View Full Version : Wait a minute, whats the job description again?
SteamWake
05-13-09, 02:42 PM
The Obama administration has begun serious talks about how it can change compensation practices across the financial-services industry, including at companies that did not receive federal bailout money, according to people familiar with the matter.
Another step towards socialisim.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124215896684211987.html
AVGWarhawk
05-13-09, 02:52 PM
In some respects this part right here is the cause:
The initiative, which is in its early stages, is part of an ambitious and likely controversial effort to broadly address the way financial companies pay employees and executives, including an attempt to more closely align pay with long-term performance.
In my world, you are compensated for performance. These banks who did get Fed funding still got fat bonus checks. Just how does that work? Run a company into the ground and take the world with it....make millions in your personal account. Just does not add up. Furthermore, banks that did not get Fed funding are also included. They should be. Regulation apparently is the only way to go. These other banks left to their own devices could do the exact same thing. Socialism? Maybe on the surface. Smart? I think so. It is sickening to see a CEO waltz away from a dead company with millions.
CaptainHaplo
05-13-09, 07:20 PM
Its true I have no great love for the current President, but in this case, making performance part of the equation when pay is considered - makes sense. The only problem is that its the government doing it.
Had the government not been giving handouts - which started well before Obama, these types of institutions would have failed and those making the bucks would have been unemployed and unemployable. Civil suits would have followed, and they would have ended up with very little of the ill gotten gains. Thats the way the free market works.
Government may intend good - even some really lefty leftists intend good, but whenever its government involved - regardless of administration - it rarely turns out successful.
SteamWake
05-13-09, 08:01 PM
The only problem is that its the government doing it.
Thats the point.
Name me one efficent, profitable enterprise the US goverment is involved in.
Oh and performance based pay? Hey lets see some of that applied to the politicians!
UnderseaLcpl
05-13-09, 08:03 PM
CH is absolutely right. The government is far too stupid and clumsy to put this kind of reform into effect without exacerbating the harms their dubious "regulation" has already caused.
What I don't understand is the constant whining about how much executives get payed. Executive compensation is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of revenue and profit that these companies generate, and yet there are those who think that some companies might not have been bankrupted if executives had been paid less.
As with most things, the liberal solution to the bank conundrum is to make a big deal out of blaming someone whilst relying upon the inability of their constituency to understand large numbers, in order to pass what ultimately becomes a vastly more expensive and blameful piece of legislation.
I'm half-convinced that most liberals have absolutely no idea what a market is, and don't care to learn. The idea of mutually beneficial exchange may be alien to them, becuase they only care about themselves and instant gratification. Worse yet, they are led by people who know this.
They hate big business and monopolies, but they champion legislation that gets abused by big business to make monopolies, provided by the biggest monopoly of all, the federal state. More than anything, I think they completely lack definitions for "choice" and "incentive", because they don't want anyone else to have the former, and they don't have the latter.
edit- Thats the point.
Name me one efficent, profitable enterprise the US goverment is involved in.
Oh and performance based pay? Hey lets see some of that applied to the politicians!
This is also correct, and much more succinct.
Tchocky
05-14-09, 02:57 AM
I think most American politicians, commentators, and citizens only understand "socialism" as an insult.
They know what it is supposed to mean when used as criticism, that's about it.
Name me one efficent, profitable enterprise the US goverment is involved in.
Prison system.
So they want to regulate all pay of executives in a certain industry, i.e. the financial sector? If this is approved, what is to stop them from doing so in other sectors.
But who is not to say that government cannot regulate pay? They already do so with minimum wage laws, so there is precedence in this field already. However, I think a better system maybe to tie the pay of the highest paid in the company to that of the lowest paid in the company. For example the amount that the highest paid in the company cannot exceed X amount more, or X times more (whatever is found to be equitable, within reason (which this is government (I must be crazy to think the government limits itself to reason alone), so maybe I should actually put a number rather than a variable)) than the lowest paid in the company. Therefore, as the water rises and the wealth of the company grows, all boats rise, as the metaphore goes.
AVGWarhawk
05-14-09, 07:19 AM
Well then, amongst the responses here the government is not the entity to handle this. How then to handle these banks who live somewhere in fantasy land?
SUBMAN1
05-14-09, 08:14 AM
I think most American politicians, commentators, and citizens only understand "socialism" as an insult.
They know what it is supposed to mean when used as criticism, that's about it.
Prison system.
I understand you never grew up and like being told what to do because you want the government to be your mother. Over here, we like looking after ourselves and having freedom. Freedom to choose. Socialism is a never ending cycle of control and additional control until you cannot breath.
Over here, we are flabbergasted that you allow your government to keep making what we consider some of the dumbest and controlling laws on the planet. UK law making is entertainment in a way. It helps us understand what it is we 'don't' want.
