anyone electrically savvy?

[GoldenRivet]

ill try to make a long story short.

as some of you know, im a flight instructor... in one of the hottest climates in the United States.

As a majority of general aviation aircraft are not air conditioned i had an idea...

grab one of these things... http://www.kooleraire.com/

it plugs into the cigarette lighter in the car and they work pretty good, i have a friend who keeps his truck cool on work sites with it when the truck will be parked unattended for long periods of times and he demonstrated it to me - it does make a difference.

mind you its not like having a full fledged air conditioner running, but anyone who has left their car or truck parked at a store for an hour or so in the summer sun knows that their car quickly turns into an oven.

when he demonstrated this thing to me his car had been parked for an hour and he left the kooleraire running the whole time - when we entered the vehicle, the truck seemed as if it had only been parked in the direct summer sunlight for a few minutes... there was a notable temperature difference.

at any rate, i would like to put one of these in the baggage compartment behind the seat on my Cessna 150. there is plenty of room for it and i think it will work great at keeping the relatively small cockpit cool during training flights.

the question is:

my cigarette lighter in the airplane is decommissioned - and even if it worked the unit's plug wouldn't reach the cigarette lighter anyhow.

so..... :hmmm:

would it be possible to take one of these

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/sla-1270.jpg

and somehow wire it to one of these...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/315BB72Z5DL._SL500_AA250_.jpg

and perhaps build some sort of enclosure to contain it so that the KoolerAire unit could plug into the aforementioned homebuilt battery pack?

or does such a device already exist and can be store bought ?

:06:

anyone who knows about electrical stuff - help a brother out :D

[Letum]

Most cigar lighter receptacles run at 12vDC and so does that battery IIRC.
So yes, you can just cut the wire and hook it up to the battery.

[CaptainHaplo]

Unfortunately - 12 volts isnt the only concern.

The problem isn't voltage in reality - its amps. A normal aircraft cig plug is rated at 3 amps. I looked on the page and could not find a amperage rating for the device. Before you go ordering one and trying to do a battery pack, check the specs and find out what amperage the cooler requires.

What you want to do is match the amps and volts both to the device, that way your getting maximum life out of the battery and little chance of overamping the device.

Also - you need to look into a charging unit of some type if you go this route.

I assume your having major maintenance done by a A&P licensed mechanic. If so, talk to him about putting an additional plug near what will become the "storage" area so you can just plug it in. If the existing plug is out due to a fault in the plug, no biggie, but if its an electrical problem elsewhere - that really needs to get looked into anyway. Adding a plug wouldnt be that difficult, provided there is room for the modification (wiring under the floor). If regs prohibit an under the floor mod - you can alway correct the problem with the existing plug - and move it (wires under the carpetting) to the rear of the cabin - depending on the plane.

[Spoon 11th]

I googled it uses only 390 milliamps of power. With that battery shown in your picture (7 Ah). If we assume that 7 Ah is for 10 hours average usage that's 700 milliamps per hour for 10 hours. Since this KoolerAire device only uses 390 milliamps you should get at least 20 hours of continuous usage. Hope this makes sense.

[Letum]

I wouldn't worry about the amperage too much. Anything the lighter socket
can handle, the battery will be able to take for at least 4 hours and
probably a lot more.
I would imagine that the cooler unit is quite voltage tolerant as well.

[SteamWake]

That little fan wont draw much currrent and will probably run on that gell cell for a number of hours.

The connection is easy Only two wires if you hook it up backwards the fan will run backwards so jsut flip flop the wires.

The only precation you need is a fuse in the circuit and make sure the battery doesent flop about and short itself out. Ill do a little drawing and post it up here later.

[GoldenRivet]

thanks for the replies.

the fan is fuse protected... im trying to do as much research as possible before doing or buying anything.:up:

i could get the cigarette plug re-commissioned (its just disconnected basically no faults etc) however... im not sure about the "legality" of moving it to another location. :hmmm:

thanks again guys

[SteamWake]

The only other catch may be electrical 'noise' from the motor interferring with the radio.

But since its a DC motor and probably brushless it should not be an issue.

I dont know what the FAA would have to say.

[GoldenRivet]

The only other catch may be electrical 'noise' from the motor interferring with the radio.

Tried my friends in a Piper Cherokee, it worked fine and no interference noticed at all.

I dont know what the FAA would have to say.

i would hope nothing much at all... since im not modifying the airplane itself. :hmmm:

[geetrue]

Can't you just open a window :woot:

Just kidding that probably only works on DC-3's to see how to take off, but if you smell smoke put her down.

Personally I would not trust a jury rig on any plane, RV, truck, bus or boat is fine, but a plane???

[GoldenRivet]

Can't you just open a window :woot:

Just kidding that probably only works on DC-3's to see how to take off, but if you smell smoke put her down.

Personally I would not trust a jury rig on any plane, RV, truck, bus or boat is fine, but a plane???

its not jury rigged... it has an on off switch and is easily disconnected from the battery. plus it is easily in arms reach if anything goes wrong.

i found a female end cigarette plug adapter with positive negative "clips" on the end that you could hook to a 12 volt battery of the same amperage rating... plus the whole device is fuse protected on the device side of electrical flow.

the purpose of the device (more or less) is to keep the cabin temp of the aircraft down while it is parked on the hot ramp.

I saw some creative soul the other day had taken a small 5200 BTU window unit air conditioner, he bolted it to a small tool cart, duct taped flexible dryer hose to the vents and ran it into the plane. the unit was powered by extension cord.

he said it kept his cabin temp down into the low 70s so that when he was ready to depart, all he had to do was roll the cart back into the hangar and unplug it. :up:

expensive though.

opening a window works fine for moving air around, but you dont move much air around while parked or while taxiing - considering you are only going 10 - 15 mph on the ground.

its nice to fly up at 6,500 feet or more in the summer where the air is in the hi 60s or low 70s - open a window up there and you will get cool in a hurry... but during parking, taxiing and climbing your down in a 110 degree heat index :nope:

[MothBalls]

You might try one of these.

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=12259

If that's not in your budget, try this and a cooler.

http://www.roshgo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=rc01/CTGY/00408

[GoldenRivet]

thanks man...

You clearly didn't read the first post since you linked me to the very thing I'm talking about

LOL

[geetrue]

Did you see this GR? I didn't want to start a whole thread on it ...

Can you imagine the smell?

http://www.idahostatesman.com/businessnews/story/833497.html (http://www.idahostatesman.com/businessnews/story/833497.html)

On Tuesday, the first flight for the husband-and-wife team's Pet Airways, the first-ever all-pet airline, took off from Republic Airport in Farmingdale, N.Y.

http://media.idahostatesman.com/smedia/2009/07/14/14/Airlines_Pet_Airways.sff.standalone.prod_affiliate .36.jpg

[SteamWake]

Whos gonna pay for that goggies carbon paw print :rotfl:

[August]

I'd go for a solar powered unit as you only really need cooling when the sun is shining.

Here's one example but I am sure there are others:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/solarpowered_ca.php

http://i.treehugger.com/files/th_images/solarcarvent.jpg

[August]

Actually here's one designed for small aircraft. A bit more expensive though.

http://www.planeplastics.com/accessories/solarSkies

http://www.planeplastics.com/images/solar_fan_Big.gif

[SteamWake]

I'd go for a solar powered unit as you only really need cooling when the sun is shining.

Here's one example but I am sure there are others:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/solarpowered_ca.php

http://i.treehugger.com/files/th_images/solarcarvent.jpg


Ive talked with a couple of professional mechanical engineers about this type of gizmo and they have a concensous.

There is no way in hell that these fans can move enough air to overcome the heat gain.

The thing GR is talking about is different and uses a very old technigue not just trying to move hot air.

[August]

Ive talked with a couple of professional mechanical engineers about this type of gizmo and they have a concensous.

There is no way in hell that these fans can move enough air to overcome the heat gain.

The thing GR is talking about is different and uses a very old technigue not just trying to move hot air.

I couldn't find a picture of it but my old Saab had a solar fan built in to it. Unlike the portable jobs I posted this one drew air from underneath the car and expelled it out the top.

Even though it was 1970's technology, it kept the interior as cool as outside even on the hottest summer days and that was sitting for hours out in unshaded parking lots, albiet in New England and not in the Sahara desert.

So I wouldn't dismiss a solar powered solution based on those car window models. A passive system like that has the advantage of always working without need for electrical power or battery.

[SteamWake]

I couldn't find a picture of it but my old Saab had a solar fan built in to it. Unlike the portable jobs I posted this one drew air from underneath the car and expelled it out the top.

Even though it was 1970's technology, it kept the interior as cool as outside even on the hottest summer days and that was sitting for hours out in unshaded parking lots, albiet in New England and not in the Sahara desert.

So I wouldn't dismiss a solar powered solution based on those car window models. A passive system like that has the advantage of always working without need for electrical power or battery.

The way it was explained to me is that the average car has around 300 cubic feet of interior space. Outside air of around 90 degrees, heat rise inside the car is very high in the order of 100 degrees approaching unchecked 190 degrees. In order to keep up with that sort of heat rise you would need an air change of about 2 per minute or approximatly 600 cfm just to keep up. Id be supprised if these little fans even moved 10 cfm. Maybe they move enough to take the edge off but I really think its a bit of placebo effect. Its basically the same as leaving a window cracked open.

Your better off parking in the shade and leaving the windows down. Or putting one of those refletive thingys in the windshield. This will do more to keep latent heat down more than some dinky little fan.

[geetrue]

Is this off topic?

What do you do about electronics left in a car, PDA's, notebooks, digital camera's, MP3, MP4 players???

Wouldn't some of these ideas help that problem.

I've thought of one of those cigar lighter coolers, but then you have condensation to deal with.

This is a true story, a lady did her laundry and put the basket of clothes on the back seat of their car and then joined her husband in a nearby bar for a fast cool one.

While in the bar they hear fire trucks ... it was their car on fire.

The insurance company traced the fire to her padded bra in the laundry basket.

It gets hot in the backseat as many a pet has found out :yep:

[SteamWake]

Sorry Im gonna have to call BS on the burning bra story.

Yea it gets hot in a closed up car, extremely hot even in the 300 degree range but the heat that would be required to cause a bra to burst into flames is in the 1200 degree range :cool:

I dont think even a book of matches left on the dashboard exposed to full summer sun would burst into flames. Although I wouldent try it :D

Again your best bet is to park in the shade, get a window shade, and leave the windows cracked open.

As to leaving your electronic devices in your car the answer is simple.... dont.

[Letum]

The usual cause of parked car fires are NiCad and LiPo batteries.

[Sledgehammer427]

hmmm

you know, getting back on topic, GR, My cigarette lightermajig has been missing from my car since I got it. My dad and I hit up an auto parts store and found a 12 volt socket with all the diagrams and stuff you need to know printed on the back.
if this hasnt been fixed already, it wouldnt take much to wire one of those suckers up to a battery and use some double sided tape

[SteamWake]

hmmm

you know, getting back on topic, GR, My cigarette lightermajig has been missing from my car since I got it. My dad and I hit up an auto parts store and found a 12 volt socket with all the diagrams and stuff you need to know printed on the back.
if this hasnt been fixed already, it wouldnt take much to wire one of those suckers up to a battery and use some double sided tape

Before you go off jury rigging some jackleg electrical connection remember this is an aircraft were talking about. :rock:

[GoldenRivet]

Ok.

here is an update.

We have been experimenting with one of these KoolerAire things in a Piper Cherokee.

The main disadvantages in Aviation use for the kooleraire - a vehicle is shut down in a "cold condition" and has much more insulation than an aircraft.

when you plug this thing into a car cigarette adapter it is keeping cold air cool.

a small single engine aircraft does not have a great deal of insulation, and typically starts its day "heat soaked".

the kooleraire at this point is trying its best to simply keep hot air warm!

it just does NOT have the output capacity to cool the cabin of an aircraft.

there are some modifications being made to the KoolerAir we have access to, im not too optimistic of the potential of the mods being made, but we can always try it.

for now, im not investing any money in one of these things.

the only sure fire way to take a "heat soaked" aircraft cabin and "cold soak" it... is with a portable air conditioner.

the problem with a portable air conditioning system is that it can cost several hundred dollars - perhaps $1000 to produce - and it has to be disconnected and reconnected before and after each flight.

the project continues - we will have to see how the modifications to the unit change the output of cold air :hmmm:

in the mean time, i'll continue to sweat like an overworked whore :haha:

[SteamWake]

Get youreself some of those reflective window shades I always see in parked aircraft. You will be supprised how much difference that can make.

I also got to thinking about your 'decommisioned' cig lighter. Have you checked to see if the fuse hasent simply been pulled?

[GoldenRivet]

spoke briefly to a local mechanic... he said its nothing to hook it back up, the problem is that in the late 70s the feds started requiring a fuse or CB for the cig lighters.

most owners instead of putting in a fuse would just decomission the plug entirely.

he thinks (without lookin) that it is probably the case with mine as i told him i had not seen a fuse for the plug.

the expense will not be plugging it back in, the hassle and expense will be putting in a fuse for it.

depending on how these tests go with the modded KoolerAire in a few days i may not even bother with it.

by the time i got one ordered, shipped and the lighter fixed etc it will be fall already :rotfl:

[August]

Sorry Im gonna have to call BS on the burning bra story.

Yea it gets hot in a closed up car, extremely hot even in the 300 degree range but the heat that would be required to cause a bra to burst into flames is in the 1200 degree range :cool:

Maybe the bras padding composted and it spontaneously combusted? :D

[Buddahaid]

Isn't this a decades old problem? Is there no way to allow the heat accumulation out, a vent, crack the windows? It can't be a theft issue as anyone going to hot-wire an airplane would have all the angles anyway. Reflective shades and cross ventilation should be enough. Hell, if the cabin is too hot, aren't the fuel tanks having vapor problems as well? Just seems this is reinventing the wheel somehow.

Buddahaid

[GoldenRivet]

Isn't this a decades old problem? Is there no way to allow the heat accumulation out, a vent, crack the windows?

Park anything on a Texas Tarmac for any period of time and the internal temperatures quickly get nasty.

cracking a window or vent does no good because there is no air moving.


Hell, if the cabin is too hot, aren't the fuel tanks having vapor problems as well? Just seems this is reinventing the wheel somehow.

not reinventing the wheel - just trying to figure out how to keep cabin temps down while the aircraft is sitting on the ramp.

air conditioning carts are in use today - but they are very very very expensive.

(note the yellow hose)

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/081016-F-5774B-112.jpg

what we are trying to do is find an alternative that is suitable to small GA aircraft.

[SteamWake]

You know window shakers arent all that expensive actually maybe you can jury rig one of those on a cart.

You can get them for under 200 bucks for a little one. Get some flexible duct, duct tape and a little inginuity. Oh and a long extension cord :D