Does using SONAR..

[TigerShark808]

give away your position?

I have never used this in-game because I usually die before this tech is available. So Now that I have decided to start in mid 42. I have it and now ask " does using it give away your position"

Thanks!

[Torplexed]

According to the manual using the fathometer around escorts should put you in danger of giving your position away, but according to the game users here it doesn't.

[Ford Prefect]

using it for depth, no, I've sat around pinging away merrily as a test and gone completely unoticed.

Not certain about the active sonar for range finding.

[Melonfish]

*slaps head*
see i've been refraining from checking my depth when DD's are around. bugger it i'll ping away now!
:D

[Toolworx]

Only one way to find out....:salute:
I will let you know in a few hours:arrgh!:

[flakmonkey]

Pinging to check depth cant be detected in game but using active sonar to ping a target WILL give you away.
I pinged a destroyer when i first got sonar installed on my boat, pretty much right away it turned my direction, ran up to full speed and dropped a whole bunch of DCs.

[Melonfish]

Pinging to check depth cant be detected in game but using active sonar to ping a target WILL give you away.
I pinged a destroyer when i first got sonar installed on my boat, pretty much right away it turned my direction, ran up to full speed and dropped a whole bunch of DCs.

And thats what you get for letting Bernard lean on the sonar equipment! :haha:

[Sailor Steve]

*slaps head*
see i've been refraining from checking my depth when DD's are around. bugger it i'll ping away now!
:D
They could indeed hear that in real life. How realistic do you want to be?

[Fader_Berg]

I'm used to ping destroyers all the time, to know where they are. It sure doesn't seems like they catch it.

[Erich dem Roten]

You must be getting lucky, enemy ships can definitely pick up an active SONAR ping.

But yeah, depth ranging is undetected in SH3...though I think in SH4 it can give you away (not really sure, while I own it I deleted SH4 within 10 minutes of installation).

[Ford Prefect]

I deleted SH4 within 10 minutes of installation).

It's soooo boring isn't it?

[Erich dem Roten]

It definitely doesn't have the allure of the Atlantic, that's for sure. Maybe I'll give it a try again after the GWX team gets done with it.

[Ford Prefect]

I played it for a while before I got SHIII, the massive expanses of absolute nothing dotted with sampans bored the hell out of me. When I did find a decent target it was always in the shallows (and there are alot stretching for miles!) so if there were escorts I got depth charged to bits. I never came across any decent targets in deep water where my boat was meant to be, so I gave in.

As you say, once it's had the full treatment from GWX like SHIII has, I'll give it another go.

[TigerShark808]

Thanks for the advice guys!

I pinged the heck out of a couple of DD since asking this question and they failed to detect me. They went on with there business. So as of now Ill just say they don't hear/detect you.

Anyways..have givin up my 1942 career for a restart in 38. I just don't like skipping ahead If I have not earned it. Would explains why I have never set foot in a XXI .

[Torplexed]

I played it for a while before I got SHIII, the massive expanses of absolute nothing dotted with sampans bored the hell out of me. When I did find a decent target it was always in the shallows (and there are alot stretching for miles!) so if there were escorts I got depth charged to bits. I never came across any decent targets in deep water where my boat was meant to be, so I gave in.

SH4 will always be a different animal than SH3 since the Pacific and Atlantic submarine wars were alike in only that they pitted submarines versus an ASW system and not a very effective one in Japan's case.

One statistic alone highlights the difference between the two campaigns, and that is: German U-Boats lost: 785 versus US Submarines lost: 52 ( 2 of which were lost in the Atlantic Ocean ) The Atlantic war obviously involved many more submarines and was the more intense conflict for it.

The sheer volume of ships sailing in convoys crossing the North Atlantic from West to East and vice versa provided the U- Boat Fleet with an enormous number of targets for their deadly torpedoes. The U-Boats hunted in packs, the first boat to sight a convoy would home in his mates until a sufficient number of boats were able to gather and then attack in numbers. With bases in occupied France they didn't have as far to go.

In contrast, US submarines were based in Hawaii and in Brisbane, and Fremantle in Australia. They had a very long haul to reach their killing fields. In the vaster Pacific Japanese traffic was more dispersed as their ships often sailed alone and there were far fewer of them as Japan didn't have the Allied shipbuilding muscle. In addition, Japanese ships sometimes pulled into shallow water or inlets along their route for the night. US subs tended to hunt alone, although sometimes they operated as a group of three boats. Aircraft reconnaissance was not available like in the North Atlantic, thus making the finding of a suitable target much more difficult.

Aircraft went from being a nuisance in the Atlantic to being the most powerful enemy of the U-Boats sinking almost 50% of the total lost. Japan never quite grasped the potential of ASW aircraft and only sank 2 US subs by air.

In order for a Pacific submarine campaign sim to be less dull and as 'intense' as the Atlantic it would have probably have to be heavily ahistorical.

[TigerShark808]

In order for a Pacific submarine campaign sim to be less dull and as 'intense' as the Atlantic it would have probably have to be heavily ahistorical.


I don't have SH4 so I don't know the differences between the SH3 and SH4 but I would have to agree with this statement as far as both theaters were very different HISTORICALLY!

[Ford Prefect]

oh I understand that much, I'm not ignorant of war history. I think I could stand the boredom with the extra refinements GWX would bring. It make a huge difference to SHIII.

[TigerShark808]

Ford,
It was not my intention to call anyone ignorant towards War History, infact Im sure I could write many of papers on WW2 using the knowledge know in these rooms.
I was just "UNDERSTANDING" Torplexed and agreeing with him with the difference in both the Atlantic and Pacific theaters in ww2 :)

[Ford Prefect]

Don't worry, no offence taken.

[Wildhawke11]

Hello Ford Prefect
The first car i ever had was a Ford Popular. Now thats does age me dont it :)

[Jimbuna]

Hello Ford Prefect
The first car i ever had was a Ford Popular. Now thats does age me dont it :)

Brings back a few childhood memories :DL

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2421/26508.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/26508.jpg/)

I liken comparing ATO with PTO similar to comparing apples with pears.

Torplexed pretty much sums it up IMHO.

[Ford Prefect]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/gallery/images/340/fordprefect.jpg


This ford prefect was my inspiration.

[Graf Paper]

"Now there's a frood who really knows where his towel is!" :03:

[Torplexed]

This ford prefect was my inspiration.

Dent: "Three pints at lunchtime?"

Ford: "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so." ;)

http://pyxis.homestead.com/Dent_Ford.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

I deleted SH4 within 10 minutes of installation
Ten minutes? Really?That's not time enough to make a decision about any complex sim.

It's soooo boring isn't it?
I've been happily playing it in the Atlantic with OM installed - not bored at all. I still love SH3, especially with GWX, but every time I try a new mod out I end up reloading the whole thing. SH4 is much more stable in that regard. With that setup the question of Atlantic vs Pacific is also irrelevant.

[Wildhawke11]

Brings back a few childhood memories :DL

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2421/26508.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/26508.jpg/)

I liken comparing ATO with PTO similar to comparing apples with pears.

Torplexed pretty much sums it up IMHO.

It would blow anything off the road Jim, 0 to 60 in about 20 minutes :up:
Mind you it was a pleasure to drive in those days, hardly anything on the road. Stop of at a country pub for lunch and a beer. To be honest i hate driving today.
Thanks for the memories Jim.

[Ford Prefect]

It would blow anything off the road Jim, 0 to 60 in about 20 minutes :up:
Mind you it was a pleasure to drive in those days, hardly anything on the road. Stop of at a country pub for lunch and a beer. To be honest i hate driving today.
Thanks for the memories Jim.

Thats why I like taking my 125cc motorbike out onto the quiet lanes of derbyshire and sometimes lincolnshire on a nice weekend. Hardly any one about and you can just pottle about where you please, see a lane, wonder where it goes so head off to find out. It also gives me new places to indulge in my other hobby, photography :)

[Jimbuna]

It would blow anything off the road Jim, 0 to 60 in about 20 minutes :up:
Mind you it was a pleasure to drive in those days, hardly anything on the road. Stop of at a country pub for lunch and a beer. To be honest i hate driving today.
Thanks for the memories Jim.

Yeah....they don't build em like they used to :DL

[Melonfish]

LOl classic!
i think my father had something similar when i was a nipper! although in serious orange rather then the faded pastel blue.
what was with late 70's early 80's cars and their fixation on THAT colour blue? hehe

i helped a m8 do up a 73 austen allegro 1300 a few years ago, bloody nice it were got to dig those square steering wheels.

oh and back on topic, i tried my depth testing to the max whilst sat silently under a DD on its patrol route and it didn't even flinch.
idiots eh?

[Ford Prefect]

Can we start a special old gits section to the forums? where we can remember vintage cars, bikes etc and generally be grumpy about stuff? :P

[PavelKirilovich]

I support this "grumpy old gits" section, on the following conditions:

- Numerous "In my day, the Germans bombed us on our way to school" stories
- Walking sticks are used to beat "cheeky buggers" in a fashion that is "soundly, about the head, what-ho"
- Open bar.

Addendum:
- Open, well stocked bar.

[TigerShark808]

Ill start.

I remember when my school buddies would laugh at me when my father dropped me off in our 51 VW Station Wagon. And how I hated that thing so much.
http://www.oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Volkswagen/1959VWTypeIIStationWagon-o.jpg

NOW?

I would do almost anything to own one of these things. Almost anything :03:

[Uber Gruber]

1st Car: Mini -> Went over a hump back bridge, alas the suspension never came back down :cry:

2nd Car: Capri 1.6 Mk1 -> Drove it through a "Holywood" fence and up a tree on the way back from Goodwood racetrack.:wah:

3rd Car: Escort Mk1 -> Police banned me from using it on the road (twice) and gave me a suspended sentence.:down:

I remember free milk, dinner monitors and decent school meals, school buses and bay city roller flares.....can I join the Old Gits too :|\\

[KeybdFlyer]

At last! A topic that I can support & understand! All this talk about scripted layers and anti-disestablishment-aliasing to prevent catching jaggies - nonsense I say. They problem with kids today is that they're mollycoddled. Back when I bought my first car (a 1965 Austin Mini) I paid EXTRA to get the DeLuxe model. It was DeLuxe because it came with RUBBER FLOOR MATS and a single-speed, bolted-under-the-dashboard HEATER. None of your namby-pamby climate control or air-conditioning, you had to be a real man to drive a car back then! You want to listen to MUSIC while you're driving?!?!?! Pansy! Learn to whistle! In-car entertainment was what you got after you'd picked-up some bird at the pub and parked-up on Thorley Lane at the back of Ringway Airport. Dad's car had a starting handle, for god's sake! None of your fancy "turn the key then press the button" starting for HIM! (Trails off into general muttering about the cost of a decent pint these days...)

P.S. Don't encourage me, there's a lot more where that came from.

[Ford Prefect]

At last! A topic that I can support & understand! All this talk about scripted layers and anti-disestablishment-aliasing to prevent catching jaggies - nonsense I say. They problem with kids today is that they're mollycoddled. Back when I bought my first car (a 1965 Austin Mini) I paid EXTRA to get the DeLuxe model. It was DeLuxe because it came with RUBBER FLOOR MATS and a single-speed, bolted-under-the-dashboard HEATER. None of your namby-pamby climate control or air-conditioning, you had to be a real man to drive a car back then! You want to listen to MUSIC while you're driving?!?!?! Pansy! Learn to whistle! In-car entertainment was what you got after you'd picked-up some bird at the pub and parked-up on Thorley Lane at the back of Ringway Airport. Dad's car had a starting handle, for god's sake! None of your fancy "turn the key then press the button" starting for HIM! (Trails off into general muttering about the cost of a decent pint these days...)

P.S. Don't encourage me, there's a lot more where that came from.


What do you need music in a car fore when there's the engine making it's own music? I never feel any need for music when I'm on my motorbike!

I can still get a good pint for about £2 around here! Not everything has gone to pot ;)

[KeybdFlyer]

@Ford P

A man after my own heart. If you've time, take a listen to this bike:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7E75n-URV8 it's a CB160, exactly the type I had back in '66 and sounds exactly the same too. Read's of London did the engine work for me back then. If you've ever heard the Owen Greenwood Mini Special from the same era, that's what my little Austin Mini sounded like. Oh, and I used to pay 1/9d for a pint of beer (about 8½p), so £2.00 is a bit out of order to me! :) Kids today - grumble, grumble, rhubarb, rhubarb etc etc. :haha:

[Ford Prefect]

@Ford P

A man after my own heart. If you've time, take a listen to this bike:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7E75n-URV8 it's a CB160, exactly the type I had back in '66 and sounds exactly the same too. Read's of London did the engine work for me back then. If you've ever heard the Owen Greenwood Mini Special from the same era, that's what my little Austin Mini sounded like. Oh, and I used to pay 1/9d for a pint of beer (about 8½p), so £2.00 is a bit out of order to me! :) Kids today - grumble, grumble, rhubarb, rhubarb etc etc. :haha:



That bike does sound rather good, is it 2 stroke?

Myself I've got a 1996 model Suzuki GN125, with custom handle bars: http://www.flickr.com/photos/halfpenny/3515852194/in/set-72157603877345189/

£2 is alot compared to the old days, I remember stories from old work mates about them going out on a saturday night and taking only a fiver, getting blind drunk and still having change left! But compared to the going rate for a pint elsewhere £2 is pretty good. Especially compared to the prices I saw when I lived in norway for over 2 years, most cheap places charged 55kroner for a half litre of a crappy local brew that gave you a head ache like you'd been depth charged all night. Thats like £5 for less than a pint, the more expensive places or better beers cost closer to £10.

[Melonfish]

father in law restored a 58 "bathtub special" Triumph Thunderbird, he's also done a 58 C15 BSA which is damned nice and has the workings of a norton 73 commando 650 fastback (its getting there)
they all sound wonderfull when they're running but don't so much leak oil as pee it out at the rate of pints! (well ok not that bad)

[Ford Prefect]

I've always fancied having an Ariel Red Hunter, the older hard tail version with the sprung seat. There's one that knocked about my ears in good nick, looks and sounds lovely! Not sure how much oil leaks out of that though!

My dad owned a Francis Barnett Falcon back in his youth, think it had a 175cc engine. He got up to all sorts in it, did a trip to the Isle of Wight on it from here in north nottinghamshire. Apparently the bike would overheat every couple of hours breaking the crack case seal, which drew air and the bike stopped. Had to pull over and wait for it to cool down again before setting off.

My Suzuki isn't perfect but at least I've only ever had carb trouble and nowt so serious as that.

[sharkbit]

I think this thread has officially been de-railed! :arrgh!:
:haha:

[Ford Prefect]

I think this thread has officially been de-railed! :arrgh!:
:haha:

it's now the secret grumpy old git's thread ;)

[Jimbuna]

it's now the secret grumpy old git's thread ;)


http://www.amazing-animations.com/animations/men37.gif

[Ford Prefect]

http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/imagesgrumpy-20old-20men-20in-20black.jpg

grumpy but snappily dressed ;)

[Indiana_Jones]

Since everyone is bragging about their rides, I'll join in.

I own a 2003 Triumph Daytona 600 :yeah:

[KeybdFlyer]

@Jimbuna - where did you purloin that picture of me from? That was supposed to be kept under lock & key! :wah:

@Indiana Jones - 2003? That's still a baby and has no right to me even mentioned in the unofficial, secretly masquerading as a Subsim thread, admission only to those having passed their half-century, Old Gits Meeting Place. :D I'm still jealous all the same.

Just to placate the powers-that-be... Last night I executed what for me counts as a perfect convoy attack. Got right into the middle of the b@st@rds and dropped a Small Tanker, an Ore Carrier and two of the Medium Merchants IABL made. Escorts didn't even get a sniff of me so I didn't even have to go below PD. Headed off back down the track of the convoy to collect a couple of stragglers that were a good 9000mts astern of the main body of ships. Having ascertained they were worth hitting, I tapped the TC up to 32x and BOOM! - CTD without any further ado. I was more than slightly miffed - wife will be out of hospital tomorrow. :haha: On the re-load of the save I made before approaching the convoy, I got the sh!t DC out of me. :cry:

[KeybdFlyer]

Re my previous post (above)... I've been trying for 30 mins now to get the save made after the convoy encounter to load. Or maybe I should say to run. It loads ok, I can switch between stations ok, alter speed and course ok. Only for 30secs or so though. Then the dreaded ctd. Anybody got any ideas? I'm used to having corrupt saved games, currently it's running at about 15% failure rate. In my last patrol, I made 7 saves before ending the game; upon reloading the next day I had to go back save by save until I ended-up back "in base before mission". ALL of the saves were corrupt, but the ctd came at the "Not so long ago..." screen. This is a new twist, to me. Ah well, time to start working backwards again. :cry:

[Jimbuna]

@Jimbuna - where did you purloin that picture of me from? That was supposed to be kept under lock & key! :wah:



You want to be grateful I didn't post the other bugga :O:


http://www.freefever.com/animatedgifs/animated/men6.gif

[KeybdFlyer]

Jimbuna! That is just NOT fair! You could've at least tidied-up the image a bit, I do NOT have a boil on me bum (as you well know!) :haha:

In an attempt to stay with the subject, does anybody remember Potato Puffs from their schooldays? A small red bag of thin, crispy bubbles of potato that were gorgeous - made by Burtons, I think. Or how about Domino cigarettes? Four really small cigs in a paper packet the size of (you guessed didn't you?) a domino, with six matches taped to the side? I think they were 6d a pack (± 2½p a pkt)

@Ford Prefect. No! The CB160 was NOT a two-stroke, lol. Honda engineering allowed it to go up to 11,500rpm in standard form. The one in that vid revs to 12,500rpm. Btw, The Prefect was the car I was first offered at the showroom. They wanted £50 for it if I remember right, a sort of mucky tan colour. It only had a three-speed gearbox though, with no syncromesh on first, so I gave it a miss and got the Mini instead. :DL

[Ford Prefect]

@Ford Prefect. No! The CB160 was NOT a two-stroke, lol. Honda engineering allowed it to go up to 11,500rpm in standard form. The one in that vid revs to 12,500rpm. Btw, The Prefect was the car I was first offered at the showroom. They wanted £50 for it if I remember right, a sort of mucky tan colour. It only had a three-speed gearbox though, with no syncromesh on first, so I gave it a miss and got the Mini instead. :DL


I only guessed it was 4 stroke as many older small engined bikes were, in order to get extra power at the expence of engine life. It certainly sounds nice though!

Regards the car, it sounds like you got the best one. I've never experienced a "crash gearbox" myself, but I'd like to one day, I'm not a big car person but I have a soft spot for a few, morris minors (my dad owned many), Volvo Amazons, Volvo PV544 (saw both alot in my time in norway, nice looking and very solid!) Renault 4CV (reminds me of a moggy but with suicide doors! :D ) and the citroen 2CV since you can dismantle the engine on the kitchen table and if you stick them into a traffic island or corner fast enough they go onto 3 wheels :DL

My great grandad once owned a Brough Superior and for some reason he sold the bugger! Last time I saw one up for sale it was £45,000 starting bid! How I'd love to own one!

[KeybdFlyer]

Crash boxes were a joy for one reason only... Once you got the technique right and could double de-clutch with finesse, it looked really impressive to your passenger(s) to drop down into first with your feet in a blur and your hand stirring the gear lever like you were mixing a pudding! A casual shrug of the shoulders and a smug smile to brush aside their praise at your driving skills and the night was guaranteed to be a good 'un! :D

Ever pushed a Hillman Imp hard? That'd lift its front wheel like it was waving at the pedestrians! Trouble was, you'd then lost half the front-end grip and went into "Oh god I've reached full lock already!" understeer! :har: And my Mini lifted its rear wheel like a dog having a pee!

I hope your GD got a decent price! So many items I used to have that I sold for next to nothing (extreme monetary emergencies usually). A complete set of Beatles LPs & 45s (you know, the vinyl discs that you played by running a small diamond stylus along a bumpy groove cut into its surface), in mint condition, all bought on the day of release - £72. I found out later most were valued at around £200 each.

[Ford Prefect]

Crash boxes were a joy for one reason only... Once you got the technique right and could double de-clutch with finesse, it looked really impressive to your passenger(s) to drop down into first with your feet in a blur and your hand stirring the gear lever like you were mixing a pudding! A casual shrug of the shoulders and a smug smile to brush aside their praise at your driving skills and the night was guaranteed to be a good 'un! :D

Ever pushed a Hillman Imp hard? That'd lift its front wheel like it was waving at the pedestrians! Trouble was, you'd then lost half the front-end grip and went into "Oh god I've reached full lock already!" understeer! :har: And my Mini lifted its rear wheel like a dog having a pee!

I hope your GD got a decent price! So many items I used to have that I sold for next to nothing (extreme monetary emergencies usually). A complete set of Beatles LPs & 45s (you know, the vinyl discs that you played by running a small diamond stylus along a bumpy groove cut into its surface), in mint condition, all bought on the day of release - £72. I found out later most were valued at around £200 each.


I always noticed something very purposeful about older drivers who learnt in cars with crash boxes and drum brakes. Especially when slowing for a junction etc, changing down through the box employing engine braking because as my dad once put it to me, you only used old drum brakes in anger once or twice and then spent a weekend working on the buggers.

I've never pushed any car hard as I don't drive, not yet at least. I'll get around to it once I have the money to do an intensive course. Week by week lessons just don't cut it for me, good instructors are at a premium round here so you're often left with the dregs, like the guy who finishes his day after tutoring by having a few pints in the fox and crown before DRIVING home in the learner car!

Not sure what price he got for the brough, I'd wager it was far less than what it was worth, it was sold because they needed the money and because he'd lost one of his legs and could no longer ride. My mother pulled a great stunt when I was younger when she threw out my collection of die cast toy cars. They weren't junkers either, some were old, some newer but all would have gained value in time and I had loads. She just got rid of them at a charity shop! Along with other stuff which was sat in the loft at the time, she claimed she was trying to tidy up to make it more presentable, which was a laugh in itself as no one ever went up there except me, not even her!

[KeybdFlyer]

Hmm. Not sure if I like the phrase "older drivers", you young whippersnapper. Maybe "vastly experienced" or "highly proficient" would be more in keeping with the level of respect you surely have for your elders! :haha:

The intensive course you mention is exactly how I learned to drive. On the road at 8.00am, then drive all day until sunset - which, as it was summer meant that I was doing 12-14 hours a day for two weeks (not weekends). It certainly was a great way to see most of northern England and the instructor knew every steep hill, winding lane and awkward parking area along the way.

Final comment. I want a motorbike again. :cry: Nothing huge, I nice little 250 would be good. I want to wear-out the edges of my boots on the road surface again! Miss that.

[Ford Prefect]

Final comment. I want a motorbike again. :cry: Nothing huge, I nice little 250 would be good. I want to wear-out the edges of my boots on the road surface again! Miss that.

Just take it steady if you do, there's lots of bikers young and old killing themselves these days. One of my mum's neighbours went under a lorry last month, a dutch friend of mine crashed his bike a fortnight ago, both accidents caused by excess speed. It's why I'm being careful when out on my 125, no speed demon, tops out at 70mph but still fast enough to kill you for sure. We appear to be doomed so a wet august as well as a wet july so not having much chance to get out any way :nope: