Bdu Doesn't Believe Me....

[sharkbit]

...that I sank the Aquatania(again :O:)!

Intercepted a convoy in the Med east of Gibraltar. Made a daylight submerged attack and saw a large troopship and the Aquatania tucked in with the other ships.

Got in good firing position and got 3 eels shot before an escort picked me up and drove me down. One eel hit.

For the next hour or so, as I was evading 3 destroyers intent on revenge(I ended up with 83% H.I when all was said and done), I peeked up on the surface with external camera and watched the remainder of the convoy go around her as she slowed down, down by the bow, and eventually stopped. I made it a point to stay near her so I could try and hear her sink or get another torpedo into her after my tormentors gave up.

All of a sudden, my crew starts cheering and I see a red sunken ship icon on my chart but no "She's going down!" message and no credit in the log. I was quite dissapointed :cry:. I watched her slip beneath the waves on external cam so I know and the crew knows we sank her but Bdu just won't believe me and credit me the tonnage. :damn::damn:

I ran into one of her sisters two patrols ago with just another large troopship, a cruiser, and 2 escorts and sank her for over 41000 tons:D. Got credit for that one but, alas , no medals for me. :wah:
The Luftwaffe hit this convoy just after I got the Aqautania and they got the troopship.

This is the first time I've seen it happen like this. I have torpedoed ships and watched them sink, even on the surface, and not get any credit for them, but no cheering or icon on the map like this time.

It was just a curious event, a little frustrating, but life goes on.:sunny:

[Annatar]

Did the Luft' finish her off? If not it could be poor weather - I know that can rob you of your credit for a kill.

Speaking of killing multiples of the same ship in one campaign; I wonder how complicated it would be to have an option in, say, SH3Commander (just as an example) where you select from a list which "one of a kind" ships you sink after each mission, and they are then removed from the roster so they can't appear again?

[Jimbuna]

You can only be 100% sure of the credit when you get the message "She's going down"

[papa_smurf]

Typical of Herr Goerings flyboys nicking your kills. There never there when we need them though:nope:

[GoldenRivet]

This is why the next version of Silent Hunter should have a dynamic ship list with unique ship names (S.S. Explorer etc), which removes the ship from the list once it is sunk. The only way there can ever be another "S.S. Explorer" would be to name it "S.S. Explorer II" ;)

the difficult part, is the campaign would have to include an element that would change historical events should a ship which originally took part in the event be lost before the actual event date... a sort of "paradox prevention" method so to speak

ie... if the hood were sunk by the player in 1939... it would be removed from the ship roster... but what ship would be next in line to dispatch after the Bismark? and next in line should that ship be sunk and next in line and so on?

the campaign would have to know that hood no longer exists, and it would have to have a secondary or tertiary ship to substitute as hood in the campaign later on.

just as the campaign would have to know that the HMS Aquitania was sunk by the player (or other means) on xx/xx/xx date and would be removed from the roster never to be seen again in that campaign

[A Very Super Market]

Sorry, but I think that is just a silly idea. No computer (And not one for ages) would be able to think like that. Hell, even the foremost historians cannot agree and "What-if" questions, and it would only add to the level of immersion a tad, in my view. If it were possible, feasible, and wouldn't require decades of production to make, I would welcome it, but that particular wish is completely out of our grasp.

[Annatar]

Don't be absurd. It'd be as simple as the game wanting to spawn the Hood, seeing that it's not on the roster (since you sunk it two patrols ago) and simply substituting two generic cruisers or another available (ie: not sunk) BB in its place. There's no artificial intelligence or difficult processing required whatsoever.

[A Very Super Market]

What if they run out? I find it even less realistic and immersive if the game and history continues even if all the crucial ships have been sunk.

[Annatar]

Are you implying that any player will be able to sink every Allied battleship, aircraft carrier and heavy cruiser? Because that's the only scenario in which they would be sunk before their historic date.

We're looking at more than a dozen aircraft carriers, 15+ Battleships and around 20 Heavy Cruisers in the Royal Navy alone if my numbers are right.

[GoldenRivet]

Sorry, but I think that is just a silly idea. No computer (And not one for ages) would be able to think like that. Hell, even the foremost historians cannot agree and "What-if" questions, and it would only add to the level of immersion a tad, in my view. If it were possible, feasible, and wouldn't require decades of production to make, I would welcome it, but that particular wish is completely out of our grasp.

I disagree...

you wouldnt need "what if" logic... just "if - then" logic which is widely used in computers in multiple applications "IF: HMS hood not on Roster; THEN: use HMS Rodney. IF: HMS Rodney unavailable; THEN: Use HMS Nelson"

in the mission builder you would have a pull down menu on a unit when it is added to the map.

the pull down menu would have 10 options

Each option would represent a different ship if the primary ship were not available.

if #1 is not available, use #2, if #2 is not available then use #3 and so on and so forth until you get to #10 which is "Do Not Script"

seems pretty straight forward.

the computer looks at a roster and if one of the 10 listed "similar" units is "available" - it uses the available unit.

for example if HOOD was to engage BISMARK on XXX Date... and HOOD was not on the roster the computer would look at "option 1: HMS Nelson" if HMS nelson was already committed to another part of the campaign or was already sunk or otherwise removed from the roster it would look at "option 2: HMS Rodney" working its way down the list of BB or heavy cruiser units until finally either selecting one that is available or deciding "no ship available - unit un-scripted"

so from there... the computer could easily decide that if none of the 10 secondary ships were available... then it would only be Prince of Wales vs Bismark and Prinz Eugen.

if Prince of Wales was also sunk - then Bismark and Prinz Eugen would sail through the denmark strait unmolested

[A Very Super Market]

Hmm... we (Well, mostly I) are arguing about different subjects. :O:

If that is so, then I am fine with it. Of course, I stand by my other point.

[GoldenRivet]

i completely agree that "what if" senarios would be far too difficult to program.

but "if:then" scenarios would be much easier.

IF: HMS Hood not on Roster - THEN: Use HMS Rodney.

you could have dozens or even hundreds of "If-Then" permutations in the sequence, but only about 7 to 10 would do the trick.

The issue at hand... the Roster cant just say

1. Ammunition Ship
2. Coastal merchant
3. Small Merchant
4. Large Cargo

etc etc

it would have to be specific, naming dozens of... or even a hundred ships per each class

for example

1. Ammunition Ship :: SS. Astoria
2. Ammunition Ship :: SS. Alisha
3. Ammunition Ship :: SS. Brovado

and dozens more before moving onto the next type in the roster

[Annatar]

I would think that pretty much anything under 10,000 tons could be generic, unnamed and untracked. It'd only need be the bigger more identifiable vessels that require the if:then treatment.

[Jimbuna]

Good points by GR and AVSM here but I tend to agree with GR here.....the only potential problem being those that play the game at the easiest level might soon find themselves out of warships to sink. :hmmm:

[GoldenRivet]

Good points by GR and AVSM here but I tend to agree with GR here.....the only potential problem being those that play the game at the easiest level might soon find themselves out of warships to sink. :hmmm:

perhaps some some sort of "regenerate unit roster before each mission" option could be added then? this would force the computer to not delete ships from the roster once they are sunk.

this way the "arcaders" could sink HMS Hood or Illustrious 365 days a year if they wanted to :-?

[Jimbuna]

perhaps some some sort of "regenerate unit roster before each mission" option could be added then? this would force the computer to not delete ships from the roster once they are sunk.

this way the "arcaders" could sink HMS Hood or Illustrious 365 days a year if they wanted to :-?

I'll make a note of that....in case I'm asked http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif