Contract Of Common Sense [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

TDK1044

08-21-09, 06:35 AM

Hi Guys,

We're now on a 7 month run up to the release of the game. I believe that the game is scheduled to release in Australia on march 20 2010. If Ubisoft follows in the same footsteps as SH3 and SH4, that will put the European/US release of SH5 within a week of that date.

The pattern that usually emerges on this forum on the lead up to the release of a new version of Silent Hunter, is a mixture of excitement, anticipation and frustration, as people are seeking answers to questions relating to issues such as what technical specs will be required in order to run the game.

I think Silent Hunter 5 looks like an exciting new venture for us sub simmers, and I thank Dan and his team for all the hard work they have put into this new game. We have to look to history though and understand that it is highly likely that this game will be released in an unfinished state, and that it will require significant patching for 6 to 9 months after its release.

So let's accept now that the game will be playable when it's released, but it won't be a truly great sim until it's fully patched and the modders have got to grips with it.

I say all this because we don't want a whole load of people stating that Ubisoft sucks and they want to sue the company etc. We've seen and heard it all before and it's very boring.

While the vast majority of members here will understandably pre-order the game, hopefully from Subsim so that our forum benefits from the sales, I have made the choice to wait and purchase the game about 9 months after its release. There will only be a handful of people who do this, and in my case, I just don't want to go through the whole process of installing and uninstalling mods as each new patch is released. Been there, done that. Very boring.

I will purchase the game at the end of 2010. The difference between what I pay for it at that time and the $49.99 retail price I will donate to subsim. I will then patch it once, mod it once and then enjoy it.

Let's initiate a 'Contract Of Common Sense' though. We all know the pattern of how this will play out between now and December 2010, when the sim will probably have achieved the status of being the best sub sim of all time.

Let's celebrate what the game will undoubtedly become, and not moan and complain about every little thing we don't like in the meantime. :)

henriksultan

08-21-09, 06:41 AM

Internet will never be freed from whiners but Ill sign the contract and hope that we at least get all the function somewhat working that is promised :O:

I trust in the developers and will love the game even with its bugs and all in the beginning because I know how great it will become :up:

Jimbuna

08-21-09, 06:42 AM

Ever the optimist TDK? :hmmm::DL

Great post though http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

JU_88

08-21-09, 06:45 AM

Good post :)
(edit) Though I will have my copy of SH5 pre-ordered, support the franchise properly or else there wont be one- simple as that.

TDK1044

08-21-09, 06:46 AM

Ever the optimist TDK? :hmmm::DL

Great post though http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

Just a realist, Jim. I hope for the best and expect the worst. :)

JScones

08-21-09, 07:02 AM

Ironically, this thread already seems like a lone voice in the breeze...

Good luck garnering support though. :up:

Onkel Neal

08-21-09, 07:47 AM

I will purchase the game at the end of 2010. The difference between what I pay for it at that time and the $49.99 retail price I will donate to subsim. I will then patch it once, mod it once and then enjoy it.

I appreciate that, but I would prefer that you buy the game when it is released and put it on the shelf until the time you feel it is patched and ready to play. Subsim can always use donation, but it is crucial to the survival of the submarine simulation genre that SH5 is a commercial success out of the gate. I endorse buying the game on release as long as Ubisoft is clearly trying to make the best subsim possible. Buy the game, keep the pressure on the suits at Ubi to support the Romanians in touching up any flaws.

I do not give a game--even a subsim--a blank endorsement check. As I said, I endorse buying a game on release to support the genre as long as Ubisoft is clearly trying to make the best subsim possible. SH2 was not a tremendous game, but I knew from months of working with the dev team that they meant to overcome so many obstacles and make it as good as possible. I threw my full support behind SH2, even though it was not the game we all wanted. It was, however, successful, and responsible for keeping the flame alive.

SH3 was a great game. SH4 was a good game that Ubisoft released too early. I was not as involved with SH4 as I was with SH2 and 3, so I cannot vouch for Ubisoft there. The marketing was bureaucratic and not very responsive, I was not "in the loop" much, and I think that was because they knew the game was not ready. If the same situation plays through with SH5, I may agree with the wait and see attitude. Being an optimist, I think Ubi will not make the same mistakes with SH5.

best
Neal

AVGWarhawk

08-21-09, 07:52 AM

Nah. I will not wait and see. I will purchase the game when available. I keep the faith that SH5 will be the culmination of all that was learned in previous releases. ;) As Jim stated....perpetual optimist. I am one of those.

TDK1044

08-21-09, 07:53 AM

That's a deal, Neal. I'll buy it up front through subsim. I'm just "patchaphobic" now after SH3 and SH4. :) I think SH5 will be fantastic once finished though.

Uber Gruber

08-21-09, 08:07 AM

I'll buy it when its ready, if that means after 2 or 3 patches then so be it.

If my stance causes UBI's sales figures to force the "end of sub sims by Ubisoft" then that's absolutely no skin of my nose.

If you, in this forum, believe my stance to be incorrect then thats cool too. If game companies expect people to beta test their products then they should charge "half now and half when its fixed" and not the full fare.

But you know, i've been around long enough to know there will always be a sub sim somewhere. :smug:

AVGWarhawk

08-21-09, 08:16 AM

I see only one bug in this game. Watch the trailer one more time. The cook...he is thin....I do not eat were the cook is thin. Get this changed to a fat jolly old fellow. ;)

Rockin Robbins

08-21-09, 08:18 AM

I think that based on Subsim's record of knocking themselves out to make SH4 a viable sub sim, pre-purchase is not a bad option. I do not agree that the submarine simulation genre is in Ubi's hands though. Although they are presently sucking all the oxygen out of the sub sim atmosphere, if they made a serious misstep and left the genre, someone else would be more than happy to breathe that air.

However, Ubi has a solid record of taking care of us. If we have decided to hang back and if sales look weak, we need to change our mind and step up to the plate. They deserve our support based on their attitude and support of this community.

Let's see: $50 divided over 2.5 years I've played SH4, that's 913 days is about a nickel a day. I'd say that is a pretty reasonable price, although on a game of lesser quality I'd only allocate half of that. It's ludicrous to buy a Coke a day and grouse about the cost of a $50.00 computer game.

TDK, you make perfect sense. Our conduct should be rooted in respect and appreciation for the company who produces the simulations we love. They deserve the benefit of the doubt when we are ascribing motives to their behavior and our patience when something is not quite to our liking. Sign me on.

Kloef

08-21-09, 08:34 AM

Great post,but as stated i too will buy the game on release day,and put it on the shelve if nessesary....i like games that enjoy the full attention of the people that created it,especially after release.

The sim market is a difficult one,and very unpredictable.These people need our support,they take a gamble so we should too..our support is by buying the game,their support is the service and patching that makes the game better and more enjoyable,mods or not.I think its a pretty good deal don't you think?

I will however sign the contract because i hate all the wining and complaining in the beginning,and the praising by some of the same people after things get better.

Just my 2 cents..

JU_88

08-21-09, 08:34 AM

I see only one bug in this game. Watch the trailer one more time. The cook...he is thin....I do not eat were the cook is thin. Get this changed to a fat jolly old fellow. ;)

:rotfl:
ROFL, well maybe he is so sick of the sight and smell of food, he has somewhat lost his appetite..
Then again - after just coming out of the 1930s recession (in heavily sanctioned Germany) - I would doubt it somehow :D

JU_88

08-21-09, 08:46 AM

Let's see: $50 divided over 2.5 years I've played SH4, that's 913 days is about a nickel a day. I'd say that is a pretty reasonable price, although on a game of lesser quality I'd only allocate half of that. It's ludicrous to buy a Coke a day and grouse about the cost of a $50.00 computer game

Agreed, here in the UK a new PC game cost about £24.99 off play or Amazon. My own personal philosophy is that - if I got about hours worth of enjoyable gaming for each £1 i spent *(so £25 = 25 hours)* I got good value for money.
So for games like SH3/SH4, GTA 4, ArmA2 & Red Alert 3 (all games that i have played endlessly)
I got a really good bargin as far as I'm concerned, nothing else i can think of with a mere price tag of £24.99 even comes close. :up:

Jimbuna

08-21-09, 08:53 AM

Just a realist, Jim. I hope for the best and expect the worst. :)

Keep the faith my friend....I have a good feeling about this http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

TDK1044

08-21-09, 08:57 AM

Keep the faith my friend....I have a good feeling about this http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Yep. Me too. I think this sim will be excellent.....I'm just not sure how 'finished' it will be when they release it. We'll see. :)

Reece

08-21-09, 09:12 AM

I purchased SH2, then pre ordered SH3 & SH4 (though I never actually played SH4). I agree with Neal & will also support the continuation of the Silent Hunter series by pre ordering SH5 as well.:yep: I'm optimistic that this version will be a hit!!:smug:

Sonarman

08-21-09, 09:57 AM

Whilst I do agree that SH4 was released too early (especially in the radar dept) I think Ubisoft has probably learned from the experience.

The presence of guys like Dan & Mihai here on the forum sometimes even late at night show they have a true committment & love for the subject that goes way beyond the 9 to 5 job mentality.

Rather than boycotting the release and punishing Ubi we should be encouraging them, actively asking for addons and expansions, showing them the product "has legs" and making them think twice about splitting up and re-assignning the dev team at the end of project as they have in the past.

I don't agree that anyone else would step in to fill the breech if Ubi disappeared why bother when you can make a cute "dress the puppy" game in a couple of months with a third of the SH devteam and sell ten times as many copies on the consoles as SH ever will on the PC. Ubi are showing faith in the subsim genre and we must return the favour that's the "common sense" approach as far as I see it.

Let's face it SH costs about the same as 2 crappy Hollywood DVDs you watch once and never watch again. Look at the amount of time SHIII has been out and people are still playing and enjoying it years and years later, to say that's not a good return on investment even at full RRP is just nuts.

Lt commander lare

08-21-09, 10:18 AM

i will buy it through subsim as soon as its available neal is right i dont think there going to make the same mistakes we all make mistakes and we also have the power to change them i think sh5 will be great if not the japs will here from me again with a bow shot in 32 seconds my boat is always ready for anything

lt commander lare

Contact

08-21-09, 10:41 AM

I see only one bug in this game. Watch the trailer one more time. The cook...he is thin....I do not eat were the cook is thin. Get this changed to a fat jolly old fellow. ;)

Hah, you know why the fat guys were never accepted into submariners ? Because they would probably stuck in the hatch hole :haha:

Dimitrius07

08-21-09, 10:50 AM

Let's celebrate what the game will undoubtedly become

No problem :woot:, lets start with Living Crew, i want to drink a bear for that one, care to join :salute:

Sailor Steve

08-21-09, 10:57 AM

I say all this because we don't want a whole load of bitching and moaning and people stating that Ubisoft sucks and they want to sue the company etc. We've seen and heard it all before and it's very boring.
But...but...but...

