Automakers and unions

[prowler3]

Replying to some earlier comments in this thread:

I'll be buying anything BUT American made automobiles, in the future. As much as I wish to "support my country" I refuse to allow the Unions, who have killed the American auto industry, to continue on their rampant abuse of what is, basically, a simple job.

What did the UAW give up? NOTHING. I watch those overpaid, overcompensated people on every video you see...attaching 5 bolts, over and over. It's "piece work" that any moron can be trained to do. And yet, we pay a premium on poorly built automobiles...so the UAW can have health care for the rest of their lives and compensation WAY above what the actual job deserves. When those union members have to live in the real world, with compensation comensurate to what they ACTUALLY DO...maybe I'll buy another American vehicle. I'm not holding my breath...Obama will protect those worthless overpaid union workers because they bought his presidency.

So, all you UAW pukes...I'm buying anything BUT American made automobiles until you realize...YOU are THE major cause of the failure of America's auto industry. Not the Exec's, not the Government...YOU killed the auto industry in this country.

Crap quality, crap technology and crap products. Economics 101: build crap, at expensive prices, and you will eventually die...or be propped up by your bought and paid for President.

I've bought my last American made automobile...never again will I support such an overpriced and overpaid workforce. :down:

[Zachstar]

Replying to some earlier comments in this thread:

I'll be buying anything BUT American made automobiles, in the future. As much as I wish to "support my country" I refuse to allow the Unions, who have killed the American auto industry, to continue on their rampant abuse of what is, basically, a simple job.

What did the UAW give up? NOTHING. I watch those overpaid, overcompensated people on every video you see...attaching 5 bolts, over and over. It's "piece work" that any moron can be trained to do. And yet, we pay a premium on poorly built automobiles...so the UAW can have health care for the rest of their lives and compensation WAY above what the actual job deserves. When those union members have to live in the real world, with compensation comensurate to what they ACTUALLY DO...maybe I'll buy another American vehicle. I'm not holding my breath...Obama will protect those worthless overpaid union workers because they bought his presidency.

So, all you UAW pukes...I'm buying anything BUT American made automobiles until you realize...YOU are THE major cause of the failure of America's auto industry. Not the Exec's, not the Government...YOU killed the auto industry in this country.

Crap quality, crap technology and crap products. Economics 101: build crap, at expensive prices, and you will eventually die...or be propped up by your bought and paid for President.

I've bought my last American made automobile...never again will I support such an overpriced and overpaid workforce. :down:

Aww did the unions make you cry again? Not to mention how you are completely and utterly uneducated in my view of the conditions in the auto plants and how they have improved BECAUSE of unions.

Of course! Defend the execs who made the decisions to build SUVs instead of energy efficient vehicles. Why you are proving the stereotypical view of republicans being "Defend the rich from the unwashed at all costs!"

UAW gave up nothing? Are you kidding me? I wont even bother showing you the list of concessions made in the past year. You will just shrug it off. Call it a commie piece of paper or some other wackball thing in my view.

Go back to listening to Shan Hannity I am sure it makes you feel like a "good american" eh?

[prowler3]

Aww did the unions make you cry again? Not to mention how you are completely and utterly uneducated in my view of the conditions in the auto plants and how they have improved BECAUSE of unions.

Of course! Defend the execs who made the decisions to build SUVs instead of energy efficient vehicles. Why you are proving the stereotypical view of republicans being "Defend the rich from the unwashed at all costs!"

UAW gave up nothing? Are you kidding me? I wont even bother showing you the list of concessions made in the past year. You will just shrug it off. Call it a commie piece of paper or some other wackball thing in my view.

Go back to listening to Shan Hannity I am sure it makes you feel like a "good american" eh?

As I'm sure your view makes you feel the same. :O: I don't WANT a 2 seater fuel efficient "car". I use a 3/4 ton heavy duty pickup in my job and my personal life. Don't like it? Don't really care. I've seen the list of "concessions"...if that is what you want to call them. Hogwash! A line worker is the most overpaid employee in the US.

Again...Economics 101, if somebody will put it together cheaper elsewhere, who's the idiot to continue paying outlandish union wages? Your next comment will probably mention "quality". Really? Have you owned an American made automobile recently? Let's talk resale value? I thought not.

It's very simple...Americans, as a group, have come to expect more for less and it will be our downfall...it's already starting. Until and unless we decide that we will be paid according to our work, we not expect the Government to support us except in the extreme and we not expect to be "owed" anything we are not deserving of, then the decline will continue.

Tell me, what does America actually PRODUCE, for export, these days? Not much. Just a quick look at the trade deficit numbers will show that.

I operate one of the 5 top ranked power plants in the US. Top ranked by production, availability, pollution control and efficiency...all without the "benefit" of any union. We do it because we give a damn and we are proud...not because some union says we should get more benefits. We do it 24/7/365 :rock:. Even though our production of electricity is much more critical than how many overpriced cars GM or Ford turns out is, nobody will whine until their lights go out. And their lights will not go out because of a strike, walkout or demands for more than we deserve.

You may, as well, go back to Moveon.org, for what that is worth. It is exactly the same as your Hannity comment...whatever. The fact is that you wanted "Change"...no matter the cost. Now, you have it. Don't whine when it takes you 6 months to get the medical procedure you require tommorow. I KNOW. My father died January 16th, 2008 in Victoria, BC, Canada waiting for an operation that should have been performed at the first sign of cancer. THAT is a fact. Welcome to Government run ANYTHING.

It's not "republicans" or "democrats" anymore, my friend. It's common sense versus stupidity.

$700 b dollars to fix the American infrastructure...but only for "shovel ready" projects? Does anyone not understand that there are almost no such projects? You don't just say "OK, we're ready to fix 10 bridges in Squatstain County". Stupid.

I could go on and on...and you would spew the tired old liberal replies. What's the point. I will venture one forcast...Obama is a one term president.

And, no, I have no interest in Master & Commander II.

[Zachstar]

Ah so you are management. Then there is absolutely zero and I mean zero point in debating with you. As unlike some deluded fool who thinks Unions are bad because they are overworked and jealous or because they are literally so brainwashed that they just fall in line. You in my view see unions as in the way. You likely give benefits in my view just to keep the union away and that extra cost enrages you. Workers rights enrage you in my view. You view work as a "gift" rather than the necessity needed in this economy in my view.

So you can take a hike! There is plenty of good management out there that seeing unionized labor as an asset. You aren't one of them and likely never will be in my view.

[Platapus]

UAW gave up nothing? Are you kidding me? I wont even bother showing you the list of concessions made in the past year. You will just shrug it off. Call it a commie piece of paper or some other wackball thing in my view.


If you don't offer evidence to support your position you are no better than Prowler. You are both just stating an opinion.

[Sailor Steve]

I could go on and on...and you would spew the tired old liberal replies. What's the point.
Ah so you are management. Then there is absolutely zero and I mean zero point in debating with you.

So why is there a debate going on?

[ETR3(SS)]

No debate here, just blowing off steam it seems.

[OneToughHerring]

As far as US unions go, the 90th anniversary of the Battle of Matewan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Matewan) is coming up soon.

The Battle of Matewan lead to the Battle of Blair Mountain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain) which led to improvements for workers. So all in all, a worthy struggle.

Proud to say that Finns have always been active in labour unions in the States.

[GoldenRivet]

i would agree with Herring here.

Some unions are essential to the protection of the rights and interests of workers - without regards to which particular profession a worker should happen to select as his method of employment and wage earning. :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

I have worked for a rather overly-bureaucratic and tyrannical large corporation before.

the union was frequently a workers largest ally for protection against a fear and intimidation based management system.

[Platapus]

irregardless of their chosen profession.


ALARM!!!!!!!!!!!!


irregardless? :damn:
:D

[GoldenRivet]

ALARM!!!!!!!!!!!!


irregardless? :damn:
:D

fixed it so you could understand what i mean

[Shearwater]

I'll be buying anything BUT American made automobiles, in the future.

If you intend to buy German cars instead, be assured that we are proud both to produce high quality cars and allow for ample codetermination in our factories. It's a different system compared to the US, but it has ensured prosperity and social balance over the last 60 years.
Unions are absolutely necessary. Our would you prefer that everything is decided top-down from people who do not have the resemblance of the faintest idea of what it actually means to work? Of course unions aren't perfect, and there might well be some points where they have overstepped the mark. But then blame the people in charge, not the unions as a whole.

I've just read that the Tata Nano is planned to be introduced to the US market in 2 years. (http://jalopnik.com/5182270/tata-planning-nano-for-us-market). If they ever intend to produce a pickup version, I'm sure you're in for a treat. And you don't have to worry about excessive wages in India.

