US National debt has reached $64 Trillion

[SUBMAN1]

The US is at an end - we are bankrupt, just that most of us don't know it yet. Politicians should be made to wear signs that say 'idiot and getting dumber' written on it, and then forced to march down main street.

$52 Trillion in liabilities and $12 Trillion in debt. That is $200K for each of us. So how exactly do we plan to pay this off? And Obama has the gall to chastise company execs even. Ridiculous.

At least someone is ticked off:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30227452/

The bad part - the rest of the world will fall with us because they are pretty much just as dumb when it comes to money and have made stupid investments in the infrastructure that will come to an end.

-S

[Digital_Trucker]

But unlike many events around the country, politicians were not allowed to speak at a separate rally in San Antonio.

"They are welcome to come and listen to us, for a change," organizers said in a statement.
Amen to that sentiment:yeah:

[Enigma]

Conservatives are just so patriotic recently...

[SUBMAN1]

Conservatives are just so patriotic recently...

I just wish liberals were patriotic simply even just once in a while. Just once here and there. That would be a major improvement.

As they say, if you want to tick a liberal off, just work hard and be happy. That says it all.

-S

[Tribesman]

I just wish liberals were patriotic simply even just once in a while.
Pariotism , the last refuge of the scoundrel .

[Zachstar]

Conservatives are just so patriotic recently...

Don't worry as soon as 2012 rolls around suddenly they will go back to their usual "America is the best thing EVAH!!"

[August]

Don't worry as soon as 2012 rolls around suddenly they will go back to their usual "America is the best thing EVAH!!"

But America IS the best thing ever! Don't you agree?

[Frame57]

Naw August....We suk which is why we are the number one destination for immingrants world wide.:damn:

[AngusJS]

But America IS the best thing ever! Don't you agree?Why? Many other countries offer the same liberties that the US does...as well as universal health care, efficient mass transit systems, the cultural wealth gained from millenia of history, etc...all without legions of fundamentalists trying to ram their religion down your throat, idiotic policies such as capital punishment, etc...

Of course other countries have their problems as well - there are no utopias. But I don't see any reason why the US is just so much better than anywhere else in the industrialized West. The US is ok. Not horrible, not great.

[Aramike]

Why? Many other countries offer the same liberties that the US does...as well as universal health care, efficient mass transit systems, the cultural wealth gained from millenia of history, etc...all without legions of fundamentalists trying to ram their religion down your throat, idiotic policies such as capital punishment, etc...

Of course other countries have their problems as well - there are no utopias. But I don't see any reason why the US is just so much better than anywhere else in the industrialized West. The US is ok. Not horrible, not great.Perhaps a definition of what constitutes a "great" country is in order here, prior to handing out arbitrary grades.

For instance, I'm not religious at all and I haven't ran into any fundamentalists "ramming" their religion down my throat, as you seem to imply. That argument is an absurd invention of people who take issue with simply seeing religious symbals such as the cross in passing. Nothing is more ridiculous than the morons who are offended merely by a display of the Ten Commandments - not even the "idiotic policies such as capital punishment", as you put it.

[rubenandthejets]

The Bush legacy, a gift that keeps on giving....trillions dollars of debt!

[Stealth Hunter]

Pariotism , the last refuge of the scoundrel .

There's nothing wrong with patriotism in its own right, but with it today, there is. It's gotten too mixed up with nationalism since 9/11.:nope:

[August]

Why? Many other countries offer the same liberties that the US does...as well as universal health care, efficient mass transit systems, the cultural wealth gained from millenia of history, etc...all without legions of fundamentalists trying to ram their religion down your throat, idiotic policies such as capital punishment, etc...

Of course other countries have their problems as well - there are no utopias. But I don't see any reason why the US is just so much better than anywhere else in the industrialized West. The US is ok. Not horrible, not great.

Since you choose to keep your location a secret I can't tell what your viewpoint is but let me assure you that what you hear in the foreign press about religion in my country is highly inaccurate.

[OneToughHerring]

Makes me wonder how in the US it is often the soldiers and ex-soldiers who are the most ready to be patriotic although the 'idea' of the US is small government, less stormtroopers on the streets, etc. I mean, aren't soldiers kind of part of the government? It's ultimate fail back system, so to say? Why are US soldiers so happy to defend the fat capitalists and their obese offspring by getting blown up in some foreign conflict thousands of miles away from US borders?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Makes me wonder how in the US it is often the soldiers and ex-soldiers who are the most ready to be patriotic although the 'idea' of the US is small government, less stormtroopers on the streets, etc. I mean, aren't soldiers kind of part of the government? It's ultimate fail back system, so to say? Why are US soldier so happy to defend the fat capitalists and their obese offspring by getting blown up in some foreign conflict thousands of miles away from US borders?

It is possible to fight for your country even if you don't agree with all of the government's policies.
I only wish it were true that we were being sent to fight by the "fat capitalists" They'd probably pay us a lot better.....

[Digital_Trucker]

Makes me wonder how in the US it is often the soldiers and ex-soldiers who are the most ready to be patriotic.....

Is this not true in all countries? Aren't the most patriotic also the most likely to become soldiers or have been soldiers already? Why is that so difficult to fathom?

[AngusJS]

Since you choose to keep your location a secret I can't tell what your viewpoint is but let me assure you that what you hear in the foreign press about religion in my country is highly inaccurate.I'm American. Based on the domestic press and my own observations, I think the number per capita / power of fundamentalists is greater in the US than in other Western countries.

But regardless, my point is that today, the quality of life in other Western countries is at least comparable, if not better, than that in the US. Thus, I don't see the basis for the US still being touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread in the 21st century.

[August]

I'm American. Based on the domestic press and my own observations, I think the number per capita / power of fundamentalists is greater in the US than in other Western countries.

But regardless, my point is that today, the quality of life in other Western countries is at least comparable, if not better, than that in the US. Thus, I don't see the basis for the US still being touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread in the 21st century.

Have you ever lived in a foreign country? Where do you live in the US?

[AngusJS]

Have you ever lived in a foreign country? Where do you live in the US?I lived in Russia for 4 years, and have traveled to 20 countries. I live in the northeast.

[August]

I lived in Russia for 4 years, and have traveled to 20 countries. I live in the northeast.


That's interesting because my experience, though quite similar to yours (lived in Germany 3 years, been to a comparable number of countries, live in the northeast) is very much different. Maybe we travel in different circles...

[Schroeder]

That's interesting because my experience, though quite similar to yours (lived in Germany 3 years, been to a comparable number of countries, live in the northeast) is very much different. Maybe we travel in different circles...

Just out of curiosity, what was you impression of German living standards compared to the US?

[August]

Just out of curiosity, what was you impression of German living standards compared to the US?

They were more comparable to US living standards than any other country i've been to except Canada, although there were some things that would be out of the ordinary here. My grandparents for example lived in a 400 year house whose only heat was the kitchen stove. Air conditioning meant opening the windows. The apartments tended to be a lot smaller as well, usually one small room with a communal bathroom. Car ownership wasn't as widespread either. Your public transportation system was more extensive than ours but if I had my druthers I'd take private car travel over train any day.

On the other hand your country is generally a lot cleaner than mine. The lack of litter is one of the first things people notice and it is something you should be proud of.

All in all Germany was certainly no Somalia, but I must add that this was in the late 1970's and with the Red Army poised on the East German and Czechoslovakian borders there was a constant feeling that it would all be swept away at any moment in the fires of war.

[Schroeder]

All in all Germany was certainly no Somalia, but I must add that this was in the late 1970's and with the Red Army poised on the East German and Czechoslovakian borders there was a constant feeling that it would all be swept away at any moment in the fires of war.
Yep, that was a constant problem (although I didn't realize it back then since I was only a child).
Thanks for the reply.:salute:

[SteamWake]

The Bush legacy, a gift that keeps on giving....trillions dollars of debt!


:rotfl:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/deficit.jpg

Something screwy with that timeline, cant quite put my finger on it.

[Tribesman]

Something screwy with that timeline, cant quite put my finger on it.
Thats understanable , after all you clearly don't know what legacy means .

[Digital_Trucker]

Thats understanable , after all you clearly don't know what legacy means .

And you clearly can't see where that legacy ends and The Chosen Ones MasterCard bill begins.

[Tribesman]

And you clearly can't see where that legacy ends and The Chosen Ones MasterCard bill begins.
It began when the new president picked up the complete mess left by the earlier responsible fiscally prudent president who managed to leave as his legacy lots of expensive long term commitments and a thoroughly screwed economy

[Digital_Trucker]

It began when the new president picked up the complete mess left by the earlier responsible fiscally prudent president who managed to leave as his legacy lots of expensive long term commitments and a thoroughly screwed economy

and ended when his successor threw the entire Treasury plus a few odd billion at the problem to make it better:yeah:

[August]

It began when the new president picked up the complete mess left by the earlier responsible fiscally prudent president who managed to leave as his legacy lots of expensive long term commitments and a thoroughly screwed economy

Administrations have little effect on the economy. A Democrat controlled Congress spending several trillion dollars will have a much bigger effect.

[SteamWake]

Administrations have little effect on the economy. A Democrat controlled Congress spending several trillion dollars will have a much bigger effect.

Politico's would have no effect on the economy if they stayed the hell out of it as was desired in the constitution.

Oh well.

[Tribesman]

and ended when his successor threw the entire Treasury plus a few odd billion at the problem to make it better
Like Reagan did?

[Zachstar]

Like Reagan did?

ZING!

[SteamWake]

If I remember correctly Regan was handed a recession and did an admirable job of turning it around.

[Stealth Hunter]

The same one Carter inherited from Ford and Nixon.:yeah:

[Tribesman]

If I remember correctly Regan was handed a recession and did an admirable job of turning it around.

Which he did by nearly quadrupling the national debt in a very short time .
Though of course Reagan had one big advantage , the legacy he recieved didn't include a crazily expensive unwinnable war .

[August]

Which he did by nearly quadrupling the national debt in a very short time .
Though of course Reagan had one big advantage , the legacy he recieved didn't include a crazily expensive unwinnable war .

The cold war was plenty expensive, and as of 1980 still hadn't been won although it had been going on for 35 years.

[OneToughHerring]

It is possible to fight for your country even if you don't agree with all of the government's policies.
I only wish it were true that we were being sent to fight by the "fat capitalists" They'd probably pay us a lot better.....

Yea well for example the drug companies could afford to fix up Walter Reed ten times over and still have billions and billions of profit to stash away. They decide to not do so because they don't want to pay to the veterans or soldiers any more then they have to. They are what the US military defends.

But it doesn't surprise me that an American would be willing to trade their flag for a buck.

[Tribesman]

The cold war was plenty expensive, and as of 1980 still hadn't been won although it had been going on for 35 years.
Big difference , the cold war was winnable

[UnderseaLcpl]

Yea well for example the drug companies could afford to fix up Walter Reed ten times over and still have billions and billions of profit to stash away. They decide to not do so because they don't want to pay to the veterans or soldiers any more then they have to. They are what the US military defends.

Notwithstanding the fact that the government let Walter Reed get that way to begin with, having pharmaceutical companies throw billions of dollars at the problem wouldn't solve it for long. Walter Reed's problem wasn't that the facility was inadequate, the problem was that it was not well-maintained and provided poor service. That's what happens in a government monopoly.
Our private hospitals, on the other hand, are amongst the best in the world, if not the best overall, and consistently provide first-rate service because of the profit motive. If I had my leg blown off, I'd rather be at one of those.


But it doesn't surprise me that an American would be willing to trade their flag for a buck.

Why trade when you can have both? That flag represents a nation built upon individual liberties and free trade. There is nothing unpatriotic about private industry, certainly not moreso than government in any case.

[August]

Big difference , the cold war was winnable

Nobody in 1980 thought so and that's the whole point. The future is never as clear as the past.

[OneToughHerring]

Notwithstanding the fact that the government let Walter Reed get that way to begin with, having pharmaceutical companies throw billions of dollars at the problem wouldn't solve it for long. Walter Reed's problem wasn't that the facility was inadequate, the problem was that it was not well-maintained and provided poor service. That's what happens in a government monopoly.
Our private hospitals, on the other hand, are amongst the best in the world, if not the best overall, and consistently provide first-rate service because of the profit motive. If I had my leg blown off, I'd rather be at one of those.

Strange because here in Finland a soldier or a veteran would have top of the line in the world care and it'd be all expences paid. The same for everyone who gets sick. We take care of our veterans, and they care about defending the nation. Not just some company.

Why trade when you can have both? That flag represents a nation built upon individual liberties and free trade. There is nothing unpatriotic about private industry, certainly not moreso than government in any case.Well obviously you have neither. Your country is bankrupt and hated all over the world and the same goes for your companies.

[Digital_Trucker]

Well obviously you have neither. Your country is bankrupt and hated all over the world and the same goes for your companies.

That's funny. I don't see any of those countries that hate ours so much turning down the free aid that our bankrupt country ships to them. Your hatred for the US is already well documented, why don't you just let it stand?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Strange because here in Finland a soldier or a veteran would have top of the line in the world care and it'd be all expences paid. The same for everyone who gets sick.

It would be hard to compare Finland to the U.S. in that regard because there are so many differing factors. I expect that Finland's healthcare system can be administered more effectively because there are more competing political parties and there are only a few million Finns. Government gets a lot less efficient as the size of the population increases.
Just because the system works in Finland doesn't mean it will work in the U.S. Look at the state healthcare we have now. It sucks and it is very expensive.

We take care of our veterans, and they care about defending the nation. Not just some company. Our veterans also care about defending their nation, and other nations as well. U.S. citizens also try to care for our military personnel, the government just botches it sometimes, suggesting it may not be the proper agency.


Well obviously you have neither. Your country is bankrupt and hated all over the world and the same goes for your companies.

I'm not going to try to make this into some sort of nationalist argument. I disapprove of my government (and its' spending) as much as you do, if not more. It has become something it was never intended to be, and I'd like to see less of it.
However, the world does not hate our companies as much as you might suppose. If people disapproved of them, they couldn't do business. No one would buy their products.
You shouldn't hate them, either. U.S businesses have never invaded a country, nor have they ever legislated foreign policy. All they do is create jobs and generate economic activity. They do a better job of such things than the state does. In fact, I think they might do a better job administering veterans' healthcare and providing military services (to some extent, obviously they cannot have a monopoly on military force, like the state does).

[antikristuseke]

But America IS the best thing ever! Don't you agree?

Fistonia is clearly superior.

[August]

Fistonia is clearly superior.

Never heard of it. but assuming it isn't some made up name I would expect it's residents to love their country as much as i love mine and you should love yours.

[antikristuseke]

The only reason Fistonia is better is the fact that it is fictional. If it were a real country it would be a complete hellhole :)

And for all it's problems estonia is a good place to live, so i guess you could say, I love it.