I agree wholeheartedly. I didn't preorder SH3, but I bought it the soon after release even though it was more than a month before I had a computer that could run it. I bought SH4 a little late, mainly because I was homeless at the time and had no money. As soon as I had the money I bought it and put it in my storage space with my computer. My old PC still doesn't run it well, but I play it anyway on minimum settings and live with it.

I'll preorder SH5, and if money is tight I'll buy it as soon as I can. Even if it's flawed, it's still looking like something new and different, and worth having. Hopefully it won't be too flawed, and will be working properly within a patch or two. Whatever happens, I'm in, if for no other reason than to selfishly say that I was there.

ETR3(SS)

08-21-09, 10:57 AM

I see only one bug in this game. Watch the trailer one more time. The cook...he is thin....I do not eat were the cook is thin. Get this changed to a fat jolly old fellow. ;) We had a fat cook on the boat, and by fat I mean 300lbs plus. :timeout:

Hah, you know why the fat guys were never accepted into submariners ? Because they would probably stuck in the hatch hole :haha: Same guy as mentioned above, although rumor had it when he checked on-board he was a pretty trim guy. It was his MSC that turned him fat. I believed it after meeting the guy to. I kept taking bets every patrol that this would be "the one" that he would eat himself into the boat. :haha:

Brag

08-21-09, 11:34 AM

I am happy and grateful to Ubi just for coming out with another subsim. This indicates long term commitement to the genre. This commitement makes Ubi deserve our support.

Bitching about a product that has not yet been released is simply childish.

A good subsim a la Ubi is complex enough that bugs will not show up until a large number of players get their hands on it. That is when reports and constructive critique come into play.

Ubi devs visit this forum and other sites associated with our community and they listen.

I sincerely hope that this time, Ubi will keep Neal in the loop. The GWX team, could also be of great help prior to release.

(signing on the doted line :D)

razark

08-21-09, 11:39 AM

I agree completely, but I will take this further. I know that they will release a game that contains bugs, even if they learned from previous problems and try to make the released version as bug-free as possible. There will be bugs in any program.

Also, the game will be an advancement over SH3 and SH4. But not as advanced as it could be. The developers will apply what they learn to SH6.

SH6 will be much better than SH5. The graphics will be better, the campaign will be better, the gameplay will be better.

With this in mind, it only makes sense to skip SH5, and wait for SH6 to come out. I'm sure it will be much better than SH5.

And this way, we can donate all that money that we would have spent on SH5 to Neal. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

Razark

Contact

08-21-09, 11:45 AM

I agree completely, but I will take this further. I know that they will release a game that contains bugs, even if they learned from previous problems and try to make the released version as bug-free as possible. There will be bugs in any program.

Also, the game will be an advancement over SH3 and SH4. But not as advanced as it could be. The developers will apply what they learn to SH6.

SH6 will be much better than SH5. The graphics will be better, the campaign will be better, the gameplay will be better.

With this in mind, it only makes sense to skip SH5, and wait for SH6 to come out. I'm sure it will be much better than SH5.

Razark

You can think the same way about SH7, SH8 and so on. What gives ? you can skip your whole life waiting for a best of the best that will not going to happen if you'll continue to think like that :)

razark

08-21-09, 11:52 AM

You can think the same way about SH7, SH8 and so on. What gives ? you can skip your whole life waiting for a best of the best that will not going to happen if you'll continue to think like that :)

You got my point, while completely missing my point.

If we all skip buying SH5, there will never be a 7 or 8, much less a 6.

Munchausen

08-21-09, 11:55 AM

Let's see: $50 divided over 2.5 years I've played SH4, that's 913 days is about a nickel a day. I'd say that is a pretty reasonable price....

:-? Every upgrade I've made to my computer, I've made so it could run the latest incarnation of Silent Hunter. After viewing the trailer, it's quite evident I'll need to upgrade again. So, for me, the price isn't just the price of the simulation. It also includes the price of new computer components.

Kloef

08-21-09, 11:56 AM

I will probably buy it in the U.K online somewhere...i dont want to support the national artists rights protection here that basically takes 50% of the profits because their so called registered 'artists' are basically non-talented people that cant make money on their own,i want the profit to go to Ubisoft and it will save me money..

Even blank dvd's have an extra tax because they think everybody uses them for illigal software and music/movies..and they do:rotfl:except yours truly offcourse..:oops:

Myxale

08-21-09, 11:56 AM

Solid Post mate!:up:

Contact

08-21-09, 11:58 AM

You got my point, while completely missing my point.

If we all skip buying SH5, there will never be a 7 or 8, much less a 6.

Now you have totaly confused me, so now you say you want to buy sh5 ? :DL

ETR3(SS)

08-21-09, 12:02 PM

Ubi devs visit this forum and other sites associated with our community and they listen.
I personally have no doubt that they do. However, the problem doesn't lie with the devs. The problem lies with the bean counters. Somebody has on their sig here that "all devs need to make a good game is time." When a potentially good game gets shipped too early that will have a negative impact on the companies reputation. Look at EA for example.

goldorak

08-21-09, 12:17 PM

Hi Guys,

We're now on a 7 month run up to the release of the game. I believe that the game is scheduled to release in Australia on march 20 2010. If Ubisoft follows in the same footsteps as SH3 and SH4, that will put the European/US release of SH5 within a week of that date.

The pattern that usually emerges on this forum on the lead up to the release of a new version of Silent Hunter, is a mixture of excitement, anticipation and frustration, as people are seeking answers to questions relating to issues such as what technical specs will be required in order to run the game.

I think Silent Hunter 5 looks like an exciting new venture for us sub simmers, and I thank Dan and his team for all the hard work they have put into this new game. We have to look to history though and understand that it is highly likely that this game will be released in an unfinished state, and that it will require significant patching for 6 to 9 months after its release.

So let's accept now that the game will be playable when it's released, but it won't be a truly great sim until it's fully patched and the modders have got to grips with it.

I say all this because we don't want a whole load of bitching and moaning and people stating that Ubisoft sucks and they want to sue the company etc. We've seen and heard it all before and it's very boring.

While the vast majority of members here will understandably pre-order the game, hopefully from Subsim so that our forum benefits from the sales, I have made the choice to wait and purchase the game about 9 months after its release. There will only be a handful of people who do this, and in my case, I just don't want to go through the whole process of installing and uninstalling mods as each new patch is released. Been there, done that. Very boring.

I will purchase the game at the end of 2010. The difference between what I pay for it at that time and the $49.99 retail price I will donate to subsim. I will then patch it once, mod it once and then enjoy it.

Let's initiate a 'Contract Of Common Sense' though. We all know the pattern of how this will play out between now and December 2010, when the sim will probably have achieved the status of being the best sub sim of all time.

Let's celebrate what the game will undoubtedly become, and not moan and complain about every little thing we don't like in the meantime. :)

TDK1044 you come across as a very obnoxious man.
Whats your mission in life, to squash any critic of SH 5 ?
When a person spends his hard earned money on a product he is entitled to express his opinion on the game he just bought wether its good or bad and not you nor anybody else has a right to silence him.

TDK1044

08-21-09, 12:21 PM

But...but...but...

I agree wholeheartedly. I didn't preorder SH3, but I bought it the soon after release even though it was more than a month before I had a computer that could run it. I bought SH4 a little late, mainly because I was homeless at the time and had no money. As soon as I had the money I bought it and put it in my storage space with my computer. My old PC still doesn't run it well, but I play it anyway on minimum settings and live with it.

I'll preorder SH5, and if money is tight I'll buy it as soon as I can. Even if it's flawed, it's still looking like something new and different, and worth having. Hopefully it won't be too flawed, and will be working properly within a patch or two. Whatever happens, I'm in, if for no other reason than to selfishly say that I was there.

Steve, in many ways you are the moral compass of this forum. All of your posts come from a fair and honest perspective. You're a credit to subsim. If money is tight when the game can be pre-ordered, let me know. I'll happily purchase one for you and mail it to you. :)

Sub Commander

08-21-09, 12:24 PM

Be happy about them making a 5th installement, and I suck at putting all those files in the correct folders, allthough vista isn't much of a help either. So I hope Ubi makes it a bit good so I dont need to download all those mods with whom I cant do anything. I hope they got German Voices otherwise Ill buy the German localized version which I hope is German anyway. But Ill try to order the Special Edition if theres one, but again if they dont put a german option in there, then their blind

Sailor Steve

08-21-09, 12:27 PM

TDK1044 you come across as a very obnoxious man.
Whats your mission in life, to squash any critic of SH 5 ?
When a person spends his hard earned money on a product he is entitled to express his opinion on the game he just bought wether its good or bad and not you nor anybody else has a right to silence him.
I didn't take him that way at all. His argument isn't with people who make legitimate complaints about something they have purchased. His argument is with the people who start screaming and moaning about how awful the game is going to be the minute they see the first trailer. His argument is with the people who don't make legitimate complaints about the problems once the game is released, but scream and moan about how the company sucks, and we've all been cheated, and how long are we going to let them get away with this criminal behavior?

I'm with him. There will be plenty of time to discuss the good and the bad once we've seen it, but this crying about how bad it's going to be based on one early video is useless at best, demeaning at worst.

razark

08-21-09, 12:30 PM

Now you have totaly confused me, so now you say you want to buy sh5 ? :DL

My first post was satire. Sorry if I was too confusing. My point is that if we don't support the series, the series will die. If the sales for SH5 are not strong, SH6 will never be produced. If sales for SH5 are not strong enough, patches will not be produced. The company will find other things for developers to do instead of supporting a game that nobody is buying.

Therefore, it is in our interests to purchase SH5, even if it is not as great as it could be. Personally, my interest lies in the Pacific with the fleet boats, but I enjoy WWII submarine warfare. I'll play a German u-boat simulation if it's done well enough. If SH5 doesn't do well enough to support future developments, I'll never see the series return to the Pacific.

