How do YOU I.D. a Ship?

[Fish40]

After reading a couple of threads about the difficulties some folks have with target I.D., I'll share a couple of tips on how I do it, since this is one area that gave me some trouble as well.

I remember a while ago, I requested that the makers of RFB add a feature of the WO being able to identify a target for you, just like in SH3. I was told that they would not do so, because in reality there was some difficulty in IDing Japanese shipping(I think that was the reason). I was alittle disappointed because this was an area that frustrated me:damn: Those ships all looked the same to me!

I had to work alittle harder now, but with practice I was able to start IDing targets like a real submariner! The key IS practice. The more you do it, the better you'll get. Now I know alot of you out there don't use manulal targeting, and the ship is ID'd for you. That's OK. I know there are those that feel in RL the Captain would not be doing all these tasks, and a WO would indeed be IDing targets. That's true to a degree. The problem in the game is your guy is NEVER wrong! If you read RL sub patrols, you'd come across plenty of instances of mistaken ID.

As I said befor, I had to practice. Mistaken ID will cause missed shots. How? If you're like me, I determine speed by timeing how long it takes for a ship to cross the 0 bearing line of the scope. I have a chart of ship lengths, and doing some simple math, I can determine the ships speed pretty easily. That is of course if I ID it correctly! The wrong ship yields the wrong length, and subsequently the wrong speed and a missed shot.

So how could we ID a ship accurately in enough time befor it's on top of us? There are several things I do. I know this is pretty obvious but it may help a few out there. Also, this is basicly for merchants. First, I determine if I'm dealing with a Freighter, or Tanker. How? The position of the stack is a dead giveaway. A stack towards the Stern of the ship is a Tanker, while a more center oriented stack is a freighter. Right there, you just narrowed your choices down, so you don't have to start flipping through the manual looking at every ship. This can also be easily observed from long distances.

The next things do take practice and careful observations. They also need for the targt to be alittle closer for accuracy. Sticking with the stack, look at its shape and height. Some stacks are tall and thin, while others are more thicker and stout.

Look at the placement and design of the cranes and hoists. Use the feature of the manual that gives the angled views of the ship.

Also look at the placement of vents and platforms. Some freighters such as the Hog Island and the Raked Bow have a distinct curved air duct at the stern. When I see that duct, I automaticly know I'm dealing with either of those ships. Ships like the Large Modern Composit has a distinct raised platform at the stern.

Look for cuts and curves in the Hull design, and even the location of lifeboats. Some ships have them very visable. Well that's just a few of the major aspects I use to accurately ID a target. As I said befor, this is probrably obvious to most, but for a newguy who's haveing trouble like I did, mabey this will help.

I'd love to hear of anything different that some of you may use. I'm always open for new ideas!

[FIREWALL]

I just get close and sink it. The odds are in my favor it's the enemy. :D

If it isn't what the he!! are they doing in enemy territory ? :yep:

[Akula4745]

FIREWALL is right... if it swims where a duck swims, it's a duck!

I have been shooting anything that moves in RFB - and it has not been a problem yet (of course not all that much is moving in RFB... definitely not a target rich environment) LOL

[Platapus]

Once change I would like to see is the recognition book being separated into "chapters" based on ship type. Currently it is separated in to chapters based on nationality and a generic one called Merchants. The Merchant chapter needs to be broken up into type chapters.

This way, when you do see a ship of a specific type (tanker) you can open up that "chapter" and see a small diagram of all the tankers at once. This will allow you to quickly eliminate some and prioritize some others.

This would not only make it faster to ID the ship, but also clue you into which ships look "almost" alike.

[General Tso]

Once change I would like to see is the recognition book being separated into "chapters" based on ship type. Currently it is separated in to chapters based on nationality and a generic one called Merchants. The Merchant chapter needs to be broken up into type chapters.

This way, when you do see a ship of a specific type (tanker) you can open up that "chapter" and see a small diagram of all the tankers at once. This will allow you to quickly eliminate some and prioritize some others.

This would not only make it faster to ID the ship, but also clue you into which ships look "almost" alike.

I agree 1000%, I've been hoping someone would create a mod like that (if it's possible).

[Stealhead]

I have played SH4 so much I have the ships in my head. It is still a very good idea to make sure that you are about to attack a Japanese ship at points in the war you can see Dutch,Brit,and American ships in much of the Asiatic area so youd better be careful same goes for areas of Japan you can run into Soviet ships on the far side of Japan they are not to be attacked unless you want a crappier sub or to lose your job.And they have very good reason to be there they are transporting supplies youd feel really stupid if you sank an american ship that had supplies to help beat the Japs.;)

If you really wanted to up the feel of the game you could make your own ship ID manual in any format you like and then print it off. then you have your self something to really thumb through.