-S
Tchocky
05-14-09, 08:33 AM
SUBMAN, I don't live in the UK. I'm Irish. Not British.
SUBMAN, I don't live in the UK. I'm Irish. Not British.
If you'd get rid of that "ruins of europe" location tag this wouldn't happen.
Tchocky
05-14-09, 11:02 AM
meh. I've been through this with SUBMAN before. He doesn't seem to know the difference.
Kapitan_Phillips
05-14-09, 12:13 PM
If you'd get rid of that "ruins of europe" location tag this wouldn't happen.
:-? Since when is the UK the only country in Europe?
:-? Since when is the UK the only country in Europe?
I didn't say it was.
And since we're on the subject; whence what came? Are you Euros so ashamed of your homeland that you have to hide it behind silly catch phrases?
Kapitan_Phillips
05-14-09, 12:29 PM
I didn't say it was.
And since we're on the subject; whence what came? Are you Euros so ashamed of your homeland that you have to hide it behind silly catch phrases?
No, I'm okay with being from the UK, and pretty much everyone knows I'm from there. Dont try to goad me.
Tchocky
05-14-09, 12:42 PM
It's from a play called Hamletmachine by Heiner Muller.
Are you Euros so ashamed of your homeland that you have to hide it behind silly catch phrases?
Simply put, no.
No, I'm okay with being from the UK, and pretty much everyone knows I'm from there. Dont try to goad me.
Unlike some folks (not you) I don't tend to pay attention to such things much beyond the post of the moment.
And what the hell do you mean by goading? I was no more goading you than you were goading me. Like I didn't know that there are more countries in Europe besides the UK. :shifty:
SteamWake
05-14-09, 12:58 PM
What on earth does your country of origin have to do with this discussion, other than your point of view.
Nice job boys :doh:
OneToughHerring
05-14-09, 01:11 PM
I didn't say it was.
And since we're on the subject; whence what came? Are you Euros so ashamed of your homeland that you have to hide it behind silly catch phrases?
Not ashamed so there it is, under the avatar then. Mind you I'm not overtly proud of it either, they didn't give me chance to choose my country of birth.
Not ashamed so there it is, under the avatar then. Mind you I'm not overtly proud of it either, they didn't give me chance to choose my country of birth.
Well maybe not Herring, but you do choose to remain there.
OneToughHerring
05-14-09, 01:36 PM
Well maybe not Herring, but you do choose to remain there.
Yes and you remain in the US.
Yes and you remain in the US.
Yep. I wouldn't live anywhere else.
Kapitan_Phillips
05-14-09, 01:51 PM
Unlike some folks (not you) I don't tend to pay attention to such things much beyond the post of the moment.
And what the hell do you mean by goading? I was no more goading you than you were goading me. Like I didn't know that there are more countries in Europe besides the UK. :shifty:
The way you wrote it insinuated that "The Ruins of Europe" meant the UK.
Whatever, arguing with you isnt how I particularly want to spend my night anyway.
OneToughHerring
05-14-09, 02:04 PM
Yep. I wouldn't live anywhere else.
The Americans who have left the US sound very different when comparing to people who still call the US their home.
The way you wrote it insinuated that "The Ruins of Europe" meant the UK.
No I meant that "The Ruins of Europe" is not a very descriptive location therefore it forces folks to guess and that getting annoyed when someone gets it wrong isn't very fair.
Clear enough?
The Americans who have left the US sound very different when comparing to people who still call the US their home.
There are almost 300 million of us that call the US their home. How many ex-Americans have you talked to?
OneToughHerring
05-14-09, 03:22 PM
There are almost 300 million of us that call the US their home. How many ex-Americans have you talked to?
Several, all with advanced degrees in their respective fields. Edumacated idjeets. :)
Oh so power is in the numbers eh? That must mean that Chinese and Indians should have the say on this planet. No? Why not?
And just to be sure, with Indians I mean people from India, not your 'Indians' whom you probably exclude from that 300 mil.
SteamWake
05-14-09, 04:14 PM
Several, all with advanced degrees in their respective fields. Edumacated idjeets. :)
Eggheads :rotfl:
yea we know how they roll.
CaptainHaplo
05-14-09, 05:44 PM
Exactly how is the prison system financially profitable? Last I checked, my tax money was still being used for it...
Platapus
05-14-09, 06:02 PM
And just to be sure, with Indians I mean people from India, not your 'Indians' whom you probably exclude from that 300 mil.
We .. uh.. took care of that Indian Prob.. uh I mean the Indian issue.
Here is a bit of advice. If you ever find yourself between an expansionist country and a coast... move!:D
Several, all with advanced degrees in their respective fields. Edumacated idjeets. :)
Well they're apparently not so idiotic as to not go along with a strident America hater such as yourself in your own country.
Oh so power is in the numbers eh?
