Big frustration

[TorpedoMo]

Last weekend I was sunk in an convoy attack in a frustrating run of events.

Let me say what makes me so angry about this game:

I approach convoy from Sb side, position myself between the outer line of merchants and the outside escort. Closing in on the surface up to 1500m distance. Escort is coming up behind. Dive to PD, 2knots. I enter the convoy from the side while the escort is crossing my boat's aft in a distance 1000-1500m, WZB 90°. My boat is not detected.
As I cross the merchant entering the convoy, the DD is at WZB 140-150°. I slightly increase speed to 3kn and I get immediatly pinged by the escort.

Unfortunately the escort actually is NOT able to ping me in this angle but it does.

Anyway. DD is turning by putting up steam, pointing his nose up to my boat. Crash dive to 80m by running the convoy's course. Consistent pinging.Second Escort closing. Dive to 200m.
Within two hours I wasn't able to get rid of at least one escort for more than a minute. Depht of 200m+, Course -and Speedchangings and most of the time silent running and that within a convoy couldn't make it possible.
After two hours a total hit by a depht charge. The boat didn't even shake, so I have a look at the damage management and in the next second it's all over.

I think the behaviour and happenings are not that realistic...

One of the guys also played that convoy attack had to escape 3 escorts later and also couldn't manage to get rid of them. We canceled the game because we had the slightly feeling that its simply impossible. While beeing pursuited by the escorts, I felt like pulling bouy at the surface behind me.

By the way, the gametime was January 1940! Not the time you expect Hunter Killer DDs...

So we discussed the prob after the attack and thought about a bug in that mission. We had similiar experiences in former matches, but not that significant like this one. We thougt about changing some sensor.dat entries but we are too unexperienced in that job.

(Sh3+GWX2.1)

What's your opinion about that? Do you know some things to change?

Let me know.

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

I've found playing GWX (maybe the same in stock version), that going above 2 knots, to say ahead 1/3 is loud enough for the DDs to hear you. If you keep it at 2 knots,silent running thats good enough for 1940.

I've noticed more in GWX 3 that multiple DDs join in the attack. What I haven't noticed is where or not they are coordinating with each other. Later on, one sits and listens to your engines pick up and course change while the other DD makes his attack run. I dont get that with these guys yet. I am also in 1940 on my campaign. So far, I like that they pile on. When they get better,I may not like it so much.

I didnt play GWX2, only 1.4 and then jumped to 3. The multiple DDs must have carried over from 2. Someone that worked on it would know better than I. If your friend couldn't shake the DDs, his speed may have been too high. It ussually works to increase speed during the DD attack run and make a 45 to 90 degree turn, then go down to 2 knots. DDs cant hear anything when running at 18 knots and depthcharges going off.

Good Hunting

[Hanomag]

I have been playing SH3 with all the GWX incarnations over the past several years. I have noticed at times aggressive DDs regardless of the year. I always thought it was just the way the game was. Then at the recent Subsim meet in Texas a friend of mine, also frustrated by being pinged for no apparent reason asked a simple question....

"How can they possibly be pinging me?? Why ??"

The answer was even simpler....

"Because that is what destroyers do."

So a DD that even thinks theres an enemy near, is going to ping like crazy regardless of your position in the hopes of catching you. Just because you are under the cone doesnt mean the DD will stop pinging. Think if you were a DD Captain, being ping happy could save lives. :up:

As far as your death by Depth Charge problem, maybe the previous detonations you heard where above your depth and the last one just floated down and nestled next to the control room before it exploded. I one hit Depth Charge kill is certainly possible. :cry:

Everything you have described seems pretty real to me, most of all, your frustration. If I was a U-boat Kapt. I would be bald from pulling my hair out in frustration.

Of course thats just my opinion. I have never played missions or multiplayer. I am strictly a campaign person. All my above info is derived from Campaign play. I can only suggest playing that same mission a few times and see if the AI behaviour persists.

[Jimbuna]

I would be bald from pulling my hair out in frustration.


