Russia's new nuclear sub completes first round of sea trials

[CastleBravo]

MOSCOW, July 10 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's newest Borey class strategic nuclear submarine, the Yury Dolgoruky, has completed the first round of sea trials and is returning to a shipyard in northern Russia, the Sevmash plant said on Friday.

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20090710/155493140.html

[AVGWarhawk]

Give it time and they will be here:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Q-PuSGjFHvY/SIKAZUYvtlI/AAAAAAAABDk/IwPe5a4X7ug/s640/WhiskeyWrecksBig.jpg

[CastleBravo]

Ouch!

[Oberon]

I wonder how many US and UK subs were shadowing her... :hmmm:

[CastleBravo]

I wonder how many US and UK subs were shadowing her... :hmmm:

We may never know until it sinks, ala Kursk.

[Mush Martin]

you went with that story over Bikini Protest in the Ukraine....what has become of us? :nope:

[Task Force]

Give it time and they will be here:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Q-PuSGjFHvY/SIKAZUYvtlI/AAAAAAAABDk/IwPe5a4X7ug/s640/WhiskeyWrecksBig.jpg
Hey look, its russias sub force... appear to be in the best shape of there life...:rotfl:

[CastleBravo]

you went with that story over Bikini Protest in the Ukraine....what has become of us? :nope:

Missed that one. Too bad, I like Bikini Atoll for personal username reasons.:O:

[ETR3(SS)]

Awfully long boat for only 16 birds. And with a speed of 29kts how much you wanna bet she's got 2 reactors on-board? :hmmm: The released specs on this boat are interesting to say the least. Oh and I wouldn't count Russia's navy out of any races yet. While a good chunk of their fleet is rusting away (that's what you get when you have to build 5 boats to every US 1) they are stepping up their Deterrent Patrols.

[AVGWarhawk]

I like Bikini Atoll for personal username reasons.:O:


That's were SpongeBob lives:O:

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/SpongebobJM.jpg

[Task Force]

Hmm... thats intresting... Maby theyl throw some explosives on his pineapple...:rotfl:

[geetrue]

a crew of 107, including 55 officers


These crew numbers sound a little off over 50% of the crew is officer's???

[CastleBravo]

These crew numbers sound a little off over 50% of the crew is officer's???

Perhaps its a sea trial thing. Or, like the US you can't trust a thing they say about submarines.:hmmm::hmmm:

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Awfully long boat for only 16 birds.

It is around the same length as the Delta IV, also a 16-missile boat. An Ohio crams 24 onto the same length, but it has only one ~35000HP reactor, and is a single hull design.

And with a speed of 29kts how much you wanna bet she's got 2 reactors on-board? :hmmm:

She almost certainly does.

These crew numbers sound a little off over 50% of the crew is officer's???

No, it isn't a joke. It is typical. In addition to those 55 officers, if the boat was actually commissioned as originally scheduled, it would have had something like 30 michmanny (warrant officers). They don't have the latter now because AFAIK they are getting working on getting rid of the michman core. The ship will be only 10-20% of what we may consider "normal enlisted" or conscripts.

The important thing is to get the correct mix of qualification onto the boat, and the Russian Navy uses its officer corps much more for technical matters than say the US.

A positive way of putting it would be that the Russians have more of a single line of authority, rather than a dual line.

The negative (and stereotypical) way of saying the same thing is that they have a weak NCO corps, and this leads to overworked officers, dedvoschina, blah, blah, blah...

[Jimbuna]

Is it just me or do the crew on parade look particularly nervous? :hmmm:

[ETR3(SS)]

It is around the same length as the Delta IV, also a 16-missile boat. An Ohio crams 24 onto the same length, but it has only one ~35000HP reactor, and is a single hull design.Actually an Ohio is 560ft long, a Delta IV is 544ft, and a Typhoon is 562ft and has 20 missile tubes. So at 580ft long, we have a new record holder for longest submarine.

[SUBMAN1]

It is still not as beefy looking as the monstrous Typhoon.

Did that company ever buy that one Typhoon to turn it into an underwater cruise ship?

-S

[geetrue]

It is around the same length as the Delta IV, also a 16-missile boat. An Ohio crams 24 onto the same length, but it has only one ~35000HP reactor, and is a single hull design.



She almost certainly does.



No, it isn't a joke. It is typical. In addition to those 55 officers, if the boat was actually commissioned as originally scheduled, it would have had something like 30 michmanny (warrant officers). They don't have the latter now because AFAIK they are getting working on getting rid of the michman core. The ship will be only 10-20% of what we may consider "normal enlisted" or conscripts.

The important thing is to get the correct mix of qualification onto the boat, and the Russian Navy uses its officer corps much more for technical matters than say the US.

A positive way of putting it would be that the Russians have more of a single line of authority, rather than a dual line.

The negative (and stereotypical) way of saying the same thing is that they have a weak NCO corps, and this leads to overworked officers, dedvoschina, blah, blah, blah...

You sure know a lot ... what else do you know? I've been out of the rotation of classified information for 38 years now, back when I had the inside track on Russian submarines we were led to believe their weak spot was in the chain of supply. If something broke they were not always able to fix it right away. I'm sure they learned how to adapt just like we did with the time tested methods of jury rigging.

Actually an Ohio is 560ft long, a Delta IV is 544ft, and a Typhoon is 562ft and has 20 missile tubes. So at 580ft long, we have a new record holder for longest submarine.

Good eyes their ET ... what does the R stand for?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Actually an Ohio is 560ft long, a Delta IV is 544ft, and a Typhoon is 562ft and has 20 missile tubes. So at 580ft long, we have a new record holder for longest submarine.

Look at the Meters, not the Feet. It is 170m long. Multiply by around 3.3. 510+51=561 feet (a bit less because it is 3.281, not 3.3). If it is the longest it will be by an insignificant margin.

You sure know a lot ... what else do you know? I've been out of the rotation of classified information for 38 years now, back when I had the inside track on Russian submarines we were led to believe their weak spot was in the chain of supply. If something broke they were not always able to fix it right away. I'm sure they learned how to adapt just like we did with the time tested methods of jury rigging.

Actually, everything I've just mentioned is pretty much open source these days. Try The Naval Institute's Guide to the Soviet Navy, Young's 1980s paper on the Storozhevoy (more interesting in these aspects than his 2005 or so book, though the career progression he describes seem to be about the average officer; elite cadets seem to be placed on entirely different tracks). Or just read the Kursk's roster to see what one of their real lists looks like.

As for the part about a weak chain being logistics is almost certainly true, now and in Soviet times. Certainly things like corruption play a role here but the core issue is the sheer difference in the percentage of money placed on the support issues.

Some bad-mouth Gorshkov for this, but I don't really agree. Given the missions he's assigned and the situation he faces, emphasizing on working on new stuff, and building as much of that as funds allow was the way to go. With the tech lag, even an older asset (say a Permit) might be useful for the United States and thus worth maintaining, but a Project 627 Kit of similar vintage? Let it rot. On war day, start it up and see if it can move a little.

[XabbaRus]

Are you sure it is a single hull design? That would be a first for the Russians.

I thought it was double hulled.

The Russians are masters of jury rigging and jerry building to get out of a fix. Hell if you took the corruption out of the supply chain with the increased spending they should be able to fix things and get the parts. The problem is the corruption.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Are you sure it is a single hull design? That would be a first for the Russians.

I thought it was double hulled.

I said the Ohio was single hulled, thus it can cram a bit more into the same external volume.

[ETR3(SS)]

You sure know a lot ... what else do you know? I've been out of the rotation of classified information for 38 years now, back when I had the inside track on Russian submarines we were led to believe their weak spot was in the chain of supply. If something broke they were not always able to fix it right away. I'm sure they learned how to adapt just like we did with the time tested methods of jury rigging.



Good eyes their ET ... what does the R stand for?

R=Radio. The US Navy in its infinite wisdom decided submarine radioman needed to be renamed, hence Electronics Technician Radio. I still put sparks on my command ballcap though.

Look at the Meters, not the Feet. It is 170m long. Multiply by around 3.3. 510+51=561 feet (a bit less because it is 3.281, not 3.3). If it is the longest it will be by an insignificant margin. I'll concede that point. Somebody didn't do their conversion right. But being American I look at feet first and second.

[JHuschke]

Russia and Korea playing with their nuclear toys...what will happen next?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Are you sure it is a single hull design? That would be a first for the Russians.

I thought it was double hulled.

The Russians are masters of jury rigging and jerry building to get out of a fix. Hell if you took the corruption out of the supply chain with the increased spending they should be able to fix things and get the parts. The problem is the corruption.

Though there are times when this whole "new equipment" over support thing goes into a real head. Such as when they designed the Typhoon much bigger than it had to be partially to avoid having to dredge an appropriately deep channel.

[Frame57]

It is around the same length as the Delta IV, also a 16-missile boat. An Ohio crams 24 onto the same length, but it has only one ~35000HP reactor, and is a single hull design.



She almost certainly does.



No, it isn't a joke. It is typical. In addition to those 55 officers, if the boat was actually commissioned as originally scheduled, it would have had something like 30 michmanny (warrant officers). They don't have the latter now because AFAIK they are getting working on getting rid of the michman core. The ship will be only 10-20% of what we may consider "normal enlisted" or conscripts.

The important thing is to get the correct mix of qualification onto the boat, and the Russian Navy uses its officer corps much more for technical matters than say the US.

A positive way of putting it would be that the Russians have more of a single line of authority, rather than a dual line.

The negative (and stereotypical) way of saying the same thing is that they have a weak NCO corps, and this leads to overworked officers, dedvoschina, blah, blah, blah... The Ohio class SSBN boats have a shaft HP of 60,000. Are you referring to the rating of the Russian sub?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

The Ohio class SSBN boats have a shaft HP of 60,000. Are you referring to the rating of the Russian sub?

AFAIK, they used to say the S8G and its turbine sets can pump out 60000. More recent sources like Polmar's Cold War Submarines dunked that down to ~35000.

As for the Russkie, it'll probably have in the region of 80000-100000HP, assuming a typical two OKB-650 variant reactor along with the turbines...

[XabbaRus]

Reporting a single reactor...I'll see what else I can dig up.

http://www.military-today.com/navy/borei_class.htm video of her at sea.

[CastleBravo]

Having the biggest is all good and all, but what price has been paid by Russian/Soviet submarine crews to be the biggest? Sub-Safe would certainly be of more value than tonnage. No?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Reporting a single reactor...I'll see what else I can dig up.

http://www.military-today.com/navy/borei_class.htm video of her at sea.

And lost 3 knots of estimated speed, down to 26 instead of 29...

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Having the biggest is all good and all, but what price has been paid by Russian/Soviet submarine crews to be the biggest? Sub-Safe would certainly be of more value than tonnage. No?

Well, in the end, there was no war, so relative safety in operational practice became a big part of the measure. However, even in the Russian Navy, the chances of an accident is relatively small. Had it been a war, the main effect of the Sub-Safe program would have been to drive the cost up for the sub and reduce the number available for any given budget.

[ETR3(SS)]

Having the biggest is all good and all, but what price has been paid by Russian/Soviet submarine crews to be the biggest? Sub-Safe would certainly be of more value than tonnage. No? I can't get into any specifics, but let me just say that Sub-Safe is/was my friend. :yeah:

[Kapitan]

I think personally maybe a shift from several classes of submarine down to one type of SSBN and one type of SSN would be a good move its cost effective and also allows parts to be interchangable within the fleets.

i dont think the russians even need as many as 12 of these submarines, personally i think 8 would do put 4 in each fleet along with some 24 nuclear attack submarines 12 each fleet and maybe to complement 12 more diesels in each fleet and also a few more into the baltic and black sea fleets.

i think also the russians are not going for the record books any more they have at the moment the worlds fastest deepest diving largest most heavily armed submarines so why do they need to make it even more so?

The soviets threw money at the navy hence why we had 550 submarines in service at the hieght of the cold war realistically now we dont even need 100 at present there are now 15 SSBN's 42 SSN's 11 SSGN's and some 16 SSK's which totals 84 submarines

The typhoon is actually a pretty safe submarine but so was the oscar class and many other types of submarines they do contain escape pods so you can escape the size also enables them to remain boyant with several compartments are flooded the phoon has something like 35% reserve boyancy so its pretty solid bit of kit for a 30 year old boat.

The typhoon is 562 feet long 84.2 feet wide and displaces 48,000 tonnes total SHP of 100,000 powered by two OK-650B reactors enablaing top speed of 30 knots maximum operational depth 450 meters crush at 620 meters.

The ohio comes close 560 feet long 42 feet wide and displaces 18,000 tonnes but dont forget trident is alot smaller than the sturgeon and 30 tonnes lighter.

Simplez