Effective patrolling methods

[Paul Riley]

Greetings fellow captains.

Its been a while since I used this forum,but here I am again,and seeking a little advice too.I am in need of some advice regarding patrols and how to effectively patrol a given area,in an effort to increase your chance of finding your intended target.In my patrol at the moment the date is Sept 28th 1942 and I was given the sector AK66.It was clear to me that my primary target on this patrol would be the Halifax to Liverpool convoys,with a secondary target being the single merchant lane to the south.I patrolled the area for a few days before deciding that nothing was going to pass this way,so after about 48hrs I moved along the suspected convoy lane into my new patrol sector of AK48.I chose this area largely because of the lack of air cover in this area,known as the 'air gap' if I recall correctly.Now I have calculated that it would take a convoy travelling at no more than 8kts to reach this position in approx 10 days or so,or a maximum of 2 weeks rounded up,this then would be my new patrol objective,to find this convoy and harass it as it heads east for as long as possible.I have just reached AK48 and set my uboat up facing roughly SW and at a depth of 50m.What I normally do is leave the uboat in its current position and surface only for air,then dive again so I can use the hydrophones.This tactic however has its obvious drawback,what if the convoy moves on a lane say 20 or 40km away from this area?,there would be no way of knowing.I now want to start ACTIVELY patrolling areas increasing my chances of bumping into an incoming convoy,but what are the best methods for doing this?.I am thinking of acting like a 'recce' line going across the suspected convoy route,for example,I draw one 20km circle on each side of the convoy line and move through to the centre of the 1st one,then dive and make a quick sound check,then move to the edge of the circle and make another SC,then return and repeat while heading into the 2nd circle and repeat the previous.This effectively allows me to cover a 20x40km (800 sq/km) section of ocean.The main problem though is fuel,and to patrol like this for 2 weeks demands a vast amount of fuel which I have calculated already by the way,and means I had to travel into this area at only 8kts,to conserve fuel.
Is this a viable option?.I would love to hear some of your patrol methods.
If this fails,I am thinking of a long and tedious voyage right to Halifax,and then follow the convoy into AK48,now that HAS to work!.It would probably be November by then and the crew may all be dead from exhaustion,me included. :o

Cheers!. :salute:

[irish1958]

Only methods to increase contacts
1) Better intelligence (in game via "spy satellite" or via tracking room mod).
2) Play with low realism and unlimited fuel.
3) Employ various cheats.
4) Develop a mod to employ Wolf Packs as this was the method BDU used with spectacular results in early 1943.
In any event, the war in the Atlantic is over in April 1943, and all U-boats are recalled.

[Paul Riley]

Thanks Irish.

Regarding-

1: A spy satellite,is this appropriate for the time period?,and how does it work exactly?.

2: I cant play on low settings,i'm a sucker for realism and play in an Ironman mode,death means death,etc.

3: Cheats,again,not appropriate for me,but maybe for those that want a more 'arcade machine' type of game.

4: This one interests me,and I have read about the wolf packs in a couple of books I have,and were very effective yes,being able to co-ordinate an attack and converge for the kill.They too formed a recce across the convoy path to increase their chances of making contact with it.Can you tell me the exact steps I need to take to implement this in my game,and the mods I need?.I currently play using the 1.4 patch with Commander installed also.I would consider this for a future career maybe,but not this one as I am in an active career and want to see the war through at least once first.

One last thing,do you know of anyone that has formed their own ocean cartography,you know,like convoy co ordinates,dates/times of departure etc?.I have a current list of past co ordinates of contacts and sinkings,but no fixed ones for convoys.Since 1939 I have yet to engage in a successful attack on a full blown convoy,most attacks being on single merchants,tankers etc,and the odd warship if I feel particularly daring that day.

Thanks again.

[irish1958]

1) Spy satellite is a cheat; nothing like this was available in WWII. SH3Gen is a mod which mines the campaign files and will give you a varying degree of intelligence, which is very much like it was in WWII. I use this and find it realistic.
2) Then you will run out of fuel and supplies just like it happened in WWII. By 1943 all the supply ships were gone and the Milk Cows were sunk.
3) Many play this way. It is especially important in multiplayer games.
4) Everybody hopes this will be available in SH5, which is currently in development. The development of such a mod has evaded many very talented modelers.

[Pisces]

As an alternative to 1) you could increase the reporting range of mapcontacts:

"Display Range To Opportunity Radio Contacts" or "Display Range To Important Radio Contacts" in Sh3/data/cfg/contacts.cfg

I'm not sure what the diference is between them though. Probably "Opportunity" are lone vessels, and "Important" are convoys.

Getting a contact reported still depends on chance. But the game doesn't limit them based on the range to your uboat.

[Edit]Some time ago I worked out what the best hydrophone interval was to not let a target escape your attention. Or atleast with minimal chance.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1021427&postcount=27

[Paul Riley]

Thanks for the replies.

What I was really after though is ideas on good solid patrolling methods,as in specific patrol lines/patterns,and their distance etc,and how long they should realistically be carried out for before you realise that nothing is going to come that way.But what I would REALLY like is a link to any such material on the web,authentic material written by the captains themselves,how they patrolled and what patterns if any they employed.Its possible that the following book 'the uboat commander's handbook' may contain such info,but it appears quite a rare book and is hard to get hold of in the UK.I believe most of it was compiled by Doenitz himself from his early actions in WWI through to the modern tactics in WWII.I would really like to get into this book.I DO have Iron Coffins which I really enjoyed,but the other book is very specific about tactics and technical data.

Cheers.

[RoaldLarsen]

Thanks for the replies.

What I was really after though is ideas on good solid patrolling methods,as in specific patrol lines/patterns,and their distance etc,and how long they should realistically be carried out for before you realise that nothing is going to come that way.But what I would REALLY like is a link to any such material on the web,authentic material written by the captains themselves,how they patrolled and what patterns if any they employed.Its possible that the following book 'the uboat commander's handbook' may contain such info,but it appears quite a rare book and is hard to get hold of in the UK.I believe most of it was compiled by Doenitz himself from his early actions in WWI through to the modern tactics in WWII.I would really like to get into this book.I DO have Iron Coffins which I really enjoyed,but the other book is very specific about tactics and technical data.

Cheers.

Much of the most effective patrolling methods were employed by wolfpacks. Unfortunately, the game just doesn't model these (perhaps the biggest failing of SH3).

The best advice I can give you comes from the in-game capablities of the sub. To maximize the number of contacts found, submerge, stop, listen on the hydrophones, surface, sprint at highest speed for about 20km, repeat. Probably most effective in lines perpendicular to expected route of convoy.

This is not necessarily what you should do, because it is not the safest behaviour, nor does it necessarly replicate what u-boats actually did. Also, it will result in more contacts than occurred historically.

I think that the game is (im-?)balanced in such a way as to encourage greater reliance on the hydrophone rather than the eyeball for making contacts. I have the impression that IRL the reverse was true.

I don't think there is any reason to think, after waiting a certain amount of time at a spot , that not having seen anythign yet indicates you won't see anything in the future, if you are near a convoy route. OTOH, if you are in some remote backwater, and nothing shows up after a while, it is probably safe to assume that nothing has been scripted to appear in that area.

[Paul Riley]

Thanks a lot RoaldLarson,

Quite helpful,the 20km dash you described,its akin to what I was doing previous,I draw a 20km circle either side of the expected route,and move to the centre of the 1st,dive,listen,surface,move to the edge,repeat,then move onto the 2nd circle and repeat all the previous,however I only do it at the convoy's expected speed,say no more than 8kts.This is not practical at all the more I think of it,because while I am patrolling the 1st cirlce at 8kts,a target could move through the 2nd circle and be gone by the time I reach that area.Your high speed patrolling sounds more effective,but wouldnt this sap fuel much quicker?,which could be better saved for extended patrols that could go into weeks?.
I am confident I may be on the AK48 route,according to the game map that is,but we shall see.
I just wish there was some info on the web,i'd like to know more about patrol tactics.

Well,thanks again for the reply.

[RoaldLarsen]

Your high speed patrolling sounds more effective,but wouldnt this sap fuel much quicker?,which could be better saved for extended patrols that could go into weeks?.
Yes. So while it may maximize contacts gained per unit of time, it may not maximize total contacts, because the amount of available time will be reduced.

I am confident I may be on the AK48 route,according to the game map that is,but we shall see.

In the game, convoys follow a scripted set of waypoints from their start to finish ponts. However, the locations of the intermediate waypoints for a given convoy are randomized within a scripted radius. Because convoys randomize their routes, being perhaps hundreds of kilometres from a given waypoint, one can never be confident that one is on the path of a given convoy unless one has a recent sighting report.

I just wish there was some info on the web,i'd like to know more about patrol tactics.

Well,thanks again for the reply.I have run across descriptions of wolfpack search techniques and search patterns used by surface vessels after losing contact with a u-boat, but I have never read anything that described search patterns used by single u-boats.

What the wolfpacks would try to do was form a line on the surface, perpendicular to the expected path of a convoy, and spaced so that the distance between boats was equal to the diameter of the circle of visual range of a boat. The line would then move towards the expected convoy, maintaining spacing, until a contact was made. Often the spacing had to be greater than optimal, due to a shortage of boats.

The best approximation of this that a single boat can make is to patrol in a line perpendicular to the path of the convoy. I am not sure what the optimal length of that line should be, but I would guess that a large fraction of the total possible displacement from the convoy's nominal course would be better than a small fraction. I tend to use lines about 100km long.

In AK48, I'd start in the SE corner and run 100km or so on a course of 330, then go about 20km on 240, 100km on 150, then complete the box and repeat. Speed and portion spent submerged would be dictated mostly by fuel state and expectation of aircraft.

[Paul Riley]

Thanks again Roald.

I'll let you know how I go in a few days about this current patrol,if nothing,i'll have to break off and head back to base along the route and drop down near to the single merchant lane to the South,as it will be almost November 42 by then,and god knows what the allies may have developed,and I don't want to know :o
I know one thing,I want a decent bloody radar set instead of Fumo29,its practically useless as it only covers a 10 degree arc to the front.I only ever found a possible use for it in low visibility situations and at night,and only when I am sure i'm free of the air zone/s.Regarding air zones,would you agree that the maximum range of bombers in 42 would be approx 1700km?,as when i'm greater than this distance air attacks practically stop,but naturally as I get closer to the bay of Biscay its like trying to breathe while being continually whacked in the gut by a silverback gorrilla!
:salute:

[RoaldLarsen]

I know one thing,I want a decent bloody radar set instead of Fumo29,its practically useless as it only covers a 10 degree arc to the front.I only ever found a possible use for it in low visibility situations and at night,and only when I am sure i'm free of the air zone/s.Regarding air zones,would you agree that the maximum range of bombers in 42 would be approx 1700km?,as when i'm greater than this distance air attacks practically stop,but naturally as I get closer to the bay of Biscay its like trying to breathe while being continually whacked in the gut by a silverback gorrilla!
:salute:
Your description sounds about right. I'm in 1944 now, and Biscay seems to have more air traffic than O'Hare on a Friday afternoon. Air coverage seems to get worse from '43 on.

Radar is about the last thing I upgrade on a boat. It will give your position away. I only use it to find lone merchants in heavy fog, when a hydrophone check has confirmed there are no warships about.

[mainexpress]

This might be an off topic question,but have any of you kaleuns,do a career or a single patrol with no time compression,im talking full blown 100% realism.It sounds crazy but if you have the time,its really fun and it adds that much more realism to the game,the only down part is it takes forever to complete a patrol.but if you have tons of grammy tunes it surely helps.

[Torplexed]

This might be an off topic question,but have any of you kaleuns,do a career or a single patrol with no time compression,im talking full blown 100% realism.It sounds crazy but if you have the time,its really fun and it adds that much more realism to the game,the only down part is it takes forever to complete a patrol.but if you have tons of grammy tunes it surely helps.

Some have done the 1x patrols...but it's a huge time investment. What games like this need is something besides some vintage tunes to fill the huge void when nothing is happening. Perhaps finely training the crew and weeding out the unmotivated members can be incorporated as a game within the game, where you don't know beforehand who's going to be a keeper and who isn't.

As big as the Atlantic is I can't imagine a SH4 Pacific patrol at x1. It's a three week trip from Pearl Harbor just to reach Japan....

[Cue-Ball909]

Some have done the 1x patrols...but it's a huge time investment. What games like this need is something besides some vintage tunes to fill the huge void when nothing is happening. Perhaps finely training the crew and weeding out the unmotivated members can be incorporated as a game within the game, where you don't know beforehand who's going to be a keeper and who isn't.I think you hit the nail on the head, there. Even with time compression, a lot of the things that you read about happening in real life just aren't there in the game. Obviously, the developers can't include everything. But some of the "feel" of being there just isn't reproduced. Once you get a contact and start the hunt, it's very immersive. But during those other times I find myself thinking "hurry up and find a ship already"!

I'm not sure that modelling throwing out rotten food and sleeping in a wet, sweat-stank bed would be all that compelling, but more interaction with the crew would be nice. I'd like to see the chaps taking apart the eels to check them, talk to the guys in the diesel room about how things are running, etc. Another thing is that we always know right where we are. There's no need to shoot the stars, worry about currents, deal with breakdowns, etc.

Obviously, it's a lot easier to ask for these things than it is to program them, but we really do need more to do between contacts (shuffling people to and from the engine room doesn't count).

[Task Force]

I myself try to stay around the western approaches(above ireland) and eastern england.(until america joins in.)

[sharkbit]

This might be an off topic question,but have any of you kaleuns,do a career or a single patrol with no time compression,im talking full blown 100% realism.It sounds crazy but if you have the time,its really fun and it adds that much more realism to the game,the only down part is it takes forever to complete a patrol.but if you have tons of grammy tunes it surely helps.

Goldenrivet has done one and did a couple of threads about it a while back. Made for some interesting reading. Search for it and you will probably find it.
:)

[mainexpress]

Goldenrivet has done one and did a couple of threads about it a while back. Made for some interesting reading. Search for it and you will probably find it.
:)Thanks shark,and i agree with what you guys said about more crew interaction in the downtime on a patrol,before getting contacts,that would be too cool,if the silent hunter series could have that someday.maybe silent hunter 7 lol...

[gimpy117]

best one so far is 0% realism...

on a serious note...I use the ol' lay and wait...let them come to you...no sense making a racket trying to catch up...

[Huncowboy]

Your description sounds about right. I'm in 1944 now, and Biscay seems to have more air traffic than O'Hare on a Friday afternoon.

Lol ORD. Fun place. Best is when you land as an FO and your nose wheel is still in the air but you are handing over control to your Captain already because you are being given rapid and complex taxi instructions from ground LOL... Sorry did not mean to go off topic.

I got to this thread for the same reasons. I am in late 1940, just went from fleet 1 to 2 and doing my first patrol out of Lorient in a type VIIC. My last patrol still around GB resulted in 35k. That is alright. But now I am sent to CF49 I think it is. There is nothing going on there. I am trying fishing on a convoy line that runs South then turns into Gibraltar. Real boring.