How to engage / report this convoy?

[Kubryk]

Hi guys,

it took me almost 9 months at sea, with brief breaks, and on my 5th patrol since 1 Sept. 1939 I spotted my first convoy. Sea-gods listened to my prayers and for the first time in my game experience I can enjoy clear waters with no wind. I did a couple of check-ups without attacking, now I know that convoy looks like this:

Corvette Flower (end of convoy)

C2/3----C2/3----C2/3----C3----
SM-----C2/3-----T3-----SM----C2/3
SM-----C2/3-----ST----C2/3---SM
SM-----C2/3-----T2-----SM----SM

Destroyer (head of the convoy)

I'm greedy - I'd link to sink 'em all. Unfortunately most of the C2/C3s have USA flag, but big tankers are British.

In my VIIB I have:
1 steam on stern, no reserve
1 steam, 3 electric on bow, 3 electric in reserve (onboard)

Total: 8 torpedoes, ca. 160 shells for my deck gun.

Now - how to make the most of it? In order to use deck gun I must sink DD (I can do this) but how to hit that corvette? Is it wise to engage her with deck gun from distant place? I don't think I'll be able to sink her wasting only one torpedo.

I'd like to sink T2, T3 and couple of big merchants with torpedoes and finish as much small merchants as possible with deck gun.

What tactic would you reccomend? We're quite close to coast of Ireland.

Also - I should report a convoy. How can I do this?
Let's say I'm chasing them, I spot a corvette. I ID this ship in my notepad, than click 'send contact report'. Does BdU in SH3 know that I'm reporting a convoy or do I have to report every single ship manually?

Thanks for help, I'd really like to destroy my first convoy totally :rock:

[papa_smurf]

This is not what you can call "tactical", but here goes.... Sink the biggest ships, and ignore the rest:har:.
But in all seriousness, I would tail the convoy at a distance and send reports to BDu, and wait for night to attack as its only 1939, you shouldn't worry about the escorts as they won't have ASDIC. Just pick you targets carefully and don't bother with the deck gun - that's asking for trouble, save that for lone merchants.
I would go for the tankers, as they are the most valuable, and use 2 torpeodoes on each to make sure each is sunk. Once you've launched a salvo, dive imediatley and go silent, this should shake off any of the escorts easily, and re-load. Then get yourself in postion for another attack, and repeat unitl you've had enough or out of torpedoes - Enjoy:salute:


As for reporting to BDu, when you send a contact report, you report the whole convoy and its approximate speed and course.

[danlisa]

Stock SH3 Answer - 160 DG shells should sink them all. :haha: Seriously.

Supermod Answer - How good are you with a DG? From about 3500m out, remove the Flowers Deck Guns and hope that secondary explosions will sink it. Try not to waste a torp on it, if you must use a torp, use a magnetic setting @ +1 or 2m below her keel line, then line up a stern/foward shot that will run from her Bow to Stern. It will detonate about midships and break her back.

If my memory serves, a T3 is the biggest tanker? Even if that's wrong this method works for all ships. Nail one torp into it's bow about 2-3 meters below the water line. Forward momentum and flooding will drive it under.

Happy hunting.

[sharkbit]

Ahhhhh.....convoys with only one or two escorts ....those were the good ol' days!:woot:

The ability to slip in close to the convoy without worrying about the flanker escorts, no radar, and the escort's crew half asleep at the wheel. :D

Night surface attack is your best bet. Get in there and hit them with everything you got. Stay on the surface, get out after shooting your eels, reload, and hit them again. Rinse and repeat until all your eels are gone.
Then head home with the victory pennants flying for some beer and whorin'.

There is nothing more satisfying in this game than a successful night surface attack where the escorts have no idea where you're at as you slip away on the surface and get in position to do it again.

Remember too, that Flower Class corvettes are slow and you may be able to outrun him on the surface if he gets too nosy and spots you or gets close. And if he makes a mistake and gets too close, send a gift out of your stern tube his way. If you get him, the convoy is yours for the taking. :arrgh!: the destroyer could be a nuisance though if he gets wind of you.(missed that my in your post the first time around.)

Just wait a few more years when you run into a convoy with radar equipped escorts surrounding the convoy, making night surfaced attacks very difficult, if not impossible and submerged attacks pretty hairy as well. You'll be wishing for the Happy Times again.

Good luck and let us know how it went. :salute:
:)

[Kubryk]

Thanks for answers, I'll add that date is mid May 1940, convoy speed is 7 knots and I'm playing stock SH3 v.1.4b, no mods whatsoever.

Realistically I should attack both big tankers, escape and make another attack. But after 9 months of patrolling without convoys I AM greedy, extremely greedy and impatient, I would like to do everything in one extreme attack :)

The only thing that is worrying me is that corvette, so small, I don't know how to sink her. Since it's 1940 and stock merchants are unarmed :)

[sharkbit]

You definitely do not want to get greedy and definitely do not get impatient. Patience is the key. Trust me, I learned that the hard way and more than once. :oops:


Don't go hunting the escorts, but if a golden opportunity to make a hole in the escort screen appears, take it.
Remember that the escorts will not have radar as it was so rare early on. The destroyer might but I really doubt it. Use that to your advantage to maul the convoy.

Also, don't get discouraged if you have to abort an attack or you miss, or you get sighted and are forced under. Just end around agin to get in position and attack again. As Bdu says....Be more agressive! :salute:

You should definitely look into downloading one of the super-mods available(GWX, NYGM, etc.). It sounds like you've gotten your feet wet and may want to move on. I got pretty bored with stock pretty quick and downloaded GWX. That will make the game a weeeee bit more challenging.;)

[Kubryk]

I'll go for GWX but first I have to finish my career. That's at least two months of playing - I'm on my fifth patrol and it's one motnh RT already... I'm a bit slow I guess :)

One last question - say I attack and then escape, after how many km merchants would order themselves in nice lanes again? I estimate that after my attack they will run in every direction.

[sharkbit]

I've never seen a convoy scatter in the game. It would be cool if they did that on rare occasions. They pretty much stay in their positions but they start to zig zag after an attack or you are sighted for a couple of hours before they settle down again. The zigs can be pretty rapid, maybe even unrealistically, and you have to be pretty careful shooting while they are zigging.

The only time I've seen the formation get pretty confused is when the convoy hits a waypoint and changes course. I was moving in ahead of a convoy for an attack once when that happened and I had to get out and wait till things settled down before moving in again.

I don't know for sure, but you may be able to keep your current career when you DL GWX.
Also get SH3Commander. It is a game aid that increases immersion and adds some nice settings for gameplay and career options.
:)

[Pisces]

Realistically I should attack both big tankers, escape and make another attack. But after 9 months of patrolling without convoys I AM greedy, extremely greedy and impatient, I would like to do everything in one extreme attack :)Definately don't try to get all of them in one big attempt. This being your first convoy you're going to be stressed to the max. I know, I had the same thing. I completely FUBAR-ed it trying to hit 4 ships around me from inside a convoy, and all of them having the same impact time. Naturally not a single torpedo hit home. K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stuppid)

The tankers are all in the center column. Collumns are not as easy to hit all-in-one as you can with rows (90 degree aproach/zero gyroangle, waiting to fire when each target passes the periscope-line: distant target impacts same time as nearest). Depending on the time or distance they have to go to port-entry. You either try 3 seperate times from outside of the convoy, waiting until the right row is in front of you (and the specific target passes the line). Or you go stealthy inside the columns and wreak havoc from ahead moving to the rear. The 3 seperate attacks would be my favourite after hindsight.

[hatemf90]

Ahhhhh.....convoys with only one or two escorts ....those were the good ol' days!:woot:

I cant find those good old days :x My first spotted convoy had about 2 (mabe 3) destroyers and a corvette...

btw when i hit a ship and it takes time to sink but meanwhile im far from it (or diving) do I still get credit?

[verticalization]

My first convoy was like this, a single destroyer up front.. and a corvette in the back.

After my initial attack, i wasnt so greedy.. tho i did have the balls to stay around periscope depth, and out of silent mode, to let my torpedos reload..

if you get extremely lucky like me, (because believe me, it was not my skill at that time) you might find yourself in a situation where the corvette is behind you doing circles, and a destroyer making his way to the same position.. if you can hit them both just right, a shot from stern should take out the corvette, and another from the front should get the DD when he turns to your new found position.

i'm going to goahead and give a disclaimer with that advice tho, its basically like running into a lions cage, stealing all their food.. and than deciding to poke the biggest one with a stick.

[sharkbit]

I cant find those good old days :x My first spotted convoy had about 2 (mabe 3) destroyers and a corvette...


I bet they didn't have radar though. Even 2 or 3 escorts early war are fairly easy to sneak by with patience, some intelligence gathering, good position, running decks awash, slow speed, and a little luck. :DL Radar makes it sooooo much more difficult to sneak in at night on the surface later in the war.

btw when i hit a ship and it takes time to sink but meanwhile im far from it (or diving) do I still get credit?

I believe that if you are still in hydrophone(submerged) or visual range(surfaced), you will get credit although I've been robbed a few times.

[Synthfg]

Personally

I'd get ahead of the convoy and head straight at it on the surface,

Remain on the surface until either the DD starts shooting or I can get a contact report off (3 ships in visual)

When the DD starts heading my way dive to PD and ensure my Type I in the fore tube is set to fast, magnetic at about 4m

Keeping the Periscope up head straight towards the DD, head to head at 1/3 speed. At 1000m open the tube door, at 500m send the fast tI down her throat.

With the DD down engage the tankers with eels but keep an eye out for the corvette, when it moves towards you repeat the procedure for the DD (Note with a Type II you will have to fire from 550m or so)

With the Corvette gone, fill your boots

[Kubryk]

Thanks for all answers, now I'll tell you how it went.

I decided to attack during the day, I was afraid that convoy may change it's course (we were pretty close to Ireland), the air support would be too strong (last time not far away from my attack spot 3 planes were all over me 15 minutes after I sunk a merchant), finally - I don't know how SH3 works, I wasn't willing to risk that convoy would just dissapear. (in stock SH3 v. 1.4b, how close to shores AI ships are vanishing? do they enter some harbor or just dissapear?)

It was early in the morning when I attacked for the first time. I decided not to engage escorts - we'll go for tonnage, I said to myself, and if the weather holds we can still find some small merchants later to sink with our deck gun. For my first attack I decided to go for T2 and T3. Sybmerged for a long time I waited 'till ships arrived, luckilly (and just luckilly, pure luck :) ) DD was circling in the oposite direction. Submerged with 2 knots I placed myself inside a convoy, between 1st and 2nd line. Merchants were blocking my view on tankers, not cool :) I was afraid my scope would be spotted. Anywho, I sent two torps for T2 and two for T3. T2 was easy, AOB 90 at scope angle 0, distance ca. 900m. 4 torpedoes shot, first one - kaboom, T2 got it in what will be remembered as a 'perfect spot', immediately 'she's going down'. Second torp. for that vessel was unnecessary, and probably missed his aft by inches.

T3 - two torps, no luck. I have no idea how big my mistake was, as I was already diving and changing course. DD was all over me in a matter of minutes, soon corvette joined, I was depth charged several times, it took me two hours to escape. Result of attack nr 1 - sunk T2, minor damage of AA gun, HI 100%.

I took another shot after 3 hours, still during the day. To rebuild my confidence I went after C2/3. Turned out there were some C3's (all American) and 5 C2 (British). This time I positioned myself on their port side.

I was between 5th and 4th lane, attacking on 4th. I prepared a solution - AOB 90 at scope angle 0, distance 550m. I shot 2 torps (depth 3,5 m, contact trigger) willing to sink two C2 cargo. First one - no problem, hit just below the stack, a sure kill. Second one... miss! :damn: I was already going deeper when I heard explosion and my WO told me 'torpedo missed'. I didn't get intended C2, that's for sure. Maybe my electric torpedo just exploded or maybe I hit another target.

This time escorts couldn't even find me. I'm still in the hydro zone of the convoy.

I must say I'm a little dissapointed with my performance - 6 shots, 2 one-hit kills but also 4 misses. I was wondering - how could I miss another C2 if the first one was hit precisly where I aimed? Both ships had same speed, my speed was dead zero, AOB at 0 was 90. Later I fiddled with TDC and - to my astonishment, I overlook this earlier - when distance, bearing, AOB and speed are fixed on TDC, changing bearing results only in changing AOB. Distance stays the same. So, I hit first one when it was 550 from my bow, but same solution was applied to second C2, which was few hundred meters behind the first one.

I know why I missed, and realized it may be difficult to attack several targets at once - when they are travelling on the same lane (we're assuming they won't have a chance for ziggzagging) one has to prepare solution for first one, fire, than put scope on second, measure distance, with scope on second target input new distance to TDC and fire immediately.

Is my thinking correct on this one?

I will make one last run at a T3. However I only have one bow torp. left - I don't know when and how but I incidentally fired my aft torp. Possibly when I was hitting pause I pushed 'enter' with my palm. It happened before.

So - where should I aim to sink T3 with one shot? I think if T2 went down after one, it can be done with T3 also. Should I aim below the stack? I hit T2 under small conning tower, not the one with stack.

Anyway, it was a very entertaining experience. I hope you enjoyed reading this, despite English errors :)

[sharkbit]

I'm assuming you are using manual targeting. if not, the TDC does not matter as well as what is written below.

If your course is 90 degrees to the target's course(AOB 90 when target bears dead ahead at 000 degrees), then range to target does not matter. I try to pre-set it though when I get to firing position to about what the range is to the target's track.
If your course is not perpindicular to the target's course, then range is a huge factor.
Of course speed is critical in any targeting solution.

Check out link below. Probably one of the best tutorials out there on manual targeting:
http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/#Section

Also search for manual targeting threads using the search function. There's a lot of good information, even if you are using auto targeting.

You are correct-the TDC does not update range, only AOB as you rotate the scope/UZO.

Good job on the convoy.:salute:

[sharkbit]

Also...
That is one nice thing about attacking convoys-they are all on the same course and speed. If you get perpendicular to their course, since range doesn't matter, you can shoot multiple targets fairly easily.
:)

[Kubryk]

sharkbit,

that's exactly what I was doing (manual, AOB 90, dead stop). I didn't change range for second vessels and in both cases I missed.

----first_ship---------------second ship-----
|
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|
|
|
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|
me

It was like this. First ship was hit when I aimed, second was missed. That happened with tankers and merchants. Next time I'm going to make separate entries of distance, one for every target. I'll see if that helps.

[sharkbit]

One thing I've noticed when attacking multiple ships at close range is the gyro angle is pretty big when firing at the trailing ship(I'm assuming your shots were fairly close together, time wise) which decreases your chances of a clean hit, plus the torpedo may have hit at too big of an angle and just bounced off the hull of the second.
I've tried to open the range a bit when trying multiple targets.

One thing I've done is generated a mission using the Mission Generator to practice engaging multiple targets without all those extra worries of night, escorts trying to kill you, and the like. I put a couple of ships in formation and set my sub up in good position and go from there. You can experiment with different approaches, angles, ranges, etc. at your leisure.

Hope all this helps. I'm by no means a manual targeting guru. I just started manual targeting a couple of months ago with a new career in the Med. I was an auto-targeter until then. I'm learning a lot as I go.
:)

[Kubryk]

If I can set everything in this mission editor (speed, course, distance between ships, wheather and time) your idea is certainly worth a try. Thanks for a tip!

[sharkbit]

If I can set everything in this mission editor (speed, course, distance between ships, wheather and time) your idea is certainly worth a try. Thanks for a tip!

Yes-all that and more.
Here is a link to bigboywooly's pdf tutorial on using the editor. Quite helpful and safe to download.

http://files.filefront.com/sh3+missioneditor+v12pdf/;11915465;/fileinfo.html

:)