is the Obama Care money issue this simple?

[GoldenRivet]

QUESTION: Where does the money used to pay for obama's SocialistCare come from?

ANSWER: The Federal Government

QUESTION: Where does the Federal Government get its money?

ANSWER: From you, the tax payer

QUESTION: So explain to me again how my tax money is not paying for SocialistCare?

ANSWER: Ummmm....

[FIREWALL]

Beleive it or not John. There's people on THIS website that want You to pay their Freight.

[Sailor Steve]

That's always been my biggest headache with people who want social reforms: convincing them that government cannot create revenues. It produces nothing worth buying, so it can only exist by taxes. In the case of police and fire departments, road construction, even the military, this is a necessary thing. I was going to say good, but it is my confirmed belief that the only way to guarantee a safe government is to mandate that anyone in a position to levy taxes be required to understand that they are, in the best cases, still only a necessary evil.

Of course that's also impossible.

Another fun one: when I say that government makes no money, I always get the answer "That's silly. The government is the only one who can make money." Explaining that printing paper that says 'Money' on it and actually earning revenue are two entirely different things is an excersise in frustration.

[AVGWarhawk]

Beleive it or not John. There's people on THIS website that want You to pay their Freight.

GASP!!!! NFW!!! :har: Of course there is. :har:

[FIREWALL]

Very well put Steve. :up:

Why is it taxpayers are told not to spend more than we bring in ? :DL

But Government doe's it with a passion. :haha:

[AVGWarhawk]

Very well put Steve. :up:

Why is it taxpayers are told not to spend more than we bring in ? :DL

But Government doe's it with a passion. :haha:


Because they can:doh:

[Tchocky]

Weeeell, most countries that adopt single-payer health care spend less of their GDP on healthcare than the United States, and achieve better or comparable results.

quick wiki link- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Canadian_health_care_in_comp arison

So, if the government pays for health care financed through taxes, and the country spends less money on healthcare overall, then you've got more money to spend on other things. In a way, the government is helping out.

Being paid for in tax revenues, naturally this runs up against the taxes-are-bad idea.

EDIT - Socialism! It'll eat your children!

[SteamWake]

Weeeell, most countries that adopt single-payer health care spend less of their GDP on healthcare than the United States, and achieve better or comparable results.!

Yes of course thats why people from all over the world come to the US for care.

http://yedda.com/questions/Canadian_Socialized_Health_Care_1869107797311/

[Max2147]

People from all over the world also go to Cuba for medical care. Does that mean their system is better than ours?

[SteamWake]

People from all over the world also go to Cuba for medical care. Does that mean their system is better than ours?

Only one that Im aware of is Michal Moore :rotfl:

No really who the hell goes to Cuba for healthcare?

[Sea Demon]

Well, the other side of the coin is I don't see many Americans leaving the USA to get health care abroad.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, the other side of the coin is I don't see many Americans leaving the USA to get health care abroad.

Some do so they can attempt some radical type cures. Farrah Fawcett went to Germany for a radical type procedure for her cancer if I'm not mistaken.

[AVGWarhawk]

Only one that Im aware of is Michal Moore :rotfl:

No really who the hell goes to Cuba for healthcare?

Cuba, healthcare? Cuba is not really known for healthcare. Cigars and old cars maybe.

[Sea Demon]

Some do so they can attempt some radical type cures. Farrah Fawcett went to Germany for a radical type procedure for her cancer if I'm not mistaken.

Correct. That's why I said "not many". When they do, it always seems to be something radical in mind they seek. Most don't seek health care abroad because what they get here is better for the most part (routine health care and procedures).

[FIREWALL]

Some do so they can attempt some radical type cures. Farrah Fawcett went to Germany for a radical type procedure for her cancer if I'm not mistaken.

For what good it did her. :O:

[FIREWALL]

Well, the other side of the coin is I don't see many Americans leaving the USA to get health care abroad.


I remember some years back, Americans going to the Soviet Union for inexpensive Radial Eye surgury.


Their all on disability now. Legally Blind.:o :haha:

[AVGWarhawk]

Correct. That's why I said "not many". When they do, it always seems to be something radical in mind they seek. Most don't seek health care abroad because what they get here is better for the most part (routine health care and procedures).


Very true. The FDA and Surgeon General preclude some procedures or medications thus forcing some to try different methods in other countries.

[Tchocky]

Cuba, healthcare? Cuba is not really known for healthcare. Cigars and old cars maybe.
Cuba has a well-established internationally popular healthcare system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Cuba_and_international_healthca re

[Tchocky]

Yes of course thats why people from all over the world come to the US for care.

http://yedda.com/questions/Canadian_Socialized_Health_Care_1869107797311/

Canada - 33 million people.
USA - 300 million people.

Inside those two populations, and those two systems, you will find anecdotal evidence for just about anything.
I would argue that, on balance, the Canadian system comes out on top because it's services are open to all citizens, not just those with insurance. Those who pay for healthcare there are not trying to avoid paying at all costs.


Also, the link you posted is wrong-headed.

Here are some excerpts from Canadian Press about the Socialized Health in Canada. Again this is what Obama and the American media don't want Americans to know. This is the health care coming to the United States under the Obama plan.
The most likely plan to emerge from committee stage will be nothing like the Canadian system. Obama is not working for a system mirroring that of Canada.

EDIT - I love the Danger Danger Capitalisation.

[AVGWarhawk]

Cuba has a well-established internationally popular healthcare system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Cuba_and_international_healthca re

Well...in my world Cuba is not know for healthcare. Cigars and old cars come from Cuba. I'm not sure how Cuba looks in the Ruins of Europe. When I think healthcare..Cuba does not make the list. I think you will find that with most folks when asked.

[Tchocky]

Well, in the US you're not legally allowed to go to Cuba for anything, so I'm not surprised that you don't think of it.

I'm not saying Cuba is a model nation for healthcare, I'm echoing what Max147 is saying, that many people travel to Cuba for healthcare, mostly from latin America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Cuba

[SteamWake]

Well, in the US you're not legally allowed to go to Cuba for anything, so I'm not surprised that you don't think of it.

I'm not saying Cuba is a model nation for healthcare, I'm echoing what Max147 is saying, that many people travel to Cuba for healthcare, mostly from latin America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Cuba

Well when compared to other countries in Latin America I suppose that Cuba is a shining bastion of modern healthcare. As opposed to say Hati :up:

[Tchocky]

Higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US. Just sayin;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Cuba#Comparison_of_pre-_and_post-revolutionary_indices

[Sea Demon]

Higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US. Just sayin;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Cuba#Comparison_of_pre-_and_post-revolutionary_indices

And I wouldn't want to live in or participate in the health care systems of either Canada or Cuba. Just sayin....

And from practical experience, most of my fellow Americans seem to agree as they aren't exactly rushing your borders for health care. It's actually quite the opposite.

[Platapus]

Reminds me of what a reporter said after the Savings and Loan Scandal.

"why should the taxpayer pay for the bailout, let the federal government pay for it" :damn:

[Max2147]

The US healthcare system is great - if you can pay for all of it.

People who travel abroad for medical care generally fly first class or take their own private jets. For those people, the US is generally the best option. Americans who are rich enough to travel abroad for healthcare can usually afford the best care here, so they don't need to travel.

The people who get screwed by the American healthcare system are those who can't afford to travel abroad for care. Those people would be better off under a European-style system, but they can't afford to go to Europe for healthcare.

That said, I have plenty of friends who have been in countries with socialized medicine for other reasons, and had to use their systems. All of them have raved about the quality of care and the low cost.

In countries with single payer systems there is still the option for private insurance for those who can afford it. But the public option is so good that almost nobody uses the private option.

[antikristuseke]

The US healthcare system is great - if you can pay for all of it.

People who travel abroad for medical care generally fly first class or take their own private jets. For those people, the US is generally the best option. Americans who are rich enough to travel abroad for healthcare can usually afford the best care here, so they don't need to travel.

The people who get screwed by the American healthcare system are those who can't afford to travel abroad for care. Those people would be better off under a European-style system, but they can't afford to go to Europe for healthcare.

That said, I have plenty of friends who have been in countries with socialized medicine for other reasons, and had to use their systems. All of them have raved about the quality of care and the low cost.

In countries with single payer systems there is still the option for private insurance for those who can afford it. But the public option is so good that almost nobody uses the private option.

This. There is truth in the above statement.

[Tribesman]

Well...in my world Cuba is not know for healthcare.
Perhaps you should visit the wider world for a look.

Well, in the US you're not legally allowed to go to Cuba for anything, so I'm not surprised that you don't think of it.
There is a limit placed on the number of US doctors who are allowed to get their training in Cuba.
If I recall correctly its only 200 doctors a year.

People who travel abroad for medical care generally fly first class or take their own private jets.
More and more US companies are providing their employees with foriegn health treatment as part of their cover , its cheaper than using the current expensive bloated system in the States.

And from practical experience, most of my fellow Americans seem to agree as they aren't exactly rushing your borders for health care. It's actually quite the opposite
Numbers don't back that up , a single Asian hospitals yearly intake of US health tourists manages to nearly equal the the entire number of health tourist the US recieves.

[AVGWarhawk]

I realize every country has their success stories and their horror stories when it comes to health care. What vibes I'm getting are few but probably a concern of most.

1. Enough doctors and general practioners for all?
2. Doctors call the shots or a pencil pusher in DC?
3. If you do not pay into the system do you still get the health care benefits? (that right there is my biggest issue, free ride crap needs to stop)
4. ref #3, illegals get a piece of the action?

These are my concerns. Any others that might want to chime in?

[FIREWALL]

This. There is truth in the above statement.


My best friend who went with new wife to visit inlaws in Netherlands had a back injury there and a inlaw relation took him to her local Dr. They fixed him up no charge.

The system work then. 80's :woot:

Not a chance here.

[Platapus]

2. Doctors call the shots or a pencil pusher in DC?


Well one of the problems today is that doctors don't call the shots now. Some for-profit insurance company minion who is only interested in profit calls the shots.

Whether we have the current insurance coverage, or some federal program, the result will be the same. Doctors still not calling the shots and some nameless minion who has no care or concern about health making the rules. :nope:

[antikristuseke]

I realize every country has their success stories and their horror stories when it comes to health care. What vibes I'm getting are few but probably a concern of most.

1. Enough doctors and general practioners for all?
2. Doctors call the shots or a pencil pusher in DC?
3. If you do not pay into the system do you still get the health care benefits? (that right there is my biggest issue, free ride crap needs to stop)
4. ref #3, illegals get a piece of the action?

These are my concerns. Any others that might want to chime in?

As it applies to Estonia.
1. Yes
2. Doctors
3. No
4. Only first aid is provided for everyone.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, that is fine Anti however, if I pay for private insurance I should be exempt from paying via taxes for this univeral health care plan. It is as simple as that.

[antikristuseke]

That is fair ennough, can't say that I disagree with that.

[AVGWarhawk]

That is fair ennough, can't say that I disagree with that.

Sadly, I will have to agree with it if Obama gets his way. Time will tell. I have noticed quite a few town meetings on healthcare are turning into hell night.

[FIREWALL]

As it applies to Estonia.
1. Yes
2. Doctors
3. No
4. Only first aid is provided for everyone.

Looks like something the USA should lookat maybe.

Good Post Anti. :up:

[Monica Lewinsky]

Looks like something the USA should be looked at maybe.

Yea, maybe - I'd tell ya to look at your wallet FIRST and watch out for our Marxist Brother:

http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/Who_in_you_wallet.wmv

Who's in YOUR wallet?

[Max2147]

Well, that is fine Anti however, if I pay for private insurance I should be exempt from paying via taxes for this univeral health care plan. It is as simple as that.
So if I think the F-22 is a bad idea, does that mean I shouldn't have to pay for it?

[FIREWALL]

Yea, maybe - I'd tell ya to look at your wallet FIRST and watch out for our Marxist Brother:

http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/Who_in_you_wallet.wmv

Who's in YOUR wallet?

Why not everybody else do's . :haha:when I want to demo a sim purchase.

[Sea Demon]

So if I think the F-22 is a bad idea, does that mean I shouldn't have to pay for it?

Yes. You should have to pay for it. F-22 and other combat systems are common use items, and benefit citizens of the nation equally through common national defense. Although, some of us pay alot more into F-22 than others. hmmph.Your healthcare is not a common use item. It is your personal responsibility. It is regrettable if you don't make wise choices in your personal health, but it doesn't affect my life as an individual of this nation in any way to the outcome. Harsh but true. The social contract between government and citizen is reasonable taxation for common use items. Not government soaking citizens as ATM machines to pay for things that people should be paying for themselves.

[Max2147]

I think a population's health is just as important to its well-being as its defense.

But maybe the F-22 was a bad example. Let's use public schools. I don't have a kid. Does that mean I shouldn't have to pay the federal/state/local taxes that fund public schools? Why should I have to pay for some other kid's education?

You can't say that a program should only be paid for by those who use it when the entire reason the program exists is because the people who will use it can't afford to pay for it.

[Tchocky]

@ MAx, especially insurance. THis drives up costs for everyone.

[Sea Demon]

I think a population's health is just as important to its well-being as its defense.

But maybe the F-22 was a bad example. Let's use public schools. I don't have a kid. Does that mean I shouldn't have to pay the federal/state/local taxes that fund public schools? Why should I have to pay for some other kid's education?

You can't say that a program should only be paid for by those who use it when the entire reason the program exists is because the people who will use it can't afford to pay for it.

No offense Max, but your health care means absolutely nothing to me. I wish you the best in it, but your own personal decisions will affect your own health status, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. It is your own personal domain and personal responsibility. Hypothetically, I don't want to pay for it for you unless I have a say in your behaviors. Maybe taxpayers who shell out for you can have a say in your diet, mandate an exercise program, deny you the ability to smoke or drink, and anything else that would preclude my investment in your health from becoming a bad "investment". Of course, that is all a hypothetical. But I'm hoping the point is made. I don't go to work every day to pay for your personal life. If you disagree, do you think the taxpayers owe you some sort of Universal Auto insurance plan as well? What else do you feel the taxpayers owe you? If you can argue personal health care, the same illogic can be made for anything?

As far as public schools, I also think that those should also be more of a local and state concern as well. So yeah. I don't wish to steer this topic to schools, but we actually could get better results at less costs anyway if the feds weren't involved. Most private schools have proven better results when competing against others, even at less cost per student. While there are many great teachers in the public school system, I think that many of these teachers may be better off teaching in a system of local concern, and a more competitive environment. I am not a teacher, so I don't claim to be an expert here. And in fairness I haven't actually given much thought about it. But looking at it in one way, on the face of it, I don't think it's bad that parents take responsibility for the education of their children financially and otherwise.

But perhaps we can look at the education example as a lesson, prior to making the same mistake in health care. When the feds get involved it becomes bloated, does not always produce the desired results, and is costly and often filled with waste. I'm glad you brought up education. There is a lesson there to be learned.

[GoldenRivet]

No offense Max, but your health care means absolutely nothing to me. I wish you the best in it, but your own personal decisions will affect your own health status, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. It is your own personal domain and personal responsibility. Hypothetically, I don't want to pay for it for you unless I have a say in your behaviors. Maybe taxpayers who shell out for you can have a say in your diet, mandate an exercise program, deny you the ability to smoke or drink, and anything else that would preclude my investment in your health from becoming a bad "investment". Of course, that is all a hypothetical. But I'm hoping the point is made. I don't go to work every day to pay for your personal life. If you disagree, do you think the taxpayers owe you some sort of Universal Auto insurance plan as well? What else do you feel the taxpayers owe you? If you can argue personal health care, the same illogic can be made for anything?

100% right on the money :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

No offense Max, but your health care means absolutely nothing to me. I wish you the best in it, but your own personal decisions will affect your own health status, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. It is your own personal domain and personal responsibility. Hypothetically, I don't want to pay for it for you unless I have a say in your behaviors. Maybe taxpayers who shell out for you can have a say in your diet, mandate an exercise program, deny you the ability to smoke or drink, and anything else that would preclude my investment in your health from becoming a bad "investment". Of course, that is all a hypothetical. But I'm hoping the point is made. I don't go to work every day to pay for your personal life. If you disagree, do you think the taxpayers owe you some sort of Universal Auto insurance plan as well? What else do you feel the taxpayers owe you? If you can argue personal health care, the same illogic can be made for anything?



Beautiful Sea Demon....just beautiful!:up: I think you nailed it right on the head how I feel about universal healthcare at my expense. Why should I have to pay for Joey the ditch digger who finds it fun to fight every Friday night and get sewn up in the ER every Saturday morning? I should not have to.

[mookiemookie]

Beautiful Sea Demon....just beautiful!:up: I think you nailed it right on the head how I feel about universal healthcare at my expense. Why should I have to pay for Joey the ditch digger who finds it fun to fight every Friday night and get sewn up in the ER every Saturday morning? I should not have to.

Until you get a say in where you want tax dollars spent, that's exactly what you're doing now and will continue to do so. And you're paying double what other people around the world pay.

"Why should I have to pay for (insert whatever social service you want to hate on)? I don't use it, I don't have a say in how it's operated or who makes use of it." The logical end of that line of reasoning is to quit paying taxes.

I don't go to work every day to pay for your personal life.

Actually, you do. You work 4 months out of the year just to pay taxes. A large percentage of which go to Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, Social Security and various other social services.

[AVGWarhawk]

The logical end of that line of reasoning is to quit paying taxes.


No, the logical end of the line is to get people to get off the notion that someone owes them something and they are entitled.

I'm fine with paying double what the world pays. I enjoy the healthcare I have as a result. That, my friend, is my business in the end.

[AVGWarhawk]

Actually, you do. You work 4 months out of the year just to pay taxes. A large percentage of which go to Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, Social Security and various other social services.

And now you want to dump more bullsh!t on the tax payer? That is rich man, really rich. :shifty:

[mookiemookie]

And now you want to dump more bullsh!t on the tax payer? That is rich man, really rich. :shifty:

Do you think the net increase in taxes will be more than the net premiums paid to insurance companies that would go away under a universal healthcare system?

[SteamWake]

Do you think the net increase in taxes will be more than the net premiums paid to insurance companies that would go away under a universal healthcare system?

Go away ? :rotfl:

If you dont think that the "BIG INSURANCE" isnt going to get a piece of this pie your dreaming. There in this up to their eyballs.

[FIREWALL]

@ AVG Trying to convince someone that YOU don't owe THEM a liveing is a exercise in Futility. :haha:

Their so comfortable with the GIMME program you go right over their head.

I applaud you that you have the courage to speak your mind. :salute:

[AVGWarhawk]

@ AVG Trying to convince someone that YOU don't owe THEM a liveing is a exercise in Futility. :haha:

Their so comfortable with the GIMME program you go right over their head.

I applaud you that you have the courage to speak your mind. :salute:

Well lets face it...welfare breeds welfare. I see it in my own family and it has become their job of working the system at my expense and the rest of the tax payers expense. My bro-in-law works the system like a champ and expects the government to flip the bill all the time. It makes me want to puke when he gets the state of MD to pay for his $1200.00 electric bill generated from running his large screen TV and the 4 computers he has around the house in the comfort of his home that he is 12 months behind on concerning the mortgage but Obama will take care of that also at my expense. It is just another friggin raw deal for the hard workers and another friggin free ride for others.

Sure, some are hard workers but can not afford insurance. Not my problem. Go find a job that has benefits of health insurance as part of the package. If you are out of work at no fault of your own... apply to Cobra.

Disclaimer: These thoughts are soley my own and are not representative of SS in part or whole:D

[AVGWarhawk]

Do you think the net increase in taxes will be more than the net premiums paid to insurance companies that would go away under a universal healthcare system?


I don't care if they are higher or lower. I do not want to pay for any more free loading. Simple as that.

[mookiemookie]

I gotta say, all these scare tactics about socialized healthcare killing off old people is making me support it more. Because it's a well known fact that the blood of the euthanized elderly is like fine wine to us liberals. :|\\

[FIREWALL]

Do's Liberal equat to being a FREELOADER. :haha:

I'm somewhat a liberal who beleives in paying his own freight.

I don't have a prob with Welfare Medical.

YOU just PAY for it. Thank you I'll pay for my healthcare.

[AVGWarhawk]

I gotta say, all these scare tactics about socialized healthcare killing off old people is making me support it more. Because it's a well known fact that the blood of the euthanized elderly is like fine wine to us liberals. :|\\

It is not scare tactics Mookie...it is just another free ride for those that been riding for free for a very long time.

Furthermore, as far as old people, I got two of them. I call them mom and dad. Even under the medicare government program it is still not enough for care. They have their own policy to suppliment the medicare and paid out of pocket close to $20,000.00 for medications. Great system. Enjoy the new government system:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm sure Americans don't have a problem with socialized healthcare by itself. They just have a big psychological problem in that to achieve a decent healthcare system, they have to take example mostly on the UK (booo, your country is going down the drain!), France (freedom fries!) and Canada (America's hat!).
The problem is that the trauma is only going to get worse. Give it 5/10 years with no reform, and they'll lag so far behind that they'll have to settle for more "reachable" examples, like Poland or Cuba.


Good points but this is being shoved down the throats of Americans. I have no issue with it but I will be damned to pay twice if I have my own coverage. I will be damned to cover those that do not pay into it. I will be damned if Congress does not have the same policy as everyone.

Looks like I will be damned three times. Somehow everyone feels everyone else should be happy as crap about this. Not the case.

[CastleBravo]

Why does Obama want health care in 4 weeks when it took him 6 months to pick a dog?

[AVGWarhawk]

Why does Obama want health care in 4 weeks when it took him 6 months to pick a dog?

Because his daughters are allergic to some dogs. Just like I'm allergic to some of his policies. However, his daughters get top billing. I would do the same with my daughter if in the same position. :D

[CastleBravo]

Because his daughters are allergic to some dogs. Just like I'm allergic to some of his policies. However, his daughters get top billing. I would do the same with my daughter if in the same position. :D

And you think the health care of 350 million Americans isn't atleast as important as two girls allergies? Sneezing/coughing vs. critical health issues? Please, he didn't have to have a dog at all.

[FIREWALL]

I gotta give BO some credit.

He married the first dog. :haha::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

And you think the health care of 350 million Americans isn't atleast as important as two girls allergies? Sneezing/coughing vs. critical health issues? Please, he didn't have to have a dog at all.

No, I think his daughters come first. I have two daughters and I'm biased. BTW, what constitutes critical health issues? Also, the dog was not for him, it was for his daughters. Big difference IMO.

[SteamWake]

Hey look ! The kids are in the news..... again...


A controversial ad campaign featured in the Washington, D.C., metro area is comparing public school lunches across the country to what President Obama's daughters eat at their elite private school.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/05/report-obama-daughters-featured-controversial-food-ad/?test=latestnews

[AVGWarhawk]

Hey look ! The kids are in the news..... again...



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/05/report-obama-daughters-featured-controversial-food-ad/?test=latestnews

My kids brown bag it. :03:

[CastleBravo]

Its called ELITISM. Everytime I see Mr. Obama with his nose in the air I'm reminded of it.

This is a Yahoo image.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20090805/capt.photo_1249458653286-1-0.jpg?

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, to be honest, when the public schools in Maryland said that ketchup is a vegetable it was time for my kids to brown bag it with healthy foods.

[Tchocky]

Its called ELITISM. Everytime I see Mr. Obama with his nose in the air I'm reminded of it.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20090805/capt.photo_1249458653286-1-0.jpg?

Yeah, it's almost like any shot from that angle emphasises the nose.

And what's the deal with a guy on $400,000 a year, already worth a few million $, sending his kids to a private school?

[CastleBravo]

Yeah, it's almost like any shot from that angle emphasises the nose.

If that were only the case. Even when the cameras are at eye level he continues to raise his nose. Check out his nomination acceptance speech and inauguration address.

This pic is on MSN today.
http://col.stb.s-msn.com/i/34/E79783DDA847239FA79212D28AAD2.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah, it's almost like any shot from that angle emphasises the nose.

And what's the deal with a guy on $400,000 a year, already worth a few million $, sending his kids to a private school?

I do not make $400,000.00 and I send my kids to private school. In fact, I do not even make a quarter what he does looking at the figure you provided. So, what does that mean?

[AVGWarhawk]

If that were only the case. Even when the cameras are at eye level he continues to raise his nose. Check out his nomination acceptance speech and inauguration address.



Yes, he does stand there aloof quite a bit.

[Tribesman]

Hey look ! The kids are in the news..... again...
The animal rights freaks funded by PETA.
So what does Obamas daughters school have to do with a bunch of idiots that want all school kids to be vegans?

This pic is on MSN today.

Thats wierd on the video he is looking at the people in the audience he is addressing.

[CastleBravo]

Thats wierd on the video he is looking at the people in the audience he is addressing.

Well then every pic taken of him is Obama looking up at the audience.?

He is an arrogant guy. And how does it go.....pride goeth before the fall? One term.

[CastleBravo]

WASHINGTON, Aug 5 (Reuters) - Despite polls showing growing public doubts about his healthcare overhaul, the arrogant U.S. President Barack Obama vowed on Wednesday to get a reform bill through Congress this year even without Republicans on board.
"I promise you, we will pass reform by the end of this year because the American people need it," Obama said in Wakarusa, Indiana, where he traveled to tout his economic initiatives. "We're going to have to make it happen."
Obama's drive for healthcare reform, his top legislative priority, has been attacked on all sides for its $1 trillion cost and scope. Democrats have feuded over how to pay for it, and Obama's popularity has slipped as the debate dragged on.
A Quinnipiac University poll on Wednesday found that 52 percent of voters disapprove of Obama's handling of healthcare while 39 percent approve. That was a shift from 46 percent approval against 42 percent disapproval in a July 1 survey.

[Tribesman]

Thats even wierder. The Reuters article says....
Despite polls showing growing public doubts about his healthcare overhaul, U.S. President Barack Obama (http://www.reuters.com/news/globalcoverage/barackobama) vowed on Wednesday to get a reform bill through Congress this year even without Republicans on board.
Which reads slightly different from your .....
Despite polls showing growing public doubts about his healthcare overhaul, the arrogant U.S. President Barack Obama vowed on Wednesday to get a reform bill through Congress this year even without Republicans on board.

Did you decide to change the news yourself?
Ever considered a job with Glenn Beck?

[CastleBravo]

I don't recall changing the factual details.

[Tribesman]

I don't recall changing the factual details.
The fact is what you wrote isn't what was written in the article.
The fact is you changed it.

[CastleBravo]

The fact is what you wrote isn't what was written in the article.
The fact is you changed it.

No, I didn't change it.
The sentance seems to support the body of the article. What's the problem?

[Tribesman]

No, I didn't change it.

Ah now I see , adding two words to an article isn't changing it:rotfl:

[SteamWake]

Good lord, noses in the air, debates over added words.

:nope:

I know one thing about washington or politics in general. You may be the most humble, forthright citizen going in. You wont be that way comming out.

Theres enough eletisim on both sides of the aisle. Thats one of the problems.

These politicos are so effin disconnected from the american people they believe the angst they are confronted with is a coordinated effort bought and payed for by 'big buisness' whos main agenda is to dis Obama.