Why are people so angry at the health care town halls?

[CastleBravo]

Something from an orange County register poll.......not exactly a right leaning publication, or a right leaning area.

Why are people so angry at the health care town halls?http://www.pollmonkey.com/img/t.gif

It's an organized effort to derail Obama's agenda.
19%
The health reform bills reek of socialism
39%
People don't trust the government
16%
This health plan is the last straw after bailouts, stimulus money.
26%

[Rilder]

90% - Falling to fear mongering in the media.

[CastleBravo]

I think its the combination of these two. At least in my mind. That is how I see it.

People don't trust the government.

This health plan is the last straw after bailouts, stimulus money.

[Carotio]

90% - Falling to fear mongering in the media.

I agree.
Money runs the show, the more show the more money to the medias in form of advertisements...
Some people are just too easy to freak out...:shifty:

[Rilder]

I agree.
Money runs the show, the more show the more money to the medias in form of advertisements...
Some people are just too easy to freak out...:shifty:

THE GOVERNMENTS ARE COMING FOR YOU, YOU KNOW THE TRUTH NOW THEY ARE GOING TO KILL YOU.:rotfl:

[sharkbit]

I'm immune-I wear my tinfoil hat when on the internetz or watching tv so the government can't read my thoughts or influence my thinking.
:shifty:

[Platapus]

Considering that there still aint no health plan, I also wonder why people are getting so upset.

We have three drafts that are still going through the House committees. The House of Representatives does not have a formal health plan yet. We have not even started with the Senate edits and changes.

No one has any idea what the final health plan coming out of congress will look like.....no one.

Way way too early to get this upset.

We have miles to go before we rest.

Instead of yelling at town hall meetings, I wonder how many of these yellers have sat down and written their three representatives an unemotional letter giving the facts and their desires/opinions on this matter?

I wager, few. :nope:

Now is not the time for yelling, now is the time to contact your three representatives.. as well as your various state representatives.

That's how a representative democracy works... Not yelling on camera. :nope:

[Aramike]

Considering that there still aint no health plan, I also wonder why people are getting so upset.So wait - you think that people should wait until AFTER a bill is passed to get upset?

Btw, why do you think Obama wanted a bill before recess? (Hint: he knew that public outcry would be ardent.)Instead of yelling at town hall meetings, I wonder how many of these yellers have sat down and written their three representatives an unemotional letter giving the facts and their desires/opinions on this matter?

I wager, few. I wager, MANY, MANY times more than who show up at town halls.

[Skybird]

US citizens may want to meditate about these numbers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8201711.stm

And they may want to take into account this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/opinion/14krugman.html

The reason for the massive, collective spike of hysteric emotions imo is lacking understanding of what the reform plans to do, lacking understanding of how much insurance there already is and how much many of those being against it already benefit from it, and an agenda totally indepedant from the object being: discussed to do maximum damage to Obama for him not being Republican, and revenge for Republicans not having won the elections. Like Islam is deeply offended by everything not being Islam, Republicans are deeply offended by not being elected into power. For the Republican party, getting back to power or staying in power, justifies every means. EVERY means. And they have often proved that since WWII.

[Aramike]

US citizens may want to meditate about these numbers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8201711.stm

And they may want to take into account this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/opinion/14krugman.html

The reason for the massive, collective spike of hysteric emotions imo is lacking understanding of what the reform plans to do, lacking understanding of how much insurance there already is and how much many of those being against it already benefit from it, and an agenda totally indepedant from the object being: discussed to do maximum damage to Obama for him not being Republican, and revenge for Republicans not having won the elections. Like Islam is deeply offended by everything not being Islam, Republicans are deeply offended by not being elected into power. For the Republican party, getting back to power or staying in power, justifies every means. EVERY means. And they have often proved that since WWII.I don't necessarily disagree with you completely (even though I do somewhat), but I find your argument to be completely one-sided - the Democratic party is EXACTLY the same way.

I can cite liberal hypocrisies for hours (and the same for conservatives). Like Nancy Pelosi telling antiwar protesters that she's a fan of disruptors, then going on to attack healthcare critics for disruptions.

http://www.breitbart.tv/06-flashback-pelosi-tells-anti-war-protesters-im-a-fan-of-disruptors/

In the end, its all about power to these people - that's the one trait that crosses party lines.

[Skybird]

I don't necessarily disagree with you completely (even though I do somewhat), but I find your argument to be completely one-sided - the Democratic party is EXACTLY the same way.

The far more serious and unscrupelous scandals in politics since WWII - have all been committed by Republican government and presidents, not Democrats. Demoicrats often may not be saints, but I fail to see any scandal that compares to Watergate, Contras/Irangate, Bush-Iraq-2003, and Reagan's betrayel of Carter over the hostages. And to me these are the major scandals, equalling high treason, of American politics since WWII. I have said and illustrated that repeatedly. As a matter of fact I really do not like the democratic party in general, and I often find myself agreeing more with conservative than democratic figures - but this is with regard to nindividuals, not paarties. As a party, republicans can go to hell, with Democrats in hot pursuit. But the record of serious failings, scandals and treacheries, as I see the latter, will forever make me opposing the Republicans. To me, as a faction, they are some of the greatest liars, most hypocritical zealots and most unscrupelous polit-gangsters on earth. What I also do not like is that they appeal so very often and so intensively to irrational emotions when having run out of arguments - several of Palin's statements jut being the latest but not the only example. But that is a problem with all american politics, and with politicians in general. It's just that I see Republiancs as being more competent masters of this "art" than others.

[Platapus]

So wait - you think that people should wait until AFTER a bill is passed to get upset?

.

Not necessarily after it is passed, but if people are gonna whine, they should at least wait until there is a final version to whine about.

There should not be any whine before its time. :D

That's why I posted that the appropriate thing to do NOW is write to your representatives.

[Aramike]

Not necessarily after it is passed, but if people are gonna whine, they should at least wait until there is a final version to whine about.

There should not be any whine before its time. :D

That's why I posted that the appropriate thing to do NOW is write to your representatives.I disagree. People should not wait until zero hour to help formulate policy. Think about it: this WOULD be the final bill if the masses were silent.

[Aramike]

The far more serious and unscrupelous scandals in politics since WWII - have all been committed by Republican government and presidents, not Democrats. Demoicrats often may not be saints, but I fail to see any scandal that compares to Watergate, Contras/Irangate, Bush-Iraq-2003, and Reagan's betrayel of Carter over the hostages. And to me these are the major scandals, equalling high treason, of American politics since WWII. I have said and illustrated that repeatedly. As a matter of fact I really do not like the democratic party in general, and I often find myself agreeing more with conservative than democratic figures - but this is with regard to nindividuals, not paarties. As a party, republicans can go to hell, with Democrats in hot pursuit. But the record of serious failings, scandals and treacheries, as I see the latter, will forever make me opposing the Republicans. To me, as a faction, they are some of the greatest liars, most hypocritical zealots and most unscrupelous polit-gangsters on earth. What I also do not like is that they appeal so very often and so intensively to irrational emotions when having run out of arguments - several of Palin's statements jut being the latest but not the only example. But that is a problem with all american politics, and with politicians in general. It's just that I see Republiancs as being more competent masters of this "art" than others.Again, you're being selective (in fact, some of your examples I wouldn't even qualify as scandals - mistakes, perhaps, but not scandals).

But let's look at the Democrats, shall we: "Landslide Lyndon" courtesy of George Parr, Vietnam (if you consider Iraq to be a scandal, how about the death toll there? And, that conflict was perpetuated and most expanded upon by DEMOCRATS), Carter's out and out betrayal of the Iranian Shah, Clinton's lying under oath (I don't give a damn about what he lied about, just that he lied), ACORN, etc. I honestly could go on for hours.

[Platapus]

this WOULD be the final bill if the masses were silent.

And what do you base this on?


Is it your position that if this immeasurably small sample of the citizens who are bitchin at town meetings had not bitched, that this bill would have gotten through all the committees and garnered agreement in both houses of congress by now?

I don't think that is a reasonable assumption.

Demonstrations at a small number of town halls is simply not going to have that much impact on the House or the Senate.

[SUBMAN1]

I'd have to disagree with the above post. Everyone I talk to, including all the Canadians I deal with on a daily basis, do not want this health care as prescribed.

Goverment has proven time and time again - they are wasteful, and the one shoe fits all sizes approach never works. That is why we have choices and competition in this country. What they describe is not a choice and has no competition.

Canada's system is going bankrupt. Their own PM said it is a disaster. They will be going to a private system. We however can't see over the fence with the media constantly distracting you, and we are creating our own disaster.

Stupid people.

-S

[August]

immeasurably small sample of the citizens

We'll see how immeasurable and small that group of citizens is come next years Congressional elections...

[Rilder]

I'm immune-I wear my tinfoil hat when on the internetz or watching tv so the government can't read my thoughts or influence my thinking.
:shifty:

They want you to wear tinfoil since it amplifies their signals..

The only effective defense is a lead helmet.

[SUBMAN1]

We'll see how immeasurable and small that group of citizens is come next years Congressional elections...

Yep. In know many demo's that won't be voting demo already. If they pass this, I predict a Repub landslide - easy.

-S

[Skybird]

They want you to wear tinfoil since it amplifies their signals..

The only effective defense is a lead helmet.

Doesn't work. Better store your head and brain separately. :up:

[Skybird]

Again, you're being selective (in fact, some of your examples I wouldn't even qualify as scandals - mistakes, perhaps, but not scandals).

But let's look at the Democrats, shall we: "Landslide Lyndon" courtesy of George Parr, Vietnam (if you consider Iraq to be a scandal, how about the death toll there? And, that conflict was perpetuated and most expanded upon by DEMOCRATS), Carter's out and out betrayal of the Iranian Shah, Clinton's lying under oath (I don't give a damn about what he lied about, just that he lied), ACORN, etc. I honestly could go on for hours.

Obviously we have extremely different standards.Are your examples nuisances? Absolutely. Did they do so much damage and crime to the nation like the real blockbusters I mentioned? No way to answer that with a Yes.

And the president's motives for going to war in Vietnam and Iraq do not compare in any way. Vietnam was a mess, but for very different reasons than the adventure the neocon mafia and their attached economic lobbies pushed your country into. And of the two, Vietnam just let you lose your face, but Iraq has far more threatening strategic longterm consequences, but this just btw.

[Aramike]

And what do you base this on?


Is it your position that if this immeasurably small sample of the citizens who are bitchin at town meetings had not bitched, that this bill would have gotten through all the committees and garnered agreement in both houses of congress by now?

I don't think that is a reasonable assumption.

Demonstrations at a small number of town halls is simply not going to have that much impact on the House or the Senate. You're right - perhaps MORE would have been added to the bill.

You'll never see a bill get skimmed without some kind of outcry. Ever.

And no, it's not my position that without the town halls and protests the bill would have gotten through congress by now - congress is in recess. It *IS* my position that, without this outcry, when they reconvene this bill would have been quickly pushed to the floor and passed because that's what Obama has been trying to do all along.

[Aramike]

Obviously we have extremely different standards.Are your examples nuisances? Absolutely. Did they do so much damage and crime to the nation like the real blockbusters I mentioned? No way to answer that with a Yes. Using your list of scandals, I don't see them as much worse than mine.

George Parr tampering with the election of a Senator, who would ultimately become the democrat president who escalates the Vietnam War is not a mere nuisance. Carter's complete mishandling of Iran wasn't a nuisance. ACORN is not a nuisance (to me anything supplanting the democratic system of elections amounts to treason).

[mookiemookie]

Yep. In know many demo's that won't be voting demo already. If they pass this, I predict a Repub landslide - easy.

-S

Just like the McCain landslide you predicted?

[Platapus]

when they reconvene this bill would have been quickly pushed to the floor and passed because that's what Obama has been trying to do all along.

Fortunately, it is not up to the President but the individual houses of the congress.

The President ASKS congress, he does not tell congress. And that is a good thing.:yeah:

[Aramike]

Fortunately, it is not up to the President but the individual houses of the congress.

The President ASKS congress, he does not tell congress. And that is a good thing.:yeah:Umm, a heavily democratically controlled congress with listen to a democratic controlled White House, 99% of the time.

[SUBMAN1]

Just like the McCain landslide you predicted?

Please use your brain when replying to posts. You are displaying a complete lack there of.

-S

[Vacquero]

In the end what we in the US have is a Republican form of government. We're supposed to anyway. The People are in charge, not the President not Congress nor the SC. Therefore, if the People say "no", than "no" it should be. We have enough people pretending to know how our form of government works, that are in high positions within our government, to negate the need for people to bloviate on and on about the subject when they have not lived under the system.

[Platapus]

Umm, a heavily democratically controlled congress with listen to a democratic controlled White House, 99% of the time.

That may have been true when we had a Republican President and a Republican congress, but it does not appear to be true with a Democratic President and a Democratic congress.

This current congress does not seem to be willing to rubberstamp the President's wishes like the last pair.

[Aramike]

That may have been true when we had a Republican President and a Republican congress, but it does not appear to be true with a Democratic President and a Democratic congress.

This current congress does not seem to be willing to rubberstamp the President's wishes like the last pair.You're kidding, right? They passed a MASSIVE stimulus bill that the president asked for in hardly any time at all. And let's not get started on CARS. Sotomayor. This congress has been nothing more than an Obama rubberstamp, and have not put forth any significant resistance to anything the president has asked for.

[August]

The bottom line is it is never a good thing when both houses of Congress and the White House are dominated by the same party.

[mookiemookie]

You're kidding, right? They passed a MASSIVE stimulus bill that the president asked for in hardly any time at all. And let's not get started on CARS. Sotomayor. This congress has been nothing more than an Obama rubberstamp, and have not put forth any significant resistance to anything the president has asked for.

Blue Dog Democrats and the healthcare bill?

[August]

Blue Dog Democrats and the healthcare bill?

vs guys like this?

http://www.end22.com/

[Aramike]

Blue Dog Democrats and the healthcare bill?You mean you think this is any different than when they complained the stimulus was too expensive until they lopped off a whopping 6%?

The whole point is that the people are speaking out and Congress can ignore them at their own peril. That usually is enough to make them stand against the president.

That's where the anger comes in.

[SteamWake]

Blue Dog Democrats and the healthcare bill?

It would appear that 'some' politicos see the perilous path they are treading and fear for there future jobs.

After the stimulous, the cash for clunkers, and now the public display of disapproval they should think twice.