Wordwar to begin this summer

[Skybird]

Some of those of us who remember the era of tabletop games and paper-and-counter cosims, may know where to sort the title "World in Flames". Since several years the computer verison has been under very public developement by a dedicated team of enthusiastic WiF-players, their forum following and discussing the processes is more active and voluminous than most forums for already released games.

What has been a very long wait, finally seems to come to a happy end this summer. :DL

They used to give monthly, very comprehensive updates on what they had done the past 4 weeks, how it went, what has changed, and what is planned for the next month.

According to their update for April, posted on April 2nd, the release date of the commercial full version is July 27th.

2009, that is. :D

WiF has been probably the most famous WWII era grand scale strategy cosim there have been. There were even bigger ones (GDW's 12-part series), but probably none as popular as this Australian title, WiF, that is played by some people since 20 years, constantly. If WWII and strategy is your thing, gentlemen, then mark this date in your calender: July 27th, 2009.

[Torplexed]

I guess I can put all this out for paper recycling then. :D

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic214664_md.jpg

[Rockstar]

Sorry, but 27 July has already been set aside as the day the world comes to an end. :D

I loved those board games my favorite was Squad leader and Wooden Ships Iron Men.

[Blacklight]

I've been watching Matrix Games for this release for ages !

I have a copy of the board game. It's fantastic, but it takes an understanding wife and a cat free environment to play as it will be set up on your game table for a good month or two (or maybe three).

[UnderseaLcpl]

Thanks for reminding me that I have this great game in my closet, along with PanzerBlitz, Afrika Korps, Diplomacy, and even Axis and Allies, gathering dust because no one I know will play it with me. I can't even get anyone to play Risk.
On the other hand, lame-ass games like Scene-It and Yahtzee seem to find their way into the mix consistently. If it weren't for Texas Hold'em, I'd probably go insane.:damn:

[Skybird]

Maps cover all the world.

3000+ different, individual counters. (!)

It is no hobby to learn and play this game. It's a vocation. :D

[VipertheSniper]

Thanks for reminding me that I have this great game in my closet, along with PanzerBlitz, Afrika Korps, Diplomacy, and even Axis and Allies, gathering dust because no one I know will play it with me. I can't even get anyone to play Risk.
On the other hand, lame-ass games like Scene-It and Yahtzee seem to find their way into the mix consistently. If it weren't for Texas Hold'em, I'd probably go insane.:damn:

Yahtzee isn't a lame-ass game. Just had to get that off my chest, now move on.

[TDK1044]

If it's a Ubisoft game, the world map will be unfinished and not to scale, there will be spelling mistakes on the tough countries to spell like Chani and Notrh Keroa, and the game will come in a deluxe metal box containing everything but the game.

[Skybird]

Not UBI, but Matrix.

12 screenshots:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/296/screenshots/World.In.Flames

Looks like the original boardgame!

[Raptor1]

Hmm, yeah, been waiting for this one as well, been a while since we had a new good WWII Grand Strategy game

And Hearts of Iron III is coming out in August too, so that leaves me enough to play for the summer

[LobsterBoy]

Hmmm, and I just got a copy of this game on ebay. It's the final edition, it's unpunched, and I only paid $30!!!! Now, if I only had the space to play it :wah:

I'll have to get the Matrix version, too. We may have to set up a thread for PBEM games.

[Skybird]

I am not sure if PBEM will already be in the first release version. But it is in the making.

But maybe I mistake this with some other new game.

[Blacklight]

Thanks for reminding me that I have this great game in my closet, along with PanzerBlitz, Afrika Korps, Diplomacy, and even Axis and Allies, gathering dust because no one I know will play it with me. I can't even get anyone to play Risk.
On the other hand, lame-ass games like Scene-It and Yahtzee seem to find their way into the mix consistently. If it weren't for Texas Hold'em, I'd probably go insane.:damn:

Oh man ! I'd Still go insane !!! I HATE Yahtzee and plain card games. I need strategy in my games, not just luck. I'd go nuts if it wasn't for Chess. I just got for free the seccond chess computer ever sold to the public (dating back to 1977), and it still works. I've been having a blast with that. I've also recently discovered the free chess engines on the net and am actively getting my butt handed to me by them. :stare:

[Skybird]

Chess Challenger 3, maybe? That one was either the first or second commercial computer ever.

I have a collection of magic chess boxes myself, beside the usual PC software of today.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Oh man ! I'd Still go insane !!! I HATE Yahtzee and plain card games. I need strategy in my games, not just luck. I'd go nuts if it wasn't for Chess. I just got for free the seccond chess computer ever sold to the public (dating back to 1977), and it still works. I've been having a blast with that. I've also recently discovered the free chess engines on the net and am actively getting my butt handed to me by them. :stare:

Yeah....no one will play chess, either. That's what makes the occasional chess thread here so nice. I don't care for card games too much, but I win money playing Hold'em.

So what's that chess computer like? Does it have a GUI? I don't even know what it is but I'm impressed you got it for free, it's gotta be worth something.

[Skybird]

this is the first commercial chess computer that was ever sold, a Chess Challenger 1, by Fidelity. The number of pieces still in service with collectors, probably is not even half a hundred. Collectors would pay for one of these 1000-2000 Euros, depending on it's condition. It was sold in the US only. Only 1000 have been produced.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/759/cc1g.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cc1g.jpg)

The second available chess computer was a follow-up to the CC1, and also was delivered 1977. For some reason I do not know it was not called CC2, but CC3. It was the first computer that was sold on the European market as well, and was only slightly more than a correction of the mistakes of the CC1 (which for example had changed the coordinates of notation). Value amongst collectors today: 500- 1500 euros, depending on condition. Not many I would expect to be functional anymore.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1614/cc3y.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cc3y.jpg)

That these computers do not really play chess, and more just move pieces around, should be excused. :DL Visually, both models where almost impossible to be differentiated.

The next models in the series were three versions of the chess challenger 10, the Chess Challenger 7, and the CC Voice, which was the slightly stronger machine, if I remember correctly (I have one in my collection). These I used to play against as a kid, standing in the stores at the tables where they had been lined up, together with the CC Voice, Sensory 8, Chess Champion super System III and the Mark I, Mark II, and Mephisto I. Later also came Novag's machines, and the famous Sargon ARB 2.5 (I also own one of these, but not functional anymore :( )

Blacklight, if you really have a functional piece of one of these two first Challengers, treat it nicely. And if you ever think about making money of it, seek a true collector. The prices I mentioned, are real. I know for sure of two opportunities when a CC3 changed owner for prices between 600 and 800 Euros. For fully functional models that are in visually in exceptionel good shape, you can double that price, and if you talk about a real fucntional, well conserved CC1, then we talk about a small fortune. It's just that many people do not know that , and do not know what they have there when finding one of these in the cellar. It's just an old "toy". Wrong - it's a witness of computer history.

Computer chess is a hobby of mine, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Maybe I know the answer.

[Platapus]

this is the first commercial chess computer that was ever sold, a Chess Challenger 1, by Fidelity.

I got my Boris Chess Computer in '77.

http://www.boris-is-king.com/Boris%20grande%20pubBON_PDF.pdf


Anyone else have (or had) the Boris? I still have mine stored away. :yeah:

[Skybird]

Im relatively sure that the Boris computer did not appear before 1978 or even 79. It looks like some cool secret technology gimmick from WWII. I always liked the looks, also the red mini-bubble LEDs, they glow in a light and colour that simply is fantastic and has fascinated me since all my life. Later, these LEDs turned cyan-green. I hate that they use LCD only today, and no more of these early red LEDs or the kind of 7-segment LEDs that were used by the Challenger computers. I HATE LCD displays, dark grey on light grey background, it is so boring, awful and terrible! :D

I never owned a Boris, but played 3 or 4 matches against it. They had to take it off the powernet frequently, it had a tendency to overheat. Most computers of that time had. The comments by Boris where considered as a cool feature back then. In fact they seemed to have been generated by a random generator. :D

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2707/boris300.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=boris300.jpg)

[Blacklight]

Skybird: The CC3 is the one that I have. At least it can castle unlike the CC1 !
It actually plays a decent game or gives the illusion of it to a novice like me. It holds it's own pretty well while not in any way NEAR the level that a Chess engine like Rybka spanks me.

The pieces are all there and in good condition. There is a single little mark (It looks like a light stain like someone dropped a dry erase marker on and didn't wipe it off properly. It's barely noticeable.) on one square of the board but other than that, I wiped the dust off and it's pretty pristine. The pieces aren't in their original packageing and came in a razor box. One half of the styrofoam inserts is missing. The one that everything sits in is still in it. The box was in deplorable crushed and ripped state. I came home today and found that my wife had put the box back together using packing tape :o (She's VERY obsessive compulsive and can't stand a non perfectly square box. She can't play most of my games because the peices laid out on the boards look like a chaotic mess to her)
The wire to the wall adaptor is a little stiff and given it's age, I'd imagine I'd have to watch it when bending or wrapping it. If it splits, it's easily repairable though.

Anyway, I got the thing for free and I'm damn well enjoying playing with it. It's a keeper. At least for a while. I'm a board game collector and I like to keep my games as pristine as I can.

This is like that time I got a Roland JV-1010 synthisizer for ten dollars at a tag sale almost !

[Skybird]

A CC3, yes, I assumed that. it can be differed visually from the CC1 by a flaw in the CC1's display.the CC1 changes the order of letters and numbers in the display. Instead of G1F3 it shows 1G3F.

When you play, put the machine on mini-sockets so that some air can circulate under the bottom plate. These Chess Challengers, up to the Challenger Sensory models, could become quite warm, even hot, that'S why many of them were returned to the store for exchnage after a customer bought them - just to find them breaking down within one or two weeks. Happened to me, too. I got a challenger voice for christmas - and it broke down on the very same evening, then I had to wait two more days until stores were open again. Two of the longest days in my life, I was very young and impatient then!

Maybe you can prolongue the life time even more by caring for it that way. I use to do that with some of my older pieces, too.

[Blacklight]

Skybird: I noticed that it does get warm when I play it (The adaptor does too) but I wouldn't consider it hot. The thing has little legs so it does keep it off the table top and there's a cieling fan over when I've played with it so it probably helps too. I've played a few games against it and I have yet to win one. Man, I must suck at Chess. :DL
As far as I'm concerned, I'm one of those people who feel that games are meant to be played and not collecting dust so I'm damn well going to play with it until it dies.

In your opinion, what's the best Chess computer for an affordable price out there now in modern times and what's your favorite Chess engine ?

[Skybird]

PC software first. You have to differ between the GUI, and the engine. The engines all are so tough today, that playing strength must not be an argument to prefer this engine over that. They all will be used by most players only with artifical handicaps and brakes.

The best-looking GUI is that of Chessbase's software (not mistaking it with the chessbase database software). the most complete set of supporting functions and training assistances you get with Fritz 11. Now, that is both an engine called Fritz 11, and a GUI called Fritz 11. So you get a very good engine together with it, but you can run other engines under the Fritz 11-GUI, too. All the screenshots in the chessmatch threads of this year that have been posted by me, represent Fritz 11 screenshots, and also illustrate the formidable 3D boards. They deliver such a good illusion that I do not use material boards for analsis anymore (22" widescreen monitor)

Chess computer's golden days are gone since over 15 years, I would say, I am very sorry for that, but that is the truth. And many companies are gone or have shrunk in size. My personal favourites always have been the Mephistos by H+G (Germany) and Fidelity (USA). Fidelity is dead since long, and Mephisot has been bought by Saitek. Novag still is said to be pleagued by service problems and long service times (they reside in Hongkong), i will not recommend them.

If you seek for a small machine that also can serve as a travel computer, I would recommend the Mephisto Expert Travel Chess. I own the Travel Champion 2100, which is practically the same computer, just that the new one is silver, while mine is black. Price new is 80-100 euros in Europe.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/19/mephistoexperttravel.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mephistoexperttravel.jpg)


Via ebay you can occaisonally get a Mephisto Exclusive wooden sensor board (4x4 cm per square), about the module included we must speak again. Any module beyond Mephisto V should not be too old, and fully acceptable, and many M-V's also. If it is a MM-IV, date becomes a factor: the board probbaly would have been proeduced before 1986. For me, these machines always have been the ideal chess computer, but it is no longer produced, and when H+G handed over the business to Saitek, they gave up in production quality: what before was full wooden board and frame, with Saitet got a plastic frame, and less beautiful figures. However, still the best choice.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7452/saitek20kasparov20chess.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=saitek20kasparov20chess.jpg)
This is one of the newer Saitek-produced boards with uglier pieces. With the original figures, this has been maybe the best looking and one of the most sucessful and certainly most-produced table-computers ever. the first boards were delivered with the first MM-1 module in the early 80s. they stopped producing them just two years ago or so, with more modern modules at the end, of course.


there are other wood sensor boards, namely the DGVT board and the Tasc 40, but they are expensive. And none is under production anymore. None...! Can you believe it.

However, since you seem to be a beginner and may take huge benefit from training helps, I recommend you go with the Fritz 11 PC software. It's playing strength can be tuned from imbecile to grandmaster-killer, and it even has a very cool self-adapting skill setting. US-Amazon lists it with 50-55 dollars (new), US-Ebay currently has a bid of 24 dollars (lasting 4 more days).

http://www.chessbase.com/products/fritz11/index.htm



Oh, and this is the original program of the Mephisto M-IV, with an emulator. The download is legal, and free, and the author has legalised it since he has retired from chess business. Check the documentation on how to run the emulator. It gives you the copy of the keyboard and LED display of a Mephisto Module. I have such a module running in a Mephisto Exclusive.

The emulator gives you an original table chesscomputer of the 80s, in virtual form. A bit tricky at first launch, ask me, when you have problems.

http://www.top-5000.nl/index.htm

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1193/image1vto.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image1vto.jpg)

And the free GUI plus free engine "Arena"

http://www.playwitharena.com/

[Blacklight]

Thanks for the link ! I didn't know that MESS also did chess computers. The link on that page was dead, but I found that one as well as a couple of other chess computer roms on a MESS rom site. Any others for MESS that you know about ? I got the roms for Chess Champion MK I, Chess Champion MK II, Mephisto 4, Mephisto 5.0, and Mephisto 5.1. Mephisto 5.1 does play a decent game.

For Chess engines on this PC, I have always used Arena as the GUI and I have several engines. Rybka 2.2 is my most common opponent. I also have Fruit 2-3-1, Naum, SOS, Zappa, Glaurung 22, Bright, Cyclone 3.4, and Thinker.

I have yet to try Fritz but I've heard good things about it. Last week, I ordered one of the Excalibur New York Times Delux Chess handhelds. I've read really good reviews on it and I've been looking for a good portable unit to take with me because we do long car trips to book sales and such in the summer. I'd love to get a full size board chess computer with nice pieces.

[Skybird]

Strange, the download link on that site works for me,i just checked it.

Have you figured out how MESS functions, and how to tailor the window layout? It is a bit tricky. All keys on the virtual keyboard actually have keys on the PC keyboard. Using these alloows to handle the vritual Meohisto in exactly the same way like the real module, inclduing all special functions.

I just would wish the interfce in screen would be clickable.

Actually, not only M-V plays decent chess. The M-IV already was a good thing, too. But if a CC3 already gives you worries, you must not mind that differences anyway.

I would recommend some good book, too. ;)

Rybka 2.2 I know. It has been good two years ago, but the latest pro engine's assessement algorithms really leave it behind. I see that when running multiple engine at the same time when letting them check and comment the latest match I played. For that result, it is too slow. Hiarcs 10 is also very knowledge-heavy, and taken for itself: slow, but compared to Rybka 2 it is fast.

Fruit also has been ranked amongst the top just some time ago.

anyway, all these engines that you mentioned are capable to bring the regular club player into trouble if he does not know what he is doing.

The Swedish Elo-List:
http://ssdf.bosjo.net/list.htm

Note that in north-america, ELO-ratings for computers are raised by around 200-250 points, compared to the rest of the world (probably a trick to boost sales). This explains any huge differences you may note when comparing to American lists. Many computers that were sold with for example a rating of "2000 ELO (USCF)", actually had ratings of 1750-1800. The american ELO is a running joke in computer chess since the 80s. :) For human pro players, actually the FIDE-list represents correctly calculated ELOs.

That Excalibur computer seems to have a better display than the LCD handheld that I have, which is a Saitek-Mephisto. The displays and how easy or difficult the pieces can be recognised i always found to be the archilles heel of such computers, also the small size of the display.

[Blacklight]

Nope. I had no problem figureing out the emulation. MESS is based on the MAME architecture and I'm REALLY familiar with that. I was able to look and see what the keys do in the menu. I've already played a game against it and was beaten soundly. :D
I also found a whole bunch of other chess computers emulated by MESS and snagged them too. It might be fun to make them play each other. :DL

Oh.. and that CC3 doesn't give me any worries. I'm damn well going to beat that thing if it kills me (or has a short circuit and electrocutes me).

A friend of mine last night loaned me his copy of Fritz 10 that he had kicking around that he doesn't play anymore so I'm going to give that one a go next.

You know.. the funny thing about playing against Rybka, it will actually make me think that I'm winning. I'll have that thing down to only a few pieces, thinking to myself that checkmate is right around the corner, only to have the damn thing spank me !

[Skybird]

Okay on the emulator handling, i was asking because it was not intuitive after the black screen appeared how to get on from there, and get a proper display of the virtual module.

Next question: do you know how to activate the Mephisto-specific functions? Positions assessement? Clear the board? List of moves? Changing play level, activate information rotation in the display display? Getting hints?

There is a site, or there was, that had plenty of different manuals for chess computer available for download. It's just that I cannot find that anymore.

[Blacklight]

I've been looking all over for pdf manuals for the Chess computer emulations I downloaded and can't find any so I have no clue how to get into the higher functions although I have played a game against the Mephisto 5.1 right off the bat.

[Skybird]

Gimme some time and I hammer down a brief list of commands for you. Tomorrow. Or do you understand german? Then I copy a bit from the manual for MM-IV and set it up as a pdf. The control codes are very much equal, if I remember correctly.

[Blacklight]

Thanks ! and no. I don't understand German. I can barely understand my OWN language half the time. :DL I do however speak Nerd very fluently.

[Skybird]

Why tomorrow if I can do it today. Paste and copy the following, then print it.

THIS IS for MM-IV. The difference for MM-V should not be big.

The virtual module shows you three rows with 6 keys each.
the numbers and letters are used by pressing the according numbers and letters on the PC-Keyboard.

The first row's command keys, from left to right, match the PC-keys F1-F5.

CL - POS - MEM - INFO - LEV - ENT
F1 -.. F2 - ..F3 - ..F4 - ..F5 - Enter

For the MM-IV, you choose levels by pressing LEV (F5) once, and then the according number.

The levels are as follows:
0 - 2 sec.
1 - 5 sec.
2 - 10 sec.
3 - 20 sec.
4 - 1 min.
5 - 2 min.
6 - 40 moves in 2 hours, tournament level
7 - 6 minutes (analysis level 1)
8 - 12 minutes (analysis 2)
9 - infinite (interrupt by pressing ENT)

The speedchess levels seem to have been deleted, since no sensory board is connected.

Pressing LEV repeatedly, rotates several options and settings. The actual option is activated or deactivated by pressing ENT (it's an on-off-switch). "-" is off, I think.

1x LEV - choose level
2x - "AI" Automatic information
3x - "AU" Auto-Play
4x - "LE" Teacher (Lehrer)
5x - "Pr" analysis level to solve chess problems. The position must be entered before.
6x - "bd" (Brett drehen) turn around the board, play with black
7x - "be" turn on/off random generator
8x - "TH" turn on/off theory (opening library)
9x - "TO" turn on/off tone (beeper)
Leave this option setup anytime by pressing CL.

AI rotates following information in the display when Mephisto is calculating:

time - current move calculated - expected move by opponent - Calculation depth (4.20= 4 half moves, 20 variations) - position evaluation
(0.85= 0.85 pawns in favour of White, nagative values are in favour of Black).

AU lets the machine play against itself. Interesting for the sensory board only.

LE checks for obvious mistakes in the player'S move, If the computer questions a move, the display shows four question marks ???? Pressing INFO shows the move he would do. Pressing 0 goes through a sequence of moves. Pressing G7 recommend a move that the computer would favour instead of yours. CL clears your move (taking back). ENT confirms your move, and the computer makes his move.

Dots in the display indicate chess, promotions, etc. Press INFO then.
INFO + A1 : position evaluation
INFO + B2 : move counter
INFO + C3 : calculation depth
INFO + 0 (+ 0 + 0 etc) recommending a move, then expected sequence of moves forward
INFO + 9 (+ 9 + 9 etc) as above, backwards
INFO + B2 + 0 + 0 + 0 time (per move, per match) for white
INFO + B2 + 9 + 9 times, for Black
MEM + 9 (+9 +9 etc) taking back move(s), until match start, if desired). Press CL when you want to stop taking back moves and leaving MEM-mode
MEM + entering moves : entering a sequence of moves. Press CL to leave MEM mode.

replay match: Press MEM, then ENT at the end of the match. Display shows STA (start). then use = and 9 to move forward and back in the move list. MEM-STA beams you to the beginning, so press 0.

Pressing POS twice, enters position check. Keep pressing POS, you get one square with figure per press. Black is "-"

Pressing POS and CL, clears the board for setting up a position. You probably do not do that with this emulator.

Promotions: check the symbols on the virtual keyboard, and press the according number key, then ENT.

M-IV and M-V were capable to calculate up to 16 half moves ahead. that took time and almost never was reached. the emulator slows down the calculation process so that it matches the times needed of the real table computer. but you can increase that speed. Under Options>Maximum speed, you could reset that speed setting. 100% means it plays as fast or slow as the real table computer. but give it a boost, and then see how the thing plays when all PC's potential is set loose! However, I am not sure, but I think the memory handling of those old times, takes it'S toll on the overall result and calculation depth nevertheless - even if you have 4 GB in your PC. It's still an emulator you are running, designed to match both software and hardware of that time.

[Skybird]

What's Nerd? Some local slang?

[Blacklight]

Thanks !

For Nerd, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd :DL

[Skybird]

My pleasure, enjoy! It's a competent yet humane chess software, no grim reaper like PC engines of today. I enjoy playing chess software from the late eighties and early nineties more than playing any other, later chess software. PC engines of today I can only contain and eventually defeat if not playing table chess against them, but playing them in analysis-style, over several days, like in correspondence chess, but then I get only a handful of moves done per day. Else I get eaten up alive.