Crazy Ivan MK14 works for me!

[Akula4745]

Snuck into the middle of a convoy and fired off a salvo of MK14's... one of which immediately did the Crazy Ivan (doing big circles). Luckily I had the good sense to motor on outta there before it got me. As the escorts swarmed the spot where I had launched from one of the DD's got nailed by the crazy ivan... almost like I had left it waiting for him! Geez... what a great plan (if it had only been mine).

http://www.jimdeadman.com/dd_MK14_2.jpg

Later I went back and put another torp into the burning Akizuki just to ensure I wouldn't be seeing him again. Too funny... log is below.

http://www.jimdeadman.com/log.jpg

On a side note 3 kills from a single convoy intercept is my new all time high. I have sunk two and damaged two before... but never sunk three (two damaged this time also).

[Torplexed]

Don't sink the entire Japanese merchant marine Akula. They gotta have a few rusty worn-out hulks left to repatriate their troops home with when this war is over...which at the rate your going won't be long. :D

[bookworm_020]

Got to love it when it goes your way!:arrgh!:

[Akula4745]

Don't sink the entire Japanese merchant marine Akula. They gotta have a few rusty worn-out hulks left to repatriate their troops home with when this war is over...which at the rate your going won't be long. :D

Since most of their troops fought to the death... what do you figure they will need? Two, maybe three ships? LOL

This game is like geek-crack to me, Torp! I am helpless in its grasp!

[ichso]

The submariners should be able to pull out some cable to make the torpedo never adjusting his rudder to amidships anymore. Then it would just circle around the convoy until it hits something. Kind of like a circle-course-FaT-version, if you will :D

Radius of the circle would be adjusted by the gyro angle set in the TDC. Just be sure to go deep after launching a few of them ;)

[Akula4745]

The submariners should be able to pull out some cable to make the torpedo never adjusting his rudder to amidships anymore. Then it would just circle around the convoy until it hits something. Kind of like a circle-course-FaT-version, if you will :D

Radius of the circle would be adjusted by the gyro angle set in the TDC. Just be sure to go deep after launching a few of them ;)

Obviously it works like a champ, Ichso... LOL I am pretty sure the DDs would learn not to be so quick in jumping the firing spot. Heck it could revolutionize submarine warfare... we could just lay blankets of Crazy Ivan MK14s in front of an oncoming convoy!! :O: Who needs mines?

[ichso]

Heck it could revolutionize submarine warfare
Hm, I think people will go with their (optical?sound-based?) homing stuff today, but let's build a time machine and tell the guys back then! :arrgh!:

[Torplexed]

Since most of their troops fought to the death... what do you figure they will need? Two, maybe three ships? LOL

This game is like geek-crack to me, Torp! I am helpless in its grasp!

Akula4745

They did fight to the death, but what is ironic is how many never got to fight again at all after Japan's initial 1941 victories because they were cut off by the effective submarine campaign. Between October 1 1945 and December 31 1946, a total of approximately 5,103,300 Japanese were returned to their homeland by a mix of remaining Japanese naval vessels and surplus US vessels pressed into service. Most of them veterans from central China, Southeast Asia, Malaysia, the Netherlands East Indies who hadn't seen serious combat since 1941 or early '42. After years of relatively easy occupation duty aboard they were rather shocked to find how devastated Japan was. I'm sure the Japanese Army would have loved to have placed some of those troops in the Marianas or the Philippines or Okinawa but it just wasn't possible due to lack of shipping.

So keep up the one-man wolfpack. You're making it easy for the Army. :salute:

[TLAM Strike]

The submariners should be able to pull out some cable to make the torpedo never adjusting his rudder to amidships anymore. Then it would just circle around the convoy until it hits something. Kind of like a circle-course-FaT-version, if you will :D

Radius of the circle would be adjusted by the gyro angle set in the TDC. Just be sure to go deep after launching a few of them ;) Actually according to O'Kane's book that is the reason for the circling fish. The Mk 14 was equipped to run in a circle while the sub was dived to attack a chasing destroyer. It was never used but the torpedoes were still designed to accept the modification and occasionaly the rudder would jam because of it.

[Armistead]

I've had that happen several times. Those circle runs seem to never miss if a dd is on your tail. If it misses the first pass, it get's em the second one.

[Loud_Silence]

I know, i'm a noob, kill me. But a Crazy Ivan is one of those torps that loses the gyro and goes very, very wrong right? I never had one...

[Akula4745]

Yes sir... a MK14 gone crazy ivan will do a big circle and pop you in the stern if you are not watching. Had it happen to me personally (in the game of course)! LOL

[TLAM Strike]

I had my first today. Luckly I had my scope trained a 000 reltive so I saw the fish pop out of the water and turn to starboard. I whent deeper and speeded up to flank to get out of its way.

[Akula4745]

Too bad there wasn't a DD racing over to that spot! LOL

[Stealhead]

It is called a circle runner Akula made up the Carzy Ivan which was an unrealted Soviet Navy submarine move to let a NATO tracker know that he knew you where there.He used that because it happened to hit something.

The circle run can hit you really anywhere if you dont dive fast enough I had one and simply hit crash dive and went to external view to see what would happen and it just missed my bridge amd passed over me.

I am not sure that the Mk.14 was ever designed to have a pattern like that. form I have heard what went wrong was when the fish are fired they have been set with data to go guide them towards the target and at some point the rudders make a turn one time to head in the target deirection and then minor adjustments to stay on course sometimes the rudders jammed in that turn rather than going stright along the course that would head for the target according to the TDC data.Also I thought the Tang got hit by a mk.18 not a Mk.14. circle runner.The problem was for submarine torpedos there was nothing to stop the torpedo from going in a circle other types had a collar to stop this so they just went of course but did not turn in such amanner that they would boomarang.

If you are really bored then http://hnsa.org/doc/torpedo/index.htm#pg10
will tell you alot about how the torpeods function and http://hnsa.org/doc/tdc/index.htm will tell you all about the TDC.

[Akula4745]

It is called a circle runner Akula made up the Crazy Ivan which was an unrelated Soviet Navy submarine move to let a NATO tracker know that he knew you where there. He used that because it happened to hit something.

LOL - well I couldn't help myself... "Crazy Ivan" just sounded so perfect for this!

[TLAM Strike]

I am not sure that the Mk.14 was ever designed to have a pattern like that. form I have heard what went wrong was when the fish are fired they have been set with data to go guide them towards the target and at some point the rudders make a turn one time to head in the target deirection and then minor adjustments to stay on course sometimes the rudders jammed in that turn rather than going stright along the course that would head for the target according to the TDC data.Also I thought the Tang got hit by a mk.18 not a Mk.14. circle runner.The problem was for submarine torpedos there was nothing to stop the torpedo from going in a circle other types had a collar to stop this so they just went of course but did not turn in such amanner that they would boomarang.
Yes the torpedoes that sank Tang and Tullibee were Mark 18 Mod 1s. But the problem was not limited to those weapons. The British had encountered them in WWI and the Germans lost one U Boat to them in WWII.

Here is the two paragraphs I was talking about in O'Kane's book...

“The question that immediately arose was why submarine torpedoes were not fitted with anti-circular run devices, a relatively simple addition to send them in to a dive should they turn beyond a specific limit. Erratic and even circular runs, though rare, did occur in peacetime torpedo exercises. In fact in wartime, then Commander Nesmith, V.C., had a circular run in the harbor of Constantinople back in 1915, but his submarine was submerged. Perhaps that was the answer. A submarine at periscope depth was well below the running depth of torpedoes set to hit a surface ship, and submarine surface operations as they evolved for certain circumstances during the war with Japan could not have been envisaged.

Still, in Pruitt (Note from T, A WWI era 4 piper destroyer) the Mark 8s and in Argonaut the Mark 15s, which were also used by destroyers, had anti-circular run devices. And then I remembered: Early in the period of Limited Emergency, some members of ComSubPac's staff, after witnessing a demonstration of destroyer antisubmarine proficiency at the sound school, were convinced that once a submarine was detected it would have great difficulty in escaping. The submarine base was therefore directed to provide the boats with rudder claps that could be used to make torpedoes circle as defensive weapons against destroyers that might be camped overhead. In Argonaut we had considered this to be silly, and they wouldn't work on our torpedoes with their anti-circular run devices anyways. But the staff obtained permission from the Bureau of Ordnance to deactivate the anti-circular run devices, thus doing away with this safety measure as a requirement in submarine torpedoes.”

From “Clear the Bridge! The War Patrols of the USS Tang” by Rear Admiral Richard H. O'Kane, USN. Pg 461-462.


Well there you have it another thing you can thank the Bureau of Ordnance for...