Are those bugs or what?

[Kubryk]

Hi,

two recent cases of me wondering what's going on.

Case 1
TC 64, plane spotted. Alarm! Crash dive as usual. When I heard explosion I went to outside view to see what's going on (sometimes my sonarman screams 'depth charges' and sometimes not, possibly he's deaf when they shoot behind me so my engines are blocking the sound).

Anyway, I was expecting to see white marks on water, instead I saw this:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4457/plane1.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7632/plane2.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2382/plane3.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4176/plane4.jpg

Apparently two of four enemy planes destroyed themselves. There was no axis ship or planes around, I didn't fire. So - did they collide with each other or did they just hit water?

In Doenitz's memoirs I read about case when plane went down beacuse he hit U-boat with his bomb, on a deck or flack gun, and the power of impact brought the plane down (yet the u-boat survived).

This is not my case since I was not hit. Or is it? Could blow of water take two planes down? Am I first one to experience such a weird thing? I'm playing stock patched to 1.4 BTW.


2. Case 2
I was expecting a tanker (BDU reporeted target moving fast, this could be only tanker I think). I was close, I went submerger towards the subject. He was closing, but suddenly he was 'keeping range'. Great, he turned. Surface the boat, ahead flank, turn roughly 60 degrees to port. The fog is heavy, visibility - 300-400m. After few sound checking by submerging I got lucky - I can see his water trail! (it's called 'wake' according to my dictionary).

In this fog I cannot do my usual perpendicular approach, I decide to shot immediately with fast steam torpedo. Open torpedo tube, I try to aim with my UZO few degreees off the target, fire! Torpedo impact! He got it right in the screws. Lucky me I think, now he will stop and I will finish him with a prepared shot. But no, he's is still doing at least 12 knots. Fire again, again I hit him on his rudder. Again - nothing. Fire nr 3, but this time I used external to see what's going on. He got it just into the screws, he should be dead stop. But nothing. I fired 4th time, again hit him in the same place, againg nothing.

Then I become restless and tried to scare him by sailing just beside him :) No effect. I then had to let him go, my boat lighter with 4 torpedoes missing.

This shouldn't happen, should it? Here are screens proving I'm not telling tales here :)

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7192/torp1.jpg
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4766/torp2.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8720/torp3.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/839/torp4.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2462/torp5.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3489/torp6.jpg

[GoldenRivet]

with respect to case one i have studied this.

the planes... they have suffered a mid air collision and crashed as a result of the damage suffered.

with respect to case two... my assumption is that you managed to blast ONE screw off of a ship which has TWO screws.

[Pisces]

with respect to case two... my assumption is that you managed to blast ONE screw off of a ship which has TWO screws.Yes, if you look at the picture with the rudder and explosion, and adjust the contrast/brightness/gamma you can see the contours of one screw. (appearantly intact) The other would be behind the hull. And a single screw would be right infront of the rudder in an openingof the hull. Different from what you see here.

[Kubryk]

with respect to case one i have studied this.
the planes... they have suffered a mid air collision and crashed as a result of the damage suffered.
Did it ever happen to you? How often I can count on something like that? Sadly I didn't get credit for that two planes and I should, 'cause my boat was the reason they attacked and thus vanished :)

Speaking about planes' behavior - in most cases they seem to fly over me and after that they go into attack pattern, thus giving me time to dive. But recently (it's still 1940 in my game) they attacked immediately, two times they missed, once they hit me. Is there a rule for that? How often would they attack on they immediate approach and how often would they just fly and only then proceed with attack?


with respect to case two... my assumption is that you managed to blast ONE screw off of a ship which has TWO screws.
Well you may be right, I think all 4 torpedoes ended in the same spot, it was really hard to aim, because of fog and after hit nr 1 because of his evasive moves. But still - ship with one screw should travel slower, and when I was right behind him, I traveled with 12 knots without ramming him, so his speed didn't change.

I still think that this might be a bug, strange thing was my WO shouted 'ship spotted' after I shot my first torpedo, and target's rear was clearly visible. My WO also misjudged distance and bearing - he stated that target was 200 m closer and 20-odd degrees to the left of his actual position. And no, this is not a case of corrupted save, I loaded my game and was playing before I even got the BdU report.

Anyway, I learned my lesson - in a case like that, if you really don't want to let the ship go, don't go directly behind him, go the the side for 200-300 m, then go back to parallel course. Then it will be easier to hit different spot of the ship. Few days later, in the same weather conditions, I was able to sink T3 using 2 shots - one stopped him down, second was to finish him when he was already helpless.

[sharkbit]

Kubryk:
Where are you seeing all these airplanes in 1940?

I spotted one near the Orkneys in 1940 but never saw another until May '41 off of Iceland and then again in 1942 off the coast of the U.S.
My current career in the Med(taking a break from my Atlantic career) in June '43 and they're like fireflies in the night.:o

I never worry about how they behave. My SOP when I hear "Flugzeug Geseichted!" is hit the "C" key, full rudder at 20m depth until I turn 30-40 degrees, and level off at 40m or so. I then hang out for about 30 minutes at slow ahead before I pop back up.

In the Med, I pretty much stay down all day now once the first airplane in the morning makes an appearance and run surfaced at night, but that is even getting hairy-so many airplanes are equipped with radar and Leigh Lights now. I don't think I'd survive very long without a radar detector.
:)

[Kubryk]

Kubryk:
Where are you seeing all these airplanes in 1940?
Second patrol in a row I'm hunting in AM53. This time BdU sent me to AM55, since I couldn't find anything decent there I moved back to AM53. I'm also active in AM02 and AM52, but AM53 is the juiciest.

In a very near future I will post a map with spotted shipping lanes and convoy routes, I found some useful patterns.

But risk is great, mostly because of planes (active even during night, when moon is up) and shallow waters.

One time I was cruising submerged on 20m when suddenly 'they're trying to ping us'. It took me 70 minutes to evade that damn corvette. I've read that when they ping you they are deaf. This wasn't true, I was speeding when he was pinging and when he was listening I was switching to 0,2 knots (RPM less than 100), and he was still deadly accurate with his attacks. I escaped only when I came up with a different tactic which I will also write about, maybe on weekend.

[Tribesman]

Did it ever happen to you? How often I can count on something like that?
I have had it three times so far , and also had a single hurricane pull up too late and end up craching into the sea .

[Leandros]

In Doenitz's memoirs I read about case when plane went down beacuse he hit U-boat with his bomb, on a deck or flack gun, and the power of impact brought the plane down (yet the u-boat survived).
Not only that - the pilots survived and were picked up by the U-boat they attacked.......:DL...(ref.: Roskill..)

[BulSoldier]

After the second shot you should have tried a magnetic pistol.If properly executed this shot probably would split the ship in half :). Keep it in mind, it is most effective when firind just behind them (giving the torp more time under the ship in order mag pistol to detonate).

[Kubryk]

After the second shot you should have tried a magnetic pistol.If properly executed this shot probably would split the ship in half :). Keep it in mind, it is most effective when firind just behind them (giving the torp more time under the ship in order mag pistol to detonate).
All 4 shots were magnetic. I tried to aim in a way that would result in a torpedo blow in a middle of a target. Due to heavy fog I could only see 15 rear percent of a target. I was happy I was able to hit 4/4 tries, but there was no visible effect of those 4 impacts.

Since I'm not-that-fanatic (yet :) ) I have 'dud torpedoes' option unchecked.

[Madox58]

Keep in mind,
That Stock 1.4 is still full of weirdness.
The damage models for Ships is one good example.
Aircraft doing the 'Kamakazi' for no reason is another.
And that's just the short list.