[Rockin Robbins]

Dick O'Kane Technique
John P Cromwell Technique
Fast-90 Technique (for U-Boats)
Don't ID 'em. Put 'em on the bottom.:up:

[tomoose]

Fish40 makes some good points. I essentially use the same techniques to ID a ship. I know it's not as prevalent in SHIV but I've set up on a target in SHIII a few times only to find it's a neutral ship. I like to play as I think I would in real life and would not arbitrarilly sink an unidentified ship. Granted, as has been mentioned, in the Pacific close to the enemy shore you're pretty much guaranteed it's an enemy ship (having said that, is there any RL reports on US skippers identifying a non-jap ship in supposedly enemy waters?).

Back to the point, stack first, cranes/masts second, superstucture and configuration as it gets closer.

I agree 100% with Platapus, it would be great if the ID book was divided into "chapters" or "sections" whereby you could 'flip' to the Tankers section or the Cargo section etc. It's a bit frustrating flipping through each merchant ship to find the various tankers etc. Is this doable as a mod? Having said that, Steelhead makes another good suggestion which I hadn't considered. How can the ID book information be printed out without taking a screenshot of everysingle ship, is there a file where this info is stored which can be brought up in a graphics program and printed?

[Stealhead]

I know the Barb once while in the Sea of Okhotsk did almost attack a Soviet vessel. they where in theroy neutral with Japan but by this time in 1945 I am sure they were gearing up for thier attack in Aug.45. their was an agreement that soviet ships would not enter Jap waters and that where to sail with decks light at night so as not to be attacked by US or Jap subs but the one the Barb saw was in Jap waters and did not have lights on and in real life we had to be very careful as the USSR was already our "Frienemy" by this point. And you can still spot other allied ships in the rapidly shrinking Jap areas so you do have to be careful as you will get a renown ding for sinking anything allied or neutral.

On one patrol in late 44 of off Formosa out of Fremantle I sailed back via the Molukka,Banda,and Timor seas(sometime in 43 there is a tender at Pulau Ternate) and I found a mixture of single allied and Jap ships one time in heavy fog I was all ready to fire and something threw me on the flag so I waited just a little longer it was Dutch. Now this same route up to mid 43 would be laden with Japs only but by mid 44 you cant be sure.Same goes for the first few months of the war as well.You had to sure of what you are about to attack in "Take Her Deep" they were all set up on a single ship when they saw that it had the green stripe and green cross a hosptail ship and they disengaged.( I know the Japanese did not always "play" fair but we did most of the time also you cant be certain whom was aborad that ship could have been civilans or POWs and if you get in the same mud as the bad guy dose then you and he are the same there are documented cases of Japanese that had even refused rescuse by our subs that got plucked out anyway later thanking the guys years later one Japanese man even just showed up unannounced at the sub that he was a guest ofs reunion to thank the sailors in person )

[vanjast]

Beside using the recognition book.. each ship type has unique characteristics.. eg: Raised bow/stern sections, stack right behind bridge, very tall stack in the middle, simplified/complicated rigging.. Knowing these would save you time, and as mentioned printing out a small manual with ship type details will make it realistic enough. :)

knock. knock..
"Hello Dear"
"Hello Mum, what's he doing"
"Oh not to worry mum, he's just going through the recognition manual "
" $#%#T$%^, I never know why you married him"

:har:

[Stealhead]

Another method that was not very well known but worked well was to simply stand on the deck grab the megaphone and shout;"Ahoy! might you be a friend or foe if you are a foe is it your Kings/Queens desire that his/her Majesties ship shall engage in battle with my Majesties ship?" if you see tracers you know he is a foe and also you will be so close aiming wont be very important and if you fail in battle your Majesty will not be pleased and you shall be banished from all court gatherings for life and maybe get beheaded.:doh: Of course this means that you will spend little time thumbing through your "ship ID book" i wonder if playboy would publish one?

[Fish40]

Dick O'Kane Technique
John P Cromwell Technique
Fast-90 Technique (for U-Boats)
Don't ID 'em. Put 'em on the bottom.:up:


RR, the DO method is great! Since I started useing it, I haven't turned my PK on since. I don't even know if it works anymore!:rotfl:

Seriously though, I was mainly posting about IDing ship types, and not so much Nationality. Platapus's idea about the sectioned manual is a good one. It would prevent alot of useless page flipping:yep:

[Sailor Steve]

@ Stealhead: Been studying at the Johann Sebastian Balz school of submarine warfare? Maybe you should be writing stories yourself.:rock:

[Stealhead]

Well part of IDing a ship even if you use the OKane method you at least see the flag it is flying a pretty vital part of warfare is knowing who you are about to attack.You can never be sure the IJN did have at least one Clmeson class DD that they had raised and used.;)

[Rockin Robbins]

And one of those captured US escorts located and sank Cdr Dealey's USS Harder.

What's this about I'm actually supposed to identify whether my target is Japanese or American? I figure the odds are pretty good and if some American is dumb enough to put himself in the sights of the USS Kraken, he better be a real fancy dancer to get out of the way.

If he's in the territory I am, he has a lot worse things to worry about than me anyway because I'm trudging around in the Sea of Japan.:D

[Stealhead]

Yeah I think I have read or heard that that Clemson was modified a bit by the IJN I dont think it even had the 4 stacks anymore. I'm just pulling legs most of the time it takes a split second to see a ships flag. It would be nice if they would have put in the wolf packs think of the havoc that could be unleashed end around after end around Id love that to be the attacker while the escourts are still trying to attack another sub it would be fun to have such Gung Ho.

[OrangeYoshi]

Well part of IDing a ship even if you use the OKane method you at least see the flag it is flying a pretty vital part of warfare is knowing who you are about to attack.You can never be sure the IJN did have at least one Clmeson class DD that they had raised and used.;)


It all depends on where you are. If you are en route from Pearl to Australia, you should ID a ship because it might be American. If you are a couple dozen miles from the Japan coast, why bother with ID'ing it? If it isn't Japanese, it is a Japanese ally. You should shoot it either way.

And one of those captured US escorts located and sank Cdr Dealey's USS Harder.

Interesting.

For ID'ing the type of ship, I do the following:

1. Count the masts and half mast type things it has.

2. Look at the style and location of the funnel.

3. Look at the style and height of the hull all, along the sides, and how the two sides come together at the front and back.

4. If you can't ID it yet, you need to get another job! :nope:

[Joe S]

The in-game recognition manual is too awkward to use and brouse around in. So I printed a version of it and then I take the Average mast height of the major ship types, such as large freighter, medium freighter, etc. I get close enought to determine the ship type and input the average mast height into the range finder and proceed with the manual fire control. Here are the mast heights that I use:BB= 164, CA= 119, CL= 116,DD=69,Minesweeper =69, Gunboat =16, Partol Craft 16, Transport=110, Large Tanker=98, Medium Tanker = 98 Small Tanker =65, Large freighter= 98, Medium Freighter=78, Small freighter 75. I hope you find this usefull. Joe S

[jmr]

I have a chart of ship lengths, and doing some simple math, I can determine the ships speed pretty easily.

Would you mind sharing this chart? I use the same method exclusively in SH3 for determining the target's speed.

[Fish40]

Would you mind sharing this chart? I use the same method exclusively in SH3 for determining the target's speed.


Try this:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1106952&postcount=3

[I'm goin' down]

In the Sea of Grass plot course for the tiered garden. Up periscope. Scan for succulent vegetables, like yummy lettuce (although I have strong appetites for collarettes, a fancy type of dahlia) or carrots, dive deep, approach at flank speed and surface directly under the target's root system, open the hatch, go topside, and eat until the plant sinks beneath the earth.

First rule: honor your avatar. Second rule: vegtables are good nutrition; Third rule: watch for airborne owls; Fourth rule: never surface during the daytime on a golf course in the tee area; Fifth rule: make friends with the gal who drives the refreshment cart.

[PortsmouthProwler]

I'll have what he's having.

[OrangeYoshi]

I'll call the paramedics.

Edit: I've heard of man-eating-grass, but I don't think you are supposed to smoke it. ;)

[Fish40]

Eat all the grass you want, but don't eat the yellow snow!:haha:

[I'm goin' down]

Whoa! what a trip! I mean, what a mission! I thought I was in Grass Sea. I forgot I was "captaining" a Gar in the South Pacific on a mission to sink Jap shipping. Instead, I remember attacking a convoy of carrots utiizing the John Cromwell attack technique and yelling, "Damn, that Rockin Robbins knows what he is talking about!" (What happened to my torpedoes? I remember getting the munchies, but I don't remember eating anything!)

How did I end up with a medal?

I would summarize the mission as memorable, but I cannot remember.:salute:

[PortsmouthProwler]

I'm transferring to his boat.