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OneToughHerring
08-22-09, 09:35 AM
Calley apologizes. (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/813820.html)

Anyone convinced by this? Does an 'apology' settle anything? Also, was Calley a scapegoat?

Personally I think he was guilty, plenty guilty. Enough to put him inside for the rest of his days. But that there were other guilty ones as well.
XabbaRus
08-22-09, 09:53 AM
Nope but the sick thing is he was the only one convicted.

Actually reading about what he was convicted for and how long he actually served I think is quite a counter point to el-Magrahi beign released.

Calley was/is guilty witnessed to doing the killings, sentenced to life,served 3 years house arrest.

el-Magrahi convicted under dubious evidence, disagreement as to whether he was the bomber, sentenced to life, g to be dead in 3 months or so, seved 8 years.

Interesting.
OneToughHerring
08-22-09, 11:51 AM
Yea. There are some who wonder how high the rot really went, maybe even higher then Medina, the captain who gave Calley his order. Also, even Calleys men who carried out the massacre are guilty in my eyes, you don't accidentally kill and and even rape people.

Calley has really come up with a nice story. "Following orders...misheard...noise from helicopter...".

Here's some stuff directly from the mouths of Calleys soldiers who carried out the massacre. There were even rapes going on but I guess Calley missed those too.

Four hours in My Lai (1/7)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYzb9DH7YAE
(rest is in the links)
XabbaRus
08-22-09, 03:23 PM
I read quite a bit about it. I don't really want to hear the perpatrators talk about it. Makes me sick.

What really got to me was the chopper crew got into trouble and that bloomin congressman wanted them court martialed....and they got hate mail too...

Hell they were some of the bravest guys in that war.
August
08-22-09, 03:30 PM
Calley and his Commanding officer should have been put up against a wall and executed and his men should have been put in jail for life. No excuse for such barbarism.
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 08:05 AM
Calley and his Commanding officer should have been put up against a wall and executed and his men should have been put in jail for life. No excuse for such barbarism.

But he wasn't shot. None of them were shot. Calley only did a couple of years in house arrest (!) and walked. He wasn't even tortured, neither was Medina or the others.
August
08-24-09, 09:35 AM
But he wasn't shot. None of them were shot. Calley only did a couple of years in house arrest (!) and walked. He wasn't even tortured, neither was Medina or the others.

I know. Your point?
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 10:00 AM
I know. Your point?

If you think he should be shot then go and shoot him then. Not a difficult target, IMHO.
August
08-24-09, 11:01 AM
If you think he should be shot then go and shoot him then. Not a difficult target, IMHO.

Trying to convince another person to break a law that you wouldn't break yourself is the height of moral cowardice.
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 11:02 AM
Trying to convince another person to break a law that you wouldn't break yourself is the height of moral cowardice.

So in your mind the law that protects him is in conflict with your sense of what's right and wrong?
August
08-24-09, 11:04 AM
So in your mind the law that protects him is in conflict with your sense of what's right and wrong?

Again, do you have a point?
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 11:06 AM
Again, do you have a point?

Well I'm just sort of in awe that you would state so blatantly about your wish to have Calley etc. shot but also seem to think that the law that protects him from actually being shot is valid as well. Seems like a bit of a conflict there.
August
08-24-09, 11:23 AM
Well I'm just sort of in awe that you would state so blatantly about your wish to have Calley etc. shot but also seem to think that the law that protects him from actually being shot is valid as well. Seems like a bit of a conflict there.

I don't see the conflict. Just because they didn't do what I would have wanted them to do doesn't mean I don't support their right to do what they did.
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 11:25 AM
I don't see the conflict. Just because they didn't do what I would have wanted them to do doesn't mean I don't support their right to do what they did.

So you really don't want him to be shot, you're just saying that in order to look more 'just' in hindsight. Very clever too, go for the statute of limitations-thing, they'll never try an old man.
August
08-24-09, 11:34 AM
So you really don't want him to be shot, you're just saying that in order to look more 'just' in hindsight. Very clever too, go for the statute of limitations-thing, they'll never try an old man.


I never said I wanted him to be shot now.
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 11:36 AM
I never said I wanted him to be shot now.

Yea that's right, in the justice system of your mind his statute of limitations has passed, right?
August
08-24-09, 02:00 PM
Yea that's right, in the justice system of your mind his statute of limitations has passed, right?

No statute of limitations on murder here in the US.
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 02:02 PM
No statute of limitations on murder here in the US.

So why do you think he shouldn't be shot/gassed/poisoned/whatever today for his crimes?
August
08-24-09, 02:04 PM
So why do you think he shouldn't be shot/gassed/poisoned/whatever today for his crimes?

Because it would violate the law.
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 02:43 PM
Because it would violate the law.

But morally you hold him culpable for murder(s), even today?
Aramike
08-24-09, 03:13 PM
I agree with August. Calley should have been shot.
August
08-24-09, 04:54 PM
But morally you hold him culpable for murder(s), even today?

Sure, don't you?
OneToughHerring
08-24-09, 05:07 PM
Sure, don't you?

Yea of course. Not that I expect the US military to pass any kind of judgement on their own, that kind of stuff goes against their ways.
August
08-24-09, 09:32 PM
Yea of course. Not that I expect the US military to pass any kind of judgement on their own, that kind of stuff goes against their ways.

Then clearly you know nothing about the US or it's military.
Aramike
08-24-09, 10:03 PM
Then clearly you know nothing about the US or it's military.Of course he doesn't. He's one of those, shall we say, limited individuals who thinks that the worst case tiny minority represents the whole.
Max2147
08-24-09, 10:46 PM
Had the laws been properly applied to Calley and his superiors/subordinates, he would have been lined up against a wall and shot. The failure in this case came from the people in the system, not the system itself.

Why did the people in the system fail to properly use it? That's never been publicly explained. My uneducated guess (having not studied the case closely) is that a full investigation and trial would have revealed some unpleasant truths that the military wanted to keep quiet, possibly including the involvement/negligence of superiors and/or additional massacres. But I have no real evidence to back that up.
FIREWALL
08-24-09, 11:09 PM
Trying to apply Todays standards to the 1960's is ridiculous.
In a combat zone in the 60's you could be shot for disobeying a direct order.

Talk in the 1950's (Taill Gunner Joes era) like we do today and you would be jobless and probably get the hell beat out of you on a regular basis.
OneToughHerring
08-28-09, 02:12 PM
Trying to apply Todays standards to the 1960's is ridiculous.
In a combat zone in the 60's you could be shot for disobeying a direct order.

Talk in the 1950's (Taill Gunner Joes era) like we do today and you would be jobless and probably get the hell beat out of you on a regular basis.



That's no excuse for what Calley did.

There is another similar case, the Tiger Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Force) and it's actions. Their crimes took place before My Lai massacre and if brought out into open might have prevented the massacre. As it is we only found out about the TF's crimes in 2002. And there are probably other similar cased that are still kept from public eye from the Vietnam war.