Razark

Sailor Steve

08-21-09, 12:33 PM

Excellent points, and well made!:rock:

TDK1044

08-21-09, 12:35 PM

I didn't take him that way at all. His argument isn't with people who make legitimate complaints about something they have purchased. His argument is with the people who start screaming and moaning about how awful the game is going to be the minute they see the first trailer. His argument is with the people who don't make legitimate complaints about the problems once the game is released, but scream and moan about how the company sucks, and we've all been cheated, and how long are we going to let them get away with this criminal behavior?

I'm with him. There will be plenty of time to discuss the good and the bad once we've seen it, but this crying about how bad it's going to be based on one early video is useless at best, demeaning at worst.

Exactly. :)

Contact

08-21-09, 12:40 PM

My first post was satire. Sorry if I was too confusing. My point is that if we don't support the series, the series will die. If the sales for SH5 are not strong, SH6 will never be produced. If sales for SH5 are not strong enough, patches will not be produced. The company will find other things for developers to do instead of supporting a game that nobody is buying.

Therefore, it is in our interests to purchase SH5, even if it is not as great as it could be. Personally, my interest lies in the Pacific with the fleet boats, but I enjoy WWII submarine warfare. I'll play a German u-boat simulation if it's done well enough. If SH5 doesn't do well enough to support future developments, I'll never see the series return to the Pacific.

Razark

Roger that :) That's some strategic thinking :up:

Grey_Raven75

08-21-09, 12:51 PM

There's something else to think about here. It'll certainly send a message to Ubi if no one buys when the game comes out, but I think it may be the wrong message. As far as the number crunchers are concerned, low sales on a games release probably equals: "well, no more games like that." IE there's no market.

Now, obviously that's not the message we'd want to send. The devs probably read these forums, that's who we think we're sending a message to. But it's not their decision when a game ships. I'm sure they don't want to ship a buggy game.

We should just be careful that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot by not buying when the game ships.

ETR3(SS)

08-21-09, 12:57 PM

I personally have no doubt that they do. However, the problem doesn't lie with the devs. The problem lies with the bean counters. Somebody has on their sig here that "all devs need to make a good game is time." When a potentially good game gets shipped too early that will have a negative impact on the companies reputation. Look at EA for example.

There's something else to think about here. It'll certainly send a message to Ubi if no one buys when the game comes out, but I think it may be the wrong message. As far as the number crunchers are concerned, low sales on a games release probably equals: "well, no more games like that." IE there's no market.

Now, obviously that's not the message we'd want to send. The devs probably read these forums, that's who we think we're sending a message to. But it's not their decision when a game ships. I'm sure they don't want to ship a buggy game.

We should just be careful that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot by not buying when the game ships.
:damn::damn::damn:

TDK1044

08-21-09, 12:58 PM

TDK1044 you come across as a very obnoxious man.
Whats your mission in life, to squash any critic of SH 5 ?
When a person spends his hard earned money on a product he is entitled to express his opinion on the game he just bought wether its good or bad and not you nor anybody else has a right to silence him.

You'll find if you read other posts of mine, goldorak, that I frequently offer constructive criticism of Ubisoft as a Publisher, while vigorously defending the Ubisoft Devs.

Ubisoft has a reputation of producing games in both the PC and console formats that are playable but not yet complete. Last year they went on the record admitting that they had quality control issues that needed to be addressed. I hope they address them. They need to.

There's a fine line to draw here though. In the case of the Silent Hunter series, the profit margin for Ubisoft is not that great, and to needlessly hammer away at the only company producing subsims would seem to me to be counter productive.

narco1966

08-21-09, 01:01 PM

lets remember how technical this new version will be and be patient for when the modding and patching has been done the thrill of a good sim will be present ,no the best sim will be with us and i for one am waiting in the dark depths only to surface and get my copy and submerge again . On a serious note i hope there is some historical stuff with it as well .GWX is still tops as far as im concerned,and i thank everyone for that :arrgh!:.Anything better will seem like nothing else you will ever "play".

DrCR

08-21-09, 01:26 PM

I sure hope Ubisoft the publisher heeds the counsel of the devs for this game. To say one of the last Ubisoft games I played was a disappointment would be an understatement - FC2. And then here was Lomac...

I tend to take the poor college student approach anyway though and wait to buy a game until I can get it for $10 shipped on ebay. For example I got COD4 only a few weeks ago and lurking ebay for SH3 at the moment. FC2 was a painful exception.

FIREWALL

08-21-09, 01:27 PM

Now you have totaly confused me, so now you say you want to buy sh5 ? :DL

Me TOO! I'm glad his way of makeing a POINT isn't used in the Nail and Needle industry. :haha:

Greyghost

08-21-09, 02:08 PM

I am extremely happy that Ubi has decided to give Silent Hunter another go and really love the fact it's U-boats again. ShIII no longer works on my rig since I am running Vista. I will be purchasing this one out of the gate just as I did all previous releases. I am really looking forward to this one. :D

Iron Budokan

08-21-09, 02:08 PM

Dunno about the rest of you guys. But I'm buying a copy as soon as I can. And I'm planning to buy it through SubSim.

AVGWarhawk

08-21-09, 02:13 PM

Dunno about the rest of you guys. But I'm buying a copy as soon as I can. And I'm planning to buy it through SubSim.

Now there is a trooper:salute:

longam

08-21-09, 02:58 PM

http://www.longam.net/sh4/mycopy.jpg

FIREWALL

08-21-09, 03:03 PM

http://www.longam.net/sh4/mycopy.jpg

!!! ooT eM :DL

InFlames666

08-21-09, 03:13 PM

razark

08-21-09, 03:23 PM

thats why i'm going to buy it right when she hit the stores, i'm fine with a few bugs here and there, i'll just have to help get rid of them

As long as there are no major problems, I don't have an issue with an occasional bug. It is in Ubisoft's interest to provide a well tested product.

Shearwater

08-21-09, 03:40 PM

I won't pre-order the game right away, for two reasons.
First, I want to have some reviews in adance. Granted, SH3 has been as great as expected (or even better), and though I've never played SH4, it was also a great game on its release, despite all the flaws. I just pride myself on healthy skepticism :DL

What I also want to know in advance, and it's been mentioned a couple of times: Hardware specs. The game looks like it'll use some version of the SH4 engine, but I'll just wait and see. Though it's true that Ubi Soft is the only company around that still makes subsim games, I won't buy a game just to shelve it until I buy a new computer, which could be years. To me the increase in hardware requirements during the six or seven years has been almost nauseating, and it's something devs really should give a bit more consideration.

On the major points though, I'd agree with TDK1044, so that's enough for now. It's just that there's no place for bitching like the internet ;)

Rosencrantz

08-21-09, 04:19 PM

With SH4 I did just what Neal recommended; bought the game right on release, and then put it in the self for a while. I have been myself whining about unfinished products some times, but on the other hand, who can expect to find a company which is capable to offer it's customers 99,5 % finished sub simlation on reasonable price? Sure, Navies and Armies have their combat simulators, but think the price they have paid for them... That's why I think every sub sim needs and will need especially two things to stay alive: the company (as builder) and modders (as people who'll get the job finished).

Greetings,
-RC-

DJSatane

08-21-09, 05:46 PM

So we supposed to just accept ubi suckage as far as products at release? Ok I will.

Now, lets hope this time around they actually fix multiplayer. Noone fixed sh3 multiplayer bugs, not developers or modders even at this time, there is huge damage server-client bug.

I hope SH5 will concentrate to have better polished multiplayer experience.

People here expect that modders will finish the game, unfortunately without source code modders cannot fix critical multiplayer bugs, this is why till this day sh3 is broken.

pythos

08-21-09, 07:05 PM

I sinscerely hope that the devs are more involved with the release, and the suits remain relatively silent.

I also hope they make a good damage model for the sub that allows bottoming out, good sound effects like the hull compression as the boat goes deeper, good crew management that removes crew from the upper decks and bridge when the boat dives.

Something like a mix of what Sh3 and Sh4 had as far as crew management is concerned. No superdudes either, that idea did not set well with many here.

On the more picky aspects, I want farewell, and welcome bands when headed out and returning from patrols.

I would also want wolf packs.

But I also hope that the game is more moddable than sh4. I don't like how much like paper airplanes my patrol planes were compared to the allied planes attacking my boat.

This new sim looks great, and I will buy it (funds permitting) when it comes out. I want to support this hobby of mine.

SteamWake

08-21-09, 07:54 PM

I posted in this thread... its on record :salute:

karamazovnew

08-21-09, 09:38 PM

Everybody wants wolfpacks :damn:. Do you even realize what a wolfpack means in a GAME?! THe germans had at times less than 20 boats covering the atlantic, so everytime one encountered a convoy, all gathered on that route to nibble at their shins. Having 5-10 submerged subs in a 20 mile radius would've been suicide for a lot of reasons. We don't want wolfpacks, we just don't want to feel that we're alone there. Dynamic communications and reports, radio messages from other boats and from the sinking ships, orders that make sense from BdU, weather reports from the entire ocean, that's what wolpacks were all about :damn:.

Where was I? Oh yea, endorsement. Well, I just hope they'll release a nice Collector's Edition because I've already saved about 100 bucks for it. I'm gonna preorder it as soon as it's available for preorder :yeah:. Heck, I'll pay the guy that can knock me out untill then, I can't wait!

Contact

08-22-09, 12:46 AM

cgjimeneza

08-22-09, 07:26 AM

From Amazon via subsim..... but a bit latter, do you have any idea what %%% of my salary a brand new game is? this is the 3rd world.

or maybe a new job. :)

I have invested a bit to build my new PC (still building it) and yes, we just dont buy a game, but rebuild our main PCs for it

but the investment is worth the expenditure.

so yes, count me in, after all, I have the 4 previous ones!

a cheer for Ubi for showing some commitment to the fan base

EDIT: hey UBI... make the pacific for no. 6 will ya?

IanC

08-22-09, 08:36 AM

This is a little tricky, because the message alot of you are sending is; Thank you for making a SH5 and I will pre-order it no matter what it's like. On one hand this is a very encouraging message to the devs, but on the other... Something in the back of my mind thinks this might not be the best idea. I'm not sure...
Anyways here's my message to Ubi; I really want to encourage the SH series, but I will not (cannot!) buy SH5 if wolfpacks and dynamic radio communications are missing (yes I know, those two things again! But they make all the difference for immersion and they're hardcoded and can't be modded).
Besides, I'm too poor to dish out 60$ on a game that I would consider incomplete/missing key features.

karamazovnew

08-22-09, 09:19 AM

I would give my vote this time for inclussion of more real things in the game rather than just useless radio messages for immersion factor.
And random wolfpacks formations are a must, but of course it would be up to you to decide join the hunt or no.

I don't think I made myself clear :O:. In SH3 for example you get many hystoric SOS messages from "sinking" ships and reports from "other" uboats. If you recieve an SOS from a ship that's one mile away and you look around and see nothing, or recieve a bad weather report in your area and the sun is shining over calm waters, these are not immersive, but almost a painfull reminder that you're completely alone. If they do include other uboats the best way you'd know about it would be "real" reports from them and SOS messages form their victims.

You'd pass sinking ships or find lifeboats in the middle of the ocean, you'd see their actions, so each radio report will be a reminder that you're not alone. You'd join their convoy hunts and try to coordinate your attacks with them, cheer for each hit, cringe while you hear DC blow up in the distance. But even so you might never see them, at least not as in a tight Delta Formation, shooting all torpedoes at the same time, like in any bad Top Gun movie.

sunvalleyslim

08-22-09, 10:12 AM

GO SH5 !!!!......will order thru SubSim ASAP......"Silent Hunter"......keeping me happy for 6 years.....:up::up::up:

banjo

08-22-09, 10:27 AM

I am happy to buy the game when released--my problem is I've not been able to purchase thru Subsim (or Ubisoft for that matter). That 2d2 site or whatever it is, will not recognize either of my email addresses (Juno and Yahoo) and will not allow my credit card. I know from posts that this happened to others also. I have no idea what the deal was (I purchase online routinely) but I hope it has changed. As a long time supporter of Subsim I'd prefer to buy here iff possible.

martes86

08-22-09, 10:52 AM

[...] but it is crucial to the survival of the submarine simulation genre that SH5 is a commercial success out of the gate. I endorse buying the game on release as long as Ubisoft is clearly trying to make the best subsim possible. Buy the game, keep the pressure on the suits at Ubi to support the Romanians in touching up any flaws.

I couldn't agree more, and that's what we always try to encourage at the 24th, precisely with the life of the genre in mind, as we know that this might be the last sim we get if we don't do it right. That's also the reason why we deny support to anyone having a pirated copy, and why some people decide to buy not one, but several copies of the sims, which also allows to people in South America to get it since retail problems and ultra-high local costs makes it hard for them to get legit copies and so, some buddies offer themselves to send these folks a copy via international post.
Me, I'll buy it on the same day it comes out, right after I check out at work... that is, if it makes it into the alloted release time and we don't get any delays, like what happened with SH4.

Cheers

TDK1044

08-22-09, 02:37 PM

XLjedi

08-22-09, 04:45 PM

On the one hand, yes; I'll buy it on release day just as I did with SH4 to show my support for the genre.

On the other hand, if it's expected (as it should by now) that the modders will have to improve and/or fix the game after a half-baked release then they better darn well provide a more modder friendly game and an SDK. If they don't then they can still have my money... but they'll also get my grief.

geosub1978

08-22-09, 05:09 PM

No matter what our expectations are and no matter when someone will buy the game, Ubi is obligated to sell a game 100% ready.

Just imagine that there are people who don't belong to this forum and they still play vanilla SH3 without even 1.4b (I know at least one...).

So our pressure has to be directed to the way of having SH5 ready in every aspect even with sacrificing days and months of the releasing date. This later will give some great mods which will enhance the game (SH3) and they will not make it just playable (SH4).

There is no reason to make Ubi convenient that no matter when they release the game they can take their time until they produce the last patch or until HanSolo or GWXteam, or I don't know who else, will make the game playable.

SH3 is the good example. It was 99% ready as vanilla and I enjoyed it. (first patch some 20mb)

SH4 is the bad example. They hurried to catch up the time thus the first patch(120+mb) was released before the game itself :down:

So there is no reason to invent the circle once more. My opinion is that they should take their time, they know what people want, they have to do it and release it when they are really ready.

I will buy SH5 the first day.

Kresge

08-22-09, 05:09 PM

I think there needs to be some serious beta testing and reviews of the full game before release to ensure that SH5 is in working order if we're expected to put our money out there in support of Ubi and Sh5. If we all run out and buy another unfinished package we've just encouraged them to produce more crap.

I have faith in the dev team, but as in any business, you need to back up your product. We can't expect unpaid modders to volunteer their valuable time to fix problems in a commercial product. Their only aim should be to add something fun or increase the value to the community of subsimmers.

Sure, I'll be buying it at release, but if they screw us again we need to screw them next time. SH2 was understandable in that the development was stalled numerous times as it was traded between companies. Development has been consistently with Ubi for 3-5, so it needs ot be an improvement, not just another version of the same theme.

CaptainHaplo

08-22-09, 05:53 PM

Kresge - "Screw us again"??????

What are you talking about man?

SH3 and SH4 are both solid, stable and highly enjoyable games.

Plus they are moddable to some degree (though I would like to see SH5 be even more accessible).

Sure they came out with bugs. Name one game released nowadays that doesnt.

If they released a buggy game and refused to support it - then I would agree with your "again" comment. But on the contrary, UBI as a publisher and the Devs themselves have shown a commitment to fix the bugs that existed. I can understand if you don't like v1.0 builds. Fair enough - wait till its patched to a level you can accept. But the fact that its patched and supported as well as both SH3 and SH4 have been demonstrates your comment lacks an understanding of both the complexity of such software, and the limitations of the business market.

Goldorak - Perhaps you didn't read the OP. Yes you have a right to grump IF and WHEN you put down your hard earned money and the product fails to deliver. However, the post was targetted to stopping the PRERELEASE whining and complaining by those who don't have their hands on anything but what to fuss about things they lack first hand knowledge of. Until you or any other person slaps down their cash for the game and can play it, all the complaining your doing is based off of what you "THINK" the game "MIGHT" be, and thus is counterproductive.

No one here has ever said you can't complain about something, but at least be mature enough to only complain about what you KNOW and have PAID for.

*****************************************

Now - with that out of the way, any chance Subsim could gather questions for the devs and see what questions we can get answered?

Apparently the campaign is semi-dynamic - in that your actions have real impact. However, does that mean that you can turn the tide of the war? Are you locked into historical endings? Would there be a switch to allow for either a static "dynamic" campaign as in sh3/4 or a true "change the war" as the player sees fit?

Will SH5 feature the Staff abilities found in 1.5? Will it be more fully fleshed, with a "Command AI" on both sides that could control and oversea the war, using the player initially as simply another boat, while increases in rank gain the player higher freedom of action or larger input on the HQ?

Will the AI, aircraft, ship, sensor and weapon data be more accessible for modding?

Will SH5 impliment realistic sinkings out of the box - bouyancy vs a pure "hitpoint" system?

Will keelbreaking magnetic shots be modeled accurately? *Modders got close, but another out of the box function?

Milch Cows and Wolfpacks?

Truly "unique" ships that don't continue to spawn?

Optional realistic crew and captain rotations?

rascal101

08-22-09, 06:12 PM

I tend towards Neal's comments below - I'd rather continue to see developers work on games ideas because they have an idea the game will work, and will get a decent return upon release to pay the folks who worked on it to develop the thing.

Having been a gamer since the early 80s, it seems the general rule is publish then mod, to tweak the game to a stage where it mostly works for mostly every one after release. For those of us used to buying things finished in the box, that may come across as a bit much, or not right, but think about it, with the plethora of different hardware and software configurations out there, how else could it be.

However, to be fair - I can only ask that from the developer’s side they take more notice of the wishes of the purchasing public who may, during the course of development come up with ideas, concepts or issues that could well improve the game far and ahead of what the developers originally intended.

I remember that originally the SH3 dev's were going for a scripted career as opposed to dynamic and that when this became known there was such an uproar in this community that eventually they went for a dynamic career instead.

This one decision meant that SH3 became a game that is played and loved years after its original release, as opposed to a game that was shelved within 2-6 months of release.

So to Neal - who was so good at keeping us informed during SH3's development, I would ask that you, or the developers, or both produce a developer diary as soon as possible.

Sure it will inevitably be filled with a lot of useless, or off-topic crap - but at the same time such a diary would allow a really useful exchange of ideas from the dev team and from the community who will eventually purchase the game.

When the game is released I'll be first in line to buy my copy, and I will no doubt thrill at the new features when I get it home and get past installation. Then I w'll play the game somemore and be annoyed by the usual bugs and issues, and then I'll wait for the eventual patch, (or patches) that I know will be on the way.

Any then I will play the game some more while scanning the horizon for any mods that will make the game even more engaging.

Such is life - I cant wait, and if I'm still playing SH5 in 2015 then that will be a vallid tribute to the devs and modders who worked to make the game an ongoing experience.

I appreciate that, but I would prefer that you buy the game when it is released and put it on the shelf until the time you feel it is patched and ready to play. Subsim can always use donation, but it is crucial to the survival of the submarine simulation genre that SH5 is a commercial success out of the gate. I endorse buying the game on release as long as Ubisoft is clearly trying to make the best subsim possible. Buy the game, keep the pressure on the suits at Ubi to support the Romanians in touching up any flaws.

I do not give a game--even a subsim--a blank endorsement check. As I said, I endorse buying a game on release to support the genre as long as Ubisoft is clearly trying to make the best subsim possible. SH2 was not a tremendous game, but I knew from months of working with the dev team that they meant to overcome so many obstacles and make it as good as possible. I threw my full support behind SH2, even though it was not the game we all wanted. It was, however, successful, and responsible for keeping the flame alive.

SH3 was a great game. SH4 was a good game that Ubisoft released too early. I was not as involved with SH4 as I was with SH2 and 3, so I cannot vouch for Ubisoft there. The marketing was bureaucratic and not very responsive, I was not "in the loop" much, and I think that was because they knew the game was not ready. If the same situation plays through with SH5, I may agree with the wait and see attitude. Being an optimist, I think Ubi will not make the same mistakes with SH5.

best
Neal

RickC Sniper

08-22-09, 07:00 PM

I am a realist. I don't expect a perfect product right out the door. I don't think I've ever seen one. I DO however, see a track record from the Romanian team that tells me they'll give us the best product they are able to under the usual constraints placed on them by Ubisoft.

Besides, a decent subsim is something I'd buy over any other games anyway. Sh3 and sh4 were well deserving of my $$ and i expect sh5 should be as well.

Sh5 looks like it will be a bit of a different experience, and frankly I am ready for something like that.

KG_Jag

08-22-09, 07:14 PM

I am way too old and experienced to buy a pig in a poke.

Here's hoping SH 5 is well done and a big success. Still I will not buy a game simply because it is called SH [insert number here]. Not only may you be disappointed, but telling a company in advance that you will buy a product no matter what can reward bad/undesirable to you behavior. Quality of the game is important. What the game is and is not are important. The DRM used is important. I don't want to reward a gaming house and its developer with my purchase dollars for making something I don't want.

An example of blind pre-ordering of a game based on a name and company reputation (at the time) that left a very bad taste in many mouths occurred two years ago when Battlefront released Combat Mission Shock Force (the first--and still only) game using their then brand new CM x 2 game engine. All CM x 1 engine games were well done and playable only in WeGo. But when CMSF came out it was a buggy incomplete piece of crap. Further, it had been designed as a single player RT game--with WeGo bolted on and largely untested.

I'll wait and see; read the reviews--especially those from real gamers; and hope for the best, but with a realistic eye.

theluckyone17

08-22-09, 08:50 PM

Ubi Dev's: We/I love you. Keep doin' what you're doing.

Ubi Marketing Suits: Give the dev's enough time to do what they need to do.

I hereby promise not to whine before SH5 is released. Assuming everybody follows the above, I won't need to whine afterwards :D.

Personally, I'd love to see some sort of preorder... send my money in, support the dev's, and don't worry about when it's released, just worry about the condition it's in when it's released.

Oberst Oswald

08-22-09, 09:09 PM

I'm buying the game as soon as it comes out...maybe two... for my 80 year old father (his birthday is in March)

gdogghenrikson

08-22-09, 11:07 PM

I promise to play SH5 if ubisoft promises not use starforce and make the game vista 64 bit compatible!

Highbury

08-23-09, 02:58 AM

There are few games I have spent more time on then the Silent Hunter series, and few forums I spend more time on then Subsim. I will be purchasing it from here on the first day it becomes available.

CaptainHaplo

08-23-09, 01:36 PM

Ohhh... Another interesting question...

Will the code be optimized for multicore processors?

TDK1044

08-23-09, 05:46 PM

There are few games I have spent more time on then the Silent Hunter series, and few forums I spend more time on then Subsim. I will be purchasing it from here on the first day it becomes available.

Excellent post. :up:

U-96

08-23-09, 07:01 PM

I for one second the call for common sense. However I lack the patience to wait so long. Not only that but such games become hard to find a few months after release.

I have learned to give UbiSoft a leap of faith, SH4 was not finished upon release but at least they did work to patch it well enough to make it a worthy sim. I do pray that they've learned the lessons of SH4 and be a little more patient with their release date in order to give a complete game, At least put together well enough for loyal Subsimmers such as us to enjoy enough to make the wait for subsequent patches very bareable.

However the need for a commercial success with SH5 cannot be denied, And I for one will pre-order via subsim and worst case scenario will shelf it until it is patched properly, I'll still have the game ready until said patch arrives. However I am quite confident that the game will be enjoyable enough until then. Let us not forget what the point of games, yes even detailed simulations, are. To have fun, If I'm able to have fun Playing SH5 then the asking price for the title will be quite justified, and any subsequent patch will be gravy from that point on.

Unlike most game companies, UbiSoft at the very least tends to listen to fans and do try to correct mistakes. The responsibility is not solely on them, It's shared by all of us to have patience, to be constructive, and most of all, to enjoy the experience. SH2 was a disappointing installment, but great efforts were made to salvage the game and make it enjoyable. The result was SH3 which blew most of us away. I believe our patience and support will reward us in kind with a lovely experience with SH5. They already have a foundation to work on from SH3 with it's large success and universal praise. Ubisoft can't claim ignorance with what the masses want. I have faith that they'll use that knowledge constructively.

Silent Hunter 5 will be fun, Even if it's not perfect upon release. That's good enough to tide me over until the patches are released.

oscar19681

08-23-09, 07:43 PM

oki read the post and i respect it for what it is. But why did this have to put on the subsim main page?? I thought there were some juicy screenshots or a good review! Please Neal only post the good stuff!!!!!

XLjedi

08-23-09, 08:07 PM

Elder-Pirate

08-23-09, 09:17 PM

I see only one bug in this game. Watch the trailer one more time. The cook...he is thin....I do not eat were the cook is thin. Get this changed to a fat jolly old fellow. ;)

Well this one is not fat but I sure hope they don't put this guy on our U-Boats. :o
Watching hin chop away he may add a thumb to the food. :arrgh!:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/kookie.gif

dbf574

08-23-09, 10:22 PM

That's a deal, Neal. I'll buy it up front through subsim. I'm just "patchaphobic" now after SH3 and SH4. :) I think SH5 will be fantastic once finished though.

Though not as bad, I fully agree:rock:

MaciejK

08-24-09, 12:14 AM

i am going to get this game on the day of it's release, if possible via preorder. But if it has some serious bugs, plus some ridiculous resolution problems or other simly STUPID bugs, I will whine. If it is free from those - I will not, I will praise it. Simple as that. As I do not know what will come out of it - no reason to bitch about it. I'm very happy that UBI is continuing the series, and I'm hoping for a great game. The devs could use some ideas from the GWX IMHO...

Where can I preorder SH5? ;)

Onkel Neal

08-24-09, 12:20 AM

Sonarman

08-24-09, 07:18 AM

TDK1044

08-24-09, 07:25 AM

some hopeful signs and words of encouragement form ubi ceo yves gulliemot in a recent interview with gamesindustry.biz...

"that's why we believe it's time to invest, because it's the right time to continue to expand the brands we're creating, and to make better games. Because we wanted to come here this year with another level of quality.

on some products last year we were not as happy as we wanted, so this time we've been investing more to make sure that everybody will be happy with the games that we launch."

yes we can!!!!!!!

Jaeger

08-25-09, 12:21 PM

Some hopeful signs and words of encouragement form Ubi CEO Yves Gulliemot in a recent interview with GamesIndustry.biz...

"That's why we believe it's time to invest, because it's the right time to continue to expand the brands we're creating, and to make better games. Because we wanted to come here this year with another level of quality.

On some products last year we were not as happy as we wanted, so this time we've been investing more to make sure that everybody will be happy with the games that we launch."

somewhere here in the forum somebody linked an article about ubi. there i read ubi hired lots of new people for their team in bucharest. for me, this and the info above sounds like we can expect a new level of quality from ubi this time. they also hired beta testers, so we wont see as much bugs as we did last time...

mookiemookie

08-25-09, 12:56 PM

Why hire bug testers? You've got a whole forum full of them here who would gladly work for free just to get an early glimpse of SH5. :03:

Schultz

08-25-09, 01:00 PM

But I can't understand why they didn't use Tomi's work , they could have finished earlier, and I know we have 2 members from Ubi Romania here ,1 is OctoberRed and the other I can't remember.

Jimbuna

08-25-09, 01:29 PM

But I can't understand why they didn't use Tomi's work , they could have finished earlier, and I know we have 2 members from Ubi Romania here ,1 is OctoberRed and the other I can't remember.

Elanaiba.....there are a couple more also :DL

ETR3(SS)

08-25-09, 01:32 PM

Go Go stickyed thread!

Schultz

08-25-09, 01:47 PM

Just this 2 members I know from Ubi Romania,but I'm just curious why they didn't use his work.

ETR3(SS)

08-25-09, 02:00 PM

I think somebody answered that in another thread. Basically they have to come up with a model that the guys running the Wal-Mart computer can handle. Tomi's is quite detailed. And It could be possible to that they started work on it before Tomi did.

Raven08

08-26-09, 01:44 PM

I agree with a lot of what's been said, and against my better sense I will likely get SHV shortly after its release, again, my curiosity won't have otherwise. But if it turns out to be another half-finished, half-hearted mess that requires six months to a year to patch and mod...my long affair with these sub simulations will draw to a quiet close. For good.

There is a line between being 'loyal' and being taken advantage of. Repeatedly.

Neal I have trouble understanding on the one hand you say you aren't giving Ubi a blank check because they have a monopoly on this genre, but then state we should purchase their product immediately no matter what shape it's in.? I find that baffling.

In other words we should keep supporting Ubisoft, simply because they are the 'only game in town'.

I think you'll find that a lot of people after being burned the last decade with this franchise will have a hard time accepting that.

Elder-Pirate

08-26-09, 07:37 PM

Why hire bug testers? You've got a whole forum full of them here who would gladly work for free just to get an early glimpse of SH5. :03:

Someone talking about me again?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/Bugs-Bunny-hole.jpg

OH,Bug,not Bugs. Yuck. :-j

Highbury

08-26-09, 08:09 PM

Why hire bug testers? You've got a whole forum full of them here who would gladly work for free just to get an early glimpse of SH5. :03:

Having worked as an on-staff beta tester for a few games I would have to say that when you use the public to beta test you can expect useful feedback from no more then 20 - 30% of them, the rest are there to play a game early and have no idea how to work to make it better. They don't want to do the same redundant function hundreds of times over to try and replicate an error that only happened once.

I would much rather they have quality, paid testers.

Onkel Neal

08-26-09, 08:23 PM

That's the truth :yep:

mookiemookie

08-26-09, 08:51 PM

Onkel Neal

08-26-09, 08:58 PM

There is a line between being 'loyal' and being taken advantage of. Repeatedly.

I think you'll find that a lot of people after being burned the last decade with this franchise will have a hard time accepting that.

I understand your point, and in part, I agree.

We were "burned" by SH2, but I supported that game because I saw first hand how hard Troy Heere, Shawn Storc, and Ultimation worked on that game as it went through the maze of SSI/MattelInteractive/Gore/Ubisoft, near disasters and cancellations. They sent me betas to play test a YEAR before the game was released, so I had an insider's view of the heroic endeavor to finish the game before the plug was pulled. :yep: I wanted that game to be perfect, so did the team, but it was hobbled and that was no secret. Still, for me anyway, I said it was flawed in my review but I was glad to get it, and I strongly urged everyone to pony up and get a copy. Subsim is not Consumer Guide, we do have a bias.

Also, important to remember, SH2 was the sequel to SH1, and if it had died, there would not likely be another SH2 effort, just as there never was a sequel to Fast Attack, Silent Steel, or Aces of the Deep. And other than Silent Hunter...there have been no top tier U-boat sims since 1995... :hmmm:

SH3, I hope no one is going to say we were burned by that game :o

SH4, yes, I agree, that was a serious screwup by Ubisoft. We were burned (although as most of us anticipated, the Romanians pushed to get the fixes later). I do not know the reasons behind the premature release, by this time my relationship with Ubisoft was not as solid. The marketing dept had their hands on every detail and they dragged their feet on sending previews copies like they had something to hide, which we all know now, they did. I did not finish the review for the game until 2 weeks after it was released. It's was pretty obvious to me, that Ubi wanted to stall reviews as long as possible:

Silent Hunter 4 review (http://www.subsim.com/sh4/silent_hunter4.php)

There will always be bugs in games but Ubisoft pushed this title out too soon. Even discounting the minor glitches that do not affect gameplay, there are numerous bugs and missing features with the 1.0 version. SH4 did not get sufficient development time or QA testing, not by a long stretch. US subs at the start of WWII were sent to battle with ineffective torpedoes that ran deep or failed to explode, even exploded prematurely. It's ironic that SH4 skippers who set out to sink IJN ships in the first days since the war began, er, since the game was released, found their torpedoes frequently missing astern. Turns out there is a bug affecting the actual speed of torpedoes set at high speed. You may set the torpedo to high speed, the TDC thinks the torpedo is going to run at high speed and adjusts the solution accordingly, but the torpedo has other ideas and moseys along at low speed, missing the target and having SH4 skippers scratching their heads (and cursing, lots of cursing) with a taste of the frustration that real skippers must have felt. The devs have fixed this and normal operations will resume with patch 1.2 soon.

In addition to the torpedo speed bug, there are a few other notable glitches to list. The TDC locks when approaching a target in a certain fashion. Flooding damage control needs some adjustments. The SD aircraft radar picks up surface contacts. After patch v1.1, the A key invokes an immediate CTD. After a long patrol, the message clipboard will cause the game to pause for several seconds to 30 seconds while the game retrieves it. Also, some players have reported a chronic crew illness problem, where an injured crewmember slowly loses health until he dies.

I promise you, if this happens again with SH5, I will join you with a pitchfork. Even if it kills the franchise (we always have SH3 and GWX). The relationship between Ubisoft (or any game publisher) and Subsim has to be a two-way street of trust and cooperation. I know the Ubisoft marketing group have a job to do, but if the game is half-finished, that I cannot abide. Bonjourno! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KldfkE462Bk)

Neal I have trouble understanding on the one hand you say you aren't giving Ubi a blank check because they have a monopoly on this genre, but then state we should purchase their product immediately no matter what shape it's in.? I find that baffling.

Sorry, I probably didn't make myself clear, What I meant was, I support SH5 (and any subsim game) as long as I trust the game company to make a serious effort to vreate the best game possible, considering the current circumstances.

So, what I meant was, I support SH5, and if the game comes out after a reasonable dev time, and in reasonable condition*, I feel we as the hard core subsim enthusiasts should buy it on Day 1. We want it to succeed.

As I said before, a critical factor, for me, is having a good sense of how much effort went into making the game. I had a great sense with SH2 and SH3, with preview copies coming my way periodically. I knew there was sincere effort going into these two titles--one flawed, and one fabulous. I supported them. I cheered them. And I stand by that.

In the end, this is simply my opinion. I share it with you, I do not think you are obligated to agree. We both want the same thing: a great game. :salute:

Neal

.

*No game will ever be 100% bug free, but releasing a game 6 months too early is inexcusable.

Arclight

08-27-09, 01:52 AM

Having worked as an on-staff beta tester for a few games I would have to say that when you use the public to beta test you can expect useful feedback from no more then 20 - 30% of them, the rest are there to play a game early and have no idea how to work to make it better. They don't want to do the same redundant function hundreds of times over to try and replicate an error that only happened once.

I would much rather they have quality, paid testers.
Why not both? Internal, paid QA team to make sure mechanics work as intended, and a public beta to get a copy out to people with all kinds of different rigs. Imho would be a good way to find out about problems with specific hardware (combinations) early on. :hmmm:

Raven08

08-27-09, 04:43 AM

So, what I meant was, I support SH5, and if the game comes out after a reasonable dev time, and in reasonable condition*, I feel we as the hard core subsim enthusiasts should buy it on Day 1. We want it to succeed.

As I said before, a critical factor, for me, is having a good sense of how much effort went into making the game. I had a great sense with SH2 and SH3, with preview copies coming my way periodically. I knew there was sincere effort going into these two titles--one flawed, and one fabulous. I supported them. I cheered them. And I stand by that.

In the end, this is simply my opinion. I share it with you, I do not think you are obligated to agree. We both want the same thing: a great game. :salute:

Neal

.

*No game will ever be 100% bug free, but releasing a game 6 months too early is inexcusable.

Agree!:salute:

It seems we are in the unenviable position of catch-22 with the Silent Hunter series. If we don't support it, it will wither away. At the same time we definitely don't want to accept unfinished, untested product.

My main problem was the idea of Ubisoft kicking their code out the door, then 'expecting' the consumers to finish, test and polish the game through mods. That seems a little shady for me, that's all. :-? We're not the developers, they are.

I'm willing to give them one last shot, I will certainly try SHV...I've played these games a very long time, and these sub sims are the only ones I'm drawn back to time and again. They're something I don't want to see go way.

Let's hope for something better out of the box this time! :sunny:

~raven~

http://sevrinblacke.com/shIV/sig.jpg

Anachronous

08-27-09, 04:35 PM

I'd say most those whining people you are attempting to address in the OP, arent going to be visiting this forum until they feel the need to whine. :P

jtm55

08-27-09, 08:31 PM

Hi All

I like playing BF2,IL2 & CD4. I LOVE playing Silent Hunter. So I'll sign & I'll buy from SubSim ASAP.

ZiggyMon

08-27-09, 09:46 PM

As I've done with almost all sims since the dawn of time... or well close enough atleast, I'll buy SH V on release, I'll bitch to myself if it's not finished and then I'll snoop around SUBSIM and find out what I can get to make the experience even more gratifying. There is nothing more gratifying then playing a new sim that you've been looking forward to. And Ubisoft deserves all the credit for keeping the sub genre alive still.

onelifecrisis

08-27-09, 11:37 PM

Sorry but can someone explain to me why this thread is sticky?

Reece

08-28-09, 12:54 AM

Sorry but can someone explain to me why this thread is sticky?Just to annoy you OLC!!:haha: Sorry, couldn't resist!:D

onelifecrisis

08-28-09, 07:52 AM

Just to annoy you OLC!!:haha: Sorry, couldn't resist!:D

:O:

AVGWarhawk

08-28-09, 08:11 AM

Sorry but can someone explain to me why this thread is sticky?

It got glue on it during arts and crafts class. :smug:

Webster

08-28-09, 10:51 AM

Sorry but can someone explain to me why this thread is sticky?

i gave it some thought and decided to sticky it because of its high interest. other than neal's original sh5 announcement thread there is no other thread anywhere near as popular as this one so for that alone it deserves to be noticed.

sh5 will be at least a year untill its released and we have no real content for sh5 except speculation, opinion, and wish list threads.

some threads you might see stickied now are not what you are used to seeing as sticky threads on other forums but that is only because (no offense meant to anyone) there arent any real sh5 threads yet because we dont have a real sh5 game yet to talk about.

there will be a transition period when the game is released where the stickies will be reviewed and some threads like this one will most likely be unstickied when the game actually gets released.

Laufen zum Ziel

08-28-09, 12:56 PM

I think everyone is pretty much on the same page. We love the Devs. We acknowledge but are very cautious of the Ubisoft suits, and we understand that no game can be all things to all people.

Let's not give the Silent Hunter 5 moderators a needlessly hard time. Instead, let's be positive and constructively critical when necessary, and let's purchase the new game through our own forum, using the link that Neal will provide, and by doing so support subsim and the continued development of the Silent Hunter franchise. :)

Well said. Not much in life is perfect. What may be for one may not be for another. Positive feedback is not bitching as long as it is ment to inform in a positive way. I have faith in our modders to fix a lot if necessary. We should all give thanks that we have Sub simulations.

prowler3

08-29-09, 10:18 AM

Contact

08-30-09, 09:15 AM

"Buy it now or Ubi goes under"??? I'm not enabling Ubi or any other developer to release unfinished products by purchasing pre-release or initial release. Why reward them for what is unacceptable behavior in most other endeavours? :damn:

I'll buy it when it's right...and not a minute sooner.

Agreed.

I see no rush why should we act like crazy and buy it the first day of release. Knowing how frequently UBI likes to leave bunch of bugs in this genre of simulation, I'll go for saving my nerves and wait for a final patch and then buy it with pride rather then having omg, wtf game style due to various bugs that will deffinetly be. Sooner or later UBI will get their money back for their hard work anyway. If they do it the right way of course.

Captain von Keldunk

08-30-09, 09:24 AM

You can walk in first person in your sub, taste the soup, talk to crew,
What more you can ask.I will buy it when I see it in game stores .:):DL:D

martes86

08-30-09, 10:05 AM

I totally agree with Neal, word by word.

In my opinion, only a catastrofical bug cascade should stop you from buying the game. But if the game stands to what we're currently seeing, then we should show massive support. You don't know how important is in media (any kind of media) the first-day/week sells data. If there's a massive inmediate response, it would surely motivate further support to the franchise.

When we get some more ingame videos and pics, if it's good, I'll definitely buy it the day it's released, and surely encourage everyone to buy it too. I bought SH4 and didn't play it for weeks until I had a computer powerful enough. That way, I showed my support (though later proven that it was not very deserved), and I got my copy before stores ran out of stock (which usually happens in Spain with not-so-known titles quite fast, and when it happens, it's pretty hard to get a copy).

Get it and prove Ubi we're still very much alive as a community. In the end, they have to get it right one day after so much trial and error, don't you think? And I'd like to be there when that happens. :DL

Cheers :rock:

Buddahaid

08-30-09, 11:22 AM

I'll buy it simply because few other types of games will hold my interest, and I know that the bugs it will have will be fixed. I was, however, hoping for a WW2, worldwide, all Navy sim. Pick you theater and Navy, and start a career. Yeah it's a pipe dream. :shucks:

Buddahaid

ETR3(SS)

08-30-09, 12:19 PM

Someday Buddahaid, someday. It reminds me of C&C Tiberian Sun, where if you had the expansion you picked what game you wanted to play first then pick your side. So the idea is out there, it would make a SH game unbelievably huge in terms of disk space.

Arclight

08-30-09, 01:25 PM

Maybe take an approach similar to the DCS series: make a mudule that contains the engine, 1 playable boat and a campaign. Then develop more modules, adding in more and more playable models while refining and updating the engine. And perhaps make every module stand-alone so people who are only interested in 1 boat can have just that, while others will purchase each and every one.

Though it would need to have very high detail in each module to convince people it's worth it. :hmmm:

Nexus7

08-31-09, 06:40 AM

My point is that if we don't support the series, the series will die. If the sales for SH5 are not strong, SH6 will never be produced.

This is not the only possible result IMO.
Should SH5 not sell well enought, this *could* result in Ubisoft revolutioning the series, maybe stepping forward to cold war era ? Who knows...

If sales for SH5 are not strong enough, patches will not be produced.

This is the worst scenario to me. That has already happened... for example with Dangerous Waters!!!

Therefore, it is in our interests to purchase SH5, even if it is not as great as it could be. Personally, my interest lies in the Pacific with the fleet boats, but I enjoy WWII submarine warfare. I'll play a German u-boat simulation if it's done well enough. If SH5 doesn't do well enough to support future developments, I'll never see the series return to the Pacific.

Razark

The detailed likings of us, are most certainly to be seen as very fragmented... to make everyone happy there should be maybe 20 versions of SH5 ?

Btw, the theory where "if you don't support the producer doing an early buy the producer will go away" is true, but the power to change that is not in our hands. The enjoyability of the game will make it a success or a failure, not us "fanatics" do a pre-order. A game well done will publicize itself automatically (and the price won't lower that fast)
I did a pre order on Dangerous Waters in good part to substain the producer, and what did I get ? An unfinished game and the producer closing the door. Anyway, this is quite a different simulator, with a smaller size of potential buyers.

himlaviz

09-02-09, 08:23 AM

I want this to be a worthy SH3 sequel.
I want ubi/devteam to make money on this.
I want to feel that ubi/devteam support the product, post launch.
I want to look forward to content addons and patches.
I am willing to pay for content addons, like more subs, ships and features.

If they plan to release a content/feature addon by the end of 2010 I think it would benefit the sub community as we might help them fix and add more features to the game while the have a team still working on the simulation.

For a great product I would be happy to pay $10-20 more if that's what it need to get 3-6 more months of development/testing. But I think a release with a planed addon probably works best, at least for the community to have a chance for giving feedback to the devteam (if they want it).

Sometimes I get the feeling some want games to be half as expensive and done in half the time and work on hardware half as good as the previous game and have double the content as the previous product.

Gaming is a hobby, hobbies are fun, I don't mind spending $$ on my hobby.
But thats me, and I am probably a bit insane and brainwashed by 12 years of MMORPG's :D

Looking forward to Silent Hunter V and playing SH3+GWX3 until then. :)

ETR3(SS)

09-02-09, 10:58 AM

himlaviz

09-02-09, 11:03 AM

You sir are clearly brainwashed by MMO's. I was a MMO player myself until I realized I was paying $15 a month for crap. Which is probably why you are so willing to pay $70-$80 for a game. Quit playing MMO's, you will find life much more enjoyable, and you'll have more money to spend on important things...like beer.

I did spend more on beer, quit it for MMO's.
It's what you make out of it, $80 for a game you play for many hours sure has more value then a ****load of beer twice a weekend and you don't remember what you did anyway.

ETR3(SS)

09-02-09, 12:45 PM

himlaviz

09-02-09, 01:40 PM

I apologize for coming off as so...stern. Since I gave up MMO' I've seen them for what they really are and can be rather vocal about them. But you are right about that beer part, that's why you bring your friends along to remind you of how silly you were while drunk! :haha: But I still say $80 for a game is too much. Hell at times I think $60 is price gouging. $50 would be nice, especially when the value of the games depreciates so quickly.

No worries :)
Sometimes I do find the way to time consuming, that's for sure.
Well perhaps a bit much with $80 but if they released like new theaters, campaigns from time to time with small tweaks to the game engine I wouldn't mind put some $$ into it. Keep the game running for some time when this type of games takes a lot of time and resources to develop :)

Yankee

09-02-09, 04:16 PM

UBI, has me I'll buy this game when it comes out. No matter what it is, how good it is, or how meany patch's they will or will not make to the game. We will write here

Blacklight

09-02-09, 10:36 PM

I'll sign a contract about whining even through I'm not going to be purchasing the game (I can't even get SHIV to run on my computer without potentially melting it. SHIII is as good as I can go and even with that, I have to run it in a smaller window).
I won't whine, but i WILL say that software should NEVER be released in an "unfinished" state. Unfortunately, now, it's the status quo.

Brewtality

09-03-09, 02:48 AM

Hi Guys,
We have to look to history though and understand that it is highly likely that this game will be released in an unfinished state, and that it will require significant patching for 6 to 9 months after its release.

So let's accept now that the game will be playable when it's released, but it won't be a truly great sim until it's fully patched and the modders have got to grips with it.

I say all this because we don't want a whole load of people stating that Ubisoft sucks and they want to sue the company etc. We've seen and heard it all before and it's very boring.

While this may be the fact, I am still in disgust by the fact that some companies release and sell unfinished games as retail.
It's a bad practice that wander in the grey zones of being legal.

Silence is the same agreeing, so I state my opinion about it now, once, and get over it.

If SH5 get's released in an unfinished "alpha/beta" state like previous versions, then SHAME on Ubisoft.
I really mean that, and believe the reasons are obvious and clear so I don't feel the need to argue about it any more.

Done whining, /signed
Brewtality.

PS. I still believe that SH3 was made possible by Ubi, but the community made the game enjoyable. Mods should not be an essential part of any game that's great from the beginning. What I'm saying is basically that Ubi did a poor job on SHII/SHIII (I skipped SH IV) and only the modders made those games great. It's a bad practice to relyon the community to finish your work.

Nexus7

09-03-09, 06:13 AM

I want ubi/devteam to make money on this.

Don't worry about that, I would be surprised if this wasn't Ubi #1 wish. They'll care for that :O:

Nexus7

09-03-09, 06:30 AM

Mods should not be an essential part of any game that's great from the beginning. What I'm saying is basically that Ubi did a poor job on SHII/SHIII (I skipped SH IV) and only the modders made those games great. It's a bad practice to relyon the community to finish your work.
From my past experience, the darn tendence to MOD the games, results in the producer having it easier to wash his hands aftwerward.
I personally am very reluctant in installing MOD's on complex software as simulators, as IMHO there will always be a decrease in overall quality.

After modding starts, noone will complain with Ubi anymore, rather they'll address the complains to the modding community that is much more receptive... Bad practice indeed.

As for SH5, it has already been said that modding will be encouraged. I hope this doesn't have to be a reason to be a little worried (!)

That being said, I guess that even with SH5, after the hurray and all positive athmosfere and hope prior the release, this will switch to a good percentage of posts with negative character (complaints) after the release as it usually happens with any game (poor devs!).
I'd like to be wrong on that.

Sorry if I am negative, but I've seen it happen elsewhere. Modding frenzy killing a promising game.

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 02:27 PM

Yeap Nexus, modding should be about adding things and or customizing them, not fixing the game. But you must agree that modding SH3 and 4 went well beyond all those things. We went beyond what the devs imagined the game to be. And they've picked up the pace and SH5 will be a whole new thing. Ofc we'll mod the game, not because it's broken, but because we CAN :haha:. Mods do tend to decrease the quality of a game, but can you seriously say that about GWX 3 or OLC's gui? Can you say that TMO doesn't feel professional?

Take for example the double split prism stadimeter that the germans had. Now, I'll bet my hat off that not only will the devs NOT include that, but they'll even impose the Lock status on a ship for the thing to work, as they did in SH3 and 4. It's not really a bug but it will be the very first thing I would try to "fix". I'm sure the stadimeter is a simple X/Y camera effect with X=0 and Y=1 to move vertically, nested into an "if(PeriscopeOverTarget=TRUE)" condition. If it weren't for hard-coded limitations we would've had it by now :wah:. Any modding that would allow me to work at that level, creating clickable items, showing and hiding objects by conditions, creating new dials, would be good news indeed, regardless how few bugs and many features the game has when it's launched.

Webchessie

09-07-09, 06:31 PM

Great thread. Thanks everyone. My plan is to purchase SH5 when it becomes available here at Subsim.

My expectation is that SH5 have some bugs, but I hope Ubi will not release the game until it is ready to go.

Modders shouldn't have to "fix" the game to make them playable. Modders enhance the game experience. They make a great game into a fantastic game!

THE_MASK

09-07-09, 10:16 PM

I promise you, if this happens again with SH5, I will join you with a pitchfork. Even if it kills the franchise (we always have SH3 and GWX). The relationship between Ubisoft (or any game publisher) and Subsim has to be a two-way street of trust and cooperation. I know the Ubisoft marketing group have a job to do, but if the game is half-finished, that I cannot abide. Bonjourno! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KldfkE462Bk)

I agree that the ubi executives need to understand that this SH5 game is a make or break for silent hunter series .

tonschk

09-08-09, 04:41 AM

I see only one bug in this game. Watch the trailer one more time. The cook...he is thin....I do not eat were the cook is thin. Get this changed to a fat jolly old fellow. ;)

I think the opposite , I agree with the thin cook , I only eat where the cook is thin :DL , UBISOFT please the cook must be thin

TDK1044

09-08-09, 07:41 AM

Having done some research in the weeks since my initial post, I have come to believe with some confidence that SHV is going to be in a much healthier state when it's released than either SHIII or SHIV was.

With Ubisoft making the statement last year that the company accepted that it needed to improve the quality control of its games so that they were less buggy at release, I believe that internal changes were made in order to deliver on that promise.

I think we have to understand though that the game can't be all things to all people. It will undoubtedly pander to the casual gamer to a greater degree than many here would like, but at the same time it's also very obvious that the Devs have really taken the observations and criticism of SHIV to heart, and I believe that SHV will be the most impressive subsim to date.

I guess the overall point of my initial post was for us to keep the glass half full rather than half empty and invest in what the game will ultimately become. I'm now more hopeful that Ubisoft will surprise us with a game that will really impress us at release.

So with many thanks to Dan, Mihai and the other team members of SHV, I wait with confidence for the release of SHV. :)

Arclight

09-08-09, 08:15 AM

Half full? My glass is overflowing. :D

I get the same impression, and even if it's less polished than expected, I'm sure it will be whipped into shape, like both SH3 and SH4 have over time. :yeah:

No, I don't want to be a guinea pig, testing something that isn't finished. But I also don't want SH to go away. No buy = no more SH, so the choice, at least for me, is obvious. :salute:

Faamecanic

10-25-09, 11:20 AM

However, Ubi has a solid record of taking care of us.

:haha: :har: Your joking right?? I still find SH4 an abboration IMHO. So much so that after having played SH4 for only a month or so after the last patch, I went back to SH3 with GWX and let SH4 collect dust on my shelf.

I mean the list of obvious bugs never got fixed by Ubi (i.e. my main gripe...getting the same patrol assigned over and over and over... ad nauseum.)

But I will pre-order SH5 anyways, only because I want to support the sub-sim genre and Ubi is the only game in town. And I DO recognized the Devs do the best they can given the pressure from the suits.

I keep hoping the next release of the SH franchise will be near major bug free or patch to a near usable state. But again obvious bugs that never get fixed gets old. And Im not picky.... I dont whine about details missing (I could have excused SH4's "Sub on a rail" behavior if the patrols worked for example).

What kills me is when companies like EASports release 3 or 4 versions of a game/sim (Madden football series and Head coach) that are so bug ridden the sales fall of quickly. Then the suits turn around and blame the users for not supporting the franchise and then either cancel the series or just make console versions (Madden 08 was the last of the series for PC... but Madden 10 is on the books now for console only ). I dont want to see that happen to the Silent Hunter series.... but like others have said...I think this is the make or break release for Ubi.

With that said....again I will pre-order. Hopefully if enough of us PRE order the suits in Ubi HQ will wet themselves and tell UBI Romania to take extra special time to make a quality product out of the chute due to the big bank account this game has even before release!!

Faamecanic

10-25-09, 06:27 PM

Ohhh... Another interesting question...

Will the code be optimized for multicore processors?

This would help lower the system specs, while giving us a much higher tech sim.

AND will this support SLI/CROSSFIRE for the same reason above (and widescreen...)

Faamecanic

10-25-09, 06:33 PM

Ohhh... Another interesting question...

Will the code be optimized for multicore processors?

Why hire bug testers? You've got a whole forum full of them here who would gladly work for free just to get an early glimpse of SH5. :03:

Thats why I dont understand why Ubi and other game devs dont do MORE CLOSED beta tests (with Non-Disclosure Agreements). I mean someone like Neal, and other Snr. members (Kpt. Lehman) have 1) PROVEN they can keep a secret 2) have A LOT to loose if they dont. 3) PROVEN they LOVE the subsim community.

I mean a lot of the heavy duty SH3 modders (GWX, NYGM, RuB) also know how to beta test and report faults...

Webster

10-25-09, 08:45 PM

:haha: :har: Your joking right?? I still find SH4 an abboration IMHO. So much so that after having played SH4 for only a month or so after the last patch, I went back to SH3 with GWX and let SH4 collect dust on my shelf.

you must be the one joking if you think its a fair to compare sh3 with gwx (a mod that took years to get sh3 working to the point its at)

to a stock unmodded version of sh4 :06:

i get so sick of hearing this whining that sh4 isnt as good as sh3 when in many ways it is better and in many ways different but its not supposed to be a new sh3 so dont expect it to be.

if you want to compare then compare a stock unmodded version of sh3 without gwx to a stock unmodded version of sh4, then tell me how great sh3 is without having gwx to fix everything for you.

also sh3 will never feel the same as sh4 because they are different strategy, different theaters, and different atmosphere, so it shouldnt feel like they are the same because they arent supposed to be.

ps = when you get reassigned the same patrol its because you didnt complete the mission in the time or place as you were instructed to do so you are sent back to complete the mission and "follow your orders" this time.

Philipp_Thomsen

10-25-09, 10:39 PM

Well, Im sorry to disappoint, but Im not going to buy this game.

I dont like sub sims.

Méo

10-25-09, 10:48 PM

I dont like sub sims.

So what the hell are you doing here. :o

Philipp_Thomsen

10-26-09, 12:45 AM

Wait...

This is not a flight sim forum???

oh crap... :damn:

Adriatico

10-26-09, 02:19 AM

I'll buy SHV as it gets released.

If it is bugged, I'll take my time to get familiar with keys, commands and settings of the game ...till the first patch.

( how to do this, how to perform that...etc )

Real fun in sim is - when you reach automatic level of playing skills.

***
Anyway, in this said period of "exterminated" serious sims for PC - it will be holiday for me!

:arrgh!:

Reece

10-26-09, 07:44 AM

Stop that teasing Philipp!!:nope::03:

Kavok

10-26-09, 08:48 AM

I'll be buying SHV when it is released, since I'm building a machine specifically for it. From there, with any luck patches will appear rapidly where bugs etc. are discovered so I'm hoping for some good beta work.

I'd urge Ubi not to rush though, I'd rather the date slip a bit if we get a better quality product.

Webster

10-26-09, 10:02 AM

@jscones

it may have sounded like i was trying to say sh4 is better than sh3 and i guess i did but i love sh3 as well and just like i said about sh4, sh3 is better than sh4 in many ways too, i love both games equally but the thing i felt i had to respond to was this idea that sh3 IS gwx.

while most will agree gwx is what makes sh3 so good, i often play it stock just like i play sh4 stock so i know both stock games and the flaws of each very well. i would bet he never tried or even knows about the TMO or RFB supermods because of his comments.

comparing stock sh4 to sh3 with gwx is like comparing a bycicle to a bicycle with a car pulling it, which is totally unfair and uncomparable.

Faamecanic

10-26-09, 10:51 AM

if you want to compare then compare a stock unmodded version of sh3 without gwx to a stock unmodded version of sh4, then tell me how great sh3 is without having gwx to fix everything for you.

ps = when you get reassigned the same patrol its because you didnt complete the mission in the time or place as you were instructed to do so you are sent back to complete the mission and "follow your orders" this time.

Did I say I was comparing SH4 to GWX? No I did not, please read posts before misquoting and going off half-cocked...I was just saying I went back to GWX because of the bugs in SH4 that were totally obvious and game breakers for me. Would I not have upset you as much if I said I went to playing Madden 08, or MS flightsim and uninstalled SH4 (actually that might have been true as I have more than one game on my HDD).

Also YOU MADE MY POINT for me that UBI does not finish what they start. The quote I used was from a poster that said "Ubisoft will take care of us" when in fact we know they left BOTH SH3 vanilla and SH4 with huge bugs. You even admit it by saying "then tell me how great sh3 is without having gwx to fix everything for you". Which means by your own admission SH3 WAS BROKE and never fixed until GWX came about. So your saying the same thing I did that "UBI does not take care of us"....Right?

As far as your comment on patrols being reassigned... maybe that was fixed with the release/patch containing the Uboats. I never bought that after the last FREE download patch because I thought why bother if they didnt fix the stock SH4. And shame on Ubi if they had a further SH4 patch contained in Uboat add on. Why should I have to PAY for a patch (actually I would have PAID for a patch to SH3 and 4 if Ubi FIXED all the gross errors.. again example from SH3 the XXI batteries taking forever to recharge).

Furthermore...I DID get "Mission complete" messages EVERY TIME I played SH4, I would return to port (sailing the whole way) and would still get the same mission over and over. So if I was doing something wrong and still getting "Mission complete" I would say that is a bug eh...

Back to my main point 1) it should NEVER be up to the Mod community to fix UBI's or any other game publishers lack of QA and giving devs long enough to finish a project. This is somethig it seems UBI is serious about fixing, and if they do the GOOD FOR THEM...they will be the first in the PC game industry to not only admit they have fallen down on QA, but would make the the FIRST to do something about it 2) I will STILL pre-purchase SH 5 only to support the devs in HOPE that UBI will get enough pre-purchase money this time to allow the Devs to finish the project. Although I must say I feel like Im being taken advantage of by my own choice here after being burned.

To me it seemed in INFERRED that I was comparing SH3 w/GWX to SH4 and I was not. You are correct that you cant compare the two. In fact you cant compare SH3 to SH4. My main point was UBI does NOT take care of us (in giving us a near bug free sim even after multiple patches).

And "i would bet he never tried or even knows about the TMO or RFB supermods". Yes I knew there were out there (early releases last I looked at them), but by then SH4 was removed from my HDD and I was enjoying myself with GWX (and other games, sims) and never had the time to try these out. I may give them a go now, for something to hold me over until SH5. But now it seems you want to compare a moded SH4 with the vanilla SH4, and according to your logic we are not supposed to do that.

Webster

10-26-09, 01:59 PM

ok, it was a missunderstanding then.

i am sorry if i offended you but there are many who have driven me crazy with the very arguement that sh4 isnt as good as sh3 with gwx and then say they havent tried any sh4 mods yet because its not worth trying. i just want to blow a gasket when they compare something totally uncomparable like that.

in my opinion both sh3 and sh4 are equal for things fixed and not fixed so after each has its last patch 1.4 then they both have about the same amount of bugs, glitches, and inaccuracy in the games that mods are needed to address.

i left out v1.5 because it has to be bought seperately which i never liked but it was more of a tune up for the game engine than any legitimate fixes in it.

i dont want to compare gwx to tmo or rfb because any comment will have someones favorite feel slighted by not having top billing but i'll say this:

if you try sh4 with tmo or rfb mods then you will find they are very good mods on par with gwx. i would say each has its own elements to fit someones tastes better but all 3 are tied as equal quality, effort, and scope, in my mind

in the end its a personal choice thing, if you like ford better than chevy, do you like u-boats or fleet boats, are you a demacrat or republican, liberal or conservative.

for many people the deciding factor is less about the game and more about the theater your game operates in.

Back to my main point 1) it should NEVER be up to the Mod community to fix UBI's or any other game publishers lack of QA and giving devs long enough to finish a project.

no arguement there, i totally agree with you. i think everyone does, including the devs.