View Full Version : Can we pick up ALL Survivors?!
Kamikaze Krazy
08-22-09, 12:11 AM
I'm frustrated that after torpedoing an enemy ship or watching a friendly ship sinking, that I can't rescue the survivors. That just isn't right.:nope: I think it would be more historically accurate if you can pick them up for some "renown". However rescuing sailors of different nationality would have an impact on your game play.
For example, if you try to rescue Japanese sailors, they may cooperate and allow themselves to be picked up, may say "No, go away!" and may try to get away from your sub, or worse... they may be "fully loyal to the Emperor" and try to blow up OR damage your sub with explosives in their life raft/boat!:dead:
I really do hope that we can chose different campaigns in SH5, like Japanese, German, American, and perhaps even British.
What do you guys think?:hmmm:
FIREWALL
08-22-09, 12:16 AM
In SH4 you can pickup friendlies for a part of completeing a mission.
Maybe they'll put in a improved version.
JScones
08-22-09, 12:56 AM
Going back a step, I'd like to see lifeboats and other flotsam and jetsom modelled.
Picking up survivors would be a nice feature, but gee it would take a bit of effort to fully implement. There's a lot more to it than just pulling up beside a ship and clicking a "Rescue survivors" button. What are you going to do with them? Where are you going to offload them? What impact will they have on your patrol duties? The game would need to support answers to these questions as well, lest buyers complain of another half implemented feature.
FIREWALL
08-22-09, 01:10 AM
Going back a step, I'd like to see lifeboats and other flotsam and jetsom modelled.
Picking up survivors would be a nice feature, but gee it would take a bit of effort to fully implement. There's a lot more to it than just pulling up beside a ship and clicking a "Rescue survivors" button. What are you going to do with them? Where are you going to offload them? What impact will they have on your patrol duties? The game would need to support answers to these questions as well, lest buyers complain of another half implemented feature.
Picking up downed US pilots is in SH4.
Contact
08-22-09, 01:12 AM
The merchant sailors knew where they're going when they joined merchant marine during the war. From the moment they leave the native harbour they stop being innocent citizens, they become guardians of vital warfare supply and thus bocame legitimate targets for u-boats with their ships and their lives.
It's just a myth that u-boats were in war against materia only - ships. Not less important was their crew from tactical point of view.
JScones
08-22-09, 01:15 AM
Picking up downed US pilots is in SH4.
Somewhat different than filling a u-boat with enemy ship survivors now isn't it? A friendly US pilot or two in a US sub is not a logistic or administrative burden. Try 10-20 if not more Allied survivors crawling all over your u-boat and see what happens. ;)
FIREWALL
08-22-09, 01:30 AM
Somewhat different than filling a u-boat with enemy ship survivors now isn't it? A friendly US pilot or two in a US sub is not a logistic or administrative burden. Try 10-20 if not more Allied survivors crawling all over your u-boat and see what happens. ;)
CRASH DIVE :haha: BTW . Haveing any thoughts about a SHBdU for SH5 ?
JScones
08-22-09, 01:31 AM
:rotfl:
FIREWALL
08-22-09, 01:34 AM
CRASH DIVE :haha:
BTW . Haveing any thoughts about a SHBdU for SH5 ?
:DL
JScones
08-22-09, 01:38 AM
Answer in post 471 here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1156213#post1156213).
;)
FIREWALL
08-22-09, 01:47 AM
" In all seriousness, I will consider developing an SH5Cmdr "
How about SH5BdU ? More U-Boat sounding. :D
JScones
08-22-09, 01:50 AM
Maybe a "* Name yet to be defined" disclaimer is warranted, LOL!
It wouldn't be called SH5Cmdr; it would be called something more U-bootwaffe-y, and relevant to the scope of its contents.
FIREWALL
08-22-09, 02:01 AM
:woot::woot::woot::up::up::up:
GWX without SHC would be like peanut butter without jam
ham without eggs or a beautiful woman without s --, well you know what I mean.:DL
I wonder about GWX4 :cry:
JScones
08-22-09, 02:08 AM
I agree that GWX and SH3Cmdr go well together.
