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UnderseaLcpl
07-17-09, 01:25 AM
I hate to make a post out of this, but I'm running short on time and options.
Basically, I have to complete the assignment detailed below by midnight tomorrow.
As you can see, I already composed a response, but I'm a little worried about whether or not it is appropriate. Worse, none of my roommates are around to look at it, and the one friend I have on this street had nothing to say other than a series of queries as to the meaning of words like "indubitably" and (incredibly enough) "proclamations", which she pronounced as prokle-may-tie-uns". After that, she was only interested in watching TVO'ed episodes of House, so I need a little help here.

I intended for it to be kind of funny, whilst still adhering to the criterion specified in the assignment, but did I go too far? Is it offensive? Is it even funny at all? Does it answer the questions satisfactorily? Is it formal enough for an academic forum without being crude?

Normally, I wouldn't even bother wasting everyone's time by asking for peer review but this assignment alone is worth 10% of the overall grade. Be merciless in your assessments, nothing you say is going to hurt my feelings, but please be honest and generous with suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any advice.:salute:



Consider historical or contemporary figures that are or were effective and persuasive
communicators, such as Dr. Martin Luther King, President John F. Kennedy, First Lady
Eleanor Roosevelt, President Ronald Reagan, Dr. Maya Angelou, President Bill Clinton,
Oprah Winfrey, and so on.
Locate and watch a video of a persuasive speech given by one of these figures (or by
another of your choice) before addressing the questions below. To locate a video, use a
search engine such as Google or ask.com and enter a phrase similar to the following:

“Dr. Martin Luther King moving speech video”
“Videos of Kennedy presidential speeches”
“Reagan video clip archives”
“Eleanor Roosevelt video address”

• Due Date: Day 4 [Main] forum
• Post your response to the following: Which speech did you watch? What kind of body
language did the speaker use to make the speech persuasive? Provide an example.
Would a written version of the message be less persuasive? Why or why not? How can a
writer create a persuasive message without the use of body language? What word choice
and tone did the speaker use? What was the effect? Did he or she use logic or emotion
to persuade the audience? Provide an example. Did you find the speech persuasive?
Why or why not?
When you post your response, please provide the URL for the speech you watched.


Sources;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFR3LhoNQOc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFR3LhoNQOc)
and even better.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sthm3vH6ixY


Persuasive speaking is a powerful art, and few people so clearly exemplify its' potency as the likes of Toufik Benedictus Hinn, often referred to as "Benny" Hinn.

Above are links to Benny's more usual, and more exotic, performances respectively. Hinn's use of body language is readily apparent in both. Powerful, decisive gestures and a confident stance that conveys utter conviction are his tools. Aside from the occassional sweep of the hand that actually makes people fall over and/or suffer an epileptic seizure, Hinn uses very direct pointing gestures and brief but focused stares. The latter is an essential implement in Hinn's favored method of delivery, but solid eye contact and visually engaging the audience are indispensable practices in many types of persuasive speaking.

Whether this brand of speech would work well in a written format is difficulty to say. Mr. Hinn is a pretty widely-read author, so I assume that most of his message survives the transition to text, but I have a hard time imagining someone reading his books with their arms stretched above their heads or collapsing after reading a particularly righteous paragraph. Given the greater depth that one can go into when writing a book or article on a subject as opposed to speaking about it, I would not go so far as to say that Hinn's works would be less persuasive, though they are indubitably less dramatic.

Next, we must consider Hinn's specific use of verbiage and tone. The tone is unmistakably energetic and full of unshakeable belief. Come to think of it, the word belief itself is used repeatedly in the first speech. Conviction might be a better word, though I already used it once. Nonetheless, I lack an acceptable substitute, so conviction it is. His tone is one of unshakeable conviction. That is to be expected in any kind of fire-and-brimstone religious message, but his choice of words is where things begin to get interesting. Note that Hinn uses the word power about two dozen times in the first speech, and at one point he just keeps repeating the word. In this particular context, he is promising holy power to those that "believe", another word he uses ad nauseum.
Therein lies the beauty of his message. Power to those that believe. Very simple, yet very effective, and the repetition enforces the message. Of course, one cannot just go about repeating whatever they feel like saying and hoping that it will stick. The timing of Hinn's repetitions is also important. They always come after a particularly profound statement and are usually accompanied by a gratuitous increase in volume.

Hinn, however, is not a one-trick pony. his technique extends far beyond the repetition of simple messages, as does his word usage. Amazingly enough, he uses a great deal of biblical terminology (imagine that!) and he does so with appropriate changes in tone. Words like "holy" and "salvation" and whatnot are almost sung, whilst words like "devil" and "evil" are almost hissed sometimes. If Benny Hinn could spit the word "devil", I'm sure he would. Considering all this, it is obvious that he is making an emotional appeal here, and the audience is certainly rife with emotion, further evidencing the fact. I cannot say if there is a logical aspect to his style at all. When it comes to religion, logic is very subjective. As a Presbyterian, I do not see any logic emanating from Hinn's general direction, but then Presbyterians pride themselves upon worshiping in the same way that one might stand in a battalion formation. It's all very serious stuff, you know. If God wanted us to wave our hands in the air like we just don't care, he'd have built his church on the West Side and we would pray on Friday night. There is also a distinct possibility that "40's" might be involved.
I jest, poorly, but I honestly cannot say if there is logic inherent in Hinn's approach. Not being a follower of that particular sect of Christianity, I have no perspective worth considering and no right to judge Hinn's logic or lack thereof. Logic or no, the effect of Hinn's speaking cannot be denied or misinterpreted. People cry, stretch their arms to the heavens, and momentarily lose their balance. Doubtless, there are some who consider his performance ridiculous, but one cannot argue with those results.

As stated above, I personally didn't find the speech persuasive because my faith, not to mention my skepticism, dissuade me from even considering most of Hinn's proclamations. Beyond that I can only say that I can appreciate how persuasive Hinn can evidently be. I have no doubt that his method of persuasive speaking would not work on many, but one cannot deny its' effectiveness upon the intended audience. That in itself is persuasion enough to give serious consideration to his methods, yes?





edit- I honestly dont care if this eventually becomes a debate about religion or a series of jokes, but some useful input would be nice.
Thanks again,

James

CastleBravo
07-17-09, 01:31 AM
How about it becomes a debate about how you waited for the last moment and now want someone to bail you out. If you fail on this project a valuble lesson will be learned.

Onkel Neal
07-17-09, 01:44 AM
Maybe it can be a debate on how he spent his spare time last week chipping paint on a WWII United States Submarine memorial and is now catching up on his school work?

CastleBravo
07-17-09, 01:55 AM
Maybe it can be a debate on how he spent his spare time last week chipping paint on a WWII United States Submarine memorial and is now catching up on his school work?

A lesson in priorities.?

Stealhead
07-17-09, 01:58 AM
Well it does not really matter if you are going to college your school work should be your number one concern you have to do the things that effect you most direclty in life first then do the rest even it was volunteering his time to work on an old sub. I'd have done somthing that accounts for 10% of a final grade before I worked on a sub if he gets a bad grade having worked on the sub will have made no diffrence it is not going to eran him a diploma but doing the school work will.My grandfarther worked his ass off after WWII to use the GI bill and also care for a family as did my dad as did I. I think a WWII vet would be more honored by someone who works on their education first and foremost.

What is your professor like? Does this person have a sense of humor? Id be very careful if they dont it may cost you.Id cut the humor to be safe it couls very easily come across as insulting to the professors time.Drop the humor and the why you dont relate with Hinn it would be better to explain more about how he is persuasive for folks who like the fire and brimstone I mean if he did not do things the way he did would the people that are convinced follow him?Explain your skepticism without the humor. Thats all I have he managed his time this way he will have to work through it.

CastleBravo
07-17-09, 02:12 AM
I was very much a jerk in my previous reply. I hope you can forgive me.

My most sincere apologies. CB

UnderseaLcpl
07-17-09, 04:26 AM
I was very much a jerk in my previous reply. I hope you can forgive me.

My most sincere apologies. CB


No, you were honest and didn't offend me at all. No apology necessary. However, this isn't actually my school project, it is my brother's school project and I have to get it done because his GPA and continued school funding is essential to whether or not I can make rent this month.
My alternative is to whore myself out to 500 fat chicks for $100 apiece, or 50 really fat chicks for $1000 dollars apiece.:o


Well it does not really matter if you are going to college your school work should be your number one concern you have to do the things that effect you most direclty in life first then do the rest even it was volunteering his time to work on an old sub. I'd have done somthing that accounts for 10% of a final grade before I worked on a sub if he gets a bad grade having worked on the sub will have made no diffrence it is not going to eran him a diploma but doing the school work will.My grandfarther worked his ass off after WWII to use the GI bill and also care for a family as did my dad as did I. I think a WWII vet would be more honored by someone who works on their education first and foremost.


Fair enough, but I don't need a lesson in priorities. Again, this is not my schoolwork, but I have a vested interest in seeing it done properly. Furthermore, this is one veteran who appreciates the value of restoring relics of past wars, and it amounts to a great deal more than the college educations of a dozen business majors.

In any case, I will attempt to re-write the paper without the attempt at humor, and see how it turns out. Evidently, no one has found it funny thus far, so I think I might be better served by sticking to the basics.


What is your professor like? Does this person have a sense of humor? Id be very careful if they dont it may cost you.Id cut the humor to be safe it couls very easily come across as insulting to the professors time.Drop the humor and the why you dont relate with Hinn it would be better to explain more about how he is persuasive for folks who like the fire and brimstone I mean if he did not do things the way he did would the people that are convinced follow him?Explain your skepticism without the humor. Thats all I have he managed his time this way he will have to work through it.


The prof does have a sense of humour, but I don't want to push it too far. She is a self-proclaimed aetheist, so I thought she might enjoy the attempt at humor(I guess I should have mentoned that), but she is very strict about the requirements of each assignment. I wanted to make sure that I met them and that I did not do so in an offensive manner.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can do a piece where I relate to Hinn. I stupidly picked him as a subject because I knew that he wasnt what the prof was looking for, but he would still fall within the criterion. Basically, I tried to have some fun with the assignment and I may have gotten in over my head. :oops:


The situation now is thus; The prof knows that I picked Hinn for my project and has access to both of my video links. There is no way out of that. So....... I have to make this piece worthy of an "A", which can only be done by ensuring that quality, content, and audience appeal are all exceptional.

TarJak
07-17-09, 07:27 AM
All in all I think the response is well reasoned, worded and coherent. I assume there is no length limit or minimum that must be reached but overall you've picked a persuasive speaker and given a reasonable description of what they do and how it impacts his audience.

I'd probably remove your comentary in brackets "(imagine that!)" as it adds little in terms of humor or value and may distract the marker by making them focus on your editorilising on Hinns use of the Bible passages. It's not that it's wrong just unneccessary as you've already said "Amazingly" and one editorialisation is enough in one sentence.

One thing I think it lacks is the reason behind the message Hinn is trying to get across. On one level he is evangelising about his faith, but on other levels he is doing something else whcih some see as the sinister side of evangelical speakers.

Personally I think this is at the root of why someone is trying to be persuasive and by not addressing the root cause behind the message, your response could be considered incomplete.

Hope this gets to you in time and helps you out.;)

Onkel Neal
07-17-09, 09:29 AM
No, you were honest and didn't offend me at all. No apology necessary. However, this isn't actually my school project, it is my brother's school project and I have to get it done because his GPA and continued school funding is essential to whether or not I can make rent this month.
My alternative is to whore myself out to 500 fat chicks for $100 apiece, or 50 really fat chicks for $1000 dollars apiece.:o




Count me in on the help with the fat chicks! :shucks:

But only the $100 variety.

UnderseaLcpl
07-17-09, 11:00 AM
Count me in on the help with the fat chicks! :shucks:

But only the $100 variety.


Very generous Neal, but if you really want to help you could enlist the aid of a certain someone who makes "the best" baked potatoes. Those fat chicks are probably going to get very hungry while they're waiting in line....:D

@Tarjak

Excellent suggestions, TJ. I removed the bracketed quip and added to the fourth paragraph;
Mr. Hinn's style of speaking caters well to his purpose, which is decidedly evangelical in nature. His message is that faith will empower believers and that their very words will be annointed with the power to drive evil away, a message which is clearly not lost upon his audience.

I don't dare say anything about the more sinister side of evangelism or Hinn himself. Other students are going to read this thing as well, and it's a safe bet that some of them are evangelists themselves. I have to be careful about what I say and refrain from being outright offensive.

Thank you for your help:salute:


@SH

My attempt at removing sarcasm and humor from the piece has been less than successful. I simply lack the ability to seriously consider Hinn a persuasive speaker, or write anything to that effect. The best I can do is to fake enthusiasm and admiration, and then my writings come off sounding like the rantings of a cultist. That is an extremely undesireable result when one's professor is an ardent aetheist.

Aramike
07-17-09, 01:24 PM
My alternative is to whore myself out to 500 fat chicks for $100 apiece, or 50 really fat chicks for $1000 dollars apiece.:oFat chicks need love too ... but they gotta PAY!

UnderseaLcpl
07-17-09, 01:49 PM
Fat chicks need love too ... but they gotta PAY!
Giggity giggity:DL

Shearwater
07-17-09, 04:17 PM
A very interesting topic indeed, especially for someone like me who is trained in classical philology - I just knew it that my moment would eventually come ... ;) Ancient rhetoric hasn't changed that much (because nobody seriously attempted to go deeper into the subject than the ancients did).
Cicero (and others, but that's not so interesting here) said that there were three styles of rhetoric, each one appropriate for a different type. Just keep in mind that all of these styles try to win over the audience, some more overtly, some by more subtle means.

Check out Cicero, Orator, Chapters 20-22. There he gives an account of the three "genera dicendi", or modes of speech. Surely there must be some English translations or the text floating around the web. Good luck to you! :salute:

EDIT: As for the fat chicks ... wouldn't 5 preposterously obese chick suffice as well?

TarJak
07-17-09, 05:22 PM
Poor skinny guy like James would get lost in there for days. We'd never hear from him again.:D

@UnderseaLcpl Just a suggestion for addressing the sinister side, would be to simply say that Hinns detractors would point to his persuasiveness and rhetoric as tools Hinn uses in his aims to dupe people out of their money.

That way you are not saying it but it addresses the elephant in the room when talking about these types of speakers. IMHO the question of motive must be addressed and when peoples motives are called into question on a repeated basis, it should be voiced.

Doing it the way I suggest, raises the point without expressing your individual opinion either way on the matter. And could get some interesting debate started in the classroom.:D

Shearwater
07-17-09, 05:32 PM
Reminds me of this:

http://www.folklore.ms/mp3/1950s/1955ca_bawdy_songs_vol_5_bawdy_sea_shanties_(LP)/01_youre_a_liar_(aka_four_old_whores_from_winnipeg ).htm

Enjoy! :D:D

ryanglavin
02-19-10, 04:00 PM
Count me in on the help with the fat chicks! :shucks:

But only the $100 variety.

Give me 3/4 the profit and I'll take the 1000$ ones!

CaptainHaplo
02-19-10, 05:37 PM
Man I was all up on writing about this - then noticed the date of posting...

ARGHH

ZOMBIE THREAD!!!!!!!

TarJak
02-19-10, 05:41 PM
Wouldn't mind knowing how the marking went for this though. C'mon James did you get close to your 10%?:)