels of tolerance. It's shades of gray, not black and white.

I buy lots of software which may (for all I know) have bugs, but as long as it works most of the time I'm happy. I couldn't play SH3 at all until 2 years after I bought it (before that it would CTD within 60 seconds of launching, every time) and I'm not making the same mistake with SH5, and I don't think that makes me "cheap" ;). I support the game, but to a limit!

[John Channing]

I do thanks you

*snip tiresome rant*

Wulfmann

You're welcome!

:DL

JCC

[FIREWALL]

I think I saw it best described as "quick return to desktop" feature. :haha:

I've never had it CTD yet. Since Day 1. :yep:

[Pacific_Ace]

I will be watching and waiting. SH4 made me gun shy when it came to Ubi. I have some programming in my background and I understand that some bugs will slip through. A few bugs dont bother me. What bothers me greatly about SH4 are what I would term 'design errors' There are a number of them but I give my top 3 for example:
#1 The 'deckwatch gets killed unless moved inside' issue. How do you screw this up? Even worse, how do you care so little about your craft that you willingly send a game out like this?
#2 Crappy manual. Sh4 manual was 104 pages (I think it was) of fluffy garbage useful to no one over the age 10 having more than 3 brain cells to rub together. I want real DOCUMENTATION! Publish it online somewhere to save the trees and the money, but there had better be a decent manual associated with SH5.
#3 Truk. No Japanese base at Truk in game. How and why does the biggest Jap base outside of the home islands (dubbed Gibralter of the Pacific) not get represented?

Modability: Falls under the 'damn good idea' category and I will be looking for that in SH5.

[skwasjer]

No problem OLC, I see what you mean. My reply would be though, how will you know if the new software is buggy (or as buggy as SH3) if you don't try it... ;) For all we know, they build the best and most stable release ever. And even if people experience bugs and post them, by your argument, how would you know they would affect your pc, or your own tolerance level? Something to ponder about... :cool:

I can see the sense in your 'support the game' position, but I think your POV regarding bugs is much too black-and-white. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that all software has some bugs (as you claim); fine, but that doesn't mean all users will run into those bugs, or that they will do so on a regular basis. My use of S3D is a good example: I've not seen any of its bugs, so from my POV it's bug-free! Even if I opened up S3D right now and found a bug, it would be one bug in months and months of use which would mean it still has a more than acceptable level of functionality IMO. Different bits of software have different levels of "buggyness" and different users have different levels of tolerance. It's shades of gray, not black and white.

I buy lots of software which may (for all I know) have bugs, but as long as it works most of the time I'm happy. I couldn't play SH3 at all until 2 years after I bought it (before that it would CTD within 60 seconds of launching, every time) and I'm not making the same mistake with SH5, and I don't think that makes me "cheap" ;). I support the game, but to a limit!

[Elder-Pirate]

I'm going to buy SHV on the day after the day before it hits the shelves.




Signed..........Confused. :ahoy:

[momo55]

I'm buying on release and support the game and dev's . I wanna see , smell , feel ..taste :DL the vanilla out of the box .

The fun and joy then , starts here , on this forum , when skilled modders and subsim members come up with ideas and the mods rollercoaster starts rolling.
My English writing and knowledge ain't good enough to join in , but i like the reading and the houres and houres spend here and playing the game , and seeing it getting better with every mod release (small and big) makes my 50€ and buying it on day 1 worthfull for me . Still play and enjoy SH3+GWX and SH4 + OM and RFB and bought them also on day 1.

I'll put the thumbnail on Steven's "Happy" face :D at this moment and hope it stays there when SH V will be released .

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2199/stevensegal.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

I'm going to buy SHV on the day after the day before it hits the shelves.
Balz will be proud of you.:sunny:

[aanker]

I only voted to wait because the PTO is my interest. I bought SH4 twice on or about day #1; one was and still is in the box, the 2nd was D2D and is the one I play (a lot).

I'll give Neal the money to support SUBSIM while I wait to purchase the pacific theatre SH5 US boat add-on!

Happy Hunting!

Art

[mookiemookie]

I only voted to wait because the PTO is my interest. I bought SH4 twice on or about day #1; one was and still is in the box, the 2nd was D2D and is the one I play (a lot).

I'll give Neal the money to support SUBSIM while I wait to purchase the pacific theatre SH5 US boat add-on!

Happy Hunting!

Art

There may not be an add-on without strong first week sales.

[EgoApocalypse]

On the day defo.....Well at least as close to release date as possible.

[Will-Rommel]

I'll pre-order it.

The subsim community is something unique amongst the gaming universe and it is those new titles releases that make it stick together and exist.

I usually play simulations for like 2-3 months then take a pause and move to something else, but each time i came back here the forum was still busy and new mods were awaiting my comeback.

Yes, it's easily worth 50$ to stay onboard such a gentlemens cruise. :sunny:

[PL_Andrev]

50$? hmmm...
:hmmm:
I hope that in this time dollar will be very cheap... and decide after playable demo...

[Jimbuna]

I'll pre-order it.

The subsim community is something unique amongst the gaming universe and it is those new titles releases that make it stick together and exist.



Rgr that http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Shiplord]

50$? hmmm...
and decide after playable demo...
We can rent here in Germany nearly all the new games in video stores and test them as full versions if there are no demos of games available.

I did that with SH4 and many other games and I will do so with SH5. I rent it for two days (games are often available for rent one or two days before the store release:DL) and test it myself whether it convince me, whether it works with my hardware that time, whether it has bugs I can live with until a patch is released, ..., before I make a purchase decision. I am not that die-hard subsimmer, so I can live also without SH5.

[Armistead]

I'll buy it as soon as I find it. $50 bucks is a good meal. I look at the hundreds of hours of enjoyment SH4 gave me and that's a good return for the dollar.

Hopefully it will be playable from day one. If not, no biggy, I'll wait for the patch, pray for mods and play SH4 until they get it working.

[maerean_m]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

[ddrgn]

I like to follow this series along and see the progress made by the modders and watch the game grow from fair to great.

How will you know how good the game got without knowing how bad it was? ;]

[Highbury]

I'll give Neal the money to support SUBSIM while I wait to purchase the pacific theatre SH5 US boat add-on!

Why do people assume we will get a Pacific Add-on? With SH4 did we get an Atlantic add-on? no.. we got U-Boats in the game's theater.. PTO.

Following that trend would it not make more sense that a possible Fleet Boat add on for an Atlantic game would be for the up-til-now untouched Atlantic Fleet Boat ops.... makes much more sense to me.

[Arclight]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents
I must say that's a confusing and slightly worrying statement, considering the source. :-?

Are you saying more people should support it, or that it just isn't worth supporting? :06:

[Nexus7]

100 buy(votes) * 50$/buy = 5'000 $

Ubi total sales: 1'000'000'000 $ / year

our contribution: 5'000 / 1'000'000'000 *100 = 0.0005 % :o :haha:

[karamazovnew]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

The poll only shows that 45 people will not buy the game on day one. Once SH5 gets more than 9.0 on game sites like GameSpot and is promoted both as serious face arcadeish sim !!!AND!!! as a super uber realistic management/sub/war sim, any sim/ww2/nazi/sea enthuziast will buy (or pirate) the game. Any pirated copies will turn to buys if the hard box contains any goodie and a nice manual, the game rocks, and if you reserve multiplayer to box serial numbers and make an ability to upload campaign status on the UBI server (for leader charts). I bet you that in an year 2010 which will also see the new IL2 (not the Birds of Pray arcade krap) SH5 will sell like hot bread as long as you, the dev team, manage rise to expectations :rock:. So chin up

Why do I say this things? Because serious PC gamers are more than tired of crap games. We're also tired of shooting germans and destroying the Reichstag in any game that's even remotely historic. Anything new and serious is bound to provoke interest. And sea surfing, torpedo shooting, ship sinking, DC dodging, captain feeling, crew obeying, german voice sim is bound to provoke interest on many levels.

[Jimbuna]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

That is quite concerning, especially if it is indicative of all sub simmers.

Let us hope that is not the case :hmmm:

[Navarre]

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.


"People can't embrace change unless they feel safe. ... A lack of safety makes people risk-averse." (from the novel "The Deadline")

The poll tells very clearly, that 28% of the voters not longer want to be abused as a free beta testers, they are tired of Ubisoft's unfinished game and QA policy. The voting of these user are no criticism about the developers but criticism about the Ubisoft management and how they bring games to the market.

Do not buy a game or to buy later when it was patched to an acceptable level, happens to be the only way for a gamer today to signalize that they are no longer accepted the the marketing course of the publishers. These people are aware that this behavior may cause an abortion of a game franchise but they are not willing to continue to pay for a game just to artificially keep the franchise alive for a product which no longer comes on the market with the quality it ought to have.

[mookiemookie]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

For all of Ubi's talk about taking QA more seriously, it will be quite telling to see what kind of condition they allow you guys to release SH5 in. Let's hope they allow you the time you need to put a product out that you can be proud of.

[tonschk]

at once

[aanker]

Originally Posted by aanker
I'll give Neal the money to support SUBSIM while I wait to purchase the pacific theatre SH5 US boat add-on!

Why do people assume we will get a Pacific Add-on? With SH4 did we get an Atlantic add-on? no.. we got U-Boats in the game's theater.. PTO.

Following that trend would it not make more sense that a possible Fleet Boat add on for an Atlantic game would be for the up-til-now untouched Atlantic Fleet Boat ops.... makes much more sense to me.

With the Sh4MissionEditor.exe I can make my own shipping layers in the Atlantic & Med, place ports almost anywhere, and patrol (my US Fleet Boat) wherever I want. I'm pretty sure layers could be added for the SH4 U-Boats anywhere too.

When I saw the Gato on a world tour post and took my own world tour my eyes were opened to the almost limitless possibilities presented in SH4. The major cities are already there. With the Panama Canal mod and after adding some eye candy I can assume command of say, U.S.S. Gunnel (SS-253) at Groton, CT, sail East and into the Med, participate in operation Torch, then sail through the Panama Canal and into the Pacific to patrol out of Pearl. (for example)

Here's hoping that the SH5 will be that easy to work with. If I read that I can command a US Fleet boat and have a mission editor like this one, I'm in.

Happy Hunting!

Art

[martes86]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

Doom talk... that can't be good.

[Carotio]

Some people choose to see the glas half empty and some choose to see the glas half full. IMHO the figures of the poll is not a total prediction of what will happen when the game is released or on the route to that date.
168 members have voted, out of how many subsim members?

Sofar we have seen a trailer video of the game and then not so much more but a few images. Nobody can make a qualified opinion upon that and will tend to base their opinion on past releases (SH3 and/or SH4).
Yes, some will never purchase it because it's ATO and some will wait, because of previous dissapointments. However, I doubt 28% of the potential customers will wait, probably more like 10-15%...

I say no need to look on the dark side. I'm sure the Nay percentage will be much lower the closer we get to the release date provided good official info is provided like more images, trailers and written info about content, requirements etc etc.

And that is my 2 ører... (2/100 dkk) :03:

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

[JU_88]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

Whats with all the doom and gloom?
on the bright side 74% voted they will buy it on release / pre order. its not that bad at all, anyway that is less than 200 votes in total (a pretty insignifficant number TBH)

I think what maerean_m is saying (and makes a fair point), is that if you/we neglect SH5 on its release, it only makes the situation worse for future titles in the franchise.... Bigger sales = bigger budget & development time, not exactly rocket science.

To quote Rage against the Machine....
"What You reap is what you sew!"

We have to ask our selves what is better: and incomplete game or no game at all?
if you like the SH franchise as a whole, then support it by buying SH5 around release, and if you dont like it, why are you even reading these forums? :06:

[karamazovnew]

Plus, who's to say for sure that SH5 will be buggy? I'd like to see the people that voted Nay wait for 6 months drooling while we sink 1000 fleets in a perfect game. "Come on dude, buy it, it's great.... No... I voted Nay, I can't buy it for 4 more months, 3 days, 20 minutes and 5, no, 3 seconds. But I'm not impatient :doh: :damn:. I'm calm, really :woot::damn:".

But that won't happen ofc, they'll buy it just the same as us, only a few days later. But saying that a game such as this is too expensive at 60 euros and you can't afford it means you should check with a doctor :doh:. Most games now last less than one SH3 Patrol. Some last even less than a single successful convoy "attack and get the fudge out". If your PC can handle it, in terms of entertainment per buck payed, SH is the best deal you can have (:hmmm: although Guitar Hero 3 wasn't too far behind, for me :oops:).

[AVGWarhawk]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

I will buy two copies on day one. :03: BTW, everyone says it is selling for $50.00. It is not selling for $50.00. The game is selling for $49.99. :O:

[Javelin]

I don't think I will purchase SH5. I'm tired of WW2 sub simulations. I wish they had opted for a modern day sub sim. A up to date remake of Red Strom Rising would have been a good choice.

[Dowly]

Buy it on release, me thinks. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

I will buy two copies on day one. :03: BTW, everyone says it is selling for $50.00. It is not selling for $50.00. The game is selling for $49.99. :O:

The beta alone is worth more than that :o

[Jimbuna]

Buy it on release, me thinks. :hmmm:

ROFLMAO :rotfl:

Funniest thing I've read here for quite a while :DL

[tater]

I'd pay $100, or whatever for the right PTO sim.

Me buying SH5 entirely depends on what units I can play. I'll happily sink u-boats but I have zero desire to roleplay being IN one.

[karamazovnew]

Tater, I know your an American and Pacific Theater guru. I was the opposite when SH4 appeared. "WTF?! Play with the americans? No freakin way! I like japs, heck I'm watching animes right now! Shichinin no Samurai and Hotaru No Haka are my fav movies". But then I watched Run Silent Run Deep and suddenly I became interested in fleet boats.

So, just after the first reviews of SH5 come in and all of us stop posting because we can't stop playing, maybe you should watch Das Boot again and give the Jerries Tub VII a go :up:.

[Rockin Robbins]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents

Holy Cow, sir. First of all, you're taking a poorly constructed poll, which only gives the two wildest extremes of behavior as possibilities. Then you're discounting the fact that a very small percentage of readers are even going to respond to the poll who will buy the game.

Finally you're ignoring the stampede behavior of the reluctant herd when the word gets out that SH5 is a fantastic game. If SH5 is a great game that 28% will vanish like an ice cube on a red hot griddle.

There's only one honest poll, and that's the honest poll of the marketplace, where people vote with their money. If SH5 is going to be a great sub simulator, the poll will take care of itself. If it is not, then the poll of the marketplace will be accurate feedback and the 28% might become 50% overnight. Either way, the poll above isn't worth the time to worry about.

I hope SH5 is fabulous and makes you devs rich.

[tater]

Tater, I know your an American and Pacific Theater guru. I was the opposite when SH4 appeared. "WTF?! Play with the americans? No freakin way! I like japs, heck I'm watching animes right now! Shichinin no Samurai and Hotaru No Haka are my fav movies". But then I watched Run Silent Run Deep and suddenly I became interested in fleet boats.

So, just after the first reviews of SH5 come in and all of us stop posting because we can't stop playing, maybe you should watch Das Boot again and give the Jerries Tub VII a go :up:.

I want the devs to succeed, but that won't happen in my case. I have no desire to roleplay a German sub. The more immersive it is, the less desire I have to fight for that side. I don't pretend to be a large segment of the market. I own Il-2, and I've never flown the LW, not once, not one plane. Before that, ww2ol (from closed beta days). Never spawned German, no plans to, ever. Warbirds? Ditto. AirWarrior before that? I flew a Bf-109 during a scenario once. I felt dirty, never again :)

I'll preorder SH5 if I can SINK u-boats, however.

[TDK1044]

I think the focus of SHV is to finally immerse the player as the Captain of a U Boat to a greater degree than ever before. Any control of surface assets will be very much secondary in my view.

[ichso]

I hope SH5 is fabulous and makes you devs rich.

I don't know too much about the software industry but I assume that the _devs_ would get only what they are paid per hour cummulated over the time they spent on that project. That's what I think they're gonna get for this title.
While on the other hand the publisher gets paid via sold copies.

But I'm not all sure about that, it just makes more sense to me that way ^^.

EDIT: Btw, I never buy games on day one. I wait for many reviews, especially from users to make up my mind about the game before I spend money on it.

[Seeadler]

I hope SH5 is fabulous and makes you devs rich.
As an employee of Ubisoft, I don't believe :hmmm:

I don't know the current salary levels of Ubisoft employee's in Romania, but two years ago the mobile phone manufacturer Nokia closed the doors of the factory here in Germany and moved to Romania. The reason they told us are that Romanian employees, especially highly qualified technicians, would work for 1/10 of the Western European labor costs.

[karamazovnew]

Ahem, let's not remind the devs how much they'd be payed in other countries. They might emigrate and leave sh5 unfinished :haha:

[JU_88]

I want the devs to succeed, but that won't happen in my case. I have no desire to roleplay a German sub. The more immersive it is, the less desire I have to fight for that side. I don't pretend to be a large segment of the market. I own Il-2, and I've never flown the LW, not once, not one plane. Before that, ww2ol (from closed beta days). Never spawned German, no plans to, ever. Warbirds? Ditto. AirWarrior before that? I flew a Bf-109 during a scenario once. I felt dirty, never again :)

I'll preorder SH5 if I can SINK u-boats, however.


IMHO You are mixing politics with gaming and you are letting it ruin you experience.
Its just a game, a bunch of polygons representing something real.

Now, I could argue aginst this fact - if game was depicting scenes that I deemed to be in TRULEY poor taste.

But in this case we are mearly talking about the flags and emblems that are displayed on your player unit and those which you destroy... not offensive to me what so ever.
Cotext is everything....

So I personally (in the case of silent hunter) I can respect your feelings - but I cannot understand such an extreme level of sensitivity being applied to this game.

in reality i hate nazis too. but Silent hunter is not reality.

Im not saying im right and your wrong or anything like that.....just giving my 5 cents that all..

[tater]

As I said, I realize I am not a large segment of the market, and I can appreciate your POV.

I'll try u-boats when there is a ww1 game out :)

[JU_88]

As I said, I realize I am not a large segment of the market, and I can appreciate your POV.

I'll try u-boats when there is a ww1 game out :)


fair enuff mate :salute:

[AVGWarhawk]

The beta alone is worth more than that :o


If you compare dollars to donuts the years of enjoyment we lunatics get out of the SH series I would gladly pay more that the $49.99. Just don't tell Dan that. :o

[ReallyDedPoet]

If you compare dollars to donuts the years of enjoyment we lunatics get out of the SH series I would gladly pay more that the $49.99.

:yep:

But you also have to look at the hidden costs in keeping up with the
times :oops::oops:

Video cards, ram, other upgrades, etc., etc.

It's all good though :DL:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

:yep:

But you also have to look at the hidden costs in keeping up with the
times :oops::oops:

Video cards, ram, other upgrades, etc., etc.

It's all good though :DL:up:

Thats a given....like after a drinking binge where you go to the local burger joint because you have the munchies. In doing so you scarf down $35.00 worth of burger and fries. :doh: Look at the other side, no going out to drink you money away at the bar. The game assists in becoming totally disconnect to the real world thus saving mounds of cash that you would have otherwised spent if you were anywhere remotely close to normal. :har: So, we are all basically saving a crap load of money.

[Captain von Keldunk]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.,:hmmm:
So it is 28% less money for development:wah:
The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only):timeout:
Romanian employees, especially highly qualified technicians, would work for 1/10 of the Western European labor costs:hmmm:
I am glad that SH5 is developed in Romania:salute::yeah::up:

[karamazovnew]

To Captain von Keldunk
Sir, as a highly qualified romanian technician, I expect more respect from a member of the armed forces, especially a captain such as yourself. I take offense to your previous comment and would like to meet you tomorrow noon in Bucharest, in a pub at your convenience for a duel to the floor in beer drinking. The duel will be fought with any weapon that is properly cooled and served in big glasses.

I expect nothing else than a logical excuse to this silly comment, in which case, I will drink myself to the floor alone.

Your's truly.. etc etc :salute:

[Seeadler]

Here's a example of how game developer's cost estimate may be rewarded. The calculation is not based on any specific project, it's a simplified example from a small german dev-studio.

But usually there are these two models:
- Adv. against royalties
and
- pofit share model

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/91/3063991/1680_3664333931633065.jpg

[Captain von Keldunk]

To Captain von Keldunk
Sir, as a highly qualified romanian technician, I expect more respect from a member of the armed forces, especially a captain such as yourself. I take offense to your previous comment and would like to meet you tomorrow noon in Bucharest, in a pub at your convenience for a duel to the floor in beer drinking. The duel will be fought with any weapon that is properly cooled and served in big glasses.

I expect nothing else than a logical excuse to this silly comment, in which case, I will drink myself to the floor alone.

Your's truly.. etc etc :salute:
Today I drank half a litre of Lapin Kulta beer.:woot: What do you drink in Bucharest:hmmm:
"I don't know the current salary levels of Ubisoft employee's in Romania, but two years ago the mobile phone manufacturer Nokia closed the doors of the factory here in Germany and moved to Romania":hmmm:
Nokia comes from same country as Lapin Kulta.:yeah:

[Wilcke]

Seeadler, those are tough numbers! I am going to put my money where my mouth is and pick up at least 4 of these just like I did with SH4. From what one of devs is posting on another thread about the innards, SH5 will be a modders dream come true.

[THE_MASK]

At this moment, the poll says that 28% of you will wait 6 months to buy the game and pay almost nothing to Ubisoft for Silent Hunter 5.

Which Ubisoft deserves after the stunt it pulled with Silent Hunter 4.

The game will only barely pay for the development costs (if only) and if Ubisoft decides the make Silent Hunter 6, it will be of the same quality.

Just my 2 cents Early days yet and from the small amount of info already supplied by yourself , lots of people are very excited about SH5 and cannot wait to get it .

[Rockin Robbins]

Part of the resistance is a business model which does a grave disservice to the market and the game company. Why must SH5 start out with zero sales? Why must it be "all new code, all new bugs?" Why must all those who have bought SH3 and SH4 be orphaned when neither game has reached anywhere near its potential? Why is Ubi settling for chump change when it could be uncovering much more income? What part of the disposable game business model makes any sense at all for the simulation market?

With the very successful MMORPGs, predominately web-based, evolutionary rather than disposable, subscription based rather than initial sale based, customer oriented rather than plastic oriented, the world has changed. We have an instinctive distaste for business models that work against our needs, our interests and which just disrespects the customers on whom Ubi depends for its income.

I would gladly pay $5.00 per month to play an actively maintained, evolutionary submarine simulation. Whoa! That's not enough money! Bullschnitzel. What has Ubi made off of me? Nothing. I bought my piece of plastic (that's all they sell) for $15.00 on Ebay less than six months after SH4's publication date. With a $5.00 per month subscription rate, I would have paid for two years and two months, $130.00. The only entity I could pay would be Ubi.

What kind of distribution costs are associated with all those stupid boxes and plastic disks? How much is wasted on copy protection when the game should most profitably be distributed for free, since you could only play it with a subscription? Why should I have to junk all my SH3 and SH4 experience to buy a brand new game of unknown quality? I'm VERY happy with what I have.

When the entry level of a game is $5.00, many more will try it. When it is subscription based at $5.00 per month many more can afford it, although they will pay Ubi much more cash. When it is subscription based, Ubi is paid to ensure that players have a great experience, not just to produce a plastic drink coaster. Companies do what they are paid to do. A subscription must be paid to the publisher, not Ebay! Millions of dollars from the secondary markets come home where they belong.

This is easy stuff. No brain surgeon is needed to figure out why the simulation market isn't working. It isn't working because the customer is not getting what he wants and needs. It isn't working because game companies are stuck on thinking that their business is producing disposable drink coasters. It isn't working because game companies aren't producing an income stream to support their products. It isn't working because the secondary resale market has no benefit for the publisher of the game. It isn't working because we want to drive cars and Ubi is producing buggy whips.

[Mikhayl]

I'd rather play SH3 in 2015 than pay a monthly subscription, and that goes for any game there is.

[JU_88]

@RR, You concept of a subscription based evoloutionarly sub sim, is not an entirely bad one.

but in reality i reckon the innital reaction to a 5$ subscription service would be one of horror from most casual gamers.
(who by the way, out number us hardcore simmers by, like -A 1000 to 1.)

long story short, I dont belive there are enough hard core simmers out there who'd be willing to cough up a monthy subscription.

Mr Non-sub-enthusiast-Casual-gamer,(with a short attention span) might buy an SH title based on good reviews or pretty trailers, but after a couple weeks or months, he will lose interest and move on - just like he does with most games he buys.

Just my 5 cents.

[Rockin Robbins]

Actually that's the good part. The casual gamer, who wouldn't sink $50 into a sub sim that they don't have any idea they like would be able to try it out, be hooked and become a long-term customer.

Just look at the MMORPG market! Tons of people check it out for a couple of months and drop out. But most of them wouldn't have paid a penny or might have bought a game for $10 or less on Ebay, not benefiting the game company at all. Instead, the MMORPG gets full benefit of casual users. And a portion of them are hooked, paying their subscription rate for years. The companies using this model are fabulously successful.

Look. People do what you pay them to do. If you wish to pay a game company to produce a drink coaster, that's what you'll get. But if you're willing to pay them $5.00 per week to build, evolve and maintain a great game that keeps getting better, then THAT's what you'll get.

Once a drink coaster is built, there is no incentive to fix any problems, improve it, or make sure buyers have a positive experience. The game is already sold. All the cash it can generate is already in! All that is left is expenses. Expenses are to be minimized.

Game developers are expenses too! When the game is finished they have to leave to work on another drink coaster. Then, as in the case with SH3, the code is incompletely documented and nobody knows how it works. It can't be properly modified and it becomes a black box to be used or discarded. In any event, with the drink coaster marketing model, game developers are expenses to be minimized: disposable liabilities. That's what you paid for!

If you want the best game possible, that's what you have to pay for. If you want the most income possible from your project, your business model has to produce that. The drink coaster business model fails both ways.

[karamazovnew]

Today I drank half a litre of Lapin Kulta beer.:woot: What do you drink in Bucharest:hmmm:

We have preety decent Romanian beer and there's not much difference between ours and the imported one. Actually draft Timisoreana beer is good enough to sink you to the bottom without too much CO2 headaches :shucks:.
But on the other hand I'm not a fan of fitlered beer. So when I decide to get dizzy and sing some Guitar Hero tunes without feeling like a dork, I get some imported Paulaner unnfiltered beer from a nearby store :up:. Love it.

[Jimbuna]

If you compare dollars to donuts the years of enjoyment we lunatics get out of the SH series I would gladly pay more that the $49.99. Just don't tell Dan that. :o

Already did :03:

[AVGWarhawk]

Already did :03:


Damn it Jim! We are dealing with game sales here!


http://iamodb.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/bones-mccoy.jpg

[Arclight]

What part of the disposable game business model makes any sense at all for the simulation market?
Nail on the head. A sim needs ongoing support to be polished and become all it can be. :yep:

[Rockin Robbins]

Nail on the head. A sim needs ongoing support to be polished and become all it can be. :yep:

And actual game development needs to continue after release. Simulations should continually evolve with a stable dev team. There should never be another version of Silent Hunter. It should change weekly to be better and better. There could well be parallel versions for U-Boat and Fleet Boat. There would be plenty of room for a playable ASW module and interoperability between the three.

But no more drink coasters! Distribution costs and antipiracy costs (which don't do ANYTHING to keep piracy down, only make sleazy companies like Sony a lot of ill-gotten profits) can be slashed to the bone. ENCOURAGE people to copy and distribute with wild abandon, at their expense. The game can only be played with a paid subscription.

After a year and a half of evolution, the sub sims would be so good Mikhayl would be a full convert. The drink coaster business model is not capable of producing the submarine simulation the market wants and is willing to pay for.

[Mikhayl]

...After a year and a half of evolution, the sub sims would be so good Mikhayl would be a full convert...

Online activation for a game is enough for me not buying. Monthly fee for digital content? Just no way, ever.

Now maybe you're right, maybe a huge majority of people would follow that model, I don't know, I just know I wouldn't.

[JU_88]

I think MMORPG is not a good example, it has a much wider appeal than Silent hunter.

You say the casual gamer might be hooked once he plays it, (its easy enough for us to say that) but whos to say he wont pick up the sim and within a couple of hours think:, 'meh it too slow and / or too complicated - i cant be arsed'
Submarines simulations are a niche market and they have never been very popular. I dont see how providing an 'evolving subsim' will sufficiently change that.
Since you cannot bring a product market in the hope that it will create a mass of consumer interest that isnt already out there.
- unless you invented something new a revolutionary like the television, but subsims are tried and tested.

In this case you'd literally need to convert a signifficant number of casual gamers in to die-hard Subnuts... i just dont see it happening.

Dont get me wrong I love your idea. but to pay a subscription for an evolving subsim of any kind, you need to be fanatical about it. outside of this forum, how many Subsim fanatics do you know?

[Arclight]

Once again I drag the DCS series into this. The idea is to release standalone packages for a single price (no subscription or micro-transactions), but all packages can be used together.

Say after SH5 release, they continue to work on the engine (patching) while developing more subs and other units. 9 months later, they release the next game, for example British subs. People who are only interested in the British subs buy only that, but people who have both modules can choose from either German or British campaign.

Simply put, a modular structure, with all of them plugging into the same engine. The basic game is expanded and refined continuosly, while regular modules add more content and provide income.

Ideally the content is modular to such a degree, that all content can be relatively easily ported into a new engine to keep up with progressing technology.



If they can do it for a flightsim, it should be possible here too, but it requires a huge effort, I guess. :hmmm:

[Rockin Robbins]

Doesn't matter. They have decided what they will do. Now it's up to us to decide what we will do. In the meantime I love SH4 and don't feel I have a great stake in whether SH5 is a diamond or a lump of coal.

A diamond would be nice though!:D

[Elphaba]

Well.. I pre-ordered it from www.play.com on the day it was announced.

If that helps. I love this franchise, and I want them to continue. They need our support.

[danlisa]

£30, that's cheap.

Be warned that Play have recently been taking pre-orders at a certain price and then canceling those and re-listing the item at an elevated price. ;)

Amazon are doing the same thing too.:nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

Well.. I pre-ordered it from www.play.com (http://www.play.com) on the day it was announced.

If that helps. I love this franchise, and I want them to continue. They need our support.


Now there is a trooper if I have ever seen one. :up:

[goldorak]

Once again I drag the DCS series into this. The idea is to release standalone packages for a single price (no subscription or micro-transactions), but all packages can be used together.

Say after SH5 release, they continue to work on the engine (patching) while developing more subs and other units. 9 months later, they release the next game, for example British subs. People who are only interested in the British subs buy only that, but people who have both modules can choose from either German or British campaign.

Simply put, a modular structure, with all of them plugging into the same engine. The basic game is expanded and refined continuosly, while regular modules add more content and provide income.

Ideally the content is modular to such a degree, that all content can be relatively easily ported into a new engine to keep up with progressing technology.



If they can do it for a flightsim, it should be possible here too, but it requires a huge effort, I guess. :hmmm:

You can kiss your ass goodby on modding.
No sane developer is going to go that route and be in competition with free modding. It just won't happen. Just look at DW for an example. It took several years, and the game litteraly failing in the market to open up the possibility of adding new playable units (not SCS approved).
Falcon 4 AF has a similar policy as I recall.
Do you really want to give the developers so much power that they transform the game in a "closed" platform as far as modding is concerned ? :shifty:

[Arclight]

Didn't think of that one. :88)

RR is right anyway; any talk of subscription based payment or modular design is besides the point now, that ship has sailed.

Though we might nudge them in a different direction for the next game. :D

[Steeltrap]

Subscription? No thanks.

Cheap d/l trial valid for 2 weeks? OK, at the right price.

I'm one of those odd people who expect certain things of those I give money. Good business is good business whether the unit price is $5 or $5,000.

Force me to activate via Steam? Sod off.

Release the game with blindingly obvious technical glitches (such as SH4, and I mean technical in terms of the nature of the systems in the subs, NOT the programme itself)? Sod off.

Tell me I can't return it die to on-line activation, as Empire Total War did? Sod off. (Plus I still froced my retailer to take it back on the grounds of Australian trade practices laws, but that's a different story...).

While we're at it....reviews. What's with the sh!te reviewers? The scores for ETW were laughable in the face of the released product. Just nowhere near reality.

In short, I am a consumer very short on trust and Ubi has history (I though SH2 and SH4 were crap on release, which is why I waited over a year after SH3 was released, especially as it required a PC upgrade....you want me to shell out for that, you better come up with the goods).

Most software publishers fail on most measures of 'best in class' customer interaction. They deserved to be punished for it. Sadly, they won't be, as most consumers these days are like 'Pavolv's dogs'.....

[Arclight]

Sadly, they won't be, as most consumers these days are like 'Pavolv's dogs'.....
I get the impression it's more like "cornered dogs". People aren't conditioned to accept crap, they just don't have any choice. Name 1 other sub-sim that is on par with SH...

[papa_smurf]

I'm going to wait and see before I purchase, maybe a month or so after its released.

[tonschk]

£30, that's cheap.

Be warned that Play have recently been taking pre-orders at a certain price and then canceling those and re-listing the item at an elevated price. ;)



I Agree , I think 30 UK pounds for the new SH5 is very cheap , if the new version of the Silent Hunter serie have Dynamic Shadows and many new well made features I am ready to pay much more than that to support this Silent Hunter simulation



.

[martes86]

I don't remember at what price I got SH4, but SH3 was at 20€, for me, that's cheap, and a good way to fight piracy. About subscriptions to be able to play, I definitely don't suppport those. My time is so limited, that I'd probably be buying a subscription I wouldn't use.

[Nexus7]

What we do here, buy on day one or buy after a year, is totally not relevant to ubisoft (IMO), we will buy it anyway...

What can be done is to avoid expressing harsh/dumb criticism if I don't exactly get what i expected in here.

I ask myself why those niche games producers do not want to drive the buyers into some community (here).
(it is so trendy... facebook and all the social networks...)

Now if i was to buy something I am usually uninterested in, say car racing, I would never spend 50$ on it.

Making some sort of moral out of it... we are addressing Ubisoft here and not the developers (witch I guess are much more receptive/human).

Hints to a game producer ? For me his first concern is: how do I attrract as many people as possible to buy the box ?

[U2222]

I'm buying on the day through Subsim.
Purchase relevant extras and add ons after release - yes - but any future sub sim which is subscription based - I'm out - no interest.

[JU_88]

I Agree , I think 30 UK pounds for the new SH5 is very cheap , if the new version of the Silent Hunter serie have Dynamic Shadows and many new well made features I am ready to pay much more than that to support this Silent Hunter simulation



.


£30 Cheap?
Its average, since i first started playing PC games back in 2000
I have NEVER paid more than £34.99 for a new PC title - ever!. And that was only because they charged that much in HMV and high street stores.

I buy all my games online now, so ive not paid more than £29.99 (for a brand new release) since the past 3 year or so now.

[Arclight]

For a game that has that kind of replay value, it's cheap. ;)

You pay the same for that quick 8-10 hour playthrough that you shelve after completing it.

[U2222]

For us devotees it's cheap.
But - horses for courses.
Don't forget that lots of folk have payed out to buy sub sims, loaded them up and found it's not their kind of game.
For them it is also an 8-10 hour play through before shelving.
Everybody to their own

[vanjast]

I might not even buy it... :up:

Edt: Actually I won't buy it as I'll be too busy flying BOB:Sow as it's something that's guaranteed to work flawlessly from the start..
You know that product from Oleg Maddox, Ubi's 'ex-partner' :)

[JU_88]

:up:
Edt: Actually I won't buy it as I'll be too busy flying BOB:Sow as it's :)

Yeah if it ever comes out, otherwise you wont be :haha::haha: