Soldier balks at deploying; says Obama isn’t president

[SteamWake]

Someone explain to this guy that it is a volenteer army. You volonteer to join not where to go :hmmm:

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/776335.html

[AVGWarhawk]

Cook further states he “would be acting in violation of international law by engaging in military actions outside the United States under this President’s command. ... simultaneously subjecting himself to possible prosecution as a war criminal by the faithful execution of these duties.”


He has a point. Personally, I'm not satisfied with the paperwork produced showing citizenship of Obama. I believe I'm not alone. :hmmm:

[CastleBravo]

The interesting part of this, beyond that we may not want the officer to serve after this, is that this may actually require Mr. Obama to release an original birth certificate, iso spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep it supressed.

[Tchocky]

Wow, the Secret Service, FBI, CIA and NSA really dropped the ball on this one.

[Max2147]

I thought American soldiers were supposed to be politically neutral while on duty?

I have a feeling that this particular soldier wouldn't serve under this Commander in Chief even if there were absolutely no legal quesitons surrounding his presidency. The citizenship thing is just an excuse, as it is for most people who bring it up.

[geetrue]

The interesting part of this, beyond that we may not want the officer to serve after this, is that this may actually require Mr. Obama to release an original birth certificate, iso spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep it supressed.

If there is nothing to hide ... why hide it.

The law at the time did not include the age of his mother at 17 to have a baby to become a legal citizen of the USA

Obama has spent a lot of money to supress it and the other side has spent a lot of money to uncover it.

Here is what Pat Boone has to say about it, yes Pat Boone: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/06/barack-obama-birth-certificate.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/06/barack-obama-birth-certificate.html)

If I have to produce my passport, my driver’s license, my birth certificate, for things like leaving the country and returning, buying and selling and leasing and renting — all the things ordinary citizens are required to do all the time — why then, in the name of decency and equality, and, in the “open” and “transparent” approach to government Obama promised, should our elected leader not do the same?

[mookiemookie]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_k2rfk6VyHkQ/SFaF7R_8BnI/AAAAAAAAAc8/cMuzXd79iTA/s400/TinFoilHatArea.jpg

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

[CastleBravo]

Mr. Obama's college transcripts could also be reveling, since they are also being supressed. On his admission application did he list some other country as his place of birth? Kenya perhaps?

[SteamWake]

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/obama_youth_04.jpg

add some text

[CastleBravo]

Wow, the Secret Service, FBI, CIA and NSA really dropped the ball on this one.

The State Department would most likely be the culprit here. They handle passports and a birth certificate is required to receive one as a US Citizen. If he needed a US passport.

[geetrue]

Read into this whatever you may ... this is what Bill Clinton had to say on August 4th, 2008 (Bill is also reffered to as bubba)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/08/04/2008-08-04_bill_clinton_given_golden_opportunity_fa.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/08/04/2008-08-04_bill_clinton_given_golden_opportunity_fa.html)


"I never was mad at Sen. Obama," Bubba said. "I think everybody's got a right to run for President who qualifies under the Constitution. And I'd be the last person to begrudge anybody their ambition."


They (Mr and Mrs Clinton) were talking about it behind closed doors ...

There has been (so far) no successful law suit tried about the birth certificate for the supreme court to over turn.

P.S. Obama was born August 4, 1961. He is currently 47 years old as of July 2009.

Notice the date Bill Clinton said what he said above ...

I threw my tin hat away ... this is serious stuff

[geetrue]

add some text

This is the year 2009 ... people who smoked pot in the sixties are now in charge and guess who their president is ...

[CastleBravo]

This is the year 2009 ... people who smoked pot in the sixties are now in charge and guess who their president is ...

A guy who smoked pot in the '70s and '80s?

[Oberon]

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/obama_youth_04.jpg

"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Mambo number five..."

[mookiemookie]

Read into this whatever you may ... this is what Bill Clinton had to say on August 4th, 2008 (Bill is also reffered to as bubba)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/08/04/2008-08-04_bill_clinton_given_golden_opportunity_fa.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/08/04/2008-08-04_bill_clinton_given_golden_opportunity_fa.html)



They (Mr and Mrs Clinton) were talking about it behind closed doors ...

There has been (so far) no successful law suit tried about the birth certificate for the supreme court to over turn.

P.S. Obama was born August 4, 1961. He is currently 47 years old as of July 2009.

Notice the date Bill Clinton said what he said above ...

I threw my tin hat away ... this is serious stuff

So Obama has gone through his entire life, either fooling or being in cahoots with the Illinois Dept of Motor Vehicles, Harvard, the Illinois State Bar, the Hawaii Department of Health, election officials in 50 states, the Democratic Party, the Clinton campaign, and the Mccain campaign. And because his secret Elitist Terrorist Muslim Kenyan Marxist masters who are plotting the downfall of America are just that thorough, they planted false birth announcements in both the Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star Bulletin back in 1961.

I'm glad that we've discovered this plot that stretches over four decades and spans across all levels of state and federal government. :roll:

[Max2147]

The State Department would most likely be the culprit here. They handle passports and a birth certificate is required to receive one as a US Citizen. If he needed a US passport.
From the PolitiFact article: "If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State's office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies."

It's a bit like the 9/11 hoax/inside job conspiracy theories. There would have to be a lot of people on the inside who at least knew what was going on, and they're not all going to stay silent. Our government is one of the most open, and thus one of the most leaky out there. I mean, one recent President couldn't even keep a blowjob secret. If such a massive crime against our country came from the inside, you'd never be able to keep it a secret.

A lot of different agencies and individuals would have to have been involved in this Obama hoax. Any person who blew the whistle would certainly be handsomely rewarded by the other side. The fact that we haven't heard a whistle means that there almost certainly isn't a whistle to blow.

It's annoying that these things go around, because as the PolitiFact article points out, conspriacy theories cost the government (and thus taxpayers) a lot of money. The TWA 800 investigator says that the conspiracy theories around that investigation cost the public $20 million. And in a lot of cases the people forcing the government to spend that money are the very ones who complain that the government spends too much. Freaking hypocrites.:damn:

[Rilder]

I'M PRESIDENT!

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1996/spartacus.jpg

:rotfl:

[SteamWake]

I'M PRESIDENT!



:rotfl:

go fight in the shade :har:

[Tchocky]

Oberon wins the thread.

But his username is a little too familiar, a little to close to you-know-who. I think he's in on the plot.

We're keeping an eye on you, Comrade.

[Sea Demon]

From the PolitiFact article: "If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud.

OK. Then just release the damn birth certificate and shut everyone who is concerned up. It's that simple. The fact that they can't or won't leaves doubt....like it or not. I myself would like to see the documents that prove eligibility.

I want to know which hospital Obama was born in. Not reported by Internet article, but by proof of birth certificate. Most people who defend Obama on this issue have no clue themselves what hospital Obama was born in and can't prove it as no proof has been provided.

[CastleBravo]

Why has Mr. Obama spent so much money suppressing the documents?

Transparency?

[geetrue]

Is Barrack Obama a legal citizen?

Citizen of the United States of America???

Natural born???

Both parents US citizens???

Mother 18 or older???

I don't think so ...


http://sites.google.com/site/obamabirth/ (http://sites.google.com/site/obamabirth/)


Barack Obama was on the ballot of every state. Certainly, this means that he filed his candidacy and made allegations in his candidacy in all these states that he is a natural born citizen. And certainly, the government agencies involved did not merely take him at his word but required his proof of natural born citizenship.

Certainly, all these applications in each state have attachments proving the same. How old is he? Is he at least 35? Was he born of US parents on US soil? All these information are understood to have been given to all the government agencies who accepted his candidacy.

So how come citizens are challenging Barack’s qualifications?

Isn’t this the job of the government agencies to challenge the allegations of all candidates?


http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/1265554158.html (http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/1265554158.html)

A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.

Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department's Criminal Investigations Division.

Cmdr. Anzallo said a police officer was patrolling the neighborhood when gunshots were heard, then Lt. Harris was found dead inside the vehicle, which investigators would describe only as a blue car.

Emergency medics pronounced him dead at the scene.

I bet Mrs Clinton by now knows the truth ... what will be the final outcome is up to who?

[Sea Demon]

What hospital was Obama born in? And who was the doctor who delivered him?

[Tchocky]

What was the weather like?

[GoldenRivet]

So Obama has gone through his entire life, either fooling or being in cahoots with the Illinois Dept of Motor Vehicles, Harvard, the Illinois State Bar, the Hawaii Department of Health, election officials in 50 states, the Democratic Party, the Clinton campaign, and the Mccain campaign.

I doubt it... but

you would be surprised what you can do with the campaign finance money given to you by a Saudi Prince.

Your oval office has been purchased in cash funds by the Saudis. :nope:

wake up kids

[mookiemookie]

OK. Then just release the damn birth certificate and shut everyone who is concerned up. It's that simple. The fact that they can't or won't leaves doubt....like it or not. I myself would like to see the documents that prove eligibility.

It won't do a shred of good, as nothing will ever be good enough proof. They have already released the birth certificate. It's been validated by numerous agencies and uninvolved people. The State of Hawaii says it's valid.

When we spoke to a spokeswoman for the Hawaii Department of Health, she said too much was being made of the difference between the so-called "long" and "short" forms.

"They're just words," said spokeswoman Janice Okubo. "That (what was posted on the Internet) is considered a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii."

"There's only one form of birth certificate," she said, and it's been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now.

"When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site," she said. "That's the birth certificate."

As for the theory that Obama's original birth certificate might show he was foreign-born, Okubo said the "Certification of Live Birth" would say so. Obama's does not. Again, it says he was born in Honolulu.

But it's not good enough. It never will be. So these ridiculous calls are ignored and treated like the lunatic conspiracy theories they are.

One thing these people never address: If he was not born in the U.S., why were birth announcements published in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961?

In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13 (http://88.80.13.160.nyud.net/leak/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser.pdf) , 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day (http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ObamaBirthStarBulletin.jpg) . They both said the same thing: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4."

But here's the thing. Newspaper officials he checked with confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.

"That's not the kind of stuff a family member calls in and says, 'Hey, can you put this in?'" Hoover explained.

Take a second and think about that. In order to phony those notices up, it would have required the complicity of the state Health Department and two independent newspapers — on the off chance this unnamed child might want to one day be president of the United States.

Explain that.

[GoldenRivet]

with enough saudi oil money invested into my campaign... i could find a birth certificate, news paper article and several other documents attesting to the supposed "fact" that Osama Bin Laden was born to white parents in Waco, Texas in 1966

[Tchocky]

you would be surprised what you can do with the campaign finance money given to you by a Saudi Prince.

Your oval office has been purchased in cash funds by the Saudis. :nope:

wake up kids
Which President are you talking about there?

[CastleBravo]

It appears questions persist. Even amoung the level headed membership of Susim.com.

[mookiemookie]

with enough saudi oil money invested into my campaign... i could find a birth certificate, news paper article and several other documents attesting to the supposed "fact" that Osama Bin Laden was born to white parents in Waco, Texas in 1966

So these sooper sekret agents of a wealthy Saudi prince broke into the library in Hawaii, planted the doctored microfiche, paid off Harvard, the Illinois State Bar, all of the election officals, blahblahblahblah.....

:har::haha:

[Sea Demon]

It won't do a shred of good, as nothing will ever be good enough proof. They have already released the birth certificate.

That's a total cop out. It would do good. It would actually put the issue to rest for most people. Perhaps not everybody. But so what. Obama has something to prove. And, they have not released any birth certificate. They have released a COLB. Doesn't show his hospital of birth, and doesn't show the doctor who delivered him.


But it's not good enough. It never will be. So these ridiculous calls are ignored and treated like the lunatic conspiracy theories they are.

Quit your blind hero worship of this guy mookie. Most people who are concerned about this issue simply want proof of eligibility. There are many things which puts his eligibility in doubt. And the fact that Obama has actually hired a team of lawyers to hide his records doesn't help him. It actually lends more credibility to those who want the truth.


One thing these people never address: If he was not born in the U.S., why were birth announcements published in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961?

Explain that. I have thought about that. And I'm not sure. But it could have happened after he was brought in from abroad. A newspaper announcement is not exactly a time consuming or difficult process. Simply put, I just wish Obama would stop suing to cover everything up and just release the damn birth certificate. Until then, I have my doubts. And Obama's actions only reinforces it.

[Sea Demon]

In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13 (http://88.80.13.160.nyud.net/leak/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser.pdf) , 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day (http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ObamaBirthStarBulletin.jpg) . They both said the same thing: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4."

But here's the thing. Newspaper officials he checked with confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.

Then it should be an easy thing to prove mookie....with the release of his official long form birth certificate. Right? Actually this could be over in 5 minutes.

I wonder who these so called "Newspaper officials" were. I like names for credibility's sake.

[geetrue]

Rather ironic ... Does vetting include who paid for your college, does it include the two passports someone had, does it answer who is a natural born citizen?:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/14/clinton-rips-vetting-steps-for-nominees/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/14/clinton-rips-vetting-steps-for-nominees/)

Hillary Clinton rips 'vetting' process


Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton blasted the government vetting and clearance process Monday, blaming it for long delays in announcing nominees for key positions in the State Department.

She also criticized the procedure's intrusiveness for discouraging highly qualified candidates from accepting senior posts.

"The clearance and vetting process is a nightmare, and it takes far longer than any of us would want to see. It is frustrating beyond words," Mrs. Clinton said. "I mean, it is ridiculous. Some very good people just didn't want to be vetted."

[mookiemookie]

Then it should be an easy thing to prove mookie....with the release of his official long form birth certificate. Right? Actually this could be over in 5 minutes.

I wonder who these so called "Newspaper officials" were. I like names for credibility's sake.

Like I said, it will never prove anything to you. So they don't waste time on it. As they shouldn't.

[Sea Demon]

Like I said, it will never prove anything to you. So they don't waste time on it. As they shouldn't.

Yes it would. I would close the door on the issue if I could see a cerified copy of his long form birth certificate. Many others would too.

Your response is a typical cop out. And a lost issue on your part. So, Mr. mookie, since you're so convinced and seem to have all the answers...please tell us all which hospital Mr. Obama was born in, and who the attending physician was.

[AVGWarhawk]

It appears questions persist. Even amoung the level headed membership of Susim.com.

Sure do. I'm not satisfied with the seemingly brand new birth certificate produced. I think it was something that was truly overlooked as he was groomed and the campaign orchestrated for over 2 years.

[mookiemookie]

Yes it would. I would close the door on the issue if I could see a cerified copy of his long form birth certificate. Many others would too.

Your response is a typical cop out. And a lost issue on your part. So, Mr. mookie, since you're so convinced and seem to have all the answers...please tell us all which hospital Mr. Obama was born in, and who the attending physician was.

I honestly don't care. Hawaii has validated the birth certificate and that's all that matters.

[Sea Demon]

I honestly don't care. Hawaii has validated the birth certificate and that's all that matters.

Yet, Obama won't let anybody view his long form birth certificate. Actually, he's suing to keep it from being released. And the state of Hawaii has it locked up tight. And you still don't know which hospital Obama was born in, and cannot tell us who the attending physician was. I'm far from satisfied, and have serious doubts about his eligibility. And the proof is easy to provide. I wonder why he won't provide it. It's seriously a 2 minute phone call.


I think it was something that was truly overlooked as he was groomed and the campaign orchestrated for over 2 years.

Actually, it may just be that this is something they were hoping everybody would just simply miss. I can see that happening. It wouldn't be the first time they have underestimated the public. Remember Rathergate? I'm looking forward to the truth on this one. Eligible or not. Trust me, somebody is going to get to the bottom of this.

[geetrue]

This not just about a birth certificate

The first time Mr Obama brought up the fact that he had visited Pakistan was two weeks after his records at the State Department had been illegally accessed ....

http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/1265554158.html (http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/1265554158.html)



The Obama campaign did not respond to an invitation to comment on some of the speculation surrounding the visit to Pakistan or to provide further details about the trip.

According to published reports in Pakistan, Obama in 1981 also stayed at the home of a prominent politician, Ahmad Mian Soomro, in an upscale Karachi suburb, and went on a traditional partridge hunting trip north of Karachi. Soomro’s son, Muhammad Mian Soomro, is a senior politician who served as acting president before the appointment of President Asif Ali Zardari last September.

This is one too many coincidences for me.

The amazing and frightening thing about Obama is the vagueness surrounding his past. He's a cypher. Especially, the time around his college years. He has not released his college transcripts and records which would indicate the types of classes he was enrolled in and whom they were taught by-most likely far left professors like Edward Said and Rashid Khalidi.

They would indicate whether he applied to Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard as US citizen or an Indonesian citizen, not to mention how he paid for three private university educations c.f. financial connection to Khalid Al-Mansour.

As for his 'Spring Break' trip to Pakistan in 1981, besides the fact that Pakistan was one of the last places sane college students would holiday, the people he traveled to Pakistan with, The Chandoo Brothers and Solhal Siddiqui are Muslims, implying that Obama was at the very least sympathetic to Islam.

[Schroeder]

I only read half of the thread so please forgive if this has already been asked. I still remember a lot of lawyers fighting for who should become president back when Bush and Gore ran for it. Why wouldn't the republicans engage plenty of lawyers again to get rid of Obama if there was a chance to do so?

[PeriscopeDepth]

http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/1265554158.html (http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/1265554158.html)

And here we have it...the most credible citation in this thread is a Houston area craigslist posting.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2009Mar30/0,4670,ObamaRaceandRumor,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2009Mar05/0,4670,ObamaCitizenship,00.html

PD

[August]

I honestly don't care. Hawaii has validated the birth certificate and that's all that matters.

Why do I think you'd have a different opinion if Obama had an R after his name instead of a D?

[Max2147]

Why do I think you'd have a different opinion if Obama had an R after his name instead of a D?
You should ask the same question of this soldier who's refusing to serve.

If Obama were a Republican, he'd probably serve under him as President even if Obama waved a Kenyan birth certificate in his face.

[CastleBravo]

Why don't Mr. Obama's supporters just do the sane thing and prove all the tin-hat folks wrong by asking Mr. Obama to release the documents, iso spending so much money to suppress said documents. Sounds like a simple solution, no?

[August]

You should ask the same question of this soldier who's refusing to serve.

There were legal questions around Bush's first election, but the vast majority of Dems never questioned Bush's authority as President. I don't recall any troops refusing to serve under Bush because of the issues surrounding the 2000 election. I've heard plenty of Dems grumble that Bush shouldn't be President because of his policies, but I never heard any say that our troops shouldn't obey his orders because some sketchy things (might have) happened in Florida in 2000.

Well Max the vast majority of Republicans don't question Obamas authority either, but since you ask, IIRC there were several servicemen who refused to serve during Bush's tenure as President citing stolen elections and illegal wars as reasons for refusing to do their duty.

I had no more sympathy for them than I do for this latest shirker. Every one of them ought to be put in front of a firing squad.

[CaptainHaplo]

Back to the original subject - I have an issue with the soldier in two regards.

As an officer, had he had issues with, what is until proven otherwise, the current president - he should have resigned immediately.

Second - notice he only makes this refusal upon being ordered to deploy. Thus, like those that argued that George W Bush was appointed instead of elected initially and tried to use that arguement after recieving similiar orders, I must be consistent in my criticism and tell him that his credibility for this being a true issue is bullocks.

He may have an arguement - but his timing and handling of it remove any legitimacy to his personal claim that he cannot be legally deployed.

[Max2147]

Anyways, the whole issue of where Obama was born is moot, since he was born to an American parent. That means he had American citizenship from birth. The Constitution, nor other American law, specifies that a person must be born in the United States to be a natural born citizen. In fact, one of the few mentions of the term in early American law explicitly grants natural born citizenship to chilrden born overseas to American parents.

There is a legal method for the Senate to challenge the President's eligibilty on any grounds, including citizenship. If there were any legitimate doubts about Obama's citizenship, I have a feeling the GOP would have used those methods by now, but they haven't. In fact, the Senate (and the House) unanimously certified Obama as the winner of the election.

Anyways, if you say that Obama can't be a natural born citizen if he was born outside the US, then you'd have had to disqualify McCain as well. His parents were both Americans living in the Panama Canal Zone (US territory), but the hospital where he was born was outside the Canal Zone. It was a Navy hospital, but US-owned buildings overseas are explicitly NOT American territory unless they're part of an Embassy, which that hospital was not. So technically McCain was born in Panama.

Do I think that John McCain is a natural born citizen of the United States? Yes, even though he wasn't born in the United States. Obama, through is American mother, is also a natural born citizen, regardless of where he was born.

[Max2147]

Well Max the vast majority of Republicans don't question Obamas authority either, but since you ask, IIRC there were several servicemen who refused to serve during Bush's tenure as President citing stolen elections and illegal wars as reasons for refusing to do their duty.

I had no more sympathy for them than I do for this latest shirker. Every one of them ought to be put in front of a firing squad.
Thanks for the info, I was not aware of that. I also don't have any sympathy for them.

I should, however, differentiate between soldiers who shirk their duty when they are ordered into combat zones and soldiers who leave the military out of principle. I don't have any problems with soldiers who leave the military because they feel that they would be forced to carry out actions that are against their personal beliefs, regardless of who the President is. I see that as the same as a politician who resigns because they don't agree with a policy. However, there's no excuse for staying in our all-volunteer military and refusing to carry out orders because of your political leanings.

[CastleBravo]

Then if you feel comfortable in all this why doesn't POTUS release all his records? Potus isn't comfortable I guess.

[Max2147]

Why don't Mr. Obama's supporters just do the sane thing and prove all the tin-hat folks wrong by asking Mr. Obama to release the documents, iso spending so much money to suppress said documents. Sounds like a simple solution, no?
He has. As the spokeswoman at the Hawaii Department of Health said, the document Obama released is "a valid Hawaii birth certificate." If a Hawaiian asks for a copy of their birth certificate, that's what they get.

But as mookie has said in this thread, nothing will ever be enough to satisfy the conspiracy theorists.

[Buddahaid]

Simple, the name on the birth certificate is Susan and whatever.

Buddahaid

[CastleBravo]

He has. As the spokeswoman at the Hawaii Department of Health said, the document Obama released is "a valid Hawaii birth certificate." If a Hawaiian asks for a copy of their birth certificate, that's what they get.

But as mookie has said in this thread, nothing will ever be enough to satisfy the conspiracy theorists.

My understanding is that the keeper of records said it was an' accurate representation' of his Certificate of Live birth. Parsing the truth me thinks.

Release the original documents, and be done with it, no?

[CaptainHaplo]

Max - actually your wrong.

Any NAVAL hospital is considered US Government Property - thus is soveriegn US Soil. To be considered a "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN" then one must have been born on sovereign US Soil. This is why certain islanders have taken to boats, thrown themselves overboard when a coast guard cutter approaches - to be fished out of the water. The stress in very late term pregnancies of such an ordeal causes the birth of the child - which has occured more than once on the deck of a soveriegn US ship. Since the ship is property and part of the military arm, it is considered US "Soil", so the child is automatically a citizen, and the parent or parents end up staying to care for the child, since it cannot be deported.

The only exception to this "natural born" clause is that if one parent is a member of the military, and is deployed outside of the US, and the child is born to them in the deployed location, the child is considered natural born.
In this case - John McCain is doubly covered in that he was born where he was due to his family being deployed on US military duty.

I highly doubt that Barak's mother was a deployed member of the military if he was born outside US soil.

Allow me to give one further example. If you have a sister who is pregnant - and she decides to go with her husband/significant other to France on holiday - and has the baby early, in france - that child is NOT a "NATURAL BORN" citizen. They can be given citizen ship status, but the are not legally termed natural born. This is a big distinction, as the legal requirements for running are quite clear.

Lastly - I say it doesn't matter because in 3 years it will all come out that it was a mistake and the decision will be made to let him continue in office - thus setting the precedent for AH-Nald to run.....

[Max2147]

My understanding is that the keeper of records said it was an' accurate representation' of his Certificate of Live birth. Parsing the truth me thinks.

Release the original documents, and be done with it, no?
The part I quoted was the verbatim quote from the Hawaii Department of Health's spokesperson. She also said that she got an identical form when she requested a copy of her own birth certificate.

[GoldenRivet]

So these sooper sekret agents of a wealthy Saudi prince broke into the library in Hawaii, planted the doctored microfiche, paid off Harvard, the Illinois State Bar, all of the election officals, blahblahblahblah.....

:har::haha:

thats not what i said ;) - not exactly.

Just open your eyes and look thats all...

get out a big white board, map out and follow the money chain, you would be surprised.

[Max2147]

Max - actually your wrong.

Any NAVAL hospital is considered US Government Property - thus is soveriegn US Soil. To be considered a "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN" then one must have been born on sovereign US Soil. This is why certain islanders have taken to boats, thrown themselves overboard when a coast guard cutter approaches - to be fished out of the water. The stress in very late term pregnancies of such an ordeal causes the birth of the child - which has occured more than once on the deck of a soveriegn US ship. Since the ship is property and part of the military arm, it is considered US "Soil", so the child is automatically a citizen, and the parent or parents end up staying to care for the child, since it cannot be deported.

The only exception to this "natural born" clause is that if one parent is a member of the military, and is deployed outside of the US, and the child is born to them in the deployed location, the child is considered natural born.
In this case - John McCain is doubly covered in that he was born where he was due to his family being deployed on US military duty.

I highly doubt that Barak's mother was a deployed member of the military if he was born outside US soil.

Allow me to give one further example. If you have a sister who is pregnant - and she decides to go with her husband/significant other to France on holiday - and has the baby early, in france - that child is NOT a "NATURAL BORN" citizen. They can be given citizen ship status, but the are not legally termed natural born. This is a big distinction, as the legal requirements for running are quite clear.

Lastly - I say it doesn't matter because in 3 years it will all come out that it was a mistake and the decision will be made to let him continue in office - thus setting the precedent for AH-Nald to run.....
Quoting from a Foreign Affairs Manual: "Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to U.S. jurisdiction and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."

The specific exception for military personnel has only been introduced recently. As a matter of fact, Obama co-sponsored the bill.

Again, I 100% believe that McCain is a natural born citizen of the United States, since he got his citizenship by birth. My point is that the entire issue is bogus, since nobody debates the citizenship of Obama's mother, or the fact that he was an American citizen by birth as well.

This whole equation of natural born citizen with being born in the US is bogus, since the term was never defined in the Constitution, and has never been definitively defined as such in American law or case law.

[Max2147]

thats not what i said ;) - not exactly.

Just open your eyes and look thats all...

get out a big white board, map out and follow the money chain, you would be surprised.
Again, which President are you talking about?

Take any President in the last 100 years, map out their money trail, and I'm sure you'd be able to connect them all to some unsavory figures. You could probably connect FDR to Hitler, Ike to Stalin, JFK to Castro, and so on. It doesn't mean that FDR was a Nazi, Ike was a Commie, or that JFK had an awesome beard. In fact, it doesn't mean anything, just like Obama's money chain doesn't prove that he's some puppet of corrupt Saudi princes who are plotting to turn the US over to Osama Bin Laden.

[CastleBravo]

The part I quoted was the verbatim quote from the Hawaii Department of Health's spokesperson. She also said that she got an identical form when she requested a copy of her own birth certificate.

Then why is Mr. Obama fighting the release of documents in court? Confusing, ain't it?

[GoldenRivet]

there has always been political and monetary connections with the saudis.

but in this case, we have a saudi prince saying "we want Obama in the white house... pay whatever price necessary to put him there" and then making it so.

i wonder how much DIRECT cash towards campaign finance came from nations that are our enemies.

it is the most masterful infiltration of American government in history.

want to hurt someone - hit em in the wallet...

Mission objective one of the Saudi Agent in the white house - destroy the economy.

Mission objective one - accomplished

[UnderseaLcpl]

Honestly, I don't understand this continued insistence that Obama is not a U.S. citizen. Is it possible? Maybe. Is it even remotely probable? No.

Closet communists though they may be, I seriously doubt that the Democratic Party would, at any level, knowingly endorse a non-US citizen because he was being bankrolled by the Saudis or OPEC or anybody else for that matter. I mean, why even bother? It would be a ludicrously dangerous move in the political sense, and it isn't as if there's a shortage of muslim orators and politicians with anti-American agendas who were actually born in the U.S. What on God's green earth could the Dems possibly have to gain from installing such a man in office?
I think this whole thing is exactly what it appears to be, and nothing more. Obama may be a socialist weasel, but he's not part of some vast conspiracy to.....whatever.......:-?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm going to point out the truly outrageous thing here; A U.S. military officer shirking his duty in time of war, displaying cowardice, and undermining the Commander-in-Chief and the entire chain of command. Last time I checked, that was treason, and it doesn't matter if he thinks the CinC is legitimate or not. This man has had plenty of time to resign his commission and seek administrative seperation, which he evidently did not.

I think cases like this are a sad commentary on the state of the U.S. military in general. Imo, it is high time we reformed the military's manpower base and recruiting doctrine into something more befitting a professional soldiery. Ours can hardly be an armed force characterized by "consummate professionalism" when it is comprised in part of ASVAB waivers, criminal background waivers, would-be community college alumni, and politicians in uniform.

The U.S. military is an all-volunteer force, and because of that it is more professional and competent than conscription-based militaries, but we need to take the next logical step and create an all-professional force.
We do not need more troops so much as we need troops who are better qualified and equipped for modern high and low-intensity theatres of operation. We have spent too much time already fighting the last war with the last army. The wars of the present and the future demand more specialized and qualified combat professionals. Our dogmatic insistence upon attempting to match the enemy man for man may work sometimes, but it is a costly endeavour in terms of lives on both sides. The chicken**** major in the OP may not concern some people, but that jackass could easily get a whole platoon killed or cause a civilian massacre because he is a coward. Men and women like him should never even be given the opportunity to serve.

My feeling is that the U.S. military needs much stricter entry requirements and training, and a pay-scale befitting those requirements. Other incentives, like money for college, are fine so long as the beneficiaries understand that they are in a system where they are soldiers first and students second. Above all, they need to understand that they are sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States even at the cost of their lives, and they need to be willing to accept that responsibility at all times. Of course, it is difficult to ascertain the motives of any person, whatever they may swear to, hence the stricter training requirements, which serve to dissuade the half-hearted and the opportunistic.

Whatever you may think of the legitimacy of Obama's presidency, this particular major does not have a case in any circumstance, nor do many like him. War is an ugly business to be sure, but that does not excuse a soldier from his obligation to conduct himself properly when duty requires it.

[Neptunus Rex]

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/obama_youth_04.jpg

add some text

I got the hope.

YOU get the change!

[Tchocky]

there has always been political and monetary connections with the saudis.

but in this case, we have a saudi prince saying "we want Obama in the white house... pay whatever price necessary to put him there" and then making it so.

i wonder how much DIRECT cash towards campaign finance came from nations that are our enemies.

it is the most masterful infiltration of American government in history.

want to hurt someone - hit em in the wallet...

Mission objective one of the Saudi Agent in the white house - destroy the economy.

Mission objective one - accomplished

Have you anything at all to back this up with?

[Max2147]

Have you anything at all to back this up with?
E-mail chains! The new substitute for facts!

[GoldenRivet]

Have you anything at all to back this up with?

this is strictly opinion... it will remain so until proven to be fact.:salute:

[Max2147]

Honestly, I don't understand this continued insistence that Obama is not a U.S. citizen. Is it possible? Maybe. Is it even remotely probable? No.

Closet communists though they may be, I seriously doubt that the Democratic Party would, at any level, knowingly endorse a non-US citizen because he was being bankrolled by the Saudis or OPEC or anybody else for that matter. I mean, why even bother? It would be a ludicrously dangerous move in the political sense, and it isn't as if there's a shortage of muslim orators and politicians with anti-American agendas who were actually born in the U.S. What on God's green earth could the Dems possibly have to gain from installing such a man in office?
I think this whole thing is exactly what it appears to be, and nothing more. Obama may be a socialist weasel, but he's not part of some vast conspiracy to.....whatever.......:-?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm going to point out the truly outrageous thing here; A U.S. military officer shirking his duty in time of war, displaying cowardice, and undermining the Commander-in-Chief and the entire chain of command. Last time I checked, that was treason, and it doesn't matter if he thinks the CinC is legitimate or not. This man has had plenty of time to resign his commission and seek administrative seperation, which he evidently did not.

I think cases like this are a sad commentary on the state of the U.S. military in general. Imo, it is high time we reformed the military's manpower base and recruiting doctrine into something more befitting a professional soldiery. Ours can hardly be an armed force characterized by "consummate professionalism" when it is comprised in part of ASVAB waivers, criminal background waivers, would-be community college alumni, and politicians in uniform.

The U.S. military is an all-volunteer force, and because of that it is more professional and competent than conscription-based militaries, but we need to take the next logical step and create an all-professional force.
We do not need more troops so much as we need troops who are better qualified and equipped for modern high and low-intensity theatres of operation. We have spent too much time already fighting the last war with the last army. The wars of the present and the future demand more specialized and qualified combat professionals. Our dogmatic insistence upon attempting to match the enemy man for man may work sometimes, but it is a costly endeavour in terms of lives on both sides. The chicken**** major in the OP may not concern some people, but that jackass could easily get a whole platoon killed or cause a civilian massacre because he is a coward. Men and women like him should never even be given the opportunity to serve.

My feeling is that the U.S. military needs much stricter entry requirements and training, and a pay-scale befitting those requirements. Other incentives, like money for college, are fine so long as the beneficiaries understand that they are in a system where they are soldiers first and students second. Above all, they need to understand that they are sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States even at the cost of their lives, and they need to be willing to accept that responsibility at all times. Of course, it is difficult to ascertain the motives of any person, whatever they may swear to, hence the stricter training requirements, which serve to dissuade the half-hearted and the opportunistic.

Whatever you may think of the legitimacy of Obama's presidency, this particular major does not have a case in any circumstance, nor do many like him. War is an ugly business to be sure, but that does not excuse a soldier from his obligation to conduct himself properly when duty requires it.
A tip of the hat to you for a very fine post! :salute:

[CastleBravo]

Why is Mr. Obama fighting the release of documents in court? Confusing, ain't it?

[Tchocky]

Why is Mr. Obama fighting the release of documents in court? Confusing, ain't it?
Is he? Link?

[GoldenRivet]

Why is Mr. Obama fighting the release of documents in court? Confusing, ain't it?

usually when one does this it means there is something to hide.

I feel that he probably listed Nigeria or some other place as his place of birth on some official document.

personally, i dont know what to think of the citizenship issue... i feel that if official records have been shown that he is a US Citizen then it is not even worth discussion... however, the man has something major to hide.

[Platapus]

I would like to see Cook's bio to see if he pulled crap like before.

For all I know, Cook may just be a coward who peed his pants when he got orders to a combat zone

We had this happen during the first gulf war too. 99.99% of Reservists honourably served their country but there were a few who just wanted the perks of reserve duty but none of the responsibility. We saw some pretty imaginative excuses, including claims that the first gulf war was also illegal.

[Max2147]

Why is Mr. Obama fighting the release of documents in court? Confusing, ain't it?
There's a difference between a court throwing out the case and Obama fighting it.

[CastleBravo]

There's a difference between a court throwing out the case and Obama fighting it.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars suppressing the issue. This time a judge is willing to hear the case. Nothing to fear, Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii.

[Max2147]

Hundreds of thousands of dollars suppressing the issue. This time a judge is willing to hear the case. Nothing to fear, Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii.
Tchocky already asked you for a link. You haven't provided one. What are you hiding? You must have something to hide - you haven't given us what we wanted immediately!

And even if you provide a link, we'll say it's not good enough and demand you provide a more credible and comprehensive link. You'll get tired of the issue and move on to more important things, but we'll stay here and insist that you have no credibility until you supply us with that link we're demanding.

Actually, that's sort of fun. I can see why you conspiracy theory wonks get off on this so much.

[CastleBravo]

Tchocky already asked you for a link. You haven't provided one. What are you hiding? You must have something to hide - you haven't given us what we wanted immediately!

And even if you provide a link, we'll say it's not good enough and demand you provide a more credible and comprehensive link. You'll get tired of the issue and move on to more important things, but we'll stay here and insist that you have no credibility until you supply us with that link we're demanding.

Actually, that's sort of fun. I can see why you conspiracy theory wonks get off on this so much.

I don't think it is up to me to prove anything with any link. Seems to be a staight forward question.

Release the documents. I think a POTUS can do that., no?

Hundreds of thousands of dollars suppressing the issue. This time a judge is willing to hear the case. Nothing to fear, Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii.

[geetrue]

It use to be a rule ... if you have a thought you have a thought,
but if you have news you have a link :yep:

[Tribesman]

Hundreds of thousands of dollars suppressing the issueAccording to conspiracy nuts

[CastleBravo]

Release the documents. I think a POTUS can do that., no?

[Max2147]

I don't think it is up to me to prove anything with any link. Seems to be a staight forward question.

Release the documents. I think a POTUS can do that., no?

Hundreds of thousands of dollars suppressing the issue. This time a judge is willing to hear the case. Nothing to fear, Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii.
We were asking for a link for your "hundreds of thousands of dollars" claim.

[SteamWake]

LOL your talking about a guy who got the media to not mention his middle name. :O:

[CastleBravo]

Release the documents. I think a POTUS can do that., is that too much to ask?

[razark]

Release the documents. I think a POTUS can do that., is that too much to ask?

You keep saying that, and asserting the "fact" that Obama has spent large amounts of money to hide something.

Please, can you point me to a link that can tell me more about this? Can you point me to a link that will show that the document released already is not the correct document needed?

Because, if you continue to repeat it, and are unable to back up your claim with evidence, I must assume that you are either not being truthful, or have accepted someone else's claims without that source being able to back them up.

Razark

[Max2147]

LOL your talking about a guy who got the media to not mention his middle name. :O:
What other President has been referred to with his middle name? Some used their middle initial, but I can't think of many who were routinely referred to with their middle name.

[August]

What other President has been referred to with his middle name? Some used their middle initial, but I can't think of many who were routinely referred to with their middle name.

Not that I believe in the theory but the media talking heads must have referred to "George Herbert Walker Bush" at least a billion times during the past 8 years... Come to think of it Clinton had his share of "William Jefferson's too.

[CastleBravo]

You keep saying that, and asserting the "fact" that Obama has spent large amounts of money to hide something.

Please, can you point me to a link that can tell me more about this? Can you point me to a link that will show that the document released already is not the correct document needed?

Because, if you continue to repeat it, and are unable to back up your claim with evidence, I must assume that you are either not being truthful, or have accepted someone else's claims without that source being able to back them up.

Razark

Beyond the fact that POTUS should release all his documents, I can think of no other reason to ask for original documents. Why don't you think that?

[mookiemookie]

Not that I believe in the theory but the media talking heads must have referred to "George Herbert Walker Bush" at least a billion times during the past 8 years... Come to think of it Clinton had his share of "William Jefferson's too.

Possibly because they were trying to differentiate him from his son who shared the same name.

The only reason the wingnuts constantly use Obama's middle name is to reinforce the xenophobic "oh my god he's got a brown person name!" anti-Muslim sentiment.

[GoldenRivet]

why does his name being a "brown persons name" have anything to do with it?

Several US Presidents have had their middle names used.

stop being so sensitive.

America is slowly realizing that they made a very poor choice in their president.

should be interesting to see where this goes.

i think if you had told me in 2007 that there would be someone with the name "Hussein" in the white house in 2009 would have run your ass out of town with laughter and rotten fruit.

i think just about 98% of Americans would have too.

its amazing how things change over such a short time.

its as if you would go back in time to the date that Roosevelt died... only to be replaced by someone named "Hirohito".

makes about as much sense. :doh:

[August]

Possibly because they were trying to differentiate him from his son who shared the same name.

The only reason the wingnuts constantly use Obama's middle name is to reinforce the xenophobic "oh my god he's got a brown person name!" anti-Muslim sentiment.

Yeah right Mookie. Clintons people stole all the Ws off the White House keyboards when they left just to differentiate father from son. I'm sure the Moonbats didn't really mean to cause all the media attention that resulted from it.

Max asked for an example of who else was routinely referred to by their middle names and I provided two used by the main stream media.

I did not talk about motivation.

But since you bring it up, paybacks a bitch ain't it? Especially when your man has the same name as the murderous dictator we recently deposed. At least it's not as bad as "Bush-hitler"...

[razark]

Beyond the fact that POTUS should release all his documents, I can think of no other reason to ask for original documents. Why don't you think that?

So, you support the previous president releasing all the documents he was asked for by assorted people over the eight years he was in office?

If not, why is this president any different?

Chances are that you will not answer this question, and if you do it will be in a vauge manner and then go back to the broken record you have been going on with this whole thread.

Can someone provide any link to a news story covering Obama's cover-up of his birth certificate, the amount of money he has spent in this process, and why the released document does not apply?

As for Obama releasing the records, he has released what is needed, it has passed scrutiny, and the world shall move on, except for those looking for any reason to discredit him.

If you want to discredit the man, attack his policies and his decisions. Back up your attacks with _why_ they are wrong. His name, his ethnicity, his birth... these are not valid attacks. Either show why he is wrong, or leave it be. By constantly harping on the same thing without being able to support your position, you just come off looking like a nutcase.

Razark

[GoldenRivet]

Max asked for an example of who else was routinely referred to by their middle names and I provided two used by the main stream media.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt

George W. Bush

George Herbert Walker Bush

William Jefferson Clinton

Lyndon Baines Johnson

Richard Milhous Nixon

just to name a few who regularly had middle names (or initials) used in media.

[HunterICX]

Am I the only one thinking that Major is a selfish bastard as he thinks ''HE'' shouldn't have to go?

HunterICX

[TheSatyr]

Obama is NOT a US Citizen. He is an Indonesian citizen who used an Indonesian passport up to the late 90s early 2000s. His mother renounced both her and Obama's US citizenship when she moved to Indonesia. The only way Obama could get into the schools he went to in Indonesia was by being an Indonesian citizen. There is absolutely no proof that he ever in fact regained US citizenship,and even if he did,I would think that renouncing your citizenship would disqualify you. And if he has dual citizenship,than that would disqualify him as well.

An FBI agent was asked if the FBI vetted Presidential candidates. While he gave the answer anonymously,the answer was very telling. He stated that it was up to the DNC and RNC to vett their candidates. No agency in the Federal Government checks to see if a candidate is a US citizen.

IF Obama was born in Kenya that would disqualify him as President regardless of whether his mother was a US citizen or not. To be President,you have to be born on US soil,which includes military bases. And their are no military bases in Kenya.

Personally,I think the whole Kenya thing is a red herring thrown out there to get people to look in the wrong direction. We should be looking at the Indonesian part of Obama's life.

Frankly,I think that's why he's trying to push through his agenda as quickly as he is. He is looking over his shoulder knowing that he could get removed as soon as the truth comes to light.

[Tchocky]

Wow!

Anything to back this up with?

Because that would be interesting to see.

[Tribesman]

You keep saying that, and asserting the "fact" that Obama has spent large amounts of money to hide something.

Please, can you point me to a link that can tell me more about this?
It is a story purported to be a claim by the United States Justice Foundation that the Obama campaign spent $950,000 on legal fees to hide records.
The only problem there seems to be that the Foundation has never made any such claim and have gone on record to say it is a hoax story .

Whodathunkit eh?
Whats really funny is that much of this conspiracy drivel that some are touting here as "fact" originates from a hoax chain e-mail from April 1st.
Its amazing that all these months later they don't realise it was fake.

[mookiemookie]

Especially when your man has the same name as the murderous dictator we recently deposed.

So what? Do you hold something against every Ted, Charlie and Jeffrey and John because they *gasp!* share the same name as a famous serial killer? :roll:

[August]

So what? Do you hold something against every Ted, Charlie and Jeffrey and John because they *gasp!* share the same name as a famous serial killer? :roll:

Put your partisan fangs away mookie. I didn't say I held anything against him, I just said he's a ripe target in that regard.

As for your Ted, Charlie, Jeffrey and John example: "Hussein" is no where near as common in this country as those names. How about a middle name of "Adolph"? or "Pol Pot" instead? Can you see the difference from behind those democrat covered glasses you wear?

[SteamWake]

What other President has been referred to with his middle name? Some used their middle initial, but I can't think of many who were routinely referred to with their middle name.

Honestly... just about all of them at offical functions and their 'full name' is on legal documents.

Furthermore certanly they did not go out of their way to make sure no one uses their middle name.

Its semantics of course but indicative of a bigger picture.

[Max2147]

Official functions, yes, everybody uses their middle name. Obama used Hussein at the inauguration.

But the initial accusation was that Obama had gotten the mainstream media to not use his middle name. My point was that in everyday news coverage, Presidents are almost never referred to with their middle name. Middle initials are somewhat common, or all three initials (FDR, JFK, LBJ), but I don't recall any who were routinely referred to with their middle name. I didn't even know Clinton's middle name until the impeachment stuff.

And as I suspected, the claim that Obama is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep his birth certificate secret came from.... chain e-mails! I'll bet that the same is true for the new gem that he's an Indonesian citizen. Here's a tip - if you read something in a chain e-mail, IT'S NOT TRUE!

[AVGWarhawk]

Apparently the soldiers order have been revolked. :hmmm:

http://theliberaldemocrat.com/?p=2029



A U.S. Army Reserve major from Florida scheduled to report for deployment to Afghanistan within days has had his military orders revoked after arguing he should not be required to serve under a president who has not proven his eligibility for office.
His attorney, Orly Taitz, confirmed to WND the military has rescinded his impending deployment orders.

Interesting turn of events.

[SteamWake]

Official functions, yes, everybody uses their middle name. Obama used Hussein at the inauguration.

But the initial accusation was that Obama had gotten the mainstream media to not use his middle name. My point was that in everyday news coverage, Presidents are almost never referred to with their middle name. Middle initials are somewhat common, or all three initials (FDR, JFK, LBJ), but I don't recall any who were routinely referred to with their middle name. I didn't even know Clinton's middle name until the impeachment stuff.

And as I suspected, the claim that Obama is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep his birth certificate secret came from.... chain e-mails! I'll bet that the same is true for the new gem that he's an Indonesian citizen. Here's a tip - if you read something in a chain e-mail, IT'S NOT TRUE!


Whats a chain email? I dont know I dont get them I have a decent spam filter.

The point I am making about Obama having his middle name suppressed during the race is simply that it was sucessfully suppressed.

If a jornulaist or talk show host showed the bad taste of metioning his full name they would be chastised and threatened with 'legal' action.

But when it came time to 'negotiate' with the middle east he was all proud of if.

Again to me its not a big deal, as is his dubious citizenship, but put that with his past associations, action committies, church, relationships and on and on it starts to complete a puzzle.

Simply stated Obama is not whom he portrays he is. He ran as a centrist conservative and is nothing of the sort.

[Tchocky]

Who was threatened with legal action?

[AVGWarhawk]

The point I am making about Obama having his middle name suppressed during the race is simply that it was sucessfully suppressed.



True.

[Tribesman]

Who was threatened with legal action?
Some wingnut who is stuck down the rabbit-hole in an alternative reality.

[SteamWake]

Some wingnut who is stuck down the rabbit-hole in an alternative reality.

Limbaugh and Beck to name two so your half right :rotfl:

[Max2147]

Limbaugh and Beck to name two so your half right :rotfl:
Link? I'm getting rather tired of the unsubstantiated claims in this thread.

As far as Obama not being who he says he is, I agree with that statement, but for completely opposite reasons. I actually think he portrayed himself as a liberal, but he's more pragmatic than people think. He's not one of those bleeding heart, save the world types. But that's another argument for another time.

[Max2147]

The point I am making about Obama having his middle name suppressed during the race is simply that it was sucessfully suppressed.
And my point was that there was nothing to suppress, because it wasn't something the media was going to talk about anyways. They didn't talk about McCain's middle name either (I actually don't know what it is).

It's like saying that Obama prevented the media from saying he's left-handed. Yes the media didn't talk about it, but not because Obama told them not to.

[SteamWake]

You know your not going to find links I'm just a wacko nut job that makes this crap up. Even though those guys talked about it on the air.

Ill look and see what I can find but yea sure I make all this up. :doh:

[Max2147]

I'm not saying you made it up, I'm saying you believe somebody who made it up.

[SteamWake]

Here is an interesting read from the Clinton News Network



http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/28/tennessee.gop/index.html

[Tribesman]

Here is an interesting read from the Clinton News Network

So the Rebublicans stopped using the middle name as they considered it a distraction but that media source uses it without any legal threats at all .
Well done SteamWake, you make it too easy.

[geetrue]

And as I suspected, the claim that Obama is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep his birth certificate secret came from.... chain e-mails! I'll bet that the same is true for the new gem that he's an Indonesian citizen. Here's a tip - if you read something in a chain e-mail, IT'S NOT TRUE!

Now I remember where I read that information ... the same place I get all of my anti-BHO news. It was a chain email ... I'll be more careful what I read or what i believe or especially what I pass on.

I was too busy and too uninvolved to check this one out about how much BHO had spent on the cover up.

I do have on record, back in January, however a prophecy that BHO is going to take a nose dive ... those weren't the exact words just the meaning.

I didn't really understand the prophecy till just recently ...

"The Clintons are still in charge" were the exact words and then the Lord said,

"This will be the downfall of Obama"

If there is a smoking gun then Mrs Clinton is in the best position to reveal this unto us ...

BHO's time line to the white house is still in question ... I for one will concede to the birth certificate even though these things can be purchased and inserted into the paper by professionals that do this for a living (especially in 1961) (I was still in highschool when Obama was born)

Are we allowed to think without a link?

I think Obama is not, I say is not going to finish his term as the 44th President of the United States and that Vice President Joe Biden is going to become more and more important than what we all thought was important during the election.

[ETR3(SS)]

You know I've been reading this thread since it started. I watched it turn from a thread about a US Army officer refusing to deploy to a thread about Obama's birth credentials. But I think the real issue here isn't limited to just the Democrats, it's a plague that infects American politics. This plague is a lack of honesty, integrity, and a little bit of playground antics. And the American public is just as guilty and infected. The public has been infected with apathy. People don't care about what's going on with their country anymore. And with people in this state of mind they go out and vote not knowing the issues at hand? That disgusts me. :nope: I see this thread and I think to myself, regardless of the truth of these accusations, at least someone is trying to dig a little deeper! But with the media itself buying into this partisan BS, it's really hard to get the facts with out Fox News putting their spin on it or NBC or ABC or CBS, hell even the newspapers. I applaud those that wade through the rumors to seek the truth whatever it maybe, I don't care if they are Republican, Democrat, or neither. It is our duty as American citizens to find the truth and shed light on it for all to see. It's like the old saying goes "the truth hurts" and that's why people don't seek it out. The American public is afraid to face their own mistakes. As an American and a veteran I feel that I have only preserved this system of lies instead of the system our forefathers created for us.

[Max2147]

You know I've been reading this thread since it started. I watched it turn from a thread about a US Army officer refusing to deploy to a thread about Obama's birth credentials. But I think the real issue here isn't limited to just the Democrats, it's a plague that infects American politics. This plague is a lack of honesty, integrity, and a little bit of playground antics. And the American public is just as guilty and infected. The public has been infected with apathy. People don't care about what's going on with their country anymore. And with people in this state of mind they go out and vote not knowing the issues at hand? That disgusts me. :nope: I see this thread and I think to myself, regardless of the truth of these accusations, at least someone is trying to dig a little deeper! But with the media itself buying into this partisan BS, it's really hard to get the facts with out Fox News putting their spin on it or NBC or ABC or CBS, hell even the newspapers. I applaud those that wade through the rumors to seek the truth whatever it maybe, I don't care if they are Republican, Democrat, or neither. It is our duty as American citizens to find the truth and shed light on it for all to see. It's like the old saying goes "the truth hurts" and that's why people don't seek it out. The American public is afraid to face their own mistakes. As an American and a veteran I feel that I have only preserved this system of lies instead of the system our forefathers created for us.
I agree with almost everything you say. The American public needs to be more engaged and more informed about what's going on. I think too many people on both sides of the spectrum support/oppose ideas purely based on who came up with them, not based on the quality of the idea itself. They also base their opinions of people on the letter after their name, not the person's views. Both those things are very bad for our democracy.

But in this particular case, I think the real problem is that people are refusing to believe the truth, even when it's presented to them. The document that Obama released is, to quote the woman from the Hawaii Department of Health, "a valid Hawaii state birth certificate."

As you said, it's good that people dig deeper. In this case, Obama released that document, people did the digging by calling up the Hawaii authorities, and found the truth - that Obama's document is a valid birth certificate.

So now that the truth has been found, why is it still an issue? Because some people, for whatever reason, refuse to believe the truth. They present "facts" to back up their doubts, but when you examine their "facts" you find that they're just lies that somebody made up.

So in other words, digging to find the truth is great. But refusing to acknowledge the truth once you've found it, and making up fake "facts" to make your refusal seem vaid, is harmful at best.

I'm not saying that everybody who thinks Obama isn't a natural born citizen is a liar. Most of the folks who believe that are only guilty of unknowingly accepting lies at face value, not inventing the lies themselves.

[SteamWake]

I agree with almost everything you say. The American public needs to be more engaged and more informed about what's going on. .

Dont you get it? Most are more concearned with Michal Jacksons death... at least at the moment.

It will take some time before things really start to hit home. In the meantime un-employment compensation, food stamps, and other welfare programs will get them by. That is till that begins to run out.

[Max2147]

Dont you get it? Most are more concearned with Michal Jacksons death... at least at the moment.

It will take some time before things really start to hit home. In the meantime un-employment compensation, food stamps, and other welfare programs will get them by. That is till that begins to run out.
Like I said, the American public needs to be more informed and engaged. I don't see what you're disagreeing with.

I personally don't think that Obama's programs will lead to what you described, but that's a different discussion altogether.

[SteamWake]

So the Rebublicans stopped using the middle name as they considered it a distraction but that media source uses it without any legal threats at all .
Well done SteamWake, you make it too easy.

Or the media makes it... well ... confusing.

They absolutly hammered McCain and others for using his middle name. The RNC knee jerked and dident want to offend anyone and put the word out to NOT use his middle name :doh:

But hey its just a name. There are more important issues to focus on here.

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzMwZTE5YzlkOGI3ZDEwNzQwODhiYzQzZTJhM2RiNmY

[Tribesman]

Or references to his middle name “Hussein.” Take a look at Team Obama's response (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/mccain-repudiates-hussein-obama-remarks/) when John McCain denounced Bill Cunningham.

And what did McCain denounce Cunningham for?
Was it for using the middle name or just for talking rubbish?
The whole episode concerning McCains approach was to stop the nonsense and focus on the issues , the nonsense was good for the wingnut fringe but they already had their vote anyway .
They didn't need to campaign to get the wingnut vote they had to focus on real issues to convince ordinary voters.

[Max2147]

McCain denounced the rubbish because that was the right thing to do, and McCain is an honorable man.

For all the cr*p that went on during the last election, I thought both candidates were very respectful towards each other. McCain stood up and spoke the truth to that stupid woman at his down hall meeting who was blathering on about how Obama was a Muslim Arab, and Obama made it very clear that McCain's age and Palin's family were areas that his campaign wasn't going to touch. Unfortunately, both candidates had supporters who weren't so honorable.

[Platapus]

One 20th century President never used his middle name.

Harry S Truman. :D

[Stealth Hunter]

One 20th century President never used his middle name.

Harry S Truman. :D

A "true man" indeed.:D

[Subnuts]

One 20th century President never used his middle name.

Harry S Truman. :D

That's because his middle name was Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

[Zachstar]

Oh my geez even on this forum there are idiot birthers? Geez you guys serious need a life outside of tea parties.

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh my geez even on this forum there are idiot birthers? Geez you guys serious need a life outside of tea parties.

But my daughters like tea parties:O:

[Max2147]

One 20th century President never used his middle name.

Harry S Truman. :D
Nah, Truman used his full middle name all the time! In fact, he's the only President I can think of who was routinely referred to with his full middle name.

[August]

As you said, it's good that people dig deeper. In this case, Obama released that document, people did the digging by calling up the Hawaii authorities, and found the truth - that Obama's document is a valid birth certificate.

Yes it is a valid birth certificate. but it is not the original birth certificate. It is a replacement document made within the last few years which was passed off as the original document. That is imo what keeps the controversy alive, not

Now I personally think the whole issue is just a distraction from Obamas true faults, but a photocopy of the original document would put this whole issue to bed and embarrass the Republicans in one fell swoop.

One has to wonder why the Dems don't take advantage of such a huge opportunity to score points against their political opposition.

[SUBMAN1]

He has a point. Personally, I'm not satisfied with the paperwork produced showing citizenship of Obama. I believe I'm not alone. :hmmm:

You aren't. Even the Supreme court asked for it and he weaseled his way out of that one somehow. Talk about brushing it under the rug!

-S

[Max2147]

You aren't. Even the Supreme court asked for it and he weaseled his way out of that one somehow. Talk about brushing it under the rug!

-S
And when did the Supreme Court do that?

[Max2147]

Yes it is a valid birth certificate. but it is not the original birth certificate. It is a replacement document made within the last few years which was passed off as the original document. That is imo what keeps the controversy alive, not

Now I personally think the whole issue is just a distraction from Obamas true faults, but a photocopy of the original document would put this whole issue to bed and embarrass the Republicans in one fell swoop.

One has to wonder why the Dems don't take advantage of such a huge opportunity to score points against their political opposition.
They can't really embarrass the Republicans on this one because the Republicans aren't talking about it. I'm not aware of any prominent Republican officials who have said that Obama is not a natural-born citizen.

[Tribesman]

And when did the Supreme Court do that?
At the mad hatters tea party.

[Aramike]

They can't really embarrass the Republicans on this one because the Republicans aren't talking about it. I'm not aware of any prominent Republican officials who have said that Obama is not a natural-born citizen.That's true, but I think August was referring to the more extreme Republicans. Considering that both parties have a propensity to characterize the opposition essentially as bloated caricatures of the extremes, I also find it odd that Obama doesn't just come out and settle the issue.

That being said, although I do believe that it is a non-issue I'm not surprised that it's come up time and again. It reminds me of the way the fringe lefties grabbed on to Dan Rather's story about Bush and the National Guard.

[SteamWake]

At the mad hatters tea party.

Points at Tribesman's avatar and laughs :haha:

Yea I know itll change soon but got to get it while the getting is good. :rock:

[CastleBravo]

I guess this was going to be a little too close for comfort. Phone calls were made and now the colonel no longer has standing to view Mr. Obama's rcords. The things which make you say Hmmmmmmmmmm.



"Can you imagine what are the consequences? This is disastrous" for the administration, she said. "We'll have no military. Because anytime any Soldier, any Sailor, any Airman does not want to follow any orders, all he has to do is call an attorney and say 'I don't want to follow this order because I question the legitimacy of the commander in chief.' "


http://www.military.com/news/article/anti-obama-gis-afghan-orders-revoked.html?col=1186032310810

[Max2147]

Which colonel are you talking about? The only colonel I see in that article is the Army spokeswoman. That quote came from the walking ego (i.e. lawyer) that the shirker is using.

[CastleBravo]

Which colonel are you talking about? The only colonel I see in that article is the Army spokeswoman. That quote came from the walking ego (i.e. lawyer) that the shirker is using.

My mistake, the major who brought the complaint. But you knew what I meant, no? Its the precedent which matters here, and of course mr. Obama's continued suppression of documents.