wow gwx 3.0 is hard

[iven72]

aattacking a convoy is suiscide even in 1939. There is no way to keep from being pinged all the time and no escape :( So i guess with this mod you have to look for single ships. bummer whats the point of convoys then. I mingh have to uninstall and play the stock version of the game :(

[Jaman]

Where are you trying to attack that ´39 convoy?. Let me guess, east British coast, isnt it?. Dont try, in so shallow waters its imposible to evade the enemy sonar, not matter what you try. If you still feel the need to engage, try attacking at night from long range (>=3000m) so you still have the time to turn around in the surface and run while the escorts go berserk trying to find you.

If you are trying in deep waters (>100m), just move deeper, keep changing course and depth while follow the manouvers that you can find on the manual. Eventually you´ll get of the hook.

Dont give up on GWX yet, its a great mod.

EDIT: Be careful about what i said on night attacks and surface escape, if an escorts fire a flare on your direction, you´ll be toasted. To avoid this keep the hull down the water and show only the turret on surface, also while moving like that stick to 1/3.

[AVGWarhawk]

Although I was a singleton hunter the convoys can be had it you attack with your stealth. It is obtainable.

Of course what am I saying I was the founding member of the "Second Patrol You're Dead Club":oops:

GWX is a great mod and once you cut your teeth on a convoy with success all will be well.

[iven72]

I have never been willing to get that close to warships on the surface.
Still i was in 130m water in north sea and kept changing directions and they would just circle me and pingng me then keep depth charging me till dead. I hve yet to get away from a convoy :(

[Jaman]

I have never been willing to get that close to warships on the surface.
Still i was in 130m water in north sea and kept changing directions and they would just circle me and pingng me then keep depth charging me till dead. I hve yet to get away from a convoy :(
Any idea how many DD out there?. Against two of them (or more) things gets nasty.

[iven72]

There were 2 there usually is from a convoy

[Jaman]

Well, then my best advice is...try to get a torpedo into one of them. Wait until you see an opening and get into periscope depth. Better if you can shot a salvo of at least three, use a wide spread to ensure one hits.

Its dangerous, but better than keep dodging charges for hours, and since you cant go deeper than 130, it may be worth a try.

[TarJak]

'Tis not impossible if you know how to make the approach, attack and escape without being picked up a DD.

All manouvering other than evasion of close quarters DC attacks should be done as stealthily as possible. I nomally try to set up an approach to the convoy on a 45deg angle from the front. This means you need to be in a good position to start off.

If you find yourself on the tail of a convoy, then head out of visual range to one of the flanks at high speed then try to overtake the convoy so as to be in a position to wait for it to come to you so you can manouvure slowly and quietly to set up the shot.

Up to 1942 at night I usually make the final approach decks awash at dead slow, so as to make as little wake as possible.

If I get detected, then I crash dive and try to get down to 200m or so as quick as possible then go silent. If I make a surface attack I turn and head out away from the convoy as fast as I dare until the torps hit then I hit flank and get up speed before diving.

If they don't pick me up then I go for the shot either surfaced or at PD depending on what kind of escort presence there is. If you are at PD don't leave your scope up for longer than abour 20 seconds to make your targetting observations. When you are close to the enemy ships they might see your scope wake and go alert bringing the escorts down on you.

Once the torps are loosed I get as deep as I dare as fast as possible, then go silent and only hit flank or other speeds if I get picked up and have DC's close enough to make it uncomfortable. If I get it right then the escorts are merrily dropping DC's where I was and I head out the back of the convoy at silent running no more than 2kt or 100rpm.

If I still have torps I wait until I can't hear the convoy any more and then surface and make another end around so I can set up a 2nd or even 3rd attack.

If you approach it systematicly with stealth and guile the escorts actually have little chance of finding you before 1942. After then the game changes significantly as they have better sensors, radar and the number of planes increases your chances of being a dead Kaleun.

Even in '44 and '45 it is still possible to make successful attacks on even heavily escorted convoys and TF's. It is much much harder though as they are usually very difficult to shake off in these years.

Here are a few golden rules:



Stay out of shallow waters and only approach when you've got somewhere to escape to.
Always plan your attacks before committing to anything.
Don't be greedy. But pick the biggest targets to maximise your chances of a hit. I normally only fire at one ship with all four tubes.
If detected go as deep as you can as fast as you can then go silent.
Be quiet.
Don't get spotted.
Dive and turn away as soon as you have fired your torps. Hanging around to look at the damage you do is how to get killed.
If you've made a kill and are being hunted aggressively don't panic and try to escape with speed. They will always be able to outrun you.
Be careful of escorts that might hang around after the convoy has moved on. Never just surface use your scope to check for escorts before surfacing after an attack.
Be patient and take your time. Many times i've ended up dead through being in a hurry. If you don't have time to finish an attack in one sitting then save whilst on surface and come back to the attack when you do have time.



Gute Jagd!:arrgh!: And be less aggressive.

[Pepe le Moko]

In 1939 and 1940, escorts are really not that good, so i think you must be doing something wrong. They should be considered green due to their lack of experience and they're not a serious threat at all.

Don't get me wrong, i got killed a few times too during that period but it is usually because i did something stupid and got punished for it.

[Jaman]

...lots of wisdom...
I coudnt agree more.

[Sag75]

hello, this post just arises me this question:

is the GWX3.0 AI different by GWX2.1 ?

..because 2.1 is hard too, so I was guessing if there are differences, if any..

[TarJak]

No 2.1 AI was left as was for 3.0 IIRC.

[Jimbuna]

It is doable.....TJ's script (I wonder where that came from LOL) should see you through.

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/wacko.gif

[Leg]

Since in the '39 there were not radars, attack at night... darkness is your friend!

[nikbear]

Can't ask for a better teacher than TJ,follow his advice and you won't go far wrong,the only thing I will add is time,if you see a convoy and decide to attack,check how much game time you have to play with,cause remember that you can't save when under water and as TarJack pointed out,convoy attacks rely on you being patient and not panicking,rule of thumb I always allow at least 2 R/T hours to attack a convoy,usually more cause there always one stubborn bastid who hangs on to your tale and seems to hear your every move,even Bernard farting:har: Best of luck with your next attack:yeah:

[BulSoldier]

I guess you have been extremly unlucky with the convoy escorts.I play gwx3.0 with OLCgold and in '39 is quite easy to get close to convoys with decks awash, even i manage to get 2 attack for one night. I too have been "lucky" enough to get early in war to some quite good DD crews witch bombed me for more than hour.

I use simple tactic (mentioned above) just get ahead of convoy and creep forward and keep your course 90 degrees of theirs.If there arent side escorst or for some reason i see fit to use surface attack i dont hasitate(spl?) Since it gives you much more speed than underwater creeping and you dont have to worry about asdic(active sonar).However when i get close enough to attack i usualy get to PD for the actual attack.

I would also suggest you make ssure when you are depthcharged to have 20-30 meters clearens from then sea floor since DC explode when hit the sea floor and even if they miss you you can get hurt just by being close to the bottom.

[GoldenRivet]

aattacking a convoy is suiscide even in 1939. There is no way to keep from being pinged all the time and no escape :( So i guess with this mod you have to look for single ships. bummer whats the point of convoys then. I mingh have to uninstall and play the stock version of the game :(

what was your ordered speed? anything faster than ahead slow is a DD Dinner Bell

what was your ordered depth? The Deeper you go the better

were you rigged for silent running? this will stop all nonessential equipment on the boat making you silent or nearly silent

you should have absolutely no trouble evading DDs at 100+ meters in 1939 if you play your cards right

[FIREWALL]

GWX wasn't made as an Arcade mod. :haha:

[Murr44]

I would suggest reading the appendicies (sp?) in the GWX .pdf manual. There is a really informative section in there on how to conduct successful day and night time convoy attacks and how to evade escorts too. I would also suggest that you turn on "Map Updates" in the realism section if you haven't done this already. Having Map Updates on can really help you steer clear of escort vessels as it shows you their Asdic (sonar) ranges and arcs.

Yes GWX can be frustrating :damn: at first but I think that if you stick with it you will be glad that you did.

Good luck...:)

[danurve]

Hey, could someone tell me where these uber-destroyers are? They shure don't seem to be of the East coast of England. Intercepted a small convoy headed due south about 200km west of Hartlepool late 40. Went under with maybe 30m to the bottom head to head course. Took out the lead escort and fished to large merchants. Rudder slightly to port, not silent running, fished another frieghter, fished the escort comming in from the west at around 400m. Still loading tubes - #5 cripples the last escort, matched the convoys mean course - finish off the last escort. Surfaced and picked them off like a hungry wolf in a barn yard. Walked away with 57+, ditched the speed boat but took some light damage, pissin speed boat. 2 duds, that was irritating. Then I get transferred to Loreint. Great, I hate that port.

[TarJak]

It is doable.....TJ's script (I wonder where that came from LOL) should see you through.

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/wacko.gifNo be LESS agressive!:har:

If you find you are in a situation where you can't dive deep, (130m isn't really enough but as others have posted it is doable) You should really think twice about attacking. I have done many attacks in water less than that but usually end up on the bottom in a tube full of holes. I sometimes luck out and live to tell the tale.

that said it is possible but you probably need to take out some of the escorts first so instead of diving stay at PD and when the DD's take their attack runs wait until they are <800m away before firing. Make sure your torps are set to magnetic pistol at about 2m depth.

Your chances of survival are far lower doing this but at least you feel like you are doing something.:haha:

I guess the other thing is to make sure that you start off with all the help you can get turned on, save regularly so you can learn what the DD's are likely to do in certain situations. This is what i've done over several years of playing and yet I still get the odd surprise and learn something new.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Don't become so fixated on your target that you throw caution to the wind.

If you attack without a method of escape, nature will usually take its course.:ping:

[ltforce]

GWX wasn't made as an Arcade mod. :haha:


AGREED!!!!

I play on 94% realism (only weapons officer) and I love playing with GWX makes it so much more in depth and don't have a hard time, May 1941 and haven't been sunk....couple close depth chargings but that's about it:DL and this is my 3rd campaign.

SH3 especially with GWX requires a lot of patience and planning to perform an attack especially on a convoy and if you haven't had much Sub sim experience take your time and you wil get it...

[BulSoldier]

Yes especialy in 41 when I was spoiled by the easy pickings in 39-40.The last time i barely escaped with my life.All the tubes were destroyed , both diesel and electric enjines damaged.I think the escorts just resumed course after 1,5 hours of bombing, though their DC could have ran out aswell.

I had to float motionless for few more hourse around 220meters below surface before my electric engines were repaired.Not to mention the heavy flooding in the torp room that never actually stoped until i surfaced...

[ryanglavin]

the mediteranean has good pickings, i am on i think a 75% dif (i'm not using manual, i have my wep officer, and i use free aim for screenshots), the water is usually around 200M so its safe for escape and also going to the bottom and repairing (always reminds me of das boot), and alots of task forces, i just got my second battleship. I started my career in 1940 on my ixb and haven't left since :)

[meduza]

the mediteranean has good pickings, i am on i think a 75% dif (i'm not using manual, i have my wep officer, and i use free aim for screenshots), the water is usually around 200M so its safe for escape and also going to the bottom and repairing (always reminds me of das boot), and alots of task forces, i just got my second battleship. I started my career in 1940 on my ixb and haven't left since :)
The Med is great! It is filled with troop ships. In 10 patrols (1942-43) I sank 6 Aquitanias, and watched Lutwaffe sink the 7th. :arrgh!:
I only saw a few TFs.

It is hard. There are very few single merchants, they all sail escorted or in convoys. Usually I avoid convoys late in the war, but there's no such luxury in the Med.

[Bosje]

something i have not found in this thread so far (possibly because I read too quickly) is another golden rule to add to all the wisdom which is being shared:

-don't use time compression

if they COULD detect you, using time compression will make it so that they WILL detect you. Try going through the whole attack in real time, it's more intense, more exciting and, well, it helps :)

happy hunting :salute:

[BulSoldier]

200 meters, i stoped considering them safe after mid 40 in an unfortunate encounter with some naughty british sailors.

I am most confident when the bottom is some 20-30 meters below my crushdepth :)

[BasilY]

aattacking a convoy is suiscide even in 1939. There is no way to keep from being pinged all the time and no escape :( So i guess with this mod you have to look for single ships. bummer whats the point of convoys then. I mingh have to uninstall and play the stock version of the game :(

You must be doing something wrong, I hunt Convoys well into 1943 with GWX3.0 100% realism. IXB/IXC can dive safely to 230 meters, you know. At that depth, you can easily evade DC's even if they know where you are. A few wiggles as the DC's exploding, and you will loss the DC within 10 passes.

[meduza]

-don't use time compression

if they COULD detect you, using time compression will make it so that they WILL detect you. Try going through the whole attack in real time, it's more intense, more exciting and, well, it helps :)

I've never noticed that high TC makes you more detectable. It only gives you less time to react if you are detected.

My maximum TC when being hunted is increased with SH3Commander from default 8x to 32x, and I use it very often, during the approach and evasion. I never had any problems.

[meduza]

IXB/IXC can dive safely to 230 meters, you know.
Can't they go even deeper? With VIIC I went almost 290m during one very nasty attack. The hull started to crack :D, and I raised her a few metars and survived.

[BulSoldier]

IN my current career i havent checked the crushdepth of the boats and i wasnt very comfortable going deeper than 150m with my VIIB. That is until the need to survive overcome the fear from extreme depths :)

[TigerShark808]

iven72,

GWX 3.0 is a great mod. The reason its so great IMO is because it is so hard. You have to really think about what your doing out there.

As far as exscaping the ping monster..i just simply dive as deep as I can and slow to two knots. That will get you out of alot of trouble. Unless there a grip of escorts up top. And if thats the case..well.. then say your prayers. :yep:

[TigerShark808]

Well when running "random crush depth" under commander, I just take the boat as deep as I can on my first tour and wait for the pipes to spring a leak. Then I know from that point on just how deep I can take the boat. been past 200meters in a VIIC plenty of times.

[Bosje]

yeah i took my old VIIc off the scales once, something like 280 meters while we had already sustained some damage, cool stuff

[lostsm]

are the max depths of the subs hard limits as in once you pass that, you're dead or is there some sort of little leeway allowed (iirc sh3commander can randomize it, but i was wondering w/o that option)

i can't recall ever going so deep that it was in the 'red' on the depth tool

[TarJak]

I regualarly dive to 200m immediately after firing my eels in a VIIC. If I have a VIIC/41 I go to 240m this never causes too much concern unless I am carrying damage.

When you pass the "crush depth" of your boat, you will start taking damage until you get the boat up out of the danger zone. The crush depth will reduce the more damage you take so the shallower you will need to go to get out of trouble.

I had a situation in a VIIC where normally I can get to 240m without too much trouble. I'd been hit by some rounds from an aircraft that surprised my boat on the surface. After evading them I was lining up on my next target fired my eels then dived for cover to evade the escorts, got to 180m silent running and the lights started to flicker and flash (first indication that you have reached your crush depth.

AS the DD's were circling above I took advantage of their deafness after some DC explosions and blew tanks and hit full forward to take the boat up to 140m which I assumed would be safer. Luckily for me they didn't hear that noise or mistook it for our demise and about 15 mins later left the scene to rejoin their convoy now minus two ships thanks to the eels doing their work. :arrgh!:

[Toolworx]

I regualarly dive to 200m immediately after firing my eels in a VIIC. If I have a VIIC/41 I go to 240m this never causes too much concern unless I am carrying damage.

When you pass the "crush depth" of your boat, you will start taking damage until you get the boat up out of the danger zone. The crush depth will reduce the more damage you take so the shallower you will need to go to get out of trouble.

I had a situation in a VIIC where normally I can get to 240m without too much trouble. I'd been hit by some rounds from an aircraft that surprised my boat on the surface. After evading them I was lining up on my next target fired my eels then dived for cover to evade the escorts, got to 180m silent running and the lights started to flicker and flash (first indication that you have reached your crush depth.

AS the DD's were circling above I took advantage of their deafness after some DC explosions and blew tanks and hit full forward to take the boat up to 140m which I assumed would be safer. Luckily for me they didn't hear that noise or mistook it for our demise and about 15 mins later left the scene to rejoin their convoy now minus two ships thanks to the eels doing their work. :arrgh!:



I just took my IXB to 240 meters and still could have gone more.

I was evading some DD's and just did the hard run when the DC's where going off and changing course lots and managed to escape.

I am still to get a successful attack on an escorted convoy with gwx 3.0

I found 4 ships un escorted and went to town on them then realised :nope: They where neutral :o . I have learnt to check the flag. if in doubt I let it go.:salute:

[meduza]

I'm in Dec 1943 and I avoid attacking convoys if I can't go at least 270m deep. Anything less than that is unsafe.

My last DiD career ended in mid 1943 because I attacked a convoy with damaged boat, and couldn't go below 170m.

Next month I'm getting a fully equipped VIIC/41 which should go well below 300m. :rock:

[Jimbuna]

I found 4 ships un escorted and went to town on them then realised :nope: They where neutral :o . I have learnt to check the flag. if in doubt I let it go.:salute:

Wise strategy :DL

[melnibonian]

aattacking a convoy is suiscide even in 1939. There is no way to keep from being pinged all the time and no escape :( So i guess with this mod you have to look for single ships. bummer whats the point of convoys then. I mingh have to uninstall and play the stock version of the game :(

In 1939 and 1940 I usually attack convoys on the surface. The Escorts are not that good and you have high maneuverability when you're on the surface. For such an attack to be a success you have to follow these simple rules:

1. Wait until is dark enough so that it is difficult for the escorts to see you visualy.
2. Always approach at decks awash in order to minimise your visible cross section.
3. Try to approach at an angle of approximately 45deg towards the convoy and pass behind the nearest escort.
4. As soon as you've penetrate the escort shield line up the boat and fire your torpedoes in quick succession. Try to make them hit at the same time if possible
5. After the torpedoes are fired turn around quickly and fire onle last shot from the aft.
6. Now depending on the weather conditions you can either go away at full speed on the surface or dive deep and escape silently.

[BulSoldier]

Today after oblitareting small convoy i surfaced only to find i took damage from debrees and lifeboot witch i hit at some point :D That was quite a surprise for me...

[Toolworx]

I just found a small convoy and decided to "be more Aggressive" :arrgh!:
So i surfaced about 3 k out and took out the escort ship with the deck gun and two off the ships.
I ended finishing the other two with the deck gun and heavy Flak.:rock:
In all five kills with no eels sent.:up:

[Murr44]

Yesterday (Oct. '41) I went after a small 3-ship convoy in CO51 in the dark. Targetted the small freighter in the center. Approached at flank speed with decks awash. Still wasn't seen at 2500m so I submerged & reduced speed to slow. Launched a T1 at the small freighter and then targetted the Black Swan that was trailing her. Shot another T1 at her and went deep (100m+). Both eels hit their marks & that small freighter and HMS Woodcock suddenly became artificial reefs.:D Easily evaded the surviving Black Swan.

[Toolworx]

Got my first Escorted convoy kills last night.:salute:
there was about 4 escorts so I went ahead and went to 12 meters deep and all stop and just waited. an hour or two later I got the first reports of ships sighted.
I just kept waiting almost got detected a few times:o there was about 20 ships in the convoy I picked a large merchant and let a salvo of 4 eels go.
and set depth to 60 meters and just slipped away. I got 2 ships totaling about 10k.

Yea I could have got more but I was not going to get caught this time.:arrgh!:

Sorry I am not good at doing detailed reports.

[Bosje]

the convoy I just attacked in september '41 already had some radar-equipped escorts, judging by how I kept having corvettes running behind me on the surface, 200 meters behind my stern, following every turn I made, in very thick fog/rain (no visual sightings from crew, no gunfire from corvettes, just a look behind and a heart attack when I was staring right at a warship's bows :)

so from there on, surface attacks are more of a challenge. then again, i remember doing a successful surface run in bad weather in late '43. they weren't paying attention that day or something, very cool.

so judge the situating carefully and be aware of their and your capacities. convoy battles in the mid-war are the best thing in GWX for me, challenging but rewarding. as some said before, if you are having trouble with convoys in the early war, you're doing something wrong. practice makes perfect, keep at it

Bosje

ps i really must confirm what i said about using TC. when all is quiet around you, it's not such an issue (i.e. the approach may be done at TC) but when the enemy is 'on alert', things change. I spent last night hunting single ships off the US coast and every single time, after my first torpedo hit, when leaving the periscope up, they started firing at my periscope head when i used time compression. every single time.
While i can stay in real time for an hour, monitoring the effect of the torpedo through the periscope without trouble... as soon as i use TC to speed up the sinking they detect my periscopes.
same goes for escorts. after they lost me and turned away, use TC and they sometimes come back
anyway...