View Full Version : Enemy escorts
Seem to be REEEAALLLYY incompetent!! I'm using Kakemann's improved escorts ver 1.4 but it dosent seem to help them at all..Is there a better one for SH4 1.4?:hmmm:
Well--I'd have to recommend RFB for 1.4 (also modded in 1.5x). The issue with stock escorts is their active sonar range is too short. (My opinion). If you go deep and under the layer, the poor little guys really don't stand a chance. In RFB the ranges have been extended while still making evasion doable. It all depends on what you run into for crew quality of the escorts and the weather conditions--both huge factors.
Or you can go here:
http://files.filefront.com/Prolonged+DC+Attack+117z/;9205892;/fileinfo.html
and down load my original modded AI_sensors file. It should work well with stock 1.4 as it's what I originally tested it with.
:salute:
gimpy117
04-12-09, 12:25 AM
yea I'm running FOTRS and they're still chumps
aircraft are mighty deadly and annoying now though! so many of them...so many!
Lord Kelvin
04-12-09, 12:57 AM
As general protocol I always duck under the layer right after throwing a spread of fish at my target(s), whenever escorts are nearby, then creep away at 2/3 speed on Silent Running, while praying. It's not that I don't want to give them a chance, it's just that it's unpredictable at times, and once I had some depth charges dropped right onto my propellers...
Webster
04-12-09, 02:48 AM
clay the escorts arent weak your just talented :D
you can try using the sensors_AI.dat from TMO and that should make them tougher.
just creat a file structure to add it as a seperate mod then if your not happy you can tweak it yourself.
Thank you all as always you are the greatest...I will try them all...:yeah:
Rockin Robbins
04-12-09, 04:37 PM
clay the escorts arent weak your just talented :D
you can try using the sensors_AI.dat from TMO and that should make them tougher.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/what.gifhttp://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/giggle.gif
Soundman
04-13-09, 11:57 AM
I will confer, the escorts in TMO are VERY challenging. Often times, a little bit too tough. Sometimes you will swear they must have some kind of superpowers, X-ray vision or Los Angeles Class sonar, and you'll say to yourself "Aw,,,come on now, there's no way that guy could... yada yada yada!" I think you get the idea. :D
SteamWake
04-13-09, 12:41 PM
The DD's seem to come in three flavors.
Dumb as a brick and oblivous to situational awarness.
Not quite as dumb and relatively aware yet easly evaded.
and last but not least "Bringers of death, unshakeable, bongo petes" the last can evidently only be defeated when they run out of DC's..
Oh I run RSRD and TMO
The DD's seem to come in three flavors.
Dumb as a brick and oblivous to situational awarness.
Not quite as dumb and relatively aware yet easly evaded.
and last but not least "Bringers of death, unshakeable, bongo petes" the last can evidently only be defeated when they run out of DC's..
Oh I run RSRD and TMO
Agreed. In my testing with AI sonars, I came to the conclusion that Competent escorts aren't really competent. Many times they'll just park and listen when the action starts. Poor or Novice crews serve only as targets. Veteran and Elite are a whole new kettle of trouble soup though and both can be a buggar to "dissuade". I was once held down for 8 hours by a pair of Elites (a very extreme case). But 2-3 hours isn't that unusual when you meet them.
It's all about escort crew quality and weather conditions...
AVGWarhawk
04-13-09, 02:51 PM
Peto speaks the truth! I had some with a tow line to the stern of my sub and I seem to be pulling them right after me :-?
NEON DEON
04-13-09, 03:37 PM
Peto speaks the truth! I had some with a tow line to the stern of my sub and I seem to be pulling them right after me :-?
:rotfl::rotfl:
:gulp:
Swim for it!
Thats great guys..I'm dumb and have no idea what I'm doing and I can defeat them.I cant use any of the big mods because they conflict with the mod I have made for myself.....:yawn:
magic452
04-13-09, 05:22 PM
I saw a new one yesterday. A DD made a run right on top of me, slowed to a stop dropping DC's when stopped, then BACKED up still dropping DC's, than pulled forward and DC me to death.
OK so I cheated and used the ext. cam, but it was unreal to say the least.
He was right over the DC's when they went off.
Magic
SH4 1.5 TMO 163
Thats great guys..I'm dumb and have no idea what I'm doing and I can defeat them.I cant use any of the big mods because they conflict with the mod I have made for myself.....:yawn:
PM4U
Webster
04-13-09, 05:41 PM
Thats great guys..I'm dumb and have no idea what I'm doing and I can defeat them.I cant use any of the big mods because they conflict with the mod I have made for myself.....:yawn:
well a solution to that is to mod the big mods by adding your changes to there files.
you got nothin to lose tryin it and if it causes issues then you know youcant mix them.
AVGWarhawk
04-13-09, 06:18 PM
PM4U
I just knew you would send Clay a nice PM with some help:D :yeah:
I just knew you would send Clay a nice PM with some help:D :yeah:
What can I say? I'm a big fan of sonar :woot:!!!
Akula4745
04-13-09, 08:58 PM
Poor or Novice crews serve only as targets. Veteran and Elite are a whole new kettle of trouble soup though and both can be a buggar to "dissuade". I was once held down for 8 hours by a pair of Elites (a very extreme case). But 2-3 hours isn't that unusual when you meet them.
It's all about escort crew quality and weather conditions...
Peto, is there a way to determine crew quality other than from behavior and tactics?
Look at the campaign files. In the stock campaign, all the convoy escorts are set dumb as stumps. Poor/Novice. Might as well disarm them, they are nothing more than targets.
The Task force DDs are more variable, and in fact late in the war all become elite. The Akizuki is also grossly over-represented. There are more in the stock campaign in the initial japanese invasions that ever existed by a factor of 5 or 6. Particularly interesting since there were actually ZERO in service at that time, lol.
You can't base anything on the stock campaign, it is abysmal.
well a solution to that is to mod the big mods by adding your changes to there files.
you got nothin to lose tryin it and if it causes issues then you know youcant mix them.
You must have me mixed up with someone with a brain....:haha::haha::har:
Peto, is there a way to determine crew quality other than from behavior and tactics?
Not really. That's the "joy" of it though. You don't know what flavor you have until you bite into the piece of chocolate :03:!
Webster
04-13-09, 10:49 PM
You must have me mixed up with someone with a brain....:haha::haha::har:
clay your mod will work with any other mod unless they have the very exact same file in their mod that you have in yours. if that is the case you may not know what "they" did to their file but you "do" know what you did to that file in your mod in the same way you modded the stock file to make your mod you instead take their file that has already been modded and add the changes you need to make your mod do what it was doing.
all your doing is making another copy of your mod as if you were starting over but instead of using all stock files you put in those files from their mod that you need to share. :salute:
while your responding i have a question for you, what are the environmental mods that are used for v1.4?
i asked about this in the forum and never got any response at all to this question.
so do you not use any env mods for v1.4? are they only available built into v1.4tmo and v1.4rfb?
Akula4745
04-13-09, 10:54 PM
Not really. That's the "joy" of it though. You don't know what flavor you have until you bite into the piece of chocolate :03:!
LOL What a great analogy!! Thanks sir.
MonTana_Prussian
04-13-09, 11:16 PM
LOL What a great analogy!! Thanks sir.
And it's a whole new ballgame when you get into RFB and,so I'm told.TMO.
Akula4745
04-14-09, 06:33 AM
Yes sir, Montana... still waiting on the new PC - but I should be getting it tomorrow (Wednesday). Then I will finish a few more missions in the stock build (v1.14) and move to RSRDC and RFB... then you'll probably see me get my butt kicked a few times by the escorts! I am actually looking forward to it... LOL
kiwi_2005
04-14-09, 06:35 AM
TMO. In Duciumus readme you can make the escorts more ubur by making slight changes, still its a hit & miss, at times im kept down and chased while been heavily pounded by DC's where other times the escorts are that stupid i could surface and attack them and they will probably all panic and run off! Still by far its beats playing the stock sh4.
MonTana_Prussian
04-14-09, 08:46 AM
Yes sir, Montana... still waiting on the new PC - but I should be getting it tomorrow (Wednesday). Then I will finish a few more missions in the stock build (v1.14) and move to RSRDC and RFB... then you'll probably see me get my butt kicked a few times by the escorts! I am actually looking forward to it... LOL
Akula,I think you'll really like the RFB/RSRDC combo,I sure do. :cool:
clay your mod will work with any other mod unless they have the very exact same file in their mod that you have in yours. if that is the case you may not know what "they" did to their file but you "do" know what you did to that file in your mod in the same way you modded the stock file to make your mod you instead take their file that has already been modded and add the changes you need to make your mod do what it was doing.
all your doing is making another copy of your mod as if you were starting over but instead of using all stock files you put in those files from their mod that you need to share. :salute:
while your responding i have a question for you, what are the environmental mods that are used for v1.4?
i asked about this in the forum and never got any response at all to this question.
so do you not use any env mods for v1.4? are they only available built into v1.4tmo and v1.4rfb?
Webster I'm using the "new environment mod"....Sorry I didnt see your question....
Webster
04-14-09, 01:40 PM
Webster I'm using the "new environment mod"....Sorry I didnt see your question....
ok so it works for both games then, thats great but some of those files are different for both games. i guess the german stuff just sits there unused and doesnt hurt anything.
This is absolutely ridiculous I ran into a jap task force 350 miles NW of Midway with 3 ise battleships.1 aircraft carrier and 4 DD's.I have already sunk 2 of the battleships..On the run in to the 2nd one.One of the DD's drove right over me and I was at periscope depth at flank and he never slowed down......:har:
AVGWarhawk
04-14-09, 05:36 PM
Clay, did you get he PM from Peto?
Yes I have Hawk,I answered him this morning and he hasnt had time to get back to me yet.I wanted to try Websters idea and try to incorparate my mod with one of the big ones but I cant find TMO for 1.4 anyplace...:hmmm:..I found RFB for 1.4 and am looking at the files....
Potential stooopid escorts fixed (PM).
:salute:
Potential stooopid escorts fixed (PM).
:salute:
:yeah::yeah:
AVGWarhawk
04-15-09, 12:30 PM
Potential stooopid escorts fixed (PM).
:salute:
:yep:
Welcome to Escort Underground!
:yep:
Welcome to Escort Underground!
I'm sure the new file will fix them,just havent had a chance to try it yet.....:sunny:
Webster
04-16-09, 12:31 AM
this is from TMO read me:
9.) The AI is too easy!!
If you feel the AI is too easy to evade, go to the file data/cfg/sim.cfg. In the [sonar] section, change
"Enemy surface factor=200" to a value of 150 instead of 200. That should slighly increase difficulty in evading the AI.
10.) The AI is too hard!!!
Go to this file again.
/data/cfg/sim.cfg
and change the Hydrophone Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation from 2 to 3. Then change the sonar Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation from 3 to 5. Easy mode and dumber AI should be yours again.
Webster
04-16-09, 01:25 AM
Yes I have Hawk,I answered him this morning and he hasnt had time to get back to me yet.I wanted to try Websters idea and try to incorparate my mod with one of the big ones but I cant find TMO for 1.4 anyplace...:hmmm:..I found RFB for 1.4 and am looking at the files....
good news clay, i found TMO for v1.4 in my backup files.
i uploaded it for you, find it here: http://files.filefront.com/Trigger+Maru+Overhauled+f47z/;13606976;/fileinfo.html
Webster you are the best!!:yeah:.Thank you so much....:sunny:I'm stalking a jap task force now so soon we will see how the escorts are with Petos file.....:hmmm:....Well I just caught the task force and snuck up behind a DD and sunk him...
The DDs in TMO are in my opinion just about perfect. There appears to be a decent mix of unskilled DD captains with a few superstars thrown in.
I find the skill level keeps the game and the challenge fresh. While it may not seem "realistic" that sometimes a DD will pick you up at PD from over 2 miles away. I also don't find it realistic that I can always approach a convoy at PD at 1 knot and never get detected like I can in stock.
Last night I had a running 48 hour battle with a six ship convoy with two particularly aggressive DD captains. The convy took major course changes (>50 degrees) every 10-15NM along with the normal in course zig zagging. Three times I set up an end around 8nm before the convoy would reach me it would change course from SE to SW or vice versa.
The DDS were persistent, dogged, and effective. Twice detecting me before I could get a shot off.
I had ten fish when the engagement began and when I finally disengaged I only had sunk one Nippon Maru and damaged two Ryuu Marus. My tonnage vs torpedoe expenditure was abyssmal but it was the most satisfying 10k tons I've sunk in the game so far.
Well I caught up with the TF/convoy,not sure and sunk two of the escorts and the other two are doing a pretty aggressive job of hunting me..:up:
:hmmm: Maybe I'll cheer for the escorts this time... :hmmm:
:haha:
:hmmm: Maybe I'll cheer for the escorts this time... :hmmm:
:haha:
http://bestsmileys.com/handicap/2.gif
Well I spoke too soon bud..Went back and sunk the 3rd DD and 9 merchents...I'm going to start working on another mod..Going to try combineing RFB and my mod and see what happens..It will take me awhile to do...:yawn:
Have fun with the modding but beware! :shifty: Some people find it addictive!
Good Hunting!
:salute:
AVGWarhawk
04-17-09, 09:04 AM
I'm starting to think Clay is a fatalist and does not want to return to port:hmmm:
I'm starting to think Clay is a fatalist and does not want to return to port:hmmm:
That can be arranged :03:.
AVGWarhawk
04-17-09, 12:21 PM
That can be arranged :03:.
This I know:o
I'm starting to think Clay is a fatalist and does not want to return to port:hmmm:
I dont know about "fatalist" maby just fatal to the crew....:haha:
well a solution to that is to mod the big mods by adding your changes to there files.
you got nothin to lose tryin it and if it causes issues then you know youcant mix them.
I did it!!! And it seems to work great...:haha:
Webster
04-17-09, 11:50 PM
I did it!!! And it seems to work great...:haha:
clayp the new master modder :woot: :salute:
i told you its easy as long as you dont talk yourself out of trying to do it. :up:
hell im dumb as a stump and i manage so i know you can do it too.
AVGWarhawk
04-18-09, 06:01 AM
I dont know about "fatalist" maby just fatal to the crew....:haha:
No wonder the crew looks at you like you're a lunatic:O:
No wonder the crew looks at you like you're a lunatic:O:
:har:
gimpy117
04-18-09, 10:48 PM
Here's what I have to sat about escorts in stock..take it away Captain!!
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/picard-facepalm.jpg
Folducker
04-19-09, 10:41 PM
I drew the east China sea, for the third time, and ambushed a small convoy, one medium passenger ship escorted by two destroyers. It wasn’t easy, but I managed to sink the passenger ship and took out one of the escorts. Took a while, but also managed to slip the other escort without damage. My experience is that hanging around the spot where you have sunk ships is not a good idea, as it seems there are increased air patrols. So, I headed North. Set up a search pattern, and picked up a something on radar. It was moving slowly, I thought it was a fishing boat or a lifeboat as it gave no sound signature, so I ignored it. (As a rule I don’t usually attack sampans or fishing boats, hey, everyone has to make a living). In the course of my search grid, this thing kept appearing over the course of a day. I finally decided to check it out. Got to within about 12 miles, went to periscope depth. Just before getting a visual, I went to silent running. Imagine my surprise when I finally got a visual, and see it was a DESTROYER! He was just sitting there, every so often he would move just enough to throw off any solution. I got the hell out of Dodge. Next convoy I ambushed, one of he escorts tried to do the same thing. Just sat there not making any noise. First time I had ever run into that.
I drew the east China sea, for the third time, and ambushed a small convoy, one medium passenger ship escorted by two destroyers. It wasn’t easy, but I managed to sink the passenger ship and took out one of the escorts. Took a while, but also managed to slip the other escort without damage. My experience is that hanging around the spot where you have sunk ships is not a good idea, as it seems there are increased air patrols. So, I headed North. Set up a search pattern, and picked up a something on radar. It was moving slowly, I thought it was a fishing boat or a lifeboat as it gave no sound signature, so I ignored it. (As a rule I don’t usually attack sampans or fishing boats, hey, everyone has to make a living). In the course of my search grid, this thing kept appearing over the course of a day. I finally decided to check it out. Got to within about 12 miles, went to periscope depth. Just before getting a visual, I went to silent running. Imagine my surprise when I finally got a visual, and see it was a DESTROYER! He was just sitting there, every so often he would move just enough to throw off any solution. I got the hell out of Dodge. Next convoy I ambushed, one of he escorts tried to do the same thing. Just sat there not making any noise. First time I had ever run into that.
Sneaky little buggers...:hmmm:
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