Questions about patrol

[FlyingTiger]

Hi guys,
I recently play SH4 and in need for advices about conducting a war patrol. Simple as I thought war patrol is when you bring your boat to a certain area and searching for ships there but still how does one do when making contact?
Will I just move along to that bearing or set up a good ambush? Because I try to follow the contact but it just like chasing the ships and make no point of a good plan. I know about the maneuvering tactic and how to set up a good firing position but there is something still trouble me during patrol. And may I ask, usually for you old skippers,how long do you stay on a patrol?
Thank you guys and please forgive me if these questions are ignorance.:DL
Cheers,

[SteamWake]

The biggest 'trick' is to get well ahead of the targets apparent course so that you can close to within 2,000 yards at a more or less 90 degree angle to their course and lay in wait.

In other words let them come to you. If they are already moving away it most likely is too late. You will simply burn up too much fuel trying to chase it down.

As to the last question I stay on patrol till either the torpedoes or ice cream runs out.

[Stealhead]

In the game you can stay out forever if get refits but in real life they stayed away for about 60-70 days or until they completed ammo basicly they got a time alotted that was about 60 days or so. This is smart for many reasons gives crews time to rest puts less wear and tear on the sub and it also allowed the cycling of crewman which allows knowlege to be spread around the entire sub fleet.I stay out the same time mainly because I get a little bored doing the same patrol after a while another good reason in game not stay out too long is if you have performed well you may get a newer sub and could also be missing out on newer gear and from time to time your subs bridge gets improved as well.

Keep an eye on a convoy when you set up sometimes they may make a course change and if you dont see this you will go from the perfect set up to being passed by miles ceratinly if they make enitre direction change like form NW to W or something of that nature.I would say if you are very new it is best to start a career in 1943 so that you will have the SJ radar and have map contacts on this will help greatly in plotting and finding convoys.Hunting in the early war times without SJ radar can be very hard at first.Another trick in a Tambor,Gar,Gato,or Balao class you can dive to about 45ft and this will allow you to be nearly invisable to anything several miles away but will allow you to keep the radar running in older subs the deapth is a little shallower you dip between periscope and radar deapth for peeks with the radar.Just be sure to dive to scope deapth when they get within about 10,000 yds of you.Also you can click the icon on your sonar tab that says follow nearst warship the sound man will update the bearing and you can peek from time to time dont get thrown by the escourts they run a sweeping patern while the merchants will run a more direct patern. Once you get the range of one ship then you will know roughly how far away all the others are and that will help you plot your way in.I end to plan my plots to end up about 1,000yds closer than where i think they will be that way if they do sail farther away I will still be close enough

[Akula4745]

As to the last question I stay on patrol till either the torpedoes or ice cream runs out.

Ditto, SW!

[Frame57]

Also note that when your navmap contacts in red pop up you must check the time of it by clicking on it. Then estimate how far they have gone and intercept them. Chasing them is not preferred, but you can do a round robbin or knuckle around to get into a good firing position. Stay clear of the convoy escorts and note their radar ranges as well when you do this. Happy hunting.

[Folducker]

Are you talking about a single target, or a convoy. What dates are you working from? Does your boat have radar?
This should work for a single contact;
When you first sight a contact, draw a line along it's anticipated course on the map. This gives you reference point as to which way the target is heading. Next, get in front without getting sighted. Go to flank speed if it looks like you don't have that far to go. Trying to overtake a contact from behind is a losing proposition. A stern chase is a really long chase. You want to do an end around and get out in front.
Once you are out in front, turn into the target, set a course directly at him. When the target gets close to you, submerge. If the target is a merchant ship. you don't have to worry about being heard, but it's a good idea to keep periscope up only for a short time. The sound traces are your best friend in this situation. Maneuver to a point about 1000 yards off the track you drew (You may need to adjust the position of the line you previously drew as the target gets closer). You want to set yourself up at around 1000 yards off the track of the target, lined up for a 90 degree shot. Use the TDC to lock on and wait for the arrow on the target in the periscope to go green. Be sure to open outer doors, (The Q key) before shooting as giving the order to shoot with doors closed will usually make you miss. (Takes time to open the doors). Nail the b*****d.
If your target happens to be a was ship, usually a destroyer you will have a more difficult time. Attacking destroyers was usually discouraged. since they are a lot faster, they have a tendacy to hear a torpedo and avoid it. Then you can be in for a bad time.

[Highbury]

If your target happens to be a was ship, usually a destroyer you will have a more difficult time. Attacking destroyers was usually discouraged. since they are a lot faster, they have a tendacy to hear a torpedo and avoid it. Then you can be in for a bad time.

Someone put a quote on the SHIII forums a few years back, I forget who had said it in real life, and the exact words, but the gist of it has stuck with me on every patrol since...

"My job is not to look for a fair fight. My job is to destroy the enemy's commerce." which to me means "I don't shoot at ships that shoot back unless I have to."

[FlyingTiger]

Thank you for your advices, kaleun. I usually play from the beginning of the war. Porpoise class. She's not a bad boat but lack of modern equipments. I moved forward to Japan at flank speed and then proceed to patrol area. There, I dived in the morning and surface at night. This is what I learned from a memoir of a sub skipper. but the thing is when submerge, it's hard to chase the target, even at flank speed so I must surface and the consequence is being bombed.
On another patrol in East China Sea,at dawn, I made contact with a small convoy of 6 freighters and 3 escorts. I was ahead of them and dived, their course was SW and I was in perfect firing position. So I sank a modern composite freighter and being pinned and depth charged till dark. Well, I dived to 70 m and lay low there, rigged for silent running too. Then at night, I managed to surface and tracked the route. Stalked them till morning and scored 2 sunks. I fired 3 fishes in the bow tubes and 2 in the stern. The stern ones were lucky,though:). During this second attack, I was behind them but know their course so I plotted my new course parallel to the convoy at flank speed and at about 6000 odd km. The result of this juicy patrol, I scored about 23000 tonnages, sank two small ships before by deck gun. It's quite small but to me, it's nice.

I wanna ask you about how to use the time compession properly? It's quite borinbg between the trip from Pearl to Japan, as you know so I put TC to max and when chasing convoy I don't know if you put in normal time or TC?

Thank you.

[Folducker]

You have to be very careful with TC. Don't use it properly and you find yourself surrounded by escorts pumping shells into you and you are headed for a date with Davy Jones before you know it. When attacking a convoy, I use TC for sprinting. Kick it up to 32 or 64 but be prepared to bring it back to 1 in a hurry.

There are some keyboard mods that will prevent firing torpedoes with the "Enter" key. (as far as I'm concerned one of the first mods you should make). I changed the "Enter" key from firing torpedoes to Normal TC. When cruising on the surface during the day, I usually have a finger on the "C" (Crash Dive) Key. This is especially helpful early on when you don't have radar. Until I got a boat with radar, when TC snapped to 1 or when one of those "Very Fast" contacts appeared, I automatically hit the C key. Saved my bacon more than once.

[Stealhead]

DTT against a destroyer if you let him get within 1,000 yds or less is almost 100% gonna kill him. Also the Mk.27 homers those can be highly effective if you use them correctly. I almost never attack escourts in a convoy I kill the merchants and I think it saps morale when I can kill you but you cant stop me they live and die by my will not thiers always fight on your terms never on thiers.I like to take down a lone patroling warship though. so thier last transimssion will be "HEEELPPP!!"

With the TC use that as fast as you want out of Pearl Id just keep it below 2000 after midway and once something is within spotting range dont use it at all then even a little TC might make you miss a change in direction or some other vital data TC also tends to make your sonarman forget to update you with data. Another thing when see a long range unknown contact along with the direction it will say slow medium or fast(very fast is always an aircraft) you can use this to plot just draw a "highway"(two spaced lines) in the said direction make it about 25 knm long then for slow guess 6 knots meduim guess 12 knots fast guess 20 knots then you know about how long that target is going to take to tarvel a given distance then you just plot your course to intersect a few miles ahead so your waitng when you get there it is best for you to travel at ahead flank that will give 20-21 knots in all subs but the S-boats and then it is about 13knts with Casey Jones on the steam.

Also when you dive dont travel at high speeds they will hear you from a mile away that is why you want to try to get into the best place before you dive and then silent run slowly it takes some time to learn this dont let some of the "experts" on this site make you think they had it all figured out(none of the guys that posted here so far act that way but some members do).It took me 3 months or so to get this down pat good enough I have had SH4 for 2 years I guess. I learn something new and tweek my skills every time I go on patrol.Another thing most wont tell you is the best way to learn allthe tricks is read what people do on this site read things in books and then take that bag dump it out and add your own ideas into the mix. Be like Bruce Lee make your own system.

[Highbury]

Thank you for your advices, kaleun. I usually play from the beginning of the war. Porpoise class. She's not a bad boat but lack of modern equipments. I moved forward to Japan at flank speed and then proceed to patrol area. There, I dived in the morning and surface at night. This is what I learned from a memoir of a sub skipper. but the thing is when submerge, it's hard to chase the target, even at flank speed so I must surface and the consequence is being bombed.

Just two more things based on this. First, Flank speed is not the best way to get to your patrol area. It makes for very short patrols. Read this thread for some good info on how the boats in SH use fuel:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151682

As for it being hard to chase the target, even at flank speed.. basically, unless it is a lone merchant going slow, if it is past you let it go. You will just burn fuel and probably never catch it let alone get a good firing angle. You will see a few people saying the same in posts above, never chase. We are stealthy hunters that lie in wait, chasing down enemies is not what we do. It is painful sometimes.. I had a TF pass me by last night just north of Batavia. 2 Kongo class BBs, perfectly flat seas and not a hope in hell of getting in range of a Mk.10... it sucks, but such is the life of a Sub Skipper. You need to have patience for this genre game/sim.

[Stealhead]

I think FlyingTiger has fuel and bats. off.He never did say what settings he had.I did not say chase setting a course intercept and chasing something you cant ever get to are not the same thing what I am saying is the way to get to a spot so that you can be waiting silently for the kill.Your method sounds like it relays alot on being lucky enough that something will cross your path mine makes it so that I will make him cross my path.:up:

[FlyingTiger]

Before I usually turn the fuel limit off but bat. on. Now I turn both on. It will help me to think twice and get everything more realistic. As you say, stalking is one painful progress, this, I just knew since I read a memoir of a sub skipper. In the memoir, he mentioned about a good ambush of two CV but everything was messed up cause the damn torps blew off prematurely. It was a patrol off Japan coast in 1942. And many times after he just missed good ambush due to many causes. I think I'll find some more book and read my way in and get something out of it after all. Thanks for your advices skippers. Maybe after several patrols I'll post the report on the site for you and maybe we can analyse it.
Good day to you all