Veteran SH3 Player Just Bought SH4

[Sheldon]

Ahoy everyone!

I have been playing SH3 for years but recently was persuaded to try my skippering in the Pacific theatre. I have a few questions based on my first voyage and am wondering if any of you old salts can advise.

1. Patches - I bought the game from Direct2Drive. Played a night then decided I should check for patches. Here in the SubSim site I see an official 1.4 patch but in the forum posts I have seen reference to a 1.5 patch. The 1.4 patch instructions say to uninstall then re-install then apply the patch. That's kind of a pain. Is that really necessary? What happens if I have already started a campaign?

2. Widescreen - I recently bought a 24" widescreen with a native 1920 x 1080 and have searched for a method to make SH3 and SH4 look good but the games just display stretched wide. My solution is ... to just use my old monitor when sub simming. Is there a better option?

3. Salvo - Wow ... looks like the US torpedoes suck compared to the German ones. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to fire a salvo. The 'S' button on the tube selection panel doesn't seem to do it.

4. First Sub - I realize I know little about American submarines. There are a few types to choose from and the differences seems to do with range and number of torpedoes. As someone who is used to a VIIb, these American boats seem HUGE! I think I will stick with 1941 Pearl Harbour as a base. Any recommendations for what type of sub I should captain?

5. Function Keys - It seems like most of the F key functions are still there ... they've just been re-assigned to other F keys. Why would they do that?

6. Running Depth - This sim has much better visual effects than SH3 for water murkiness and such ... but now I notice I can see my sub when at periscope depth. 25 metres seems to be the magic spot to avoid being spotted. Am I just being paranoid or will aircraft/ships spot me at periscope depth?

7. Targets - There seems to be fewer big merchants and more military targets and smaller transports. Is that about right?

8. Local Time - My clock seems to be broken. I am cruising off Hokkaido and the sub's clock says it is 14:00 local time (2 pm) yet it looks more like 2 am ... pitch black with a starry sky? Do I misunderstand what local time means? It seems like my clock is off by 12 hours.

Any other advice for transitioning from SH3 to SH4?

Thanks in advance.

[DarkFish]

I'll try to help you a bit here;)
1. Patches - Here in the SubSim site I see an official 1.4 patch but in the forum posts I have seen reference to a 1.5 patch. The 1.4 patch instructions say to uninstall then re-install then apply the patch. That's kind of a pain. Is that really necessary? What happens if I have already started a campaign?1.5 is the U-Boat addon. It adds the option to play on the German side, and fixes a few bugs as well. You must buy it however, I just checked and it is only $9,95 on Direct2Drive.
for a DVD you can best search on sites like ebay.
I think uninstalling is only needed if you installed any mods, as in that case it could cause CTD issues if you install the newer version. If you're playing vanilla it shouldn't be a problem
If you already started a campaign it'll probably become corrupted, unless you are in port.
2. Widescreen - I recently bought a 24" widescreen with a native 1920 x 1080 and have searched for a method to make SH3 and SH4 look good but the games just display stretched wide. My solution is ... to just use my old monitor when sub simming. Is there a better option?I don't know about this as I ain't got a widescreen monitor, but AFAIK it should be possible. Maybe if you do a search here?
3. Salvo - I cannot for the life of me figure out how to fire a salvo. The 'S' button on the tube selection panel doesn't seem to do it. There's no salvo function on fleet boats. Just launch a few torpedoes in close succession. But remember to first turn the spread angle dial around a bit prior to every launch as all torpedoes will travel on the same course if you don't.
4. First Sub - Any recommendations for what type of sub I should captain?just as on the German side each boat has its own up and downs. The gatos and balaos are the most modern ones and can dive deepest. The S-class is comparable to a Typ II U-Boot, small, slow, not carrying too many torpedoes and with a shallow max depth.
Just choose a boat you like.
5. Function Keys - It seems like most of the F key functions are still there ... they've just been re-assigned to other F keys. Why would they do that?you ask me?:)
6. Running Depth - Am I just being paranoid or will aircraft/ships spot me at periscope depth? They will, though I'm not sure if they will in stock game. It differs with every supermod, but on my RFB+OM install I just got blasted while sailing at periscope depth.
7. Targets - There seems to be fewer big merchants and more military targets and smaller transports. Is that about right?I don't know about the ratio, but there are unrealistically many targets in stock game. RSRDC fixes this.
8. Local Time - My clock seems to be broken. I am cruising off Hokkaido and the sub's clock says it is 14:00 local time (2 pm) yet it looks more like 2 am ... pitch black with a starry sky? Do I misunderstand what local time means? It seems like my clock is off by 12 hours.AFAIK the clock shows base time instead of local time.
Any other advice for transitioning from SH3 to SH4?1st play around a bit to get the hang of SH4 and then install one of the supermods (TMO/RFB/FOTRS, just take a look at the fleet boat mods forum) and install RSRDC which completely overwrites the stock campaign and changes the shipping to historical values and routes.
I hope this helped you:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Ahoy everyone!

I have been playing SH3 for years but recently was persuaded to try my skippering in the Pacific theatre. I have a few questions based on my first voyage and am wondering if any of you old salts can advise.

Hey everybody, we hooked another one!:D Wonder what kind of questions he has?

1. Patches - I bought the game from Direct2Drive. Played a night then decided I should check for patches. Here in the SubSim site I see an official 1.4 patch but in the forum posts I have seen reference to a 1.5 patch. The 1.4 patch instructions say to uninstall then re-install then apply the patch. That's kind of a pain. Is that really necessary? What happens if I have already started a campaign?

Don't know. I doubt it. I'd install patch 1.4 and then try it. If the game is toast you'll have to reinstall and that's what they said to do anyway. Sounds like a no-risk deal to me.:up: Go for it and just install the patch. There's an outside chance you'll need to go back to an in-port save.

2. Widescreen - I recently bought a 24" widescreen with a native 1920 x 1080 and have searched for a method to make SH3 and SH4 look good but the games just display stretched wide. My solution is ... to just use my old monitor when sub simming. Is there a better option?

Not my area of expertise. I think that you are doing the best you can with the old monitor.

3. Salvo - Wow ... looks like the US torpedoes suck compared to the German ones. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to fire a salvo. The 'S' button on the tube selection panel doesn't seem to do it.

You have to realize that the defect is in SH3. There was no salvo firing from U-Boats, except that all the torpedoes were set up together as in the game. The torpedoes were fired individually at least 4 seconds apart to avoid a premature explosion blowing up the whole salvo in open water. That would be bad, by the way...:sunny:

In the American TDC with target locked and normal targeting procedure, you are aimed at MOT (middle of target). The spread adjustment aims the next torpedo to be fired a certain number of degrees left or right of the aiming point (MOT). So if you want three separate hits on a 4º target, shoot, set 1º left, shoot, set 1º right, shoot. Boom. Boom. Boom. That's how the real American TDC worked.

4. First Sub - I realize I know little about American submarines. There are a few types to choose from and the differences seems to do with range and number of torpedoes. As someone who is used to a VIIb, these American boats seem HUGE! I think I will stick with 1941 Pearl Harbour as a base. Any recommendations for what type of sub I should captain?

The S-Boat is a combination of the Type II and Type XXI U-Boats. It is a small sub that doesn't carry enough torpedoes and has no aft torpedo tubes. However it is optimized for underwater performance, doing 10 knots as opposed to the fleet boat's 7 when submerged. I like 'em. They are a lot of fun.

If you go for a fleet boat, you are carrying a lot of heat to the battle. 24 torpedoes aboard, with up to 10 tubes means you can flat out decimate a convoy. I like the latest type I can get. It's also fun to run the oldest type and progress through the boats as your career develops. To give you an idea of what you're getting into, at 100 RPM, darned quiet, you're running almost 3 knots under water, as opposed to 1 knot in the U-Boat. Which one do you think evades better?:D

5. Function Keys - It seems like most of the F key functions are still there ... they've just been re-assigned to other F keys. Why would they do that?

For the same reason that they changed Das Boot from a good book to a lousy movie: they thought they could improve it! Fortunately, in this case you can fix it by installing TMOkeys (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=173&act=down), which installes the Trigger Maru keyboard layout with the ";" changed to radar depth and shift-i for "some dag blamed crewmember identify that target!" Trigger Maru uses a keyboard layout very close to SH3.

6. Running Depth - This sim has much better visual effects than SH3 for water murkiness and such ... but now I notice I can see my sub when at periscope depth. 25 metres seems to be the magic spot to avoid being spotted. Am I just being paranoid or will aircraft/ships spot me at periscope depth?

In the stock game you'll not be bothered at periscope depth. Download Trigger Maru Overhauled or Real Fleet Boat and you'll meet Ducimus' evil airplanes up close and personal. They'll bomb you to about 80'. I always go to 100' just for insurance.

7. Targets - There seems to be fewer big merchants and more military targets and smaller transports. Is that about right?

Beats me. There are a lot of smaller merchants out there. Military targets other than escorts are really pretty rare.

