Pesky bombers in '42

[Nangleator]

I'm using stock SHIII in mid-'42 and I first got bounced by bombers well out in the Atlantic. I've played up to late '43 before without things getting too crazy, but on this patrol, each and every time I surface, the bombers are on me within an hour, sometimes in minutes. I made it to my patrol station and just sat motionless until oxygen was almost gone. After a short surface run only to recharge air, I stayed under for as long a stretch as I could.

Bombers every time I surface. I can't get enough battery charge. I keep changing headings, but they're always there. The weather, for once, won't get worse than 15m and light fog.

I don't bother surfacing at night, because they find me just as quickly, but my spotters don't see them until too late.

Is this normal? What do you do?

[Torplexed]

Look on the bright side. It hasn't been a dull patrol so far. :ping:

[RoaldLarsen]

I'm using stock SHIII in mid-'42 and I first got bounced by bombers well out in the Atlantic. I've played up to late '43 before without things getting too crazy, but on this patrol, each and every time I surface, the bombers are on me within an hour, sometimes in minutes. I made it to my patrol station and just sat motionless until oxygen was almost gone. After a short surface run only to recharge air, I stayed under for as long a stretch as I could.

Bombers every time I surface. I can't get enough battery charge. I keep changing headings, but they're always there. The weather, for once, won't get worse than 15m and light fog.

I don't bother surfacing at night, because they find me just as quickly, but my spotters don't see them until too late.

Is this normal?

Sounds like Tom Jones syndrome.

What do you do?
1) I remember what I leaned about distribution of random numbers.

2) I try to get away from areas of high aircraft probability: close to land.

3) I reduce submerged speed to 0.1 knots less than an integer value derived from 1/6ths of battery charge remaining over 50%. I.e.:

battery 83%+ -> 2.9 knots
battery 67% to 83% -> 1.9 knots
battery 50% to 67% -> 0.9 knots
battery < 50% -> immobile except to surface or dive

4) When surfaced I run with decks awash, if weather permits, to reduce dive times. You can't do this with straight stock , but it is a very easy mod.

5) I try to surface only when there is enough light to detect aircraft visually, or when fog is medium or heavy.

6) Changing heading does nothing to protect you from the game's aircraft search algorithm, except if you head away from the nearest airbase and not towards a greater concentration of air coverage.

[Nangleator]

> 3)

Whoah. How did you come up with that algorithm? Trial and error over years?

I actually gave up on that career and started a new one, mid '41. Cowardly, I know.

But I'm still in the Bay of Biscay and have 33k tons without a single eel fired so far. Will be a good patrol if the same planes don't find me.

[Paul Riley]

While crossing the bay of Biscay I normally run surfaced for 1 hour while manning the guns (to protect against fighter attacks as there is no time to dive against them ,and submerge for 1 hour at ahead 1/3.I make a full surface on clear days,and run decks awash at night while recharging.When out to sea I risk a full surface run as only bombers can reach you then and are much slower as a result,and if you have a half decent watch crew and clear conditions,and good reactions,and not travelling with TC over 64,you should be able to get under just in time.Just remember to hammer those engines and level off at 50m,while making a full 90 deg turn port or starboard.Reduce speed after the first set of bombs land.Return to course,then get the men to work reparing your now f####d UBoat! :doh: ...unless of course you made it :salute:

This of course can only work in ideal conditions,and I have already lost 2 UBoats to air attacks (that was also with the stock game,or the Jurassic era).I reckon i'm going to have real fun this time :o:nope:

[Nangleator]

In my experience, in stock SHIII, the bombers can get their bombs on me quite well on the first pass, but later, only bomb the spot where I disappeared. I've never needed to change course.

'39 -- An airplane sighting is a rare thing, and gives you minutes to submerge.
'40 -- The same, with probably more occurrences.
'41 -- Now, they're serious, and can come in groups. Enough time to dive, though.
'42 -- I'll take damage from every incidence of a spotted aircraft. Sometimes they see me at night.
'43 -- Consistent appearances day and night. I have to be on the ball to only take minor damage.
'44 -- Never made it beyond '43. Only been sunk by A/C when I try to fight them, though.

[RoaldLarsen]

> 3)

Whoah. How did you come up with that algorithm? Trial and error over years?I came up with that running a couple dozen careers in '42, '43 and 44. Lost half of those boats doing it Almost all to aircaft. Almost all the lost boats were type IXs. Five are still going, The rest retired. Almost all retired boats were type VIIs.

The idea is that your battery discharges slower if you go slower. I never want my battery below 50%, in case I get bounced by a surface ship and need to manoeuver. The discharge rate appears to be a function of the value of your current speed, truncated to an integer, so a speed of 1.9 discharges at the same rate as a speed of 1. (At least that's how my LI seems to have rigged things.)

[Jaman]

'44 -- Never made it beyond '43. Only been sunk by A/C when I try to fight them, though.
In 44 is just hell, they can (and will) come anytime anywhere. In my last career i got hit 300km away from Brest, direct hit and lot of damage to the batteries, unable to manouver while submerged. They came in 4 waves while on my way to port to finish me off.

[Murr44]

I'm playing a GWX Med career at the moment. It's March '42 & I'm on my 4th patrol. I'm really beginning to hate Hudsons. Seems like everywhere I go, even in the middle of the night, one of the :damn: things will turn up! I've yet to see the Luftwaffe during this career. It would be nice if our honoured Reichsmarschall could postpone one of his Paris shopping trips long enough to give his boys down here a swift kick in the *ss.:stare:

[Nangleator]

Never seen a friendly A/C in stock.

I'm nervous whenever they launch me on a new patrol in daylight. How close to base can you be bombed? Some of that water is a bit too shallow...

[Pepe le Moko]

One thing I have been wondering, if you don't have external views on, what do you do when you spot an aircraft? Just dive, better be safe than sorry and all that?

[Murr44]

I'm pretty sure that the number of enemy aircraft that you may encounter depends on the level of time compression used and I think that this applies to ships too. If I'm not mistaken the game compensates for high tc levels by lowering the amount of planes and ships to reduce the load on the pc.
If you're playing from 1941 onwards & crossing the Bay of Biscay while surfaced in daylight, I'd run the game at no more than 128x. I was playing stock once & got hit really hard by a Hurricane. I'd been running the game as fast as I could go and my boat suffered a lot of damage. We were only a few hours from base & just barely made it back.

[Jaman]

One thing I have been wondering, if you don't have external views on, what do you do when you spot an aircraft? Just dive, better be safe than sorry and all that?
As soon as you hear your watchman say "Aircraft spotted!" go crash dive and change course, and after you are submerged change course again. Its not worthy the risk of fighting them, even if you have the flak turret with 4 vierlings, those big bombers can take a lot of damage and still fly, but you may sink with just one hit.

[Murr44]

One thing I have been wondering, if you don't have external views on, what do you do when you spot an aircraft? Just dive, better be safe than sorry and all that?

That's the best course of action in my opinion. I was running at periscope level after being attacked when I spotted what looked like an Italian plane through the observation scope. Wasn't sure so I played it safe & stayed down until dark.

[Pepe le Moko]

Oh yes that's what I do, I meant do you try to identify it to make sure it is an allied aircraft before crash diving?

[Jaman]

Oh yes that's what I do, I meant do you try to identify it to make sure it is an allied aircraft before crash diving?
Most of the time it wont be one of yours, dont take the risk, just dive.

[Paul Riley]

Against fighters it may be safer to initially try to fight back,allow him to make his run,then get under as soon as you can.Against bombers you have a few critical seconds to get the brain working and get under in time :timeout:

[Bent Periscope]

Jaman,

You mentioned that you CD & change course when you see a plane.

When do you change course? Surfaced or how far under?
And also, at what angle since that might slow you sub and the dive?
Do you turn towards the plane or away or give him a broadside view?

BP

[Jaman]

Jaman,

You mentioned that you CD & change course when you see a plane.

When do you change course? Surfaced or how far under?
And also, at what angle since that might slow you sub and the dive?
Do you turn towards the plane or away or give him a broadside view?

BP
First hard turn while on surface a second before i hit crash dive, the second while diving between 15 and 20m.

I dont care the direction the plane is coming from, i always assume he already knows im there so i do the first turn so he can see it and the second to get off his bombing run when he cant see me.

I dont know if it works or im just lucky, but until now they never got me while doing this manouver, only the times i was stupid enough to fight back.

[RoaldLarsen]

I believe that crash diving while turning slows down the dive. Getting down seems more important than dodging. If I'm diving, I only change course after getting to 30m depth or after the first salvo of depth bombs. If I stay on the surface and have a few seconds, I'll turn towards the aircraft early, then turn in the opposite direction as he's about to attack.

[Jaman]

I believe that crash diving while turning slows down the dive.
I wont deny that, but doing this seems to keep them off track, although i´ll try your tactic next few times.

[Kubryk]

Since this topic is about aircraft I'll ask here - what's the best tactic to fight, not to evade? I've experienced dozens of attacks on my last patrol, but I said to myself - we're not going to dive.

Partly because good weather in stock is so rare I try to get as much in my logbook as possible, partly because I was fed up, partly because I had brand new flakzwiling and trained flaksman - I fought with them.

In my 30-days at sea, with 2000 shells, green bar over flak full - I've managed to get credit for 12 Hurricanes. Sometimes they were flying in pairs, sometimes 4 or 5 was attacking at once, sometimes we were spotted by a loner.

My thoughts:
- there were dozens of meetings, only once we managed to see plane and he didn't see us. So if you hear a plane and don't want to fight - hoping for a blind pilot is a bad idea.

- fighters act randomly. they can attack on their first run, dropping bombs pretty close to uboat or they can just fly close to you and then prepare an attack. it's random

- there are obvious glitches - many times fighters which still had their bombs wouldn't do anything hostile, only fly in an attack pattern, without commencing the actual attack

- sometimes, especially when number of planes attacking is bigger than 2, they can hit the water on their own

- sometimes a plane that was hit by flak is smoking and escaping, no credit

- sometimes a plane that was hit and crashed gives you no credit

- fighters (Hurricanes) only drop bombs, they don't use machine guns

- they call for DD

- having a specialized flak shooter / officer on deck helps with reloading times.

- even with full green bar your crew can act like idiots. I had at least 3 examples of the same damn situation - fighter was closing slowly and lowly from behind my boat, like a tourist. My crew was ordered to engage any plane on a medium distance, fire at will. Nothing. Plane was less than 100m from boat in a perfect postion and nothing. I had to manually operate flak, but I'm not good at it, never hit anything.

- it seems that even in TC1 your WO can be a blind idiot. And if he doesn't spot the plane, your flak won't fire. Best part is - you cannot just target the plane with binoculars and hit space, because space is inactive if your WO is blind. This is extremely frustrating.

My questions:
What's the most effective way of manuevering when fighting planes? IMHO it would be best to have them closing and moving away after a drop BEHIND your boat, how to achieve that?

Also, for some reason I always order flank speed when with planes, even when I don't want to dive. Is this reasonable?

Is there a way for WO to preserve orders? I'd like my crew to know that if a plane is spotted in good weather we're fighting from medium distance. Seems game is forgetting that, meaning my flaks are shooting (initially) from large distance, missing of course, then when reload is in progress planes can harrass me freely.

I'd begreatful for your comments on this subject.

[Gaijin]

April, 1942, in the Med...

Last night I had occasion to shoot down my first aircraft (In GWX GOLD). May I say to the GWX team...wow. :up:

I had previously dived three times to avoid others, and was down to almost zero O2 and decided to surface come hell or high water. Sure enough, within minutes, a kingfisher arrives to bother me. I order crew to fire back and take evasive actions. She makes one pass over us and my AA crew get her right as she is above us.

First the smoke, then an almighty explosion. Followed by an even bigger one, with different coloured flames, followed by it splintering into dozens of flaming pieces. I'm looking open mouthed at the screen and follow the raining debris floating down (Most of it, I couldn't keep all of it in the same vision on screen).

You could see the tail section, a spinning engine, a smoking wing...all falling...then finally, several big splash's, right in front of us.

I am in awe.:salute:

[nikbear]

I've tried the fighting it out with them routine.....:nope:And discovered that one maxim in that sought of situation rings true, "You have to be lucky all the time,They only have to be lucky once"....far easier to hit the 'C' button and be safe,than to man the guns and end up sorry:03: