How should I go about learning manual targetting?

[Subnerd]

Hello all!

I am fairly new to SH3 and have been using my weapons officer mostly to aim and fire torpedoes. However I really would like to learn how to do all this myself but really don't know where to start.

I have looked at an online tutorial but it requires all sorts of drawing mods such as protractors with 180 at the top instead of the bottom which I am unable to find.

Is there a simple tutorial not requiring any special mods or downloads which explains how to do this in SH3?

Thanks.

[Pisces]

Here is a version I tweaked a bit to make it more usefull. Really, the inverted compass it too good not to use.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=919104&postcount=1308

You need JSGME to install it. But that goes for pretty much every other mod too.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=141773

Pretty simple. Start the JSGME program once after installation so it makes a MODS folder in Sh3-base folder if there isn't one allready. Close JSGME. Extract the files with folderstructure from my mod into the MODS-folder. (the readme.txt and JPG screenshot isn't neccessary for it to function, just to know what it is about) Start the JSGME again to enable the navmaptools_4_all_lines-mod. And now play SH3 with those mousetool-enhancements.

I know of no tutorials that uses just stock Sh3 functions. Just found this one on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv2qAVM1ALc

[Pepe le Moko]

It isn't all that difficult really to do the targeting yourself and it is a lot more rewarding. The only tricky part is when you have to work out firing solutions on the fly then it can get iffy yes but with the 90° method it is pretty straightforward.

[Subnerd]

Here is a version I tweaked a bit to make it more usefull. Really, the inverted compass it too good not to use.



Thanks a bunch for that Pisces! I really had given up on getting something to be able to use with the Tutorial. I downloaded the tools and they work just fine.

So tonight I will start the tutorial.

Thanks again!:yeah:

[Subnerd]

It isn't all that difficult really to do ......

Unless you got a brain like mine:haha:

I'll sure give it a go anyhow! Wish me luck!

[Pisces]

Found another tutorial that is more according to your wishes. (no added mods)

http://www.kiwisim.net.nz/article.php?story=20050502115439746

But the page I found the link in is also a nice guide:

http://blog.edseek.com/archives/2005/05/04/silent-hunter-iii-survival-guide/

Oh heck, I feel like Santa:

http://www.kiwisim.net.nz/article.php?story=20050513153004891

[Subnerd]

Thanks again Pisces! I don't know why none of these came up in any of my Google searches!

Some great info there to keep me busy for a long time.

[Captain Birdseye]

I've never really tried manual targeting. It seems a bit scary to me, not having a mathematical brain :oops:. I would like to try it some day. I think the maths would let me down though.

[Kasbe]

great links there! I'll have to review them all in detail.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961

This guide helped me a LOT, considering how simple and short it is. Then

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/

seems very interesting too, I am starting to read the manual charting while moving part right now. Im still a newbie at naval sims, but I am guessing that getting a shot at a ship in decent conditions takes way more time than I am used to (thats what you get when you play a lot of quake-style FPS), with all the data gathering, course plotting and torpedo calculations.

Anyways, I think the joy of hearing the "torpedo impact" message and watching the ship sink through the UZO/periscope is priceless when you know YOU did all the job :D

[Pisces]

I've never really tried manual targeting. It seems a bit scary to me, not having a mathematical brain :oops:. I would like to try it some day. I think the maths would let me down though.There's not much math to do really. Most things are just drawing on the map. Or the OLC/ U-jagd tools does everything in the attackscope station. Unless you mean converting between time, speed and distance. Or simple arithmatic (adding/subtracting angles) But there are tools for that (nomograph, Angriffscheibe/attackdisk). If you stick to the methods and procedures everything is dead simple. It does help a bit to know what formulas are behind it, but that is just to provide insight trying to improve accuray. But if it makes you feel better it is allways possible to fire a spread for good measure.

