Learjet Liberals

[SteamWake]

Some have mocked that phrase 'Learjet Liberals'.

But here just read this.

House Orders Up Three Elite Jets

Last year, lawmakers excoriated the CEOs of the Big Three automakers for traveling to Washington, D.C., by private jet to attend a hearing about a possible bailout of their companies.

But apparently Congress is not philosophically averse to private air travel: At the end of July, the House approved nearly $200 million for the Air Force to buy three elite Gulfstream jets for ferrying top government officials and Members of Congress. The Air Force had asked for one Gulfstream 550 jet (price tag: about $65 million) as part of an ongoing upgrade of its passenger air service.



http://www.rollcall.com/media/37552-1.html

ps; This was part of the 'Defense appropriations' :stare:




pps; Why cant I edit this:(

[AVGWarhawk]

Do as I say not as I do. :shifty:

[SteamWake]

Do as I say not as I do. :shifty:

Please dont bring the healthcare debate into this ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

Please dont bring the healthcare debate into this ;)

Well, Congress is NOT under the proposed universal program like the rest of the serfs. :88) Do as I say and not as I do!

[FIREWALL]

Well, Congress is NOT under the proposed universal program like the rest of the serfs. :88) Do as I say and not as I do!


That's US serfs Mister. :stare: :haha::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[TheBrauerHour]

:nope:

[Sailor Steve]

Reminds me of the article I read a few weeks ago, in which some congressman chastised bank execs for setting their own salaries.

"Wait a minute, Mr. Congressman. Who is it that votes your pay raises again?"

You need to understand, they're better than the rest of us, or else they wouldn't be Washington lawmakers.

[AVGWarhawk]

Do as I say Steve and not as I do! That is how it is in Washington. They live in a different world then you and I. Reality to them is sour creamer for the coffee in the morning. Once that is handled whoever served the sour creamer is fired.

[SteamWake]

Now when the politico's are confronted with angry citizens raising valid points they come up with this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

[nikimcbee]

I'm hoping for change now; vote these chumps out!:yeah:

[SteamWake]

I'm hoping for change now; vote these chumps out!:yeah:

So whos paying you to say that? :|\\

[Zachstar]

What is wrong with this? These aircraft will belong to the airforce which has a responsibility to move people around.

We have no idea what kind of modifications will be done to these aircraft so grouping them in with luxury craft CEOs use is very premature.

[SteamWake]

What is wrong with this? These aircraft will belong to the airforce which has a responsibility to move people around.

We have no idea what kind of modifications will be done to these aircraft so grouping them in with luxury craft CEOs use is very premature.

As far as Im concearned they can fly coach. :up:

For cryin out loud.

[Zachstar]

Well I don't exactly like the idea of a high name government official flying in the back of the plane. It will only cause a serious disturbance for the airline. Not to mention the security issues.

[Thomen]

Well I don't exactly like the idea of a high name government official flying in the back of the plane. It will only cause a serious disturbance for the airline. Not to mention the security issues.


An Amtrak train was good enough for Joe the Senator. A good example for all those 'high name' officials, I might add.

[SteamWake]

Argument of methods of transportation aside.

Dont you think its a rather un appropriate time to be spending this kind of money on this kind of thing. What the Gulfstreams are no loger in vogue?

[mookiemookie]

Now when the politico's are confronted with angry citizens raising valid points they come up with this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Amazing...


Yesterday, Ken Johnson at the Eagle-Tribune in Massachusetts, noticed something fishy going on with the letters to the editor his paper was receiving (http://www.eagletribune.com/punews/local_story_103032149.html):Across Massachusetts, senior citizens are writing letters to newspapers demanding that their representatives in Congress protect a form of health insurance called Medicare Advantage.
At least that’s what newspaper editors are supposed to think.
Some of those seniors are unaware that they have sent any such letters to newspapers. Some of them hadn’t even heard of Medicare Advantage.
“I did not write a letter to the editor. It’s not from me,” said Gloria Gosselin, 75, of Lawrence.
Gosselin’s name was on one of three strikingly similar letters touting the Medicare Advantage program that were sent to The Eagle-Tribune.
It turns out, these letters came from the Dewey Square Group, a Boston-based political marketing and consulting firm, who has been hired by America’s Health Insurance Plans, the insurance industry lobby, to fight against President Obama’s plan to stop subsidizing private insurers through Medicare Advantage (http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/03/11/grasslaey-ma/).
The Dewey Square Group has been using some extremely deceptive practices to get AHIP’s message out:A tip-off to the true origin of the letters came when The Eagle-Tribune received a call from a man who turned out to be an intern at the Boston office of the Dewey Square Group, a national political marketing and consulting firm.
The man, who identified himself as Noah, wanted to know if Gloria Gosselin’s letter had been published. Asked what interest he had in the letter, Noah replied that he was Gosselin’s grandson.
Gosselin does not have a grandson named Noah working in Boston. Her only grandson is a student at Central Catholic.People can be presented with all the hard proof in the world that Obama was born in Hawaii and they cling to their conspiracy theories, but they refuse to believe that Astroturfing exists.


Absolutely amazing.

[Aramike]

Well I don't exactly like the idea of a high name government official flying in the back of the plane. It will only cause a serious disturbance for the airline. Not to mention the security issues.But we already have billions of dollars in military transports that could do the job.

[Aramike]

Amazing...

People can be presented with all the hard proof in the world that Obama was born in Hawaii and they cling to their conspiracy theories, but they refuse to believe that Astroturfing exists.


Absolutely amazing.You know what's ironic?

I find the tactics these consulting firms sometimes use to be outrageous and deplorable - no matter what side they are on.

Now, where's your outrage against ACORN?

It's very difficult for an objective observer to take anyone who's so intellectually ... self-deceiving seriously.

Not to pick on you, but you do seem to be very particular with your outrage.

[SteamWake]

For cryin out loud put the damn birth certificate debate aside already.

Even if there is creedance to it it just smacks of sour grapes.

Reminds me of the "Stolen Election" whine.

We were talking about the Politicos buying themselves new jets were we not?

[mookiemookie]

You know what's ironic?

I find the tactics these consulting firms sometimes use to be outrageous and deplorable - no matter what side they are on.

Now, where's your outrage against ACORN?

It's very difficult for an objective observer to take anyone who's so intellectually ... self-deceiving seriously.

Not to pick on you, but you do seem to be very particular with your outrage.

I have no outrage over ACORN. They champion get out the vote campaigns for poor and minority citizens, most of whom traditionally vote democratic. No wonder they're going to be in the sights of the GOP.

As for voter fraud? You mean to tell me if you hire part time, minimum wage paid people to get lists of voters to register, some of them are going to make up names instead of beating the streets? I...uh..can't really say I'm shocked or outraged over that. Especially given the fact that fake registered voters =/= fake votes.

I could be accused of being selective about my outrage, but that's just if you look at what I say here in GT. I actually get a smile out of forcing people to back up their BS. To make grandiose claims with no basis is intellectually self decieving and lowers the level of discourse. I say if you're going to make a statement, you better be sure as this is the internet and people can fact check you in seconds.

Just trying to raise the level of debate, that's all. :03:

[AVGWarhawk]

No problem with ACORN? Check out the latest embezzlement charges? Tax payer funded embezzlement charges!

http://www.rottenacorn.com/070908_statement.html

[SteamWake]

I have no outrage over ACORN. They champion get out the vote campaigns for poor and minority citizens, most of whom traditionally vote democratic.

Be they dead or alive :har:

[SteamWake]

What is wrong with this? These aircraft will belong to the airforce which has a responsibility to move people around.

We have no idea what kind of modifications will be done to these aircraft so grouping them in with luxury craft CEOs use is very premature.

Heh... it seems the Air Force dident ask for all these!

The latest example comes with the House approving more than $500 million for eight passenger jets, when the Air Force only asked for four.



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/05/house-pencils-millions-jets-air-force-did-request/?test=latestnews

[Sailor Steve]

For cryin out loud put the damn birth certificate debate aside already.

Even if there is creedance to it it just smacks of sour grapes.

Reminds me of the "Stolen Election" whine.
Hear! Hear!

We were talking about the Politicos buying themselves new jets were we not?
Yes we were. Not trying to change the subject myself, just offering up another example. Way back when Congress first decided to hire chaplains, James Madison wrote that the taxpayers shouldn't be billed, the congressmen should pay for them out of their own pockets. The same still holds today: any transportation that doesn't directly involve Congressional business should be paid for by the people involved. Of course they'll say that that trip to St. Croix was 'business', as was lunch with the senator from Tennessee.

These people routinely waste our money, and then blame anybody and everybody but themselves.

[Aramike]

I have no outrage over ACORN. They champion get out the vote campaigns for poor and minority citizens, most of whom traditionally vote democratic. No wonder they're going to be in the sights of the GOP.

As for voter fraud? You mean to tell me if you hire part time, minimum wage paid people to get lists of voters to register, some of them are going to make up names instead of beating the streets? I...uh..can't really say I'm shocked or outraged over that. Especially given the fact that fake registered voters =/= fake votes.So wait - you're okay with voter fraud so long as the people perpetuating it are ostensibly out there to register voters in your preferred party's demographic?

[mookiemookie]

So wait - you're okay with voter fraud so long as the people perpetuating it are ostensibly out there to register voters in your preferred party's demographic?

It's not voter fraud, as the names they turned in are not voters and never voted and never influenced the outcome of any election.

[Aramike]

It's not voter fraud, as the names they turned in are not voters and never voted and never influenced the outcome of any election.How do you know?

[Tchocky]

How do you know?

Go nuts.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/acorn_accusations.html

[SteamWake]

You might ask, Where has the U.S. Department of Justice been in all of this? After all, they are supposed to be enforcing HAVA. Why didn't they sue the Ohio secretary of state themselves? Why haven't they sued the Wisconsin Board of Elections, which is also not complying with Section 303? (The Wisconsin state attorney general was forced to file such a suit, a suit that may now be in jeopardy due to the Supreme Court's holding.) Only Michael Mukasey knows whether DOJ will finally starting enforcing the law and search for ACORNs in Buckeye country, or allow potential fraud to go completely uninvestigated.


http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed102108b.cfm

[mookiemookie]

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed102108b.cfm

How is that an ACORN problem? They legally have to submit all voter registrations, real or fake. Imagine if a voter registration organization could pick and choose which ones they wanted to submit...it'd be easy to throw out the ones you thought were going to vote against your party by saying they looked fake.

[AVGWarhawk]

Imagine if a voter registration organization could pick and choose which ones they wanted to submit...it'd be easy to throw out the ones you thought were going to vote against your party by saying they looked fake.

You have some hard evidence ACORN does not practice this? :hmmm: So you are saying in a predominantly democratic neighborhood if one person steps forward and fills out the form as a republican the form will be submitted by an ACORN prepresentative? There is no funny stuff at all? :06:


They legally have to submit all voter registrations, real or fake.


And legally they are not to embezzle. Oh well.

[Aramike]

How is that an ACORN problem? They legally have to submit all voter registrations, real or fake. Imagine if a voter registration organization could pick and choose which ones they wanted to submit...it'd be easy to throw out the ones you thought were going to vote against your party by saying they looked fake.In any case, you've already stated that you don't mind some kind of fraud so long as it's in the interest of your party.

Hence, my point about your outrage being selective stands.

Wouldn't it be amazing if we could all just put our party affiliations aside and call a duck a duck?

For instance, I agree that so-called "astroturfing" exists and is a crappy tactic, no matter who uses is. Also, I believe that voter registration organizations that target political demographics, and ALLOW for a measure of fraud, are crappy organizations. I don't care what side they're on.

[mookiemookie]

In any case, you've already stated that you don't mind some kind of fraud so long as it's in the interest of your party.


Did I?

[AVGWarhawk]

Did I?

In a round about way. That is how I interpreted your view of ACORN and how it operates.

[Aramike]

In a round about way. That is how I interpreted your view of ACORN and how it operates.Indeed.

Ask yourself this, mookie: how come it is so easy for you to find justification for the transgressions of your party, while being outraged at the transgressions of the other side?

The funny thing is, independant thinking is FAR easier than keeping up with the BS and spin from the party you choose to affiliate with, but so many people would rather just go with the party line.

[SteamWake]

Ahem... er back on topic.

Pentagon Takes Aim at Jets for Congressional Travel

Appropriations for Weapons and Other Items Drain Resources Needed to Fight Wars, Says a Spokesman for Defense Secretary

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124969431303416161.html

[SteamWake]

"Yes we can"

If not for public awarness and outcry over this debacle it would have slid on through.


After an uproar over a proposed purchase of new executive jets for use by senior government officials, including members of Congress, the top Defense appropriator in the House has offered to eliminate funding for the planes – but only if the Pentagon, which operates the jets, agrees.

Read more: "http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26000.html#ixzz0NtB10AWQ