MK 14 reliability?

[Akula4745]

Just ended a patrol where I enjoyed 14 (yes - FOURTEEN!) MK 14 duds... it is so much fun to work your way into a convoy then fire off 6 fish... 4 duds, 1 miss, 1 hit... ARGH!! Of course there is also the crazy ivan MK 14s which do a big circle and for a second you think you just torpedoed your self... geez. I will be sailing with a full compliment of MK 10s on my next sortie.

So can someone fill me in on when did the MK 14 get a little more reliable? In my current career it is May 1942... any tips on when I should start using them again?

[magic452]

Mid '43 so you got some time to go.
Mk. 10s don't have the power of the 14 but more power than a 14 that is a dud :know:

Magic

[Akula4745]

Thanks Magic... mid 43'
Will do sir.

[Saturnalia]

That or take a Narwhal for a spin. Only sub with a broadside! :arrgh!:

[SteamWake]

a few tips that might help

1.) Forget magnetic detonations you throw in a good chance of failure before the fish has even left the tube. Go for impact and set em shallow.

2.) Shoot the torpedoes at slow speeds. High speed tends towards alot more duds (see 3 below).

3.) Dont strive for perfect 90 degree impact. A little off angle is better

-------->| Doink ! -------->/ Kaboom.

From what I understand it had something to do with the detonators. Wether or not modeled in the game I have no idea. But the above does seem to lead to less duds.

Your still gonna get some duds, premies, and circle runners, but your odds will improve.

[Akula4745]

Thanks SW... I do close shots so almost always use high speed - plus I have been doing the hard 90 degree thing too. Going for the best shot ya know...

Very good info. Much appreciated sir.

[LukeFF]

From what I understand it had something to do with the detonators. Wether or not modeled in the game I have no idea. But the above does seem to lead to less duds.

Yes, it is modeled. Firing Mark 14s on the low speed setting and at an extreme angle will reduce the chance of a dud.

[Lt Cmdr. Duke E. Gifford]

From what I understand it had something to do with the detonators. Whether or not modeled in the game I have no idea.


The problem was the firing pins. If they hit at high speed and/or close to perpendicular, they would hit very hard, and the high force caused the firing pin to bend instead of triggering detonation. Reducing the angle and/or speed reduced the impact force.

[PortsmouthProwler]

Historical summary:

* The XIVs were never tested properly before the war. There were three problems that were uncovered and resolved in the following order, although with much resistance and reluctance by the USN Bureau of Ordnance (BuOrd):

# They ran too deep. This was established within a year and was the first corrected.

# The mag detonation sequence didn't trigger properly. Partly, this was due to not taking into account the wide differences in latitude in the Pacific (mag field of the Earth varies) in the original design. Also, water temps vary widely in the Pacific and this affected things. To a large degree, this was attended to by shutting the mag setting off.

# The impact detonator crumpled too easily, too soon, and ineffectively. This wasn't too hard to fix, IIRC.

All in all, the USN didn't have reliable MkXIV torpedoes until September, 1943.

[Stealhead]

Yes sadly all the crap was because there was almost no real testing of the Mk.14. They never tested the mag dets on a hulk before the war even though some wanted to try it. Other nations mag dets had the same problems though.Every weapon ever made has some problems when first being used the mk.14 just had alot more than average.Yet like other at first highly flawed weapons like the M-16 the mk.14 turned out to be an outstading weapon when they ironed out the bugs.Do some reading on early Vietnam air to air combat the aim-7 sparrows had lots of problems at first they had a 90% failure rate at one point I dont think the mk.14 was ever that bad.
My method for circle runners is to space about 6 seconds between each shot then I will rapidly go to the hydrophone and listen to the fish swim you will hear one go off track this way if you hear it better crash dive rapido also I tend to dive as soon as my last shot is away. In real life the sonarmen listned for you and alerted as soon as they heard any fish run astray you cant of course do this on the surface that is what got the Tang.

[Platapus]

Two interesting books on the subject are


“HELLIONS Of The DEEP" The Development of American Torpedoes in World War II. - By Robert Gannon

"Iron men and Tin fish" By Anthony Newpower

and though I can't really recommend this third book, it does address it... kinda

"Slide Rules and Submarines: American scientists and subsurface warfare in World War II" by Montgomery Meigs

[SteamWake]

"Iron men and Tin fish" By Anthony Newpower

Like the title :yeah:

[Platapus]

What is nice about the Ganon book is that it also has information on the problems the Germans had with their torpedoes and the problems they had with fixing them.

[Shkval]

Set them to 3 m depth, contact, AOB about 70-80 degrees, and that's a hit!

[rubenandthejets]

If you on automatic aiming, get used to using the deck gun.

[Stealhead]

If you have auto aiming you just have to attack the same way you would to get a 70-80 shot with manual auto aim or not when you lock it aims for the center of the ship no matter the AOB you can adjust the impact point by adding left or right to the spread angle.So you can do 1 fore 1 amid 1 after or any combo.Just dont add very much left or right or even if you have a perfect formula it may still miss.

[Akula4745]

If you have auto aiming you just have to attack the same way you would to get a 70-80 shot with manual auto aim or not when you lock it aims for the center of the ship no matter the AOB you can adjust the impact point by adding left or right to the spread angle.So you can do 1 fore 1 amid 1 after or any combo.Just dont add very much left or right or even if you have a perfect formula it may still miss.

Thanks Stealhead!

[Warhawk]

There were actually 4 things wrong with the MK14 torpedo

A. The depth keeper was incorrect due to the calibration of the wartime head..a tech used the water weight to calibrate which was lighter than the wartime head, not to mention the location of the depth gauge was in an area that was susceptible to hydrodynamic pressures, which going from 30 to 46knots increased the pressure astronomically..they finally determined that the torpedoes were running 11 feet to deep. (which hid the fact that B was a problem)

B. The MKVI magnetic exploder was so classified there was no manual ever produced (the only manual was locked in an admirals safe) there were no test shots fired because it was too expensive to waste fish and the exploder being so highly classified. The magnetic fields in one area were not the same in another and resulted in many pre-mature detonations. (which hid the fact that C was a problem)

C. The exploder in the wartime shot was designed for the MK10 torpedo, it ran at 30 knots..the MK14 was 46, the inertia of the increased speed would literally bend the firing pin when it impacted the side of a ship, buckling the firing mechanism housing and not firing the torpedo...they found this out by dropping torpedos from 90 meters from a crane onto steel plates 7 out of 10 failed to detonate...the fix was to beef up the housing and to use turned town aluminum (recovered from jap zeros from pearl harbor none the less) firing pins. A glancing blow would usually detonate the torpedo.

D. The last one really wasn't an impact on the effectiveness of the torpedo against enemy shipping but was directly related to at least 2 American sub losses...the torpedo would turn back on itself and hit the firing submarine..the MK15 torpedo (ship launched) had a collar around the internal gyroscope that prevented it from allowing the torpedo to be out of direction by 180 degrees which would mean it would litterally turn back towards the firing location...they never did implement the collar on the MK14 though.

The darn Bureau of Ordinance steadfastly denied there was a problem..which resulted in almost 2 years of failed shots against Japan...we could have brought their shipping to a standstill early on by sinking all thier ships...

I absolutely LOVE submarine history...

If you want to read up on it..check it out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo
http://diodon349.com/Torpedoman/Torpedoes_USN/mark_14_3A_torpedo_Mk_6_exploder.htm

[irish1958]

Warhawk,
Welcome aboard. Your comments are excellent.
"Keep up the Good Work"
Opps, that's SH3 :damn: