Psycho Drama Queen 1, President status -5

[Onkel Neal]

Well, at least he got them released, (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124938154079404323.html) but it's not a good precendent, for a president.

The psychotic next door neighbor has kidnapped your kid and you have to go and have cookies, make nice, and share a photo op to get her back.:nope:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0804/csmimg/ANKBILL_P1.jpg

[Max2147]

Well, Clinton has gotten more out of North Korea than anybody else in recent history.

Kim isn't insane. He's actually one of the most rational leaders out there. The insanity is just an act - and a very clever one at that. The prospect of an unpredictable madman with nukes is a lot scarier than the prospect of a rational leader with a talent for self-preservation with nukes.

[Takeda Shingen]

Well, Clinton has gotten more out of North Korea than anybody else in recent history.

Kim isn't insane. He's actually one of the most rational leaders out there. The insanity is just an act - and a very clever one at that. The prospect of an unpredictable madman with nukes is a lot scarier than the prospect of a rational leader with a talent for self-preservation with nukes.

Right. The entire social, economic, military and diplomatic status of North Korea is just an act, as is the fact that the man believes that he is running a powerful and prosperous nation. The man's an unhinged loon, with a god-complex to boot, as is most of his regime.

One of the most rational leaders out there? C'mon.

[AVGWarhawk]

Give the devil his due....I have to applaud Clinton for this! I'm not sure what it is about slick Willy but he is very persuasive as we know. Many a pants have been charmed off by Bill Clinton. So, kudos for Bill. Now, if he could just get them to give up the nukes. :hmmm:

Hmmmm.....wonder if Bill is eyeballing another term. :hmmm:

[SteamWake]

The psychotic next door neighbor has kidnapped your kid and you have to go and have cookies, make nice, and share a photo op to get her back.:nope:



Something tells me there was more than cookies and a photo op involved. ;)

By the way dont you think Hillary must be absolutly steamed. Showed up by the old man again !

[Max2147]

Right. The entire social, economic, military and diplomatic status of North Korea is just an act, as is the fact that the man believes that he is running a powerful and prosperous nation. The man's an unhinged loon, with a god-complex to boot, as is most of his regime.

One of the most rational leaders out there? C'mon.
Rational does not mean good. I never said Kim was a good leader, he's not.

But the whole unstable madman thing is a very clever act. People who have met him say he's nothing like that. Albright said that all the intel she got on Kim for her 1998 visit was completely wrong. They told her that he was a madman, but when she got there it was obvious that he was very rational. He knew what he wanted, and he knew how he was going to get it. The nukes have always been bargaining chips, and his insanity act makes the nukes a lot more valuable to NK in negotiations.

During Bush's presidency, it became very clear that Kim knew how to push the US's buttons. When Bush came into office, nobody could have imagined that North Korea would be able to escape unpunished with a nuclear test, and that there would be serious talks of creating full diplomatic ties between the US and NK.

You have to remember that Kim's goal isn't to run the greatest country in the world. He just wants to stay in power and continue living the high life in his palaces, and he's pretty darn good at doing that.

[Onkel Neal]

Rational does not mean good. I never said Kim was a good leader, he's not.

But the whole unstable madman thing is a very clever act.



You have to be kidding. :haha:

Seriously, the man has the entire country at his feet, he has two TV channels running programs about him 24/7, portraying him as a deity. That's insane, and even thinking about it makes me feel a little crazy.



You have to remember that Kim's goal isn't to run the greatest country in the world. He just wants to stay in power and continue living the high life in his palaces, and he's pretty darn good at doing that.

That degree of selfishness and tyranny is insane too!

[FIREWALL]

I think your offbase on this one Max while I usally like your posts.

Btw I sometimes think Neal is a nut too. :rotfl:

This time I think he's right on the money bet here.

Kim is the kind of Nut that likes to poke the sleeping dog.

A vicous DOG.:arrgh!:

[Onkel Neal]

I think your offbase on this one Max while I usally like your posts.

Btw I sometimes think Neal is a nut too. :rotfl:

This time I think he's right on the money bet here.

Kim is the kind of Nut that likes to poke the sleeping dog.

A vicous DOG.:arrgh!:

Yeah, but I don't have a 24 hour Neal Channel. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tExV64tX1YY) :O:

[Max2147]

You have to be kidding. :haha:

Seriously, the man has the entire country at his feet, he has two TV channels running programs about him 24/7, portraying him as a deity. That's insane, and even thinking about it makes me feel a little crazy.

That degree of selfishness and tyranny is insane too!
Remember, a selfish dictator's goals for their country are different than a normal leader's. All they want to do is stay in power and have all the country's resources going to themselves.

With that in mind, the total brainwashing of the population is brilliant. Kim is the one leader in the world who doesn't have to worry about feeding his people. They can starve and they still won't revolt. They need a bit of food to keep them alive, but the US provides almost all of it as part of the nuclear negotiations. Kim can take all the resources a normal leader would have to put into feeding and taking care of their population and use it to make life more luxurious for himself.

I'm not saying this is the right way to run a country, and I certainly don't admire Kim. The guy's a devil. But he's an cunning and rational devil, not a madman.

[FIREWALL]

Hey Neal :DL

Nobodys pokeing you with a stick. :rotfl:YET !!! :haha:


Grrrrrr. :rotfl:

[PeriscopeDepth]

The release had been worked out prior to Clinton's trip. Clinton would NEVER have gone without knowing that they would be released if he came. Just more of North Korea getting a big boy response for acting like a spoiled child.

PD

[FIREWALL]

At somewhat closer look is BO getting ready to tahe it in the Rear ? :haha::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

And there's Clinton is sitting there watching with a straight face.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Mush Martin]

in the perspective of having inherited a privately owned country from
his father, its not that surprising that he uses media restriction and propaganda saturation to keep it.... ;wouldnt you?

Somebody please explain to me why every time I try to
type an apostrophe or backslash it wont type but pulls
up the page text search bar.... anybody I am going to
terminate my computer with extreeeeeeme predjudice
if this keeps on.

[Max2147]

The release had been worked out prior to Clinton's trip. Clinton would NEVER have gone without knowing that they would be released if he came. Just more of North Korea getting a big boy response for acting like a spoiled child.

PD
You're almost certainly right. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the personal visit from Clinton wasn't the main condition for their release. For one thing, it proves pretty conclusively that Kim is still alive.

[August]

Remember, a selfish dictator's goals for their country are different than a normal leader's. All they want to do is stay in power and have all the country's resources going to themselves.

With that in mind, the total brainwashing of the population is brilliant. Kim is the one leader in the world who doesn't have to worry about feeding his people. They can starve and they still won't revolt. They need a bit of food to keep them alive, but the US provides almost all of it as part of the nuclear negotiations. Kim can take all the resources a normal leader would have to put into feeding and taking care of their population and use it to make life more luxurious for himself.

I'm not saying this is the right way to run a country, and I certainly don't admire Kim. The guy's a devil. But he's an cunning and rational devil, not a madman.

I have to agree Max. If Kim were half the madman the world media portrays him as then somebody in the regime would have Caligula'd his butt by now. To stay in power in such a political system (or lack thereof) one has to be cunning.

[Takeda Shingen]

With that in mind, the total brainwashing of the population is brilliant. Kim is the one leader in the world who doesn't have to worry about feeding his people. They can starve and they still won't revolt. They need a bit of food to keep them alive, but the US provides almost all of it as part of the nuclear negotiations. Kim can take all the resources a normal leader would have to put into feeding and taking care of their population and use it to make life more luxurious for himself.

Or, perhaps Kim's 'brilliance' stems from the fact that the regime has all the guns. Oh, and rational leaders have former heads of state over by conducting peaceful diplomacy, not the shotgun variety.

[Max2147]

Or, perhaps Kim's 'brilliance' stems from the fact that the regime has all the guns. Oh, and rational leaders have former heads of state over by conducting peaceful diplomacy, not the shotgun variety.
There have been plenty of regimes that had all the guns and still fell. North Korea isn't one of them because they've written the book on how to oppress, exploit, brainwash, and indoctrinate an entire population.

[CastleBravo]

There have been plenty of regimes that had all the guns and still fell. North Korea isn't one of them because they've written the book on how to oppress, exploit, brainwash, and indoctrinate an entire population.

Kinda like this?

http://www.blip.tv/file/1312572 (http://www.blip.tv/file/1312572)

PS this was originally posted on YouTube but was scrubbed.

[Takeda Shingen]

There have been plenty of regimes that had all the guns and still fell. North Korea isn't one of them because they've written the book on how to oppress, exploit, brainwash, and indoctrinate an entire population.

Yeah, but those regimes fell because the people got their hands on the guns. That's not happening in North Korea.

Still, we reach an impasse. You assert that the apparent zeal of the North Korean populace is through the sucessful brainwashing via state-sponsored outlets. I assert that the apparent zeal is a forced dance at gunpoint. You could be wrong. I could be wrong. We both could be wrong. We both could be right. Who really knows?

[Max2147]

Yeah, but those regimes fell because the people got their hands on the guns. That's not happening in North Korea.

Still, we reach an impasse. You assert that the apparent zeal of the North Korean populace is through the sucessful brainwashing via state-sponsored outlets. I assert that the apparent zeal is a forced dance at gunpoint. You could be wrong. I could be wrong. We both could be wrong. We both could be right. Who really knows?
I think you're picking up on the wrong issue. It doesn't really matter whether the zeal of the North Koreans is due to brainwashing or force. Either way, it's the product of a systematic and rational program, not the random musings of a madman.

I think too many people here are equating systematic and rational with good. That's not the case. The Holocaust was systematic and rational, and it was all the more evil because of that.

I'm not trying to praise Kim Jong-Il in any way. I'm just saying that he's not the deranged madman that he pretends to be, especially when it comes to international affairs.

[Onkel Neal]

I have to agree Max. If Kim were half the madman the world media portrays him as then somebody in the regime would have Caligula'd his butt by now. To stay in power in such a political system (or lack thereof) one has to be cunning.

Like Stalin? Hitler?

Ok then, a cunning madman.

[August]

Like Stalin? Hitler?

Ok then, a cunning madman.


Once the war turned against hitler he was indeed the subject of assassination attempts. Had the war not turned in favor of the Russians when it did I wouldn't have been surprised to see stalin subject to the same.

[Onkel Neal]

Known and agreed, plus there's no war in NK at this time.

[Mush Martin]

The Motives are mad the methods are common.

[Task Force]

wow... Hillary actualy let Bill be alone with anouther woman...:o:rotfl:

[SteamWake]

wow... Hillary actualy let Bill be alone with anouther woman...:o:rotfl:

Two young Asian women to be exact.

I wonder if their parents had hesitations :rotfl:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/05/nkorea.journalists.background/

[Task Force]

I guess those journalists wont be visiting NK anytime soon.:rotfl:

and what the hell kind of name is Kim Jong-Il... sounds like a disease...

What does he have doctor...

Kim Jong-Il... I sorry...

[Platapus]

I just hope these two ladies don't get rich writing a book about their irresponsible behaviour.

If they do make money off of this, I think they need to pay back the government for all the expenses of bringing their butts back.

I have little sympathy for "journalists" who feel they are above the laws. :nope:

[Captain Vlad]

They're out. The rest is superfluous crap.:03:

[Takeda Shingen]

I just hope these two ladies don't get rich writing a book about their irresponsible behaviour.

If they do make money off of this, I think they need to pay back the government for all the expenses of bringing their butts back.

I have little sympathy for "journalists" who feel they are above the laws. :nope:

I agree, and would also add those three hikers who decided to go and play on the Iranian border. I'd let them rot.

[AVGWarhawk]

I will wait for the movie :D

[XabbaRus]

Jong-Il is his first name, Kim is his surname.

The Koreans like to list them back to front.

[Task Force]

I will wait for the movie :D


OMG... I just heard on the news that someone is talking about akeing a movie...:o

They gotta make a movie out of everything nowdays.:rotfl:

[nikimcbee]

man this picture belongs in the funny caption thread!:hmmm:


Me love you rong time Birr Crinton

Bill: I see you've been in Hillary's closet again:har:
Kim: Yeh, I make trade; reporters for pantsuit. Me rikey a rot.:haha:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0804/csmimg/ANKBILL_P1.jpg

[SteamWake]

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/KimCrazy.jpg

[geetrue]

China is more than just a neighbor to Korea ...

Most of you weren't even born yet when America once again took up arms to defend Korea ... there was no North and South Korea till the war was over.

We (the USA) ran into a very strong army and airforce all manned by the red chinese. The migs kicked our butts, but our pilots were better trained and over came anyway.

Truman had to fire his top general to keep the peace due his suggestion to solve the Korean problem with ten nukes into China ... :hmmm:

Not good said Truman and in hindsight I think we can all agree it was a bad idea.


The future President of North Korean was only 10 years old in the days of his countries conflict and was actually born in a Soviet refugee camp.

But back to the arguement of a crazy dying dictator being in charge of at least ten nuclear weapons with a missiles that have already been tested to the 2,000 mile mark ... here's a great article summing it up ... long but I couldn't stop reading it and I know how ya'll hate to click on links.

Food for thought: http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed080409c.cfm

August 4, 2009
North Korea: Master of Mayhem
by Peter Brookes (http://www.subsim.com/about/staff/PeterBrookes.cfm)



Perhaps no country is in the news more these days for troublemaking than North Korea. Run by a diminutive dictator, the Stalinist police state is adept at causing problems on--and beyond--the Korean peninsula.
Indeed, from its large army and the proliferation of ballistic missiles to nuclear tests and the counterfeiting of American cash, reclusive North Korea is the world's master of mayhem.
Taking a peek behind the Bamboo Curtain, it is easy to see why many consider North Korea one of the world's oddest countries--and one of its most dangerous.

Kim Cult
Perhaps nothing is more peculiar than the cult of personality that has been erected around 68-year-old North Korean leader Kim Jong Il. According to the state-run media, he's a man of significant intellect and accomplishment.
His official biography states that when Kim was born on Korea's mythical Mount Paekdu in the early 1940s, a rare double rainbow appeared across the sky in celebration of his arrival. (He was actually born in a Soviet refugee camp.)
Kim is also an accomplished golfer--a veritable North Korean Tiger Woods--who, according to Pyongyang legend, scored a number of holes-in-one during his first-ever round of the game.
He also has a great mind. As lore would have it, he is a polymath and reportedly a "genius of 10,000 talents." As a university student, he is said to have penned more than 1,000 not book reports but books.
Kim, known as the "Dear Leader," also gives "on-the-spot guidance" at factories, farms and military units around the Mississippi-sized country, where his words are immortalized in stone monuments at the exact place they were given.
But the enigmatic and reclusive Kim suffered a stroke last fall and may not be long for this Earth. Continuing a dynasty started by his father, the "Great Leader" Kim Il Sung, he has chosen a progeny to succeed him.
It appears he chose one of his three sons (by two wives), the 26 year-old Kim Jong Un, to run the "Kim-dom" when he goes. The young Kim has been put in charge of North Korea's notorious intelligence bureau, well-known for terrorism and kidnapping.
If he does well there, the next step will be taking over the military, the real power behind the Kim throne.

Monstrous Military
North Korea is a martial state, where, despite a Third-World economic status, Pyongyang spends at least one-third of its paltry gross domestic product on the military.
With that money, North Korea fields a million-man army capable of striking out at South Korean and American forces with little notice across the misnamed demilitarized zone (DMZ). While the Korean People's Army (KPA) is generally poorly equipped, it is lethal, and if another Korean war broke out, hundreds of thousands would likely become casualties in the opening days of the conflict. (The South Korean capital, Seoul, is located 25 miles south of the DMZ and its metropolitan area has a population of nearly 25 million.)
Pyongyang also has the world's largest special operations forces, estimated at more than 100,000 soldiers, which would be infiltrated into South Korea before any conflict, including via yet-undiscovered tunnels under the DMZ.
But North Korea can bring more firepower than that to bear if war breaks out.

Nukes R Us
No country rattles the nuclear saber more than North Korea. Recently, the rhetoric has been particularly shrill with threats of nuclear war and "a fire shower of nuclear retaliation" if the United States attacked.
This, of course, is not a totally hollow threat as North Korea has been a member of the once-exclusive nuclear weapons club since 2006, when it conducted its first nuclear test. In May, it conducted its second.
Pyongyang, which probably already has six to eight nukes, is also promising to increase the size of its arsenal, which is entirely possible since it recently re-opened the Yongbyong nuclear facility.
North Korean nukes are not only a threat to U.S. troops in South Korea and Japan, but they also present a major challenge to keeping a lid on the number of existing nuclear weapon-capable countries.
In September 2007, the Israelis destroyed an undisclosed Syrian nuclear reactor being built by the North Koreans. The question, of course, is who else is Pyongyang cooperating with on nuclear matters?
How about Tehran? North Korea is already cooperating with Iran on its ballistic missile program. In fact, the Iranian Shahab medium-range missile is based on the North Korean No-Dong missile design.
Making matters worse, North Korea is working on putting a nuclear warhead atop its ballistic missiles.

Going Ballistic
The Defense Intelligence Agency told Congress this spring that North Korea may be able to mate a nuclear weapon to a ballistic missile of some unspecified range.
Of course, the most frightening prospect is North Korea being able to put a nuke on top of an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) that can reach American soil, including Hawaii and Alaska. Unfortunately, they are working on such a missile.
The North Korean Taepo-Dong missile is believed to have ICBM potential. In fact, a test launch this spring--while not entirely successful--did result in Pyongyang shooting a missile further than ever before.
The Taepo-Dong launch, done under the guise of a satellite shot, traveled more than 2,000 miles into the Pacific Ocean. (No satellite was put into orbit, and it is not clear there ever was one.)
A North Korean missile would have to travel 3,700 miles to strike Anchorage; 4,500 miles to reach Honolulu; and, 4,700 miles to hit Seattle. No doubt that capability is on the drawing board--and no doubt others, who are unfriendly to America, would probably be interested getting their hands on it, too.
But if you think dealing with the North Korean threat is hell, try living there.

Hell on Earth
Life in North Korea is nothing short of a living nightmare. There are virtually no personal freedoms as all civil liberties are considered a threat to the Communist regime.
Political loyalty is demanded. Every home and office has pictures of the Great and Dear Leaders prominently displayed. Party members wear a lapel pin to show their fealty.
Propaganda is the word of the day. Radios and TVs are hard-wired to pre-set frequencies. North Koreans are subjected to constant martial music and B-grade Korean War flicks--this time, they win!
Failure to play by the rules could mean a bullet in the head or, worse yet, a one-way trip to one of Kim's labor camps.
North Korea imprisons more than 200,000 men, women and children in an estimated 10 hard-labor political prison camps. Some reports suggest that more than 500,000 have perished in the Stalinist gulags since they were established in the early 1970s.
While life in the camps is not laughable, some of the "crimes" are. They include watching a South Korean soap opera, saying something negative about the Dear Leader, attempting to defect or reading "subversive" material.
One story from a State Department report claims a comrade was sent off to prison camp for having accidentally sat on a newspaper that included a picture of the Dear Leader.
Entire families are sent to the gulag because of a single family member's offense. Female prisoners, who become pregnant--sometimes due to rape by prison guards--often undergo forced abortions. Infanticide is common.
Tragically, prisoners are not sent to the gulag for re-education, but to perish--either at the hands of guards or from disease, hunger or hard labor.
It is not so great outside the camps, either. North Korea has been fighting a famine since 1995. Natural disasters such as annual floods account for some of the food shortages, but most is due to failed agricultural and economic policies. As a result, as many as 3 million people may have died. Many children born during the famine have been orphaned and now suffer from mental and physical handicaps due to severe malnutrition in early life. Defectors report cannibalism.
And while North Korea has received international food aid, relief groups report Pyongyang uses food as a weapon, directing aid to society's most loyal segments, while withholding it from others.
People have subsisted on twigs, bark and grass for years. Local cooperatives mix grass with grain to produce horrid, drab olive "Franken-food." (For humans, grass has absolutely no nutritional value.) Hospitals are little more than hospices.
But life is not that way for all.

SopranoState
North Korea is a gangster nation, pocketing as much as $1 billion a year in illegal international activity--and providing a tidy little slush fund for the Dear Leader's needs and pleasures. The money not only keeps Kim living in luxury, but it also buys loyalty from the military, security services and other elite--key to Kim staying in power.
Pyongyang runs a range of crime-for-profit schemes. For instance, according to defectors, North Korea has been involved in opium and methamphetamine production and trafficking over the years.
North Korea is also the top counterfeiter of U.S. currency, especially the $100 bill. Since the first "supernote" was revealed in 1989, Pyongyang has printed new versions to keep up with the U.S. Mint's changes to the greenback.
Pyongyang also sells a slew of other counterfeit goods: cigarettes, U.S. postage stamps, Viagara, blue jeans, gold, diamonds, weapons, ivory and even rhino horn.
Unfortunately, there is nothing to indicate North Korea will change its tough-guy stance anytime soon. That is certainly a shame for the North Korean people, who remain victims of the world's most repressive regime.
But Pyongyang's mobster-like behavior also dangerously increases the chance of misperception and miscalculation that could easily lead to very unpleasant consequences for North Koreans--and others as well.

Peter Brookes (http://www.subsim.com/about/staff/PeterBrookes.cfm) is senior fellow for National Security Affairs in the Davis Institute at The Heritage Foundation.





First Appeared in Townhall Magazine

[Carotio]

There is rationality within insanity...

NK may have a leader(ship), which makes some pretty wild decisions to upkeep a military and let their own population starve to death, if doomed necessary. The ever staying protection force of US troops in SK is regarded in NK as an ever ready invasion force. AFAIK there ain't peace in Korea, only a cease-fire, so go figure....

I agree with most of what has been written by Max2147. I don't think Kim Jong-Il is a madman, technically. He has the brain to stay in power, because his country ain't invaded yet due to his policy of showing and reminding the opponent of the worst-case-scenario if the invasion begins.

Now that NK does have nuclear capacity, there's only diplomacy left as weapon to defeat his regime. Unless someone in the west wants to be responsible for a nuclear inferno on their own soil, and I guess noone is. And that is exactly what Kim Jong-Il knows. So he continues his playing the cat and mouse to stay in power. He still dreams of reuniting the two Koreas, and I'm most certain that he prefers a communist Korea. But none in SK wants that. So this will be status quo for yet a long time, I'm afraid.