But there'll be no SH4Cmdr, at least not by me and seemingly not by anyone. A few people have put up their hands, but it is a big task requiring a lot of time and commitment, as I think they've all subsequently found out.
Fortunately I learnt a lot through SH3Cmdr which, notwithstanding the learning curve required for SH5, should help avoid a lot of the issues both users and I had with SH3Cmdr. Fresh approach, fresh coding. Looking forward to it...but only if it's needed.
Apologies OP for derailing your thread.
SilentAngel
08-22-09, 02:10 AM
Well you woudnt need to care to much about enemy sailors in the water:
'Do not rescue people and take them along.
Do not worry about lifeboats, concern yourself only with your boat and the effort to achieve the next success as quickly as possible. We must be hard in this war'
- Admiral Dönitz.
Contact
08-22-09, 02:12 AM
Well you woudnt need to care to much about enemy sailors in the water:
'Do not rescue people and take them along.
Do not worry about lifeboats, concern yourself only with your boat and the effort to achieve the next success as quickly as possible. We must be hard in this war'
- Admiral Dönitz.
Precisly :cool:
FIREWALL
08-22-09, 02:12 AM
I have NEVER had any problems with any version of SHC. :yeah:
The problem is the USER. :yep: :haha:
JScones
08-22-09, 02:53 AM
The problem is the USER. :yep: :haha:
Correct, but try convincing them of that. ;)
Common sense and logic seems to go out the window when computer usage is involved.
FIREWALL
08-22-09, 02:57 AM
If they would only take the manual from under the leg of their cheap desk and look it over . :03:
Dimitrius07
08-22-09, 03:27 AM
Can we pick up ALL Survivors?! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1156228#post1156228)
Friendly maybe, just like in SH4 :hmmm:.
In all seriousness, I will consider developing an SH5Cmdr
Maybe the devs will include some options from the Cmdr.... just trying to think positive :03:.
keltos01
08-22-09, 03:28 AM
japanese sailor commits suicide by hand grenade next to US sub :
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7179/90388199.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/i/90388199.jpg/)
link :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W6FwoXl624
unreal !
keltos
JScones
08-22-09, 03:32 AM
Maybe the devs will include some options from the Cmdr.... just trying to think positive :03:.
Unfortunately Firewall has only quoted part of my post. If you read the full post in the link I posted above, you'll notice that I have commented exactly as you just posted. ;)
Dimitrius07
08-22-09, 05:04 AM
Unfortunately Firewall has only quoted part of my post. If you read the full post in the link I posted above, you'll notice that I have commented exactly as you just posted. ;)
You right i miss that :03:
Sailor Steve
08-22-09, 02:09 PM
U-boat: A cramped tube holding 50 or so men, with barely room to move.
So you sink a merchant. What then? Pick up another 30-40 ENEMY sailors. Sink another merchant. Pick up another 40 men. Where do you put them? How do you feed them.
Sorry, just didn't happen.
iambecomelife
08-22-09, 06:16 PM
I agree with Sailor Steve. Historically, U-Boats were only supposed to pick up at most a handful of survivors who might be of intelligence value. For instance, on uboat.net you will often read that the master or 1-2 officers of a freighter were captured after it sank. This would be a nice feature immersion-wise for SH5 - perhaps you could gain some extra renown if the survivors gave up vital intelligence info. Codebooks, convoy charts, signalling codes, & other documents being recovered for renown would be a nice touch too. But full-fledged search & rescue is a bit much.
Capt.Warner
08-22-09, 09:32 PM
It would be Nice if you could rescue them but if they are enemys flak gun them:dead:
Subnuts
08-22-09, 09:37 PM
It would be Nice if you could rescue them but if they are enemys flak gun them:dead:
...Annnnnnnnnnnnd this thread has now officially entered the 10th Circle.
It would be Nice if you could rescue them but if they are enemys flak gun them:dead:
Or maybe put that MG34 we see in SH3's conning tower to a better use. :arrgh!:
Hanomag
08-22-09, 10:00 PM
It would be Nice if you could rescue them but if they are enemys flak gun them:dead:
Or maybe put that MG34 we see in SH3's conning tower to a better use. :arrgh!:
Yes.. yes.. mow down the shwinehund... :up:
Oops..sorry.. :o
SilentAngel
08-23-09, 10:31 AM
War criminals!:stare:
Hanomag
08-23-09, 11:29 AM
War criminals!:stare:
Well ..my SH3Commander random fate was "captured in Venezuela in 2002, tried by the EJC (for war crimes- machinegunning survivors HMS Newcastle, 1942) and sentenced to life imprisonment. Subsequently dying of cancer in 2003." :dead:
Kapitan_Phillips
08-23-09, 01:40 PM
Well, if they cant implement picking up survivors, what about some way of signalling a rescue for them? I'm pretty sure U-Boats used to toss them cigarettes and food, and shoot a flare or something up into the air, or bring back a neutral merchant to pick them up.
Kamikaze Krazy
08-27-09, 02:30 AM
"There's a lot more to it than just pulling up beside a ship and clicking a "Rescue survivors" button. What are you going to do with them? Where are you going to offload them? What impact will they have on your patrol duties? The game would need to support answers to these questions as well, lest buyers complain of another half implemented feature" -JSconesI have thought about this and I agree with you.:up:
What would you do with them? Offload them maybe at an Allied port, or like what Kapitan_Phillips just said:
"Well, if they cant implement picking up survivors, what about some way of signaling a rescue for them? I'm pretty sure U-Boats used to toss them cigarettes and food, and shoot a flare or something up into the air, or bring back a neutral merchant to pick them up."As for survivors/POW's, it would be determined by what space is on your boat at that very moment. If you have all of your crew spaces in your crew management screen full, a full load of fish, and food boxes everywhere, then you might only be able to carry 5-10. On the other hand, if you have only two fish, five empty spaces in the crew management screen, and no food boxes piled high to the ceiling, then you could carry... say 30-40 survivors/POW's. There could also be a counter of how many there are on board like this: 14/30.:yeah:
On top of all of this, if you pick up survivors/POW's, they could also be in the crew management screen (C.M.S.). For example, if you have an allied (Axis or otherwise) survivor, that person would have a blue ALLIED SURVIVOR stamped onto their portrait. If it is an enemy airman, there would be a red ENEMY AIRMAN stamped onto their portrait... or at least something similar to this. You can only move them to where there is an empty spot on the C.M.S.:hmmm::06:
How do you like those apples?:know: Well, at least I think they are good ideas!:D:up:
Schultz
08-27-09, 04:59 AM
If I remember from my history lessons,U-boat captains weren't allowed to take survivors (just if they were germans) or prisoners from the order of the fuhrer,because they were afraid about the Engima or the prisoners would sabotage the U-boat
Subnuts
08-27-09, 07:34 AM
If I remember from my history lessons,U-boat captains weren't allowed to take survivors (just if they were germans) or prisoners from the order of the fuhrer,because they were afraid about the Engima or the prisoners would sabotage the U-boat
I think you need to punch your history teacher in the face:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_Order
fireship4
08-27-09, 11:03 AM
lol
Webster
08-27-09, 12:18 PM
i think if they give you the ability to "report" survivors and give the location then that should be simple way to get renown for helping them without the "where to put them" question.
i can see where it might work to pick up a lone downed pilot from your side as you come accross them instead of it being a dictated mission providing your crew slots arent already full so they join your crew until you refit and when the crew slots are all full you will lose the ability to pick them up. (then the reporting them solution above could apply.
Grothesj2
08-28-09, 04:00 AM
Other than picking up your own down airmen or capturing a couple of people of intel value you shouldn't be in the saving victims buisness. Perhaps some leeway BEFORE the time of the Laconia incident but certainly not after.
Laconia-Befehl</B> (Laconia order)
1) Jegliche Rettungsversuche von Angehörigen versenkter Schiffe, also auch das Auffischen Schwimmender und Anbordgabe auf Rettungs- boote, Aufrichten gekenterter Rettungsboote, Abgabe von Nahrungsmitteln und Wasser haben zu unterbleiben. Rettung widerspricht den primitivsten Forderungen der Kriegsführung nach Vernichtung feindlicher Schiffe und deren Besatzungen.
2) Die Befehle über das Mitbringen von Kapitänen und Chefingenieuren bleiben bestehen.
3) Schiffbrüchige nur dann retten, wenn ihre Aussagen für das Boot von Wichtigkeit sind.
4) Bleibt hart. Denkt daran, das der Gegner bei seinen Bombenangriffen auf deutsche Städte keine Rücksicht auf Frauen und Kinder nimmt!
Transl.
1) Every attempt to save survivors of sunken ships, also the fishing up of swimming men and putting them on board lifeboats, the setup right of overturned lifeboats, the handing over of food and water have be discontinued. These rescues contradict the primary demands of warfare esp. the destruction of enemy ships and their crews.
2) The orders concerning the bringing in of skippers and chief engineers stay in effect.
3) Survivors are only to rescue, if their statements are important for the boat.
4) Stay hard. Don't forget, that the enemy didn't take any regard for woman and children when bombarding German towns.
Not all survivors I would say. There are some (or rather very few) incidents where uboats picked up survivors from ships they sunk, but that usualy were single person or even duo's (Hardegen, as example, picked one survivor up on one of his patrols and this survivor was placed in a POW camp after making port).
However, rescue missions for striken uboats would be great, IMO and those are historically accounted for.
Talyllyn
09-07-09, 04:28 PM
Yes.. yes.. mow down the shwinehund... :up:
Oops..sorry.. :o
Kapitänleutnant Heinz-William Heck U852 was executed for war crimes after his war diary provided evidence that he had machine gunned survivors from the Greek ship Peleus. Although his primary objective was to sink all the floating debris after sinking the ship.
You do wonder if Werner Hartenstein U156 would have tried quite so hard to save the survivors of the Laconia if they had not been mostly Italian prisoners.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Kapitänleutnant Heinz-William Heck U852 was executed for war crimes after his war diary provided evidence that he had machine gunned survivors from the Greek ship Peleus. Although his primary objective was to sink all the floating debris after sinking the ship.
Heck's case was, IMO, a case of "Siegerjustiz" and the sentence way over board, compared to other stuff or procedures.
Not all survivors I would say. There are some (or rather very few) incidents where uboats picked up survivors from ships they sunk, but that usualy were single person or even duo's (Hardegen, as example, picked one survivor up on one of his patrols and this survivor was placed in a POW camp after making port).
However, rescue missions for striken uboats would be great, IMO and those are historically accounted for.
It happened more frequently than you may think.
The captain or another senior surviving officer was taken prisoner on numerous occasions.
More than once these prisoners joined the fate of their captors with the loss of the u boat.
There are accounts of survivors pretending that their captain had died to prevent his capture.
iambecomelife
09-09-09, 07:37 PM
Instead of focusing on survivors, being able to retrieve various items from the water or from drifting ships would be an excellent touch. Such as the following:
-Naval Codebooks
-Signalling Tables
-Convoy Organization Documents
-Cargo Manifests
-Intelligence Reports
On more than one occasion submarines managed to locate valuable information about the Allies' war effort either by boarding wrecks or searching the flotsam. At the end of the patrol you should get a renown boost for every such item you retrieve, as long as it has some intelligence worth. We already have the ability to rescue shot-down pilots, so I doubt it would be that tough to code.
nattydread
09-09-09, 10:45 PM
Japanese survivors were very reluctant to being rescued. They were told the US military would do horrible things to them. Japanese civilians were more inclined to accept rescue, but overall it seems the Japanese would rather take their chances at sea.
The Japanese escorts were pretty good about picking up survivors...those still left after the horrible inept and near blind depth-charging of the area. Survivors who lived through the depth-charging from friendly units talk about the unbelievable pain and pressure the pressure waved caused in the water.
It would knock you unconscious, and if it didnt, you'd have a front row seat of the forced evacuation of your bowels.
Ashikaga
09-04-16, 05:02 PM
Sorry to revive an old topic but.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/Survivor%20message_zpsbnvchgk7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/BOOOOM_zpskj6jtkjn.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/Survivorboat_zps6rnqt9zx.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/Survivors_zpsnxnx1foi.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/IMPERIALCOMMAND/Pickup%20survivors_zpsttyskvwb.jpg
:)
Radio it in, give flares, food and water.
As per decree.
Changes later, I know.
Ashikaga.
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