I know it is a daunting step. So make it a small one if it is the first. Start with plotting on the map (asking range and bearing from the Watch officer, or mark the automatic update icons if that step is more your size) and track his course alone. Rely on automatic targeting or leave the firing suggestions to the weapon officer for now. Having figured out his course as a first step will give you a satisfaction that may fuel those (small!) steps towards full manual targeting. It will build your sense of situational awareness.

If you don't trust me, ask Kasbe.

@ Kasbe: :yeah:

[Contact]

I've never really tried manual targeting. It seems a bit scary to me, not having a mathematical brain :oops:. I would like to try it some day. I think the maths would let me down though.

First of all don't rush it.
Approach to it with caution, slowly (read manuals, watch videos) and when you going to feel enough confident in it, that will mean the right time to try it on your own has come :up:

Good luck :yep:

[Captain Birdseye]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I sadly have difficulties learning from text, as would probably happen on this forum. It has to be repeated to me in simpler ways or shown via images. :oops:

I do not understand even the basics of manual targeting, I know nothing of it. They way I hunt at the moment is by guessing the correct bearing and "chasing" the moving map icon til it is within range.

[Hitman]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I sadly have difficulties learning from text, as would probably happen on this forum. It has to be repeated to me in simpler ways or shown via images. :oops:

I do not understand even the basics of manual targeting, I know nothing of it. They way I hunt at the moment is by guessing the correct bearing and "chasing" the moving map icon til it is within range.



You are not the only one LOL ... it's normally what happens to everyone until they have a lot of experience and teh concepts already well written in their minds.

There are some very good videos for learning manual shooting in SH4 by Wernersobe, but I don't remember right now if there were any for SH3, and if they still are around somewhere :hmmm:

[Contact]

I began working on my progress in manual targeting from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv2qAVM1ALc

or more detailed and much more informative here: http://www.3rdflotilla.org/videos/ma...g_navchart.wmv

Ups the second link seems ain't working anymore..

Good Luck :shucks:

[Captain Birdseye]

Hi, thank you for the video!

Sorry to hijack the thread, I didn't mean to.
I guess I could just start a new career and nosedive straight into manual targeting.

Out of interest, how long are the target ships around Germany before the war? These could be useful to practice on.

Again, sorry to the thread starter!

[Contact]

Hi, thank you for the video!

Sorry to hijack the thread, I didn't mean to.
I guess I could just start a new career and nosedive straight into manual targeting.

Out of interest, how long are the target ships around Germany before the war? These could be useful to practice on.

Again, sorry to the thread starter!

As I assume you're a GWX user so these target ships in the bay stays all month in August of 1939. But I recomend you to use Naval academy/ Torpedo tutorial first :)

[Laufen zum Ziel]

http://files.filefront.com/manual+targetting+navchartwmv/;13634236;/fileinfo.html

This works very good. Also great for single ship attacks.
Always make sure that your TDC is back on automatic after you impute speed and aob

[FIREWALL]

Use Single Missions to practice.

Alot of different senarios. :up:

[Contact]

Use Single Missions to practice.

Alot of different senarios. :up:

Alot of different convoys so to speak :DL

[FIREWALL]

To clearup any confuseion about Single Missions being over whether you are successful or not.

As long as you have fuel and torps you can continue hunting.

Go to a different area and sniff around.

Sadly when your out of torps it's GAME OVER. :damn:

No refit at milch cow or friendly port.

Why is this ?

[Pisces]

or more detailed and much more informative here: http://www.3rdflotilla.org/videos/ma...g_navchart.wmv

Ups the second link seems ain't working anymore..

Good Luck :shucks:

http://files.filefront.com/manual+targetting+navchartwmv/;13634236;/fileinfo.html

This works very good. Also great for single ship attacks.
Always make sure that your TDC is back on automatic after you impute speed and aobLooks like they are the same, and made by the 3rd flotilla. Contact's link was corrupt anyway, but their site is down for sure. Good thing Laufen saved a copy of it.

[Captain Birdseye]

That video was great.

Did the guy who recorded it have a gods eye view on the nav map? I'd like to try that out sometime.

Something that did interest me was setting up intercept courses, how do I do this?

I'd like to improve on how I intercept ships. It seems however in that video he had already intercepted, he just set up the attack.

[Pisces]

I'm not sure what 'Gods eye' means in terms of Sh3 options. I think it was just 'no contact updates on map' being unchecked in the realism settings. As soon as the periscope was up he would get updated positions on the map. But when it was down the old ones just stayed there and eventually fade out.

Intercepting, while still well beyond visual contact, is done like in that 'the Hunt' thread, the first link in post 9 of this thread by Kasbe.

Further up in the Hunt thread there is a drawing showing all steps in one:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=280892&postcount=41

I have another intercept technique, but lack the time to prepare the tutorial. The drawing is much simpler and can be used to move around a target in circles while maintaining distance (it's like a polygon since it's short sections of straight moves based upon changed bearings). Or along any relative motion direction you wish assuming you have the speed. Sliding yourself safely into a convoy lane or row is alot simpler now.

[JohnnyBlaze]

I would like to hear more about your technique, Pisces. If you wish to share? :yep:

[Sag75]

Hi Pisces! yeah I'm curious too. :up:

I normally use the circles techniques.. :ping:

[Captain Birdseye]

Thank you very much.

Final question (promise!)

If I use the technique linked to in the hunt thread, how can I use it for contacts that have been radioed in, such as convoys, of which I can't judge speed?

[Pisces]

Thank you very much.

Final question (promise!)

If I use the technique linked to in the hunt thread, how can I use it for contacts that have been radioed in, such as convoys, of which I can't judge speed?First you need to calculate and plot where he is now. If it is a big convoy you get a nice speed value in knots. Except for single units (or small convoys I think), they only have a speed range. I don't know if certain mods changed it from stock Sh3 but in GWX slow is upto 7.5, medium speed is between 7.5 and 11.5 knots, fast is above 11.5 knots. But warships are different ranges. I'm pretty sure about those halve knots. I tracked them for a long time and speeds like 7.6 or a bit faster were medium speed targets. It seems the speed settings of waypoints are rounded first to the nearest knot, before it is assigned to a speed range (8kts and 12 knots in Sh3\data\Cfg\config.cfg). So, calculate distance moved based on time since the contact-icon/radio message appeared, and the speed. (worst-case if it is a speedrange, then you'll allways arive early) Remember kilometers are different from knots, 1 knot = 1 nautical mile/ hour = 1.852 kilometer/hour)

Courses are stated as N, NNE, NE, ENE, E, etc. Those are steps of 22.5 degrees. But could mean any course within 11.25 degrees on either side of it. At about 175 km along the path this course-uncertainty is as wide as your hydrophone range. So it is important to find it before it gets there if you don't want it to escape from you.

So plot the distance moved along the courseline. Draw a line to it from your current position and then do the intercept drawing based on that assumed target position.

If it was based on a speed-range, and you finally get on his central course-line you may have to wait quite a while before it enters your hydrophone range (34km). I usually move towards him while doing frequent hydrophone checks myself. The crew is too dumb to ever find it if it is on the outer edges of it.

Pfew, that's allready big part of what I wanted to say in that tutorial. Unfortunately that juicy intercept drawing really looks best if done with the ingame drawing tools. But I'm not going on a new patrol before it is done.

[XLjedi]

Insert shameless MoBo plug... :D

10th Patrol of U53 - Radio Contact Intercept (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121786)

In this SH3 patrol report, I happen to explain (with lots of pictures) how I got from an initial radio contact to a sinking ship using MoBo and basic Fast-90 manual targeting.

Of course, you don't have to use MoBo... I just like to. :03:

Most of the report relates to approach. The entry for time 17:38 shows specifically how to set the TDC manually on the attack map for the typical Fast-90 setup.

[Captain Birdseye]

Thank you both, both accounts are extremely useful.

Aaronblood, how does MoBo determine an intercept point? Does it recognise course and speed of the target and the u-boat or must it be done manually?


Thank you.

[Laufen zum Ziel]

Check the SHIII Printable game aids at SS Downloads. Not sure but I think there are some aids on Nav/targetting there.

[Contact]

Thank you both, both accounts are extremely useful.

Aaronblood, how does MoBo determine an intercept point? Does it recognise course and speed of the target and the u-boat or must it be done manually?


Thank you.

Aaronblood shut up, noob! :DL. Captain Birdseye don't use that mobo s***, learn it yourself. It's not that hard really. :up:

[XLjedi]

Aaronblood, how does MoBo determine an intercept point? Does it recognise course and speed of the target and the u-boat or must it be done manually?

http://www.xl-logic.com/mobo/tutorial_pics/intercept_20070731.png

If you plot ownship and target position along with speed/heading vectors. MoBo can automatically give you that red dotted line with the "X" that marks the point of intercept. Takes me about 5 seconds.

You can do manual intercepts with MoBo, it just takes longer to draw. :yawn: And if you're going to do that, you might just as well use the in-game drawing tools.

If you really want to know the pure math formula(s) behind an intercept, I have it in an Excel workbook here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121696

[Captain Birdseye]

Thanks Aaron.

I think i'll follow the simplified picture Pisces provided in that link, and if I have more difficulties, I shall follow MoBo.

Once I master this part of the manual input, it's on to tragetting then I can be a pro kaleun!

[Otto Heinzmeir]

Sounds like all the info needed has been posted alredy. Here is my shameless self promotion of my tutorial in link below.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149414&highlight=manual+targeting+tutorial

Is there anyway to convert my tutorial into a pdf so I upload it to subsim?

As far as interception, the hunt thread by Wasserman covers that well. Interception isn't much different than plotting the targets course and speed.If I sight the target at say 9500m. I gets its course and speed and then extend its track out about 20k. I generally set a course to intercept the target about 12k to 15k down its track. Distance depends on how fast the target is traveling. I need to get in position without getting too close that the target can sight me. This distance varies by mod and weather but is generally 6500m during a clear day.

[XLjedi]

Is there anyway to convert my tutorial into a pdf so I upload it to subsim?

In fact there is... in the new download section here at SubSim look in the utilities area for the "CuteWriter" download.

It's basically a freeware printer driver for producing PDF docs with any application.

Edit: here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1011

[Otto Heinzmeir]

In fact there is... in the new download section here at SubSim look in the utilities area for the "CuteWriter" download.

It's basically a freeware printer driver for producing PDF docs with any application.

Edit: here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1011

Hey, thanks! :D

[Sailor Steve]

The other thing you could do is put whatever doc format it's in into a compressed folder. If it's only a few kilobytes the Downloads section won't care.

[XLjedi]

The other thing you could do is put whatever doc format it's in into a compressed folder. If it's only a few kilobytes the Downloads section won't care.

We should have a place in the downloads section under each game for tutorials and game aids dontcha think?

[Pisces]

We should have a place in the downloads section under each game for tutorials and game aids dontcha think?
Yes, I agree. The things like the attack disk/ sliderulers/ nomograph or your Mobo tool is what I missed when I checked what was uploaded. Who is a download-moderator thesedays?

[XLjedi]

Yes, I agree. The things like the attack disk/ sliderulers/ nomograph or your Mobo tool is what I missed when I checked what was uploaded. Who is a download-moderator thesedays?

I did PM it to Neal and Sailor Steve (Neal has final say).

But...

What Steve pointed out to me was that tutorials, game aids and stuff just fall under the "general" game category, which is unnamed. I didn't even realize you could post downloads at that level, I thought you had to select one of the sub-categories to post.

And all the stuff you mention including MoBo are appropriately listed in the Utilities section because they are not game specific. In fact, I was the one who asked Neal for a non-game specific area that I could put MoBo in so more people would find it. Actually I wanted a MoBo sub-directory under utilities, but there's not too much else in there right now.

The other thing that would really help folks would be to get a larger listing of the top downloads. If you could scan the top 50 or so, for instance, you'd have a better idea of what files/mods people are using and you'd be less likely to miss out on something.