No, that is not what I said at all. I just think that if 300 million people like something that just "several" people don't, then maybe the former has the more accurate opinion of that particular thing?
That must mean that Chinese and Indians should have the say on this planet. No? Why not?
Wait, are you saying that they don't? Two major world social and economic powers, one a permanent member of the UN security council, don't have a say on this planet? Talk about a straw man argument.
And just to be sure, with Indians I mean people from India, not your 'Indians' whom you probably exclude from that 300 mil.
Now why would I exclude myself Herring? BTW we like to call ourselves "Native Americans" not "Indians".
OneToughHerring
05-15-09, 08:00 AM
Well they're apparently not so idiotic as to not go along with a strident America hater such as yourself in your own country.
Eh...what? Yea sure...:06:
No, that is not what I said at all. I just think that if 300 million people like something that just "several" people don't, then maybe the former has the more accurate opinion of that particular thing?So you are saying that the US should lose all priviliges it has based on it's socio-economic and political status in the world, leadership of Nato etc. included? I think I actually agree with you on that.
Wait, are you saying that they don't? Two major world social and economic powers, one a permanent member of the UN security council, don't have a say on this planet? Talk about a straw man argument.No I don't think they have the proportioned power that they would be entitled to. Just look at how for example China has to suffer because of a US based recession.
Now why would I exclude myself Herring? BTW we like to call ourselves "Native Americans" not "Indians".Oh yea like "one eight Cherokee" or something like that? "Great granddaddy raped a native so that's why I call myself a Native American". :)
SteamWake
05-15-09, 09:53 AM
Prisons are profitable? Well hell heres your chance !
San Quenton is up for sale !
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2251374/posts
Oh yea like "one eight Cherokee" or something like that? "Great granddaddy raped a native so that's why I call myself a Native American". :)
Not that it's any of your damn business Sonny, but my great grandfather MARRIED that "native" just like my Grandfather MARRIED my "native" Grandmother. All of them BTW were born here in this country as was I so we're ALL "natives".
So what's next, are you going to accuse my family of miscegenation?
SteamWake
05-15-09, 10:39 AM
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/derail.jpg
CaptainHaplo
05-16-09, 10:55 AM
No offense August - but I don't have but a tiny (I am talking like 1/128th) part American Indian blood in me.
But I am a Native American. I was born here in the US, and thus by definition am a "native" american.
The term is nothing more than PC bull. Whats wrong with all of us just being freakin AMERICAN?
Last time I checked, you cut any man or woman of any race and they bleed red. If you live here and are a legal citizen (natural or naturalized), your American, period.
I am so sick of people having to be "Irish-American", "African-American", "Native-American" or any other "hyphonated" American. Whats that make me? An "American-American" for pete sake?
I got no problem saying I am simply an American. If someone inquires, I have a mainly mixed German, Scottish and Irish heritage. But I am not a "German-Scottish-Irish-English-Indian-American"!
What lunacy.
Thankfully, I am fairly confident August, that your just fine with being called simply "American". And to that I'll lift a virtual drink any day, regardless of any man's "heritage".
Platapus
05-16-09, 10:58 AM
The Hyphen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbOIg1Wy9Zo
http://www.theodoresworld.net/archives/2006/03/the_hyphen_by_john_wayne_and_t.html
"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.... A hyphenated American is not an American at all... Americanism is a matter of the spirit, and of the soul...The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans...each preserving its separate nationality.... The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans.... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American."
Theodore Roosevelt
Of course Teddy was not talking about them indians
I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian.
So you have to take what he says with a grain of salt or two
If someone inquires, I have a mainly mixed German, Scottish and Irish heritage. But I am not a "German-Scottish-Irish-English-Indian-American"!
What lunacy.
Thankfully, I am fairly confident August, that your just fine with being called simply "American". And to that I'll lift a virtual drink any day, regardless of any man's "heritage".
No offense taken at all Hap. You're just like the rest of us: American Mutts. I firmly believe that is the true source of our strength and all these attempts to hyphenate and qualify us into neat little racial categories are nothing more than attempts to divide and conquer us. Regardless of where your people came from if you were born here you are as "native" as my Great Grandmother.
TR was right in that hypenated Americanism is the path to national ruin. I'm not that pleased with the other quote that is being attributed to him (first I have heard of it actually) but I do understand that one has to take it in the context of the times in which he said it. After all there were still people alive at that time who had survived "Indian" attacks. We're talking about a man that did a lot to improve race relations in America.
Max2147
05-16-09, 11:48 AM
My personal experiences in traveling abroad is that the government has very little do do with the way people live. It's all about local cultures, norms, and most importantly the people. I'd rather live in a land full of happy, friendly, and laid back people under a dictator than live with a bunch of unfriendly dog-eat-dog workaholics in a democracy.
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