Type VII used for transporting the Ark

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

Watched Raiders of the Lost Ark today. Noticed they used a Type VII to offload the Ark of the Convenant from the cargo ship to the Nazi's secret island Uboat base in the Indian Ocean. It brought to mind several complications and questions.

The Ark is pretty big,estimating 8 feet long by four feet wide and five feet tall. I can't see how they could get that inside a Type VII. What probably didn't make it into the movie, is a custom hatch had to be cut into the topside of the hull. At that, the VII probably didnt carry a full compliment of torpedoes to allow room for it. I mean,how can you squeeze the Lost Ark down one of their default hatches?

Also, did that VII have a full crew compliment? I'd say not. I saw at least several squads, maybe a platoon of infantry disembark onto the cargo ship. Any Uboat barely had enough room for a normal crew compliment much less a platoon of infantry and highly placed SS.

The movie leads you to think the boat got there quickly over hundreds of miles of ocean. We all know that Uboats are snails below water and can only cover distance above water. If they are above water, there is at least a lookout crew on the conning tower and in those lattitudes,the sailors are sunning themselves on deck. Assuming Dr. Jones hid out in the tower during dive, how could he escape detection when they were surfaced?

I wonder what strings Hitler pulled to get a VII out there anyway. Doenitz would surely have to be pulled into at least some specifics of the Lost Ark, if a boat from one of his flotillas is to be used in transporting matrial from Egypt. ALso, the plane blew up, so this was last minute notice. Good thing the Kriegsmarine just happened to have a boat in the area.Also a good thing the Kriegsmarine happened to have a island clpse by too.

Too bad the spirits from the Lost Ark spooked the Kriegsmarine from using that base in wartime. It would have eliminated the need for Milkcows and surface ships braving harrassment from the Royal Navy and Allied air forces.

[Torplexed]

I wonder what strings Hitler pulled to get a VII out there anyway. Doenitz would surely have to be pulled into at least some specifics of the Lost Ark, if a boat from one of his flotillas is to be used in transporting matrial from Egypt. ALso, the plane blew up, so this was last minute notice. Good thing the Kriegsmarine just happened to have a boat in the area.Also a good thing the Kriegsmarine happened to have a island clpse by too.

I always wondered what strings Spielberg used to get that sub away from Wolfgang Petersen. It's the same submarine exterior used for Das Boot and it was borrowed while that movie was still being filmed.

Indiana Jones was hardly realistic in many respects, Egyptology among them. However in the 1930s Germany's future ally Italy possessed several islands in the eastern Mediterranean that could have played the part of a fictitious U-Boat base, the island of Rhodes and the Dodecanese among them

[Cpt. Angry F...]

Haha. The Afrika Korps apparently already existed back in 1938 (or whatever year Indy 1 is set) and had a foothold in Egypt!

[Torplexed]

Haha. The Afrika Korps apparently already existed back in 1938 (or whatever year Indy 1 is set) and had a foothold in Egypt!

Yes...apparently the British had no objection to a massive German archeological dig involving hundreds of well-armed soldiers. Egypt was nominally independent by 1922 but Britain still had a healthy military presence there in 1938.

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

An armed German force on British occupied land must have been a concession made by the appeasement faction in London. Chamberlain must have given the Reich a lease. :yeah:
Yeah, Torplexed,the islands in the Med would make more sense. Otherwise the Uboat has to cross the Suez to get to the Indian Ocean. I am impressed they were able to build a Uboat pen out in international waters with no one raising a fuss. Kind of surprising it wasnt a joint venture with the Japanese. Using the island as a springboard, the Axis could have cut supplies to Viscount Slim's forces in India.

[Torplexed]

The bunker and pen you see (briefly) in the movie is the one in La Pallice (La Rochelle) in France which still exists today. It was one of the first scenes filmed.

I'm pretty sure there weren't any Type VIIBs or Cs yet operational in 1938. Maybe some prototype Type VIIAs. But then most movie audiences wouldn't know the difference.

[GoldenRivet]

awesome movie anyway.

i never once thought to ask how the light speed engines on the millennium falcon worked.

im just taking Star Wars' word for it :har:

Art does not always have to represent life in order to be considered art.

My thinking is that they would have had some sort of hastily modded hatch built onto the sub. :|\\

[Oneshot/Onekill]

It would have to of been a Type VIIA. The first TypeVIIB wasn't launched untill 1939.:yep:

[Kongo Otto]

It would have to of been a Type VIIA. The first TypeVIIB wasn't launched untill 1939.:yep:

Well maybe it wasnt a Type VII, maybe it was a secret Prototype directly from the Top Secret U-Boat Pen at Neuschwabenland. :har::har::haha::haha::har::har:

For more Info feel free to click:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Swabia

[Kapt Z]

Heck, I just wondered how Indy held his breath when the u-boat submerged?!?:haha:

[Torplexed]

Heck, I just wondered how Indy held his breath when the u-boat submerged?!?:haha:

Do we know if the U-Boat submerged? ;) They never show the sub diving in the movie. Not much reason to in peacetime and a U-Boats speed is better on the surface. Odds are greater someone on watch would have seen him hiding under the flak tower rail though.

A better question is why send a sub to do a job a surface ship or armed merchantman could do better? Because it looks cooler.

[Puster Bill]

Raiders of the Lost Ark happens in 1936.

The first Type VIIA's weren't commissioned until August 1936.

If we are to assume that the introductory part happened over summer break, and that the subsequent hunt for the Ark started after the Fall Semester had started, it *STILL* wouldn't have been possible for a Type VIIA to be in the Indian Ocean: They would still have been in "work up", or crew training and defect correction, for several months in the Baltic.

And don't get me started about Nazi's carrying MP-38's in 1936.

Or the flying wing when the Horten brothers were still just building gliders.

Or the Panzerfaust (which I swear is actually an RPG, but it's been a while since I saw the movie) which wasn't invented until 1943.

Or (insert some random anachronism here).

ON EDIT: It actually is an RPG-2:

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/5/56/Panzerfaust1.jpg/400px-Panzerfaust1.jpg

[Torplexed]

ON EDIT: It actually is an RPG-2:

A Soviet post-war weapon to boot. And Indy is handling it like an Afghan war vet.

They also show his plane flying past the Golden Gate Bridge which was still under construction in 1936.

Meh...we're beating up on a 1981 movie in 2009. They musta done something right. :D

[GoldenRivet]

Meh...we're beating up on a 1981 movie in 2009. They musta done something right. :D

100% agreed! :yeah:

despite the anachronisms the film is a f-ing classic :D period!

I love this movie and have watched it TWICE since this thread was created.

[Torplexed]

100% agreed! :yeah:

despite the anachronisms the film is a f-ing classic :D period!

I love this movie and have watched it TWICE since this thread was created.

yeah...I remember thinking after the beginning South American jungle sequence the first time I saw it that this movie was really clicking with a certain magic and had the earmarks of a classic. :cool:

Hey it spawned three sequels...although Last Crusade was the better of the three.

[GoldenRivet]

last crusade was spectacular.

mostly made so by the Ford, Connery combo.

what a team!

[Schroeder]

Or (insert some random anachronism here).


I loved it when the German in the U-Boat pen wanted to send Indy to a firing squad for not wearing his stolen uniform correctly. :rotfl:

In the last crusade when Jones senior and his friends get caught in the temple one of the soldiers says in German: "Hände hoch, das ist ein Überfall!"
Which means: "Hands up this is a robbery." (I don't know if it is said like that in English. People who are intending to rob a bank or a similar place sometimes should that while pulling their guns to make sure everyone understands that this is no joke). It is definitely nothing a real German would say while arresting someone.:haha:
The American accents of all the "Germans" in the Last Crusade are nice too.:har:

[Sensekhmet]

I was fascinated by both the flying wing from Indy 1 and the tank from Last Crusade. I actually thought it was a real tank with late 30s modifications, after all even large armies used tanks that dated back to WW1 designs back then (like Renault FT-17). Turns out it was built from groud up especially for the movie.

[nikbear]

That Flying wing was so cool:|\\ But then the whole film is:yeah:A bit of film trivia for you......Steven spielberg had planned an elaborate fight between indy and the swordsman in the market with indy using his whip,Except at the time on set Harrison Ford had contracted food poisoning and had to rush back and to,to the toilet every 5mins,hence the scene being cut short and indy just pulling his gun and shooting the guy:rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

Yep, heard that story back when the movie was released (have I mentioned lately that I'm an old fart?). Another one I love: the chase scene in the town where the truck ends up on its side. It was originally supposed to land on its back, but only rolled so far. When the stunt director offered to reshoot the scene Spielberg allegedly said no, on second thought it looked more realistic that way, and they leave it the way it was.

I too always wondered where Indy was going to hide so the watch crew couldn't see him.

Me, I have all the original Young Indiana Jones TV shows on tape, and loved it in the last movie when they made a reference to the pilot episode.

[FIREWALL]

WELCOME TO HOLLYWOOD !!! :har::har::har:

[nikbear]

Yep, heard that story back when the movie was released (have I mentioned lately that I'm an old fart?). Another one I love: the chase scene in the town where the truck ends up on its side. It was originally supposed to land on its back, but only rolled so far. When the stunt director offered to reshoot the scene Spielberg allegedly said no, on second thought it looked more realistic that way, and they leave it the way it was.

I too always wondered where Indy was going to hide so the watch crew couldn't see him.

Me, I have all the original Young Indiana Jones TV shows on tape, and loved it in the last movie when they made a reference to the pilot episode.

Did you hear who was originally in the frame to play indy,but turned it down because he thought the film wasn't a good idea and he wanted to concentrate on his popular TV show......Tom selleck,Magnum Pi,I bet he's kicked himself ever since:har:

[Sailor Steve]

Yep, heard that story back then too. I don't know about kicking himself though - he hasn't done all that badly for himself.

[FIREWALL]

The rolling rock ball gag has been used in alot of stuff includeing a Simpson episode. :haha:

I liked the Crystal Skull. There were a few Easter Eggs in it too.

[Kapt Z]

Do we know if the U-Boat submerged? ;) They never show the sub diving in the movie. Not much reason to in peacetime and a U-Boats speed is better on the surface. Odds are greater someone on watch would have seen him hiding under the flak tower rail though.

A better question is why send a sub to do a job a surface ship or armed merchantman could do better? Because it looks cooler.

I just assumed that since everyone went below that they were about to dive....

Technicalities....:haha:

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

It's a good movie, don't get me wrong. I just found all the Uboat related details and unanswered questions amusing, knowing full well I would have to suspend my disbelief. At the very least, it wasn't U-571 and it wasn't Russians covertly taking over a military base in New Mexico.

[Jimbuna]

Just don't anyone go spoiling it for me by claiming it was all based on ficticious events!! :stare:

[Puster Bill]

A Soviet post-war weapon to boot. And Indy is handling it like an Afghan war vet.

They also show his plane flying past the Golden Gate Bridge which was still under construction in 1936.

Meh...we're beating up on a 1981 movie in 2009. They musta done something right. :D


Oh, don't get me wrong, I love the movie myself. This is just the nit-picky stuff you notice after several viewings.

[sharkbit]

Another one I love: the chase scene in the town where the truck ends up on its side. It was originally supposed to land on its back, but only rolled so far. When the stunt director offered to reshoot the scene Spielberg allegedly said no, on second thought it looked more realistic that way, and they leave it the way it was.


If you look closely at the bottom of the truck while it is rolling over, you can see the log sticking out that they rigged to blow downward to roll the truck over for the shot.

It is a great movie and I've always enjoyed the first and second(haven't seen the third and fourth one though :88)) but you do have to suspend some belief for a while but it still makes for some good old fashioned adventure.
:)

[Indiana_Jones]

The ark is mine baby!

lol such a long thread on this! :rotfl:

[Jimbuna]

The ark is mine baby!

lol such a long thread on this! :rotfl:

...and such a long time :doh:

[Indiana_Jones]

...and such a long time :doh:

That's what she said!

[Betonov]

there's actually a cut out of the movie scene, where Indy is clinging to the periscope during the trip to the island. The boat was periscope depth all the way.... that had to be slow

[PavelKirilovich]

Man, I scraped my knuckles down to the bone after helping with some heavy lifting with "prune hands". After a three knot journey up the Atlantic clinging to a periscope, Indy'll be skinning himself alive.

[FIREWALL]

Watched Raiders of the Lost Ark today. Noticed they used a Type VII to offload the Ark of the Convenant from the cargo ship to the Nazi's secret island Uboat base in the Indian Ocean. It brought to mind several complications and questions.

The Ark is pretty big,estimating 8 feet long by four feet wide and five feet tall. I can't see how they could get that inside a Type VII. What probably didn't make it into the movie, is a custom hatch had to be cut into the topside of the hull. At that, the VII probably didnt carry a full compliment of torpedoes to allow room for it. I mean,how can you squeeze the Lost Ark down one of their default hatches?

Also, did that VII have a full crew compliment? I'd say not. I saw at least several squads, maybe a platoon of infantry disembark onto the cargo ship. Any Uboat barely had enough room for a normal crew compliment much less a platoon of infantry and highly placed SS.

The movie leads you to think the boat got there quickly over hundreds of miles of ocean. We all know that Uboats are snails below water and can only cover distance above water. If they are above water, there is at least a lookout crew on the conning tower and in those lattitudes,the sailors are sunning themselves on deck. Assuming Dr. Jones hid out in the tower during dive, how could he escape detection when they were surfaced?

I wonder what strings Hitler pulled to get a VII out there anyway. Doenitz would surely have to be pulled into at least some specifics of the Lost Ark, if a boat from one of his flotillas is to be used in transporting matrial from Egypt. ALso, the plane blew up, so this was last minute notice. Good thing the Kriegsmarine just happened to have a boat in the area.Also a good thing the Kriegsmarine happened to have a island clpse by too.

Too bad the spirits from the Lost Ark spooked the Kriegsmarine from using that base in wartime. It would have eliminated the need for Milkcows and surface ships braving harrassment from the Royal Navy and Allied air forces.



WELCOME to HOLLYWOOD da da daa da


WELLLLCOME too HOLLYWOOD da da :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Subnuts]

The "Magic U-boat" in Raiders has become a running joke between my (tolerant of my obsession) mom and I, since I raised it as one of those "you know what's always bothered me about..." topics a few months back. :)

[Betonov]

here's an idea. Maybe they hooked the electro engines to the ark and supercharged them to about a gazzzilion rpm. maybe the entire trip realy took only a few second like its shown in the iconic red-line-to-destination scene