[CaptainHaplo]

Actually - buy American - aka - Ford. Ford deals with the unions, but is SOLVENT on its own - and thus is the PICTURE of why capitalism works. The UNION didn't kill GM - though one could say it helped. Honestly - the suits did more to kill GM than the unions (and I am NOT a fan of unions). Bad management - has lead to the American people bailing them out. Instead - reward what has worked - a capitalist company - out to make money - working with its union employees to make a business that doesn't need a handout.

My next vehicle will be a Ford. If you buy foreign - your either going euro or far eastern. Euro makes as well as the far eastern makers build some cars here - meaning they have unionized workers. If its an import - Euro makes use unionized labor - and the UAW is nothing compared to euro unions.... Depending on the far eastern manufacturer - some are unionized, while others are sweatshops. Is that how you want to use your money to support that type of operation? Think before you dole out the cash my friend. By Ford.

[FIREWALL]

Base Camaro v-6 entry level $32,000.00+

Mustang GT loaded $27,000.00


Speaks for it self.

[sunvalleyslim]

Strength comes with Unions............But when times are hard they lose what they are trying to accomplish. They never want to concede anything they have have all ready gotten.
They need to step back, especially at this time and make concessions. They need to realize that with a gobal economy they need to redirect. Stubborness does'nt cut it.
Hey nobody wants to lose anything they have. We have been told to share the wealth. All to often we have been told that the wealthy have taken from the poor (middle class). We have all seen abuses in our system. But one thing stands clear....when you open up competition, the best stand tall. And we need that. Not everyone of us will be at the top. It's a fact. I wanted to be a Naval Officer, but I didn't make the necessary effort. So I was an enlisted man. But still my job was important for the sucess of the "Boat". Capitalism works to encourage the best out of all. "Not all can be the best"....Sorry for the mistakes, must be the Jack Daniels in me.

[Shearwater]

Strength comes with Unions............But when times are hard they lose what they are trying to accomplish. They never want to concede anything they have have all ready gotten.
They need to step back, especially at this time and make concessions. They need to realize that with a gobal economy they need to redirect. Stubborness does'nt cut it.

Generally, I agree. Having said that, I have read a newspaper article that morning about the employment situation in Germany, and it dealt with precicely that matter. Both Employers and employees in Germany work very hard to keep their staff. For the time being, reduced hours is the watchword, which, of course, means financial cutbacks. Companies have learned their lessons from the early nineties when we had an economy crisis due to the German reunification. They sacked a lot of workers, not only the unskilled ones, and had a hard time to rebuild a competent workforce. Not to mention the huge impact on the social insurance systems.
This time, companies are much more willing to keep their workers, although at the moment the big question is for how long they maintain that policy.

Not everyone of us will be at the top. It's a fact.
True, but I often think about what happens to those at the other end ... People need to have the confidence that they can still contribute even if they're not at the top.
The most important thing is that employers and employees depend on each other. This is no time for fighting.

[Zachstar]

More concessions? Sure make us give up more for the mistakes of people who have zero idea how bubbles work or cant see around the SUV corner.

In case one has not noticed. Trickle up economy works. People I talk to are feeling it is safer to spend a little now that minimum wage has gone up. The economy is getting better.


I will admit tho. Enemies of workers rights are extremely sneaky and educated in the ways of union busting. I rarely go a few days without some brainwashed fool tells me (UFCW BTW) how unions will mean the death of America. After which of course they usually claim Obama is not an American or is a Muslim.

[FIREWALL]

Half of something is better than, all of nothing.

There has to be give and take. I think it's called Compromise.

I hope the Suits and the Union don't learn the hard way.

[Zachstar]

The unions are just about done with the concession game. The suits have taken very little "compromise" in comparison.

The economy is coming back. Much to the dismay of union busters who use each and every recession to fight unions. The game is over.

Instead of fighting unions a better tactic is to simply adapt. So much money is spent on union busting campaigns that would be FAR better spent in R&D.

[Tribesman]

If its an import - Euro makes use unionized labor - and the UAW is nothing compared to euro unions....
Yes, but the again the european auto unions don't have to ensure they get decent health cover from their employers like the UAW have to.

[Takeda Shingen]

The economy is coming back.

That statement is very premature.