What hair? :hmmm:

When we met last October you had none :O:

BTW....I agree with everything you posted :DL

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[FIREWALL]

Why wouldn't they be actively pinging while escorting a convoy ?

[Jimbuna]

They tended to listen in passive mode (not that the sets were that reliable early on) and go active intermittently.

However, the second they suspect a U-boat was around they would go active.

Check the game out carefully and you will often see one go active whilst another listens intently close by.

[TorpedoMo]

Sorry, I think I wrote misunderstanding.

The point is that some realistic facts are not simulated, which are elemental in AntiASW tactics, like

-A DD cant ping me if my boat is located a specific maximum angle to his side/aft, because ASDIC, especially the early ones only had a narrow beam focus forward, so they had to turn the hole ship. In time, there were ASDICS mounted in swayable hulls to increase the efficiency. Also the beam itself got a bit brighter.
So a DD in 1940 cannot ping me while I'm with a WZB of 140°. The same counts for the hydro. If you run in a DDs aft, he can't hear you because of his ownship noise. This is simulated.

-The Escorts sensor efficiency (both ASDIC and Hydrophon) not seem to be shortened regardless my boat is within a hole convoy or on silent running. Its crazy to locate a submerged uboat running silent within a convoy with hydrophon.

-next the ASDIC seems to have no problems in spotting deep dived subs, but whith the first machines, the ASDIC searchhead was not able to be swayed vertically. Means the beam goes above the boat if its deep. 200m of course was deep for early WW2 ASDIC Systems.

I thinks its mostly a all or nothing principe if the spotting takes place or not, not concerning any currents or contingencies.

[FIREWALL]

I use the ... Get into position, 50-60 mtr depth, 1knt , silent running method, to get in to convoy.

I let the DE's get past me then move in for the KILL. :DL

[Jimbuna]

Sorry, I think I wrote misunderstanding.

The point is that some realistic facts are not simulated, which are elemental in AntiASW tactics, like

-A DD cant ping me if my boat is located a specific maximum angle to his side/aft, because ASDIC, especially the early ones only had a narrow beam focus forward, so they had to turn the hole ship. In time, there were ASDICS mounted in swayable hulls to increase the efficiency. Also the beam itself got a bit brighter.
So a DD in 1940 cannot ping me while I'm with a WZB of 140°. The same counts for the hydro. If you run in a DDs aft, he can't hear you because of his ownship noise. This is simulated.

-The Escorts sensor efficiency (both ASDIC and Hydrophon) not seem to be shortened regardless my boat is within a hole convoy or on silent running. Its crazy to locate a submerged uboat running silent within a convoy with hydrophon.

-next the ASDIC seems to have no problems in spotting deep dived subs, but whith the first machines, the ASDIC searchhead was not able to be swayed vertically. Means the beam goes above the boat if its deep. 200m of course was deep for early WW2 ASDIC Systems.

I thinks its mostly a all or nothing principe if the spotting takes place or not, not concerning any currents or contingencies.

The sensors were adjusted to simulate as best as was possible within the constraints imposed upon us by the game engine and hard coding.

The width/arc of the cone was widened to simulate asdic being used by a more proficient crew as the war progressed.

The sensors are actually able to hear through land....nothing we could do about that (hard coded).

However, if you use SH3 Commander, the programme randomly dictates how deep you need to go before the sonar can no longer find you....this is to simulate thermal layers.

There is so much more we wanted to do but the game code prevented us I'm afraid.

[TorpedoMo]

@jimbuna

Yea, I know that many vital things are unchangable because of hardcoded.

I don't wanted to accuse you for bad work, I know you and all other in that project did the very best! :up:

Just wanted to get rid of my anger...please dont misunderstand

[Jimbuna]

@jimbuna

Yea, I know that many vital things are unchangable because of hardcoded.

I don't wanted to accuse you for bad work, I know you and all other in that project did the very best! :up:

Just wanted to get rid of my anger...please dont misunderstand

No problems at this end my friend......I fully understand your frustration.

You and every one of us are entitled to state our views http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif