What is IV missing...

[Rosencrantz]

So far I have found only two things I really miss:


1.) A better radar screen/wiev. "Model IV" is propably the most clumsy-to-use installation I have ever seen. It's very real, but really not very handy. Especially taking bearings is really challenging.

2.) Boat's course and depth displayed in numbers in toolbar and possibility to give a new course by clicking the numbers - not compass. Just like it's done in DW. And I think this doesn't have to mean kind of "digital" outlook but something more "old fashion" functioning in the same way.


-RC-

[coasterdigi]

I know it's purely cosmetic, but one of the things I enjoyed about SH3 was the ability to 'hang out' in the captain's nook and watch the radioman and sonorman work. Something about that just added to the immersion factor for me.

I'd love to see some sort of virtual tour of a fleet boat, with at least most of the compartments modeled and the ability to move through each one. Hell, even the Deadliest Catch game had one. I realize it would be a lot of work on the devs' part, but how cool would it be to watch your guys in the forward torpedo room reload tubes one and two after nailing a merchant?

[Herr Trigger]

I agree with Coasterdigi about the bunk, but most off all I would really like to see semaphore signalling! Having just moved over from SH3 the first thing I noticed on my first SH4 Tub was a big fat flashlight on the back of the conning tower, Yippee I thought, but if only it worked.

H.T.

Ha, Ha, just noticed. I know I haven't posted for a while but I didn't know I've been promoted to 'Shore Leave',
& where the hell did the admin get my photo from? Lol

[Aramike]

I know it's purely cosmetic, but one of the things I enjoyed about SH3 was the ability to 'hang out' in the captain's nook and watch the radioman and sonorman work. Something about that just added to the immersion factor for me.

I'd love to see some sort of virtual tour of a fleet boat, with at least most of the compartments modeled and the ability to move through each one. Hell, even the Deadliest Catch game had one. I realize it would be a lot of work on the devs' part, but how cool would it be to watch your guys in the forward torpedo room reload tubes one and two after nailing a merchant?
I completely, 100% agree ... I wish you could move around your boat. Would be even better if you could interact with your crew meanfully. This would add an extra dimension to the game, beyond compressing time, finding ships, sinking ships, rinse, repeat.

[AVGWarhawk]

Interact with your crew? Play cribbage:06: What interaction with the crew other than clicking his pixel head, said head shaking yes or no then make a valve turn with a pixel hand. :hmmm:

[FIREWALL]

I think from looking at the pics that GWX4 is going to grant a few wishes. :yeah:

[AVGWarhawk]

As far as I know the Uboats in SH4 have the capts and sonar quarters. :hmmm: I suspect the original poster was refering to the fleetboats not having these quarters to visit?

[Rockin Robbins]

Equipment malfunctions, especially electronics! 100% reliability can't be called simulation!
Digital compass course under compass instead of rudder position!
Steering by heading not direction of movement, both in forward and reverse.
Map positional uncertainty, weighted by distance, target height and observing conditions for visual targets.
Real ONI recognition manual not containing all targets in the game and as ambiguous as the real one
Stadimeter adjustments: you should have to input the height of the deck, cabin top, funnel or mast you want to measure into the stadimeter and then take the sighting, just like the real sub. ONI manual should contain multiple height measurements for each target.
Digital range readout on the radar
Direct TDC input from radar and sonar for range and bearing
Realistic diving behavior, varied by speed of submarine.
Direct TDC to periscope connection as the real subs had. American subs COULD do Fast-90. SH4 ones cannot.
Player control of ballast system. Just once I'd love to issue the command "Flood negative to the mark." Require trim dives to calibrate negative and incorporate specific gravity changes in the water to penalize not doing trim calibration dives.
Digital input of depth and heading orders.

Yeah, there's more, but that's enough to make a game that's much better than we have.

[AVGWarhawk]

Equipment malfunctions, especially electronics! 100% reliability can't be called simulation!
Digital compass course under compass instead of rudder position!
Steering by heading not direction of movement, both in forward and reverse.
Map positional uncertainty, weighted by distance, target height and observing conditions for visual targets.
Real ONI recognition manual not containing all targets in the game and as ambiguous as the real one
Stadimeter adjustments: you should have to input the height of the deck, cabin top, funnel or mast you want to measure into the stadimeter and then take the sighting, just like the real sub. ONI manual should contain multiple height measurements for each target.
Digital range readout on the radar
Direct TDC input from radar and sonar for range and bearing
Realistic diving behavior, varied by speed of submarine.
Direct TDC to periscope connection as the real subs had. American subs COULD do Fast-90. SH4 ones cannot.
Player control of ballast system. Just once I'd love to issue the command "Flood negative to the mark." Require trim dives to calibrate negative and incorporate specific gravity changes in the water to penalize not doing trim calibration dives.
Digital input of depth and heading orders.
Yeah, there's more, but that's enough to make a game that's much better than we have.


Now were talking! :D

[Aramike]

Interact with your crew? Play cribbage:06: What interaction with the crew other than clicking his pixel head, said head shaking yes or no then make a valve turn with a pixel hand. :hmmm:Plenty of games offer interaction with NPCs. It's hard for me to consider anything a command simulation when it completely ignores the influence the skipper can have on his crew. Consider a scenario where a crew member is wounded and low on morale. Wouldn't it be interesting to walk through your boat, notice shaky crew behavior, and be able to address it as a real skipper would?

[AVGWarhawk]

Plenty of games offer interaction with NPCs. It's hard for me to consider anything a command simulation when it completely ignores the influence the skipper can have on his crew. Consider a scenario where a crew member is wounded and low on morale. Wouldn't it be interesting to walk through your boat, notice shaky crew behavior, and be able to address it as a real skipper would?

To be honest, no. Crew interaction would be the last on my list considering the other aspects of the game that were left out (See RR's list above). To me it is a simulation of tactics and the weapons of the time. Not a game to take care of shaking pixel people. I'm completely satisfied with what SH4 has concerning a crewman on the crew screen interface with a shade of pink is enough for me to realize he is ill'in. So he goes to the medic. Done deal. I do not want to spend my time starting the conversation with, "Look son.....". Tracking, tactics and sinking ships:yeah: That is what it is about for me. If you want to influence your crew...avoid depth charges and attacking aircraft! They will love you for it.

[Aramike]

To be honest, no. Crew interaction would be the last on my list considering the other aspects of the game that were left out (See RR's list above). To me it is a simulation of tactics and the weapons of the time. Not a game to take care of shaking pixel people. I'm completely satisfied with what SH4 has concerning a crewman on the crew screen interface with a shade of pink is enough for me to realize he is ill'in. So he goes to the medic. Done deal. I do not want to spend my time starting the conversation with, "Look son.....". Tracking, tactics and sinking ships:yeah: That is what it is about for me. If you want to influence your crew...avoid depth charges and attacking aircraft! They will love you for it.We'll have to file this under to each his own.

However, throughout history the best commanders were those that knew how to handle their human assets. I'd like to see the sub simulation (or any real military simulation) be a complete one, including my idea and the list of RRs improvements. To be honest with you, I find "human" breakdowns far more intriguing than mechanical ones. Combining the management of both would be awesome.

As far as "pixel people" goes, it's really no less or more real than "pixel ships".

[Rockin Robbins]

The problem with managing people is that individuals are involved. Motivating Ensign Jack might be best done with a hand on the shoulder and encouraging, while Machinist Bill needs a swift kick in the buttocks. A simulation trying to model this would be unacceptably arbitrary and become a cruel and unplayable parody of itself, sort of like sim city.

However fixing my list is a matter of objective measurement which can be handled with agreement as to whether the job was successfully accomplished or not. Of course I'm not limiting possible improvements to my list and I think crew interactions could be improved, but it would be with crew acting "by the book" and procedures being followed verbally as well as in deed. You might hit the range button on the stadimeter and a voice would state "range, mark!"

But sitting down with a low morale crew member and talking with him about his girl who sent him a dear John letter isn't my idea of a war game. I'd be very afraid of turning submarine warfare into playing Barbie and Ken.

[Historic]

Alot has been said about the sub but not much about the sea you play in so here my bit :)

Better weather fog banks driving rain so on sea weed oil on water things that add to making you feel your at sea(or use a mister with salt water in and a fan :rotfl:)
More detailed vessels people moving about and reacting to things happening (not just standing holding head lolz:)
Damage models made to fit the damage thats has happened fire marks bullets holes twisted metal
How the ships sink and move and react the sea state really needs work (no 0-33 knots in 2secs)
Sub get very dirty at sea ones in combat more so it would be great if that could be shown
Crew alway look the same no matter what happening state changes how crew look ie happy scared
Smoke needs to look and behave all the same (ie high wind fire smoke in sh4 moves fast but stack smoke remains the same :o)
Sub damage that is fixed at sea should still show that it has been damage till repairs at a port ie sea fixs are quick fixs so painting would not happen
Sound use different types of sound for same thing ie not the same sound played over and over again for dive dive dive
also on sound now this would be great but I feel a bit too costly to add to a game Voice command ie you say what you want to happen like make dive to 50ft make ready torp 1 so on now that would be fun :D
thought sidewinder game voice can be set up to work with sh4 to do that as I use it my voice just acts like pressing keys only thing it cant do is change heading :cry: or any tmo stuff. tho it drives my wife mad when I shout fire the torp god dam it.

[Platapus]

Since I am relatively new to SH4, does SH4 accurately model the sounds in the hydrophone to the point you can calculate rpm?

If not, that is what I would like to see. Manning the hydrophone station is something I could really get into.

[Platapus]

Stadimeter adjustments: you should have to input the height of the deck, cabin top, funnel or mast you want to measure into the stadimeter and then take the sighting, just like the real sub. ONI manual should contain multiple height measurements for each target.

Player control of ballast system. Just once I'd love to issue the command "Flood negative to the mark." Require trim dives to calibrate negative and incorporate specific gravity changes in the water to penalize not doing trim calibration dives.




Those two things would add so much to the game experience. :yeah:

[Aramike]

The problem with managing people is that individuals are involved. Motivating Ensign Jack might be best done with a hand on the shoulder and encouraging, while Machinist Bill needs a swift kick in the buttocks. A simulation trying to model this would be unacceptably arbitrary and become a cruel and unplayable parody of itself, sort of like sim city.

However fixing my list is a matter of objective measurement which can be handled with agreement as to whether the job was successfully accomplished or not. Of course I'm not limiting possible improvements to my list and I think crew interactions could be improved, but it would be with crew acting "by the book" and procedures being followed verbally as well as in deed. You might hit the range button on the stadimeter and a voice would state "range, mark!"

But sitting down with a low morale crew member and talking with him about his girl who sent him a dear John letter isn't my idea of a war game. I'd be very afraid of turning submarine warfare into playing Barbie and Ken.I'm not really talking about in depth conversations here... I'm talking about personalities.

For example, what made, say, Das Boot great was the tension in the characters. Add being able to actually experience that would be awesome.

Like I said, though - to each his own.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm not really talking about in depth conversations here... I'm talking about personalities.

For example, what made, say, Das Boot great was the tension in the characters. Add being able to actually experience that would be awesome.

Like I said, though - to each his own.


Well, I do not know how one could achieve that type of tension in a game. Well, at least not in today's games. Perhaps down the road. :up:

[coasterdigi]

Anyone who's played Left 4 Dead can appreciate what can be done with a bit of clever scripting. Each character has certain things they'll say in certain situations (the best, in my opinion, from the character Frank who hates everything, and whose lines are all along the lines of "I hate vans" or "I hate Ayn Rand," all in response to the things around him. IMO it's hysterical)

Then again, I think, given the subject matter, that it would be quite a bit of work for a relatively small gain in gameplay.

RR--I love the idea of player-controlled ballast! I'd love to have an opportunity to work as the dive officer during an ash can attack. I think that trying to keep the boat stable in those conditions would be a lot of fun.

[Rockin Robbins]

For example, what made, say, Das Boot great was the tension in the characters. Add being able to actually experience that would be awesome.
Nooooooooooooo!:eek: No hokey "Das Boot Experience" in fleet boats. I can't stand Mr Sniveler, whose function is to suffer ignobly throughout the movie, while being useless for anything aboard the boat. I can't stand that they are so focused on showing the crushing of spirits during a depth charge attack, they don't bother to do any evasive maneuvering.

I can't stand the phony procedure just so they can stupidly stick a periscope out of the water in the face of a charging DD for cinematic effect! Idiots! You don't raise the scope until the sonar man tells you everything happening around you. You would already know the bearing of the DD and the fact that he was charging quickly. Frankly you would be evading and not mucking with the useless periscope. The fake surprise bit turns my stomach.

There's some neat footage in Das Boot. The sub looks great. The bar scene is a lot of fun. The people are just a travesty. It's better than Hollywood. That and a dollar will make a down payment on a cup of coffee. Time is overdue for someone to make a good submarine movie. That ain't it.

You can't read the book without wondering what could have been.

[Armistead]

I don't need a lot of crew interaction, but would like to have a bigger selection to chose from. Would like to have one XO and COB.

Be nice if we could blow up ground targets.

Like to have a third view of my character.

Better more detailed missions.

[rditto48801]

I can think of a few things that would have been nice.
:roll:
Okay, make that a lot of things... whale of a thread ahead.


1: Separate buttons for Hold Fire and Fire At Will. It is annoying when a burning tanker is going to burn itself to the bottom and clicking the existing button just causes it to flash and stay at 'fire at will'. Also, separate buttons for Short, Medium and Long ranges... (like SH3)

2: Unless I have somehow missed it this whole time, I cannot find/interact with an actual TDC station. Toss in an actual option to go from Manual to Automatic aiming in a patrol would also be nice.

3: Both radar screens used for surface search radar doesn't seem right. :damn: One should be for air search radar, the other should be for surface search and have a switch to select between A-Scope and PPI modes when the later becomes available. That's how it was setup in good old SH1.
Half the fun in SH1 was watching the SD radar to see if the peaks would still be going a steady speed and require a dive, or if the peaks hold steady or beginning to get farther away, indicating the plane is just passing by in the area and not heading in the general direction of the sub.

4: Basic crew interaction elements, nothing major, just like in SH3 where it was possible to click on a crew member at a station to get the options/commands for their station.

5: Option to allow the crew to tamper with torpedoes, and horribly break their broken warheads so the are unbroken and actually work a little more often. Time period could affect the effectiveness of such changes, as farther into the war with the torpedo problems being more obvious and more 'ignored' by the higher ups, the more crews became aware of the problem and took efforts to remedy such problems themselves.
A Skipper could go by the book or throw the book overboard and have the crew rehabilitate a few fish into better wartime condition. In such a way, there could be a new passive skill that allows the person with said skill to halve the chance of a dud or premature detonation of any torpedo fired from the torpedo room they are stationed in, and another 'triggered' ability that allows for a single torpedo to be fired with no chance of failure (2 hour 'cool down' time be to much?)

6: More areas in the sub. I miss SH1 at times, one could go to the captain's quarters, with access to a calender showing sun up and sun down times, log book ship ID book, important radio reports (mission and such iirc). Makes me want to dig out SH3 again.

7: Most of the stuff in SH3 that for some reason was never put into SH4.

8: Better/more defined realism options.

9: 50. caliber MGs for AA, if it was realistic for some subs to carry them for AA weapons. I think I recall a pair of .50 calibers on a rack in the conning tower of a Purpoise class.

9B: When AA is manned and aircraft are near, seeing a few crew on the bridge with weapons. (I recall in SH3 of what looks like small MGs/large SMGs in the conning tower of one sub, and of the above thing of seeing MGs in the conning tower of an earlier US sub). If caught flat footed on the surface, might as well toss out as much lead and steel as possible before the crew has to scramble below deck, or worse, in a situation where diving might not be possible (shallow water, sub damaged and barely floating as it is, etc)

10: Smaller stuff on the water bottom, more sub types, props turning the right way, ships not having absurd acceleration rates, raising the radar antenna/radar depth, and tons of other stuff that had to be done by modders or that existed all the way back in SH1... there should be no need for such mods, as the game should have had/done such things in the first place. :doh:
It is sad when a sub sim over a decade old has a few more details about US sub operations than SH4 does... :-?
Also sad that people who mod in their free time get more done than a room full of professionals... although, modders don't have clueless reps from publishers insisting a game be messed up horribly because of their own misguided and money influenced ideas of how (and by when) things should be done...

11: More intelligent air traffic. I don't like avoiding an estimated 12-24 planes per hour... A sub should not encounter more aircraft in half a day than US subs encountered during intire patrols of WWII... I am sure the Japanese had planes on patrol, but NOT sending them every 15 minutes to just happen to fly on a course that gives them a 90% chance of flying exceptionally close to the sub...

12: Better ship traffic data... Annoying they mainly report stuff so far away it isn't possible, yet not stuff that happens to be close enough to have a chance to intercept.

13: Other subs. stumbling across a convoy in chaos and realizing there is anothe US sub fishing with high explosives, or stumbling across a Japanese Sub. I recall running into enemy subs in earlier SH games... seems odd that I'm the only sub in SH4... :shifty:
(at least as far as I can tell... I have yet to see any signs of other subs in SH4)
With #12, a very close convoy report could also indicate the presence of a nearby friendly sub. Hit a few merchants in the convoy, dive deep, get reports of torpedoes in the water and/or of explosions as the escorts hunting for you suddenly get really confused and panicked as one of them gets blown out of the water or as a few fleeing merchants also get torpedoed.
Would be freaky, hearing a DD above, followed by the feint sound of a fish and the DD going high RPMs, quickly followed by an explosion (or a loud thud and distant muffled sound of someone yelling profanities in English, maybe with an Australian accent, depending on location of patrol...)

14: As said before, the ability to roam the boat would be nice, wander the command area, or move around on the bridge... toss in a "Patton At Sea Mode", skipper pulls out a hand gun and shoots at any aircraft trying to strafe the sub... :88)

15: More freaking support (and official patches) for the game... I paid good money for SH4 Gold, I expect it to work, not to have to loose campaigns because my inability to play for days strait without sleep or alt-tabbing means I have to rely on a save system that will likely crash SH4 faster than ASW heavy task force ruins the day of an unlucky skipper...

16+: Some of the stuff already mentioned that makes sense, better missions, etc... and some stuff Rockin Robbins mentioned (with options for switching some things off or to a more basic mode for us less capable or more casual sub skippers)

Okay, I'm done venting like a sub that had a crew living off of beans for a week...

[Rockin Robbins]

It is sad when a sub sim over a decade old has a few more details about US sub operations than SH4 does... :-?
Also sad that people who mod in their free time get more done than a room full of professionals... although, modders don't have clueless reps from publishers insisting a game be messed up horribly because of their own misguided and money influenced ideas of how (and by when) things should be done...

There's the kind of excrement we can do without. If you love SH1 go play it. In the meantime we have the two best submarine simulations in the history of man, not by a little way but by a very, very long way.

Modders do not get more done than a room full of professionals. Without the professionals there would be no modders. As a matter of fact the professionals can do quite nicely without modders, thank you very much, and will if people insist in absurd inanities such as the above.

We have no "clueless reps." We have devs who choose to spend time in our forum who happen to care deeply about their game and share what they can with us. The business of game companies is to sell games at a profit. Without business and without profit you would be typing on a clay tablet and live to about the age of 35 before you died of old age. EVERY good thing in your life has come from business, money and profit.

Here we are looking for specific ideas to make a next generation game and you think the best way to accomplish it is to insult the makers. It's just like the stategy of defending wage earners by attacking all the wage payers. Not too bright. Let's portray those who produce our quality of life as a bunch of evil monsters! Let's act on it and insult them, penalize them if we can! Then let's wonder why the next game ignored our input. And why it's not even moddable.

[rditto48801]

My intention is not to insult game makers.

When I say 'rep', I mean those from a publisher that say how much time and money the devs have to make a game, and who say what is or is not allowed, of what must or must not be put into the game.

Sure, business is needed to bring us great games, but at the same time, said business can ruin games or limit their potential, especially when it sometimes seems the goal of selling a game is to make money, and making a good game is a secondary concern.

The only thing devs can be accused of is being only human, and being unable to achieve sometimes impossible goals and deadlines set by whoever is marketing the game, or of being unable to do certain things simply because they are not allowed to.

At least SH4 has made it to v1.5 and actually has people that still care about making it work.

And at least SH4 has Ubisoft involved, and not EA...

This whole thing reminds me of Simcity Societies, the devs want to make more patches, but EA has denied them permission...
Or UFO Afterlight, where one person (who I think it was one of the original programers) that worked on the game after support was mostly dropped, they managed to create a patch, they submitted it, and it was cleared for public release.
Or of some hospital 'sim' where the game was stable at least... as for support, last I checked, there wasn't any (making half the game next to unplayable past a certain point)

Beyond that, even after a reinstall, SH4 is still corrupting saves (even previously working ones), so I am not in much of a good mood at the moment, so my overall tone of the previous post was likely mistaken for what it was not meant to be.

[karamazovnew]

I don't agree with you there RR. I've just finished the TV long series and I was very impressed by how accurate they were in prezenting those DC runs. All of the maneuvers and decisions by the captain were correct and the tension was almost the same as I got a few times while being Hedgehogged by three DDs. To set things straight this was my final view on the movie....

Das Boot is, by a SH3 player's point of view, maybe the most boring movie ever made, akin to a very poor patrol. That's why we all love it. The long waits, the sickening rough weather, the rotting food, the annoying crew members (some of them) and only 3(or maybe 4, not sure yet) ships sunk. Hell you've just described my last patrol. But I do want those details in a subsim. Am I crazy? In one patrol in Sh4 i spent 30 minutes or more at 1x time copression just walking on the outer decks, pretending to climb the ladders, checking all the dials in the command room and admiring the waves.

[karamazovnew]

rditto48801, You're right there. I personally know a few members of the Game Testing team of SH4. They all said the same thing. That game was only half done when Ubisoft pushed the release date. They published an unfinished game. Considering what that romanian team achieved with SH3, I really feel sorry for them. You can actually see how broken the game was by trying to fire manually in the UM expansion :down:. I wonder if for SH5 they'll give them the chance to put all their passion(and ours:arrgh!:) into a finished game.

[martes86]

To be honest with you, I find "human" breakdowns far more intriguing than mechanical ones. Combining the management of both would be awesome.

Movies do human breakdowns. Action games, adventure games do too for the characters you play with (as they tell a story).
Simulations do data and condition breakdowns, and in certain cases, can tell you about History (not a story). You don't see the military simulators simulate human reactions, because hardcore simulation is not about that... is about replicating a visual environment, the nature physics, and the machine you're working with, but not the people that man them.
"The Sims" already emulates interaction and emotions, but that's an Arcade, some sort of a Big Brother simulator.

Besides, such a complicated aspect for development it represents, I'd prefer more "eye-candy" rather than an "ego" simulator. The crew we see in our boats is just a mere representation for the sake of interactivity, not to feel the boat alone and empty, and even let you give them orders and have them reply, but other than that... people already argue that more interior compartments modelled would be pointless, imagine how pointless would be modelling emotions and ability to speak to the crew, and not have those much more inmersive interiors done.

Cheers

[Armistead]

In the world of business money always comes first. They're not worried about releasing a game unfinished, because the fact is it doesn't hurt sells. They leave it to patching, modders, ect. When they feel the game has reached far as it can go, they stop support. Not long after that they tease us with another release.....and we will buy it. I think series games are dangerous, because they often leave out some stuff so they can place it somewhere else down the road. My sister who is a game designer says that many times they have completed work that could be added to a game, but is put on the shelf for the next one in the series.

[Aramike]

Simulations do data and condition breakdowns, and in certain cases, can tell you about History (not a story). You don't see the military simulators simulate human reactions, because hardcore simulation is not about that... is about replicating a visual environment, the nature physics, and the machine you're working with, but not the people that man them.That's just because that's what the scope of the simulation is.

All I'm saying is that I'd like to see the scope of the simulation expanded. It's not a question of right or wrong.

And yes, you do see REAL military simulators simulate human reactions.Besides, such a complicated aspect for development it represents, I'd prefer more "eye-candy" rather than an "ego" simulator. The crew we see in our boats is just a mere representation for the sake of interactivity, not to feel the boat alone and empty, and even let you give them orders and have them reply, but other than that... people already argue that more interior compartments modelled would be pointless, imagine how pointless would be modelling emotions and ability to speak to the crew, and not have those much more inmersive interiors done.That's why I would like both.

[FIREWALL]

More Ports:yep:

[Rockin Robbins]

Here's why crew interaction won't work. (Cut me some slack I'm leading up to something;)) We aren't US Navy enlisted men. First of all our vocabularies of profanity aren't large enough to get anybody to listen to us. If we showed up on a submarine, we'd pop out a "What a great submarine, nice to be aboard!" And they, not hearing one @#%%^ or @#$@# or @#$@##$^ in the whole sentence would just assume you were an idiot or a civilian (they are synonymous most of the time), chuck you overboard into the drink and then report you AWOL.

EVERYTHING we think goes on aboard a submarine is wrong. We wouldn't know an honest submarine conversation if it was dropped on top of us when we opened the conning tower hatch. If we DID encounter an honest submarine conversation, we wouldn't have the sense to believe it.

Tell you what. I have a reading assignment for you. Now, realize that this thing is long. It has something like 200 stories, but you'll never know that. One of three things will happen. You'll be in the hospital in traction with broken ribs from laughing too hard and we won't see you for several weeks here.

Or you corporate types will be horrified that such a bunch of idiots could possibly be part of something as serious as the US Military, and then if you're bright you'll realize you don't know squat about really managing. You'll also be missing for several weeks as you learn your job.

And then there's the misfits around here who will read the first article and realize they aren't a misfit after all. Yes, you're a rank amateur, but you are the raw material from which our submarine force created the greatest fighting men in the history of the world. You won't be back until you read the very last story.

Any way you cut it, I'm sending you on a one-way trip, at least for awhile. Just the titles will hit your laugh button, like "Telling Time by Progressive Putrification." If you come back you'll find my writing as boring as reading the back of a box of tampons, but that's a small price to pay for excellence, isn't it? So take a trip to the real world of tuna can boats and find out what was really going on in boat conversations. Then think: do I want my son or daughter exposed to that crap?:rotfl:

Introducing Bob "Dex" Armstrong, a crude, authentic After Battery Rat: a genius who uses the english language as a weapon to tear apart all notions of what you think went on aboard American diesel boats, and who will exercise your laughing muscles to the breaking point. Welcome to the After Battery (http://www.olgoat.com/substuff/abr.htm).

Warning: this is definitely mature material.

[Platapus]

Introducing Bob "Dex" Armstrong, a crude, authentic After Battery Rat: a genius who uses the english language as a weapon to tear apart all notions of what you think went on aboard American diesel boats, and who will exercise your laughing muscles to the breaking point. Welcome to the After Battery (http://www.olgoat.com/substuff/abr.htm).

Warning: this is definitely mature material.

When a story starts out with

At some point, one of your shipmates introduced you to the world of commercial romance.

You know it will be a winner. :yeah:

[Armistead]

My wife would disagree with you on the profanity part. I think computer gamers that deal with the frustration of windows, games, CTD's, ect...can cuss with the best of them.

[theluckyone17]

My wife would disagree with you on the profanity part. I think computer gamers that deal with the frustration of windows, games, CTD's, ect...can cuss with the best of them.Heh... you've had duds like me, huh? :up:

Introducing Bob "Dex" Armstrong, a crude, authentic After Battery Rat: a genius who uses the english language as a weapon to tear apart all notions of what you think went on aboard American diesel boats, and who will exercise your laughing muscles to the breaking point. Welcome to the After Battery (http://www.olgoat.com/substuff/abr.htm).

Warning: this is definitely mature material. Man... I'm supposed to be cleaning the house after lunch. Now how the heck am I gonna do that if I've got my nose stuck in a bunch of ol' sea dog stories? Wife's just gonna have to holler at me now... :salute:

[Platapus]

I find it interesting that there appears to be two camps for what should be added to SH4 (recognizing that many people have interests in both camps

1. The group that wants better graphical depictions

2. The group that wants more simulation

I wonder if any single software program can ever make both camps happy?

[Torplexed]

I wonder if any single software program can ever make both camps happy?

Some people probably won't be happy until they invent the first commercial "holodeck." At which point they'll promptly give their drab lives over to the thing and society will have a new addiction to cope with. :doh:

[Rockin Robbins]

Back to business:



An actual roster of enemy ships. Once you sink the Yamato, you should ideally not encounter it again. It should be child's play for the game to keep a list of all possible ships and cross them off as you sink them so they don't regenerate.
Air traffic that makes sense, relating realistically with airbase locations, or aircraft carriers out only far enough to return to a landing field or carrier. And numbers should make sense for the number of planes possible to maintain in the air from a given base.
Enemy air bases marked on our nav map. Updated as bases are eliminated or built during the war.
Steal Ducimus' evil airplanes. Within reason, airplanes should be able to see you when submerged, subject to depth, light, surface conditions and water clarity modifications.
Adaptive AI. You're off the coast of Honshu. The game schedules convoys through your area. You sink a ship. Convoys should avoid you for the foreseeable future, forcing you to move locations. It's not enough to do the RSRD schedule ships where ships really were. Good starting point only. The Japanese reacted to events and so should the game.
Relative maneuvering. You should be able to order a 30º left turn. You should be able at 90' to say take her down another 30'.
Realistic weapon loads on planes. Zeros didn't carry torpedoes.
Realistic air search radar. Give us the right scope for the right radar. Don't show a radar screen when the sub has no radar. Let us find the direction of the plane by rotating the antenna and using the edge of the antenna, but don't put the plane on the map or wrong radar scope.
Give us an intelligent crewmember to call out range and bearing of the plane. In conjunction with the wonderful radar, don't make us hover over the radar. Let us run our boat if we choose.
Have an intelligent sound man to let us select what target to track and actually give us appropriate continuous info on that target until we change our specification. If he's sweeping, how bout letting him find things and inform as a real crewman would?

And another list bites the dust. I'm sure there is lots I've left out. Notice that I'm putting gameplay first. Eyecandy is fine and adds immersion as long as it doesn't break the game. But when it interferes with gameplay everyone curses the eyecandy and it defeats its own purpose. Works good always must have priority over looks good or the game is a loser. The game must play well on an average gaming machine of the time it is released. That means the previous generation of video card, motherboard, and microprocessor. Requiring a $6000.00 machine to play is the same as not having a game for sale. On the other hand, it's not a bad idea to have the game ABLE to take advantage of a $6,000 machine to strut its stuff.

[Armistead]

Great list RR.....

[longam]

Some people probably won't be happy until they invent the first commercial "holodeck." At which point they'll promptly give their drab lives over to the thing and society will have a new addiction to cope with. :doh:

:haha:

What scares me is now that we have systems that can run what we need, want, wish for, simulations are fading fast...:-?

[JALU3]

Lets not forget independent screw control, for those pesky times your rudder is damaged.

[Rockin Robbins]

Lets not forget independent screw control, for those pesky times your rudder is damaged.


Four independent engines which can be individually selected for propulsion or charging batteries. (Naming them Matthew, Mark, Luke and John would be completely optional.)

[Platapus]

Four independent engines which can be individually selected for propulsion or charging batteries. (Naming them Matthew, Mark, Luke and John would be completely optional.)


Larry, Moe, Curley, and Shemp?

[Armistead]

Four independent engines which can be individually selected for propulsion or charging batteries. (Naming them Matthew, Mark, Luke and John would be completely optional.)



Someone named their cannons with those names......I would bet you know who......

[Armistead]

I wish your deck watch would act on a individual basis calling out ships in their sector. Be nice if a little picture icon with their name would pop up when they called out a ship. It would help with surface attacks. Having an icon that keeps up with one ship doesn't get it.