8. Local Time - My clock seems to be broken. I am cruising off Hokkaido and the sub's clock says it is 14:00 local time (2 pm) yet it looks more like 2 am ... pitch black with a starry sky? Do I misunderstand what local time means? It seems like my clock is off by 12 hours.

Time in the game is base time from whatever base you embarked from. Because of the size of the Pacific, the time difference between boat time and local time can be great.


Any other advice for transitioning from SH3 to SH4?

Thanks in advance.

Sure. Don't try to force a fleet boat to play like a U-Boat. It is its own monster and must be tamed on its own terms. Those of us moving from American boats to U-Boats have the same problem in reverse. It is a waste of time to worry about why it does not act like the U-Boat. Find how it DOES work and you will find out that you'll like it. Different is not always worse.

I'd recommend using Imperial units for the American subs. You're used to measuring speed in knots, and you'll be amazed that the unit is nautical miles per hour. The nautical mile is an imperial measurement, and sinice for the first time you are using units that agree with each other you'll find your calculations get MUCH easier. You're going 5 knots, in 5 hours you'll travel 25 miles. Simple Simon! Doing the knots-kilometers deal is just unnecessary torture! I know, in SH3 you have the pull down table.

I think the flavor of the game just comes out better when you use the native measurement system. I use metric in U-Boats and Imperial in fleet boats.

But possibly the most important advice (at least in manual targeting). In the fleet boat the gyro ange is not directly hooked to the periscope heading. You have to hit the red send button on the TDC input dial to transmit the info.

[Sheldon]

Thank you for your replies. I am grateful.

Interesting about the lack of salvo function. How do you open all the torpedo bay doors simultaneously? Or do you just not worry about it?

For example, I want to shoot three forward torpedoes at the centre/middle of a single target. I adjust the spread and "Send". Do I select tube 1, then Q key to open the tube door, then select tube 2, the Q to open that bay door, then select tube 3, etc.? Or do I just fire one, fire two, fire three and not worry about the doors?

I think I will try to apply the 1.4 patch and just muck around for a bit then look into the mods. As a GWX SH3 player, I would prefer as much realism as possible.

Now I need to find a bunch of Glen Miller and Big Band music mp3s for the gramophone (assuming SH4 works like SH3).

Thank you both again. I have some mayhem to cause off the coast of Japan!

[Munchausen]

How do you open all the torpedo bay doors simultaneously? Or do you just not worry about it?
Just select the tube and press "Q" ... the door will stay open until you either fire the torpedo or go below 100 feet.

[Rockin Robbins]

Don't make the mistake of confusing SH3 with or without GWX as "realistic." It left out the central aspect of the U-Boat war: the wolfpack. SH3 without wolfpacks is like SH4 without water. No mod, no matter how good, can solve it.

Similarly, in SH4 there is no direct hookup between the TDC and the periscope. The real boat had this. So far no mod has been able to fix it. There are other similar issues.

So don't make me laugh about realism. It's amazingly realistic compared to PacMan, but wouldn't fool a real sub sailor, who would be guffawing about twice a minute.

SH3 and SH4 are equally good games. Neither can brag too much about "realism." It's mostly just a matter of personal taste if you really care to be honest about it. And the lack of realism doesn't keep either from being two of the greatest games I've ever played.

[captgeo]

Aircraft will see you at periscope depth, about 90 ' ( 30 to 35 meters) will hide you fine, you dont have to worry about ships spotting you at periscope depth unless right on top of you.

[Wilcke]

Originally Posted by Sheldon
2. Widescreen - I recently bought a 24" widescreen with a native 1920 x 1080 and have searched for a method to make SH3 and SH4 look good but the games just display stretched wide. My solution is ... to just use my old monitor when sub simming. Is there a better option?

I am also running a 23" widescreen. SH3 will not scale correctly and you will have some visual issues. SH4 on the other hand scales correctly with no problems on my setup. Just make sure your drivers are installed correctly for your video card and widescreen, then go into the SH4 video properties and you should see the proper settings 1920 x 1080, select them and off you go. Easey Peasey!

Happy Hunting!

[Sheldon]

Just select the tube and press "Q" ... the door will stay open until you either fire the torpedo or go below 100 feet.

Ah. In SH3 if I selected a second tube to open, the first one would close.

So you are saying that I can select tube 1, open it, select tube 2, open it, select tube 3, open it ... and all three tube doors will be open until I fire or submerge below 100'?

[Sheldon]

Originally Posted by Sheldon
2. Widescreen - I recently bought a 24" widescreen with a native 1920 x 1080 and have searched for a method to make SH3 and SH4 look good but the games just display stretched wide. My solution is ... to just use my old monitor when sub simming. Is there a better option?

I am also running a 23" widescreen. SH3 will not scale correctly and you will have some visual issues. SH4 on the other hand scales correctly with no problems on my setup. Just make sure your drivers are installed correctly for your video card and widescreen, then go into the SH4 video properties and you should see the proper settings 1920 x 1080, select them and off you go. Easey Peasey!

Happy Hunting!


Hmm ... I have tried that and it still distorts horizontally the same way SH3 does. I am certain my card (nVidia 9800 512) is configured correctly. It works with my other widescreen games. I wish it was easy peasy! :)

[AVGWarhawk]

I run a 22 inch with a 9800. The game detects the resolution and screen size. Works fine for me.

[Sheldon]

Aircraft will see you at periscope depth, about 90 ' ( 30 to 35 meters) will hide you fine, you dont have to worry about ships spotting you at periscope depth unless right on top of you.

Okay. Good to know. Thanks!

[Sheldon]

Don't make the mistake of confusing SH3 with or without GWX as "realistic."

I seem to have unintentionally hit a nerve ... but I think you understood what I meant by my statement.

[Rockin Robbins]

No nerve, just making it clear that GWX can never be realistic. Neither can any of the mods in SH4 which also has conceptual defects not moddable. That does not prevent both games from being the two best I've ever played.

Look, our computers are too primitive to allow for greater realms of graphic honesty and also accommodate greater gameplay realism too. Compromises have to be made everywhere and each compromise is the acceptance of something not strictly realistic in the name of a playable game.

Maybe you've seen Tomi's torpedo room and engine room in the Atlantic Mods Forum. Wonder what that'll do to our primitive software and hardware environment? My guess is that it's too good for now. And one of the criticisms of GWX is that it's so big it takes forever to load. It's not the software's fault. GWX is just fine. The hardware is falling behind the curve.

Finally, after several years of hardware being ahead of software, we're back to the early nineties, where Windows was too advanced to run properly on most computers that people could control.

We had 40 mb hard drives and Windows plus Microsoft Office took 30. 40 mb hd? $350. 4 mb RAM? $450. Cut and paste between applications? Don't make me laugh! The software knew how to do it, Microsoft said, but none of us could prove it in practice because it froze our computers for ten or fifteen minutes. And our wallets were frozen by the cost of advancement too.

We've already had to ratchet back some of the environmental mods that were impacting framerates too severely. We're at a balance point where we see if hardware will take the next several steps forward without breaking the bank. The software guys are ready to take it to the next level.

The day is coming in the next five years when SH3 and SH4 look pretty poor. Hope they get the gameplay right. We'll definitely have the eyecandy. Of course whatever happens, we'll find new things to complain about.:haha:

[DarkFish]

2. Widescreen - I recently bought a 24" widescreen with a native 1920 x 1080 and have searched for a method to make SH3 and SH4 look good but the games just display stretched wide. My solution is ... to just use my old monitor when sub simming. Is there a better option?I just bought a 20" widescreen, native 1600*900 and didn't have much problems. When I 1st loaded SH4 it did stretch everything, so I went to the graphics settings menu and updated my resolution to 1600*900 and after exiting and reloading SH4 everthing was fine.

[Kloef]

Untill this day i prefer good gameplay over nice graphics,thanks to the wonderfull mods out there that level of gameplay has increased dramatically,and will keep SH3/4 alive for a very long time...SH3 is still very attractive to play and you forget about the dated graphics once you are sucked into the game..

So if a new SH game comes our way in a year or so i hope the gameplay excells over graphics,cause its the drawback we dont need.What i mean is if a game developer is held back by the fact that the graphics are the most important for his game to be sold,then please just build a game that works well and i can live with an engine thats a couple of years old...

As long as this type of game/simulator is made for a small population of gamers like us it will remain this way,and i can live with that..what they did is spread the 'subjuice' a little so its attractive to play for a small amount of main stream gamers....not the right road to walk in my opinion,i love fat manuals and months of experience to be able to just sail out of port..realism and graphics are 2 totally different things,its like a good story in a book,thats not realistic cause you are not physically there,neither are games...as long as i dont really sail around in a U-boat i can have a cinema screen,force feedback and all the graphic goodies possible,it would still feel 'cold'..once you accept this its easier to just be busy with the game,and forget about the simulated realism..but a small voice will allways tell you...... ''its not real''......and never will be even if you own a NASA supercomputer..

then again i took the step from SH3 to 4 because i bought a widescreen monitor,but heck thats a year ago....i still love the SH4 graphics and i can live with SH3 graphics too..if i hadnt bought the widescreen i probably wouldnt have bought SH4:arrgh!: