Questions from the noob...

[Akula4745]

Ok, a couple of questions from the noob...

1) Noisemakers/decoys - Just wanted to check to be sure I am using these correctly. Its basically a three step process by my understanding... go to flank speed - fire off decoy - execute quick 90 degree turn... then settle down after a short speed burst, correct? I wondered if these generally work better at one depth or another - any logic to use at shallow as opposed to deep... or vice-versa? Any personal tricks or hints for using decoys I might not be aware of?

2) Radar ghosts - Are radar ghosts a part of the game? On my way back to Port (at night) I had a single target marked as "ship, slow speed" which proved to be nowhere to be found as I got within 100+ yards of the target on my attack map and searched the surface (with free camera) to no avail... sure it was a dark night and all but unless it was someone in a very small bathtub I do not know how they avoided my search as the target showed no speed or course and for all appearances was stationary. Anyone else run into radar ghosts?

3) Purple Hearts (wounded in combat) - After completing my sortie I was presented with promotions and purple hearts (medals) to distribute... any hints or info on passing out promotions? And how the heck do you tell who was wounded during the patrol to give them a purple heart? I had no dead crew members (they would have been an obvious choice) and none who appeared to be wounded or recovered from injuries... what gives? Any info would be appreciated.

4) Image capture - What are the correct keys to start capturing a sequence - and to stop capturing a sequence? I must have accidently hit these keys and very quickly saved almost 4 Gb of BMP images... definitely need to know how to turn it off before I do it again. <G>

Things the noob learned...

1) When refitting at a base make sure to check and load all tubes (if you were bone dry on torps) BEFORE you leave port as the refit just loads them on board and you will instantly be down 6 torpedos after you load the tubes if you don't check...

2) When on patrol in a certain area (within 100 nm radius) command will offer you targets outside your defined patrol radius (which will make you restart the 48 hour patrol period)... so be careful and use a marked ring on the chart for reference to stay within your boundaries.

3) Fighting aircraft is a bad idea no matter what the aircraft is... from first hand experience it seems to be more of a losing proposition than a winning one. Better to take it down than risk damage and/or death

Thanks in advance and good hunting!

Jim
Akula4745

[MonTana_Prussian]

Akula,glad to see you are moving along in the game!

1)..I use them somewhat deep,just above the thermal layer,and as part of my evasion,in addition to the points you describe,I also duck under the layer. It helps.


2)... was the contact 'red' or 'grey'? if red,it happens alot,keep an eye on it as you attempt to close,if it appears not to be moving,forget it.it's not there. grey ones are radar contacts,and usually will be moving.

3)...Wounded crew members will appear red,in the crew management screen,UNTIL they are 'healed',so you will have to keep track on a piece of paper,that's what I do.

As to promotions,I try to limit them. Promote those with the highest efficiancy and with the skills you want in their areas. Remember,when you promote a seaman to Petty Officer,you will have to select a specialty for him,keep this in mind.

4)....ctrl+f11 will give you one screenshot each time you use it.

[Torplexed]

3) Fighting aircraft is a bad idea no matter what the aircraft is... from first hand experience it seems to be more of a losing proposition than a winning one. Better to take it down than risk damage and/or death

Yes....fighting aircraft is pretty much a bad idea no matter how many flak guns you festoon the conning tower with. With the priceless advantage of a decent air search set you don't really ever need to face them. With RSRD you rarely see them anyway.

[peabody]

Akula,glad to see you are moving along in the game!

2)... was the contact 'red' or 'grey'? if red,it happens alot,keep an eye on it as you attempt to close,if it appears not to be moving,forget it.it's not there. grey ones are radar contacts,and usually will be moving.



Just to add a little bit to Montana's explanation. A red one not moving, is actually moving, so if you are 20 miles away and head toward it, assuming you are surfaced and moving at a good speed, it will take you an hour at least to get there. The red is a report where he is at the time of the report, so basically where he WAS. So if you plot a course in front of his direction of travel, you may be able to intercept.

And you can also get grey ones if you are surfaced with bad whether and fog and it will turn red when he gets close enough to identify by sight. So you need to be careful about shooting grey ones, depending where you are, they may not be the enemy. It is UFO. (Unidentified Floating Object)

Pebody

[Akula4745]

Thanks, Montana... I am loving it!

Weird thing about the ghost target is I was running on the surface (being night and all) so the contact was never lost... and it was a red contact BTW. <G>

Oh well, live and learn!

Akula4745

[Akula4745]

BUMP - Would love more input from the forum on decoys/noisemakers...

[Torplexed]

BUMP - Would love more input from the forum on decoys/noisemakers...

I've always been leery of the inclusion of sonar decoys in SH4. There is evidence that the US Navy was working on such a device, but I've never heard if it was actually put in production and used before the war ended. There are some instances of home-made remedies like using debris jammed into the tubes and fired to spoof the Japanese into thinking they had scored a kill, but that's hardly a sonar decoy.

[MonTana_Prussian]

I've always been leery of the inclusion of sonar decoys in SH4. There is evidence that the US Navy was working on such a device, but I've never heard if it was actually put in production and used before the war ended. There are some instances of home-made remedies like using debris jammed into the tubes and fired to spoof the Japanese into thinking they had scored a kill, but that's hardly a sonar decoy.


True,however,as you said,some improvised 'decoys' were used. I can't remember which book it was,but the boat used a fuel can/drum punctured with holes and filled with something that gave off bubbles. I'll have to check my library.

[Torplexed]

True,however,as you said,some improvised 'decoys' were used. I can't remember which book it was,but the boat used a fuel can/drum punctured with holes and filled with something that gave off bubbles. I'll have to check my library.

I seem to recall reading Capt. Eugene Flukey used a tactic like this once.

[Rockin Robbins]

Not in Thunder Below, I don't think. There were some extended conversations about decoys on Subsim about a year ago and I recall the answer we ended up with was no confirmed use of these decoys during the war.

I've never used them because of those discussions.

[Webster]

i dont ever recall john wayne using them either :hmmm:

[MonTana_Prussian]

I'm still looking,I KNOW I read it:cool:

[Sniper31]

Do flares and chaff qualify? Oops, wait a minute...wrong sim...Morale Officer! Another drink please!:yeah:

[NEON DEON]

On Fluckey's last patrol, He had all kinds of stuff. Rocekts, MK27s and MK28s.

He also had Pillenwurfer bubblers/gassers and swim out beacons. He got caught in a tight spot and used them all at the same time to get away from 3 escorts in shallow water. The swim out beacons simulated sub noises.

The decoys made so much noise that they blanked out the sonar.

The story is on page 340 and 341 of Thunder Below.

[Akula4745]

Well I was really interested more in differing technique than validity... but it is an interesting side note on these tools availability during the war. So am I to understand that most players do NOT use the decoys and noisemakers?

Thanks all.
Akula4745

[Torplexed]

I've used them in SH3, but never in SH4 because it feels ahistorical and out of place with the theater. I believe the common procedure in SH3 is to drop a line of them at intervals to make a big sonar target and then depart the line at a right angle, but against multiple escorts I've never seen it work.

[AVGWarhawk]

Not in Thunder Below, I don't think. There were some extended conversations about decoys on Subsim about a year ago and I recall the answer we ended up with was no confirmed use of these decoys during the war.

I've never used them because of those discussions.

Decoys were available very late war and not used much if at all.

[Webster]

yep, most tactics players use in the game are based on real tactics recorded used in the war and since they didnt have decoys untill the war was almost over they never had much time or oportunity to use them enough to develope standard tactics for them.

i cant disable it because the german side actually used decoys but i believe i will remove the decoys icon in GFO because as stated, its not very realistic to have them on fleet boats.

[NEON DEON]

Well I was really interested more in differing technique than validity... but it is an interesting side note on these tools availability during the war. So am I to understand that most players do NOT use the decoys and noisemakers?

Thanks all.
Akula4745


Oh tactics.

Crashdive at flank. when you get to 40 meters and level drop a decoy and go hard to port or starboard 90 degrees(knuckle). When the turn is almost complete drop your speed to 1/3 and rig for silent running. Dive below the thermal layer when the turn is finished. Once below the layer crawl away at 2 knots. Try to keep your stern pointed to the closest escorts sonar contact.

[MonTana_Prussian]

The thermal layer is your best friend,but I try not to be in need of that friend whenever possible.:cool:

[Akula4745]

Thanks NEON DEON for the info. You describe pretty much my understanding of the technique... dive, 90 degree turn and simultaneous release... maybe a 3 count then reduce speed and run quiet.

I must confess to not being as knowledgeable of the historical details as some of my fellow forum members... and I am likely mixing in tactics from reading about post world war II submarine activity. To be honest I had not noticed any great benefit from using the decoys... but it certainly did not appear to hurt when mixed with other evasion techniques.

One thing is for sure... with a little practice the "stock" escorts are kinda easy to evade (I had read this previously in the forum and now agree)... so I am really practicing for the improved level of prosecution which I expect to find in the RFB mod. Just trying to hone the details so when my new PC arrives on Wednesday I will be ready.

On another note - sometimes it seems the thermal layer is not there... or I am not getting deep enough... or maybe just not announced? Is there typically not a thermal layer above 165 feet when not in open seas? So many questions...

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Akula4745

[Torplexed]

Thermal layers or 'thermoclines' are mostly a matter of luck and happenstance. Most US subs by 1944 had a device called a bathythermograph for detecting them, although the game generously gives you this detection ability through the whole war. If you should find a thermal while diving after an attack or even before one one consider yourself blessed.:ping: Although no guarantee of a successful evasion from escorts they are a sub's natural ally.

[Akula4745]

Because a thermal layer partially deflects or inhibits surface sonar, right?

[Torplexed]

Because a thermal layer partially deflects or inhibits surface sonar, right?

yes...it bends and refracts it. Here's a pretty good and brief article on the subject from uboat.net

http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=45

[Akula4745]

Thanks Torp!!!

[Peto]

Be aware though that in SH4 the thermal layer works "a little different" than it does in the real world. It's really just a percentage reduction to AI sonar and that depends on how it is set in the config files. Because the thermal layer is always there in game (WWII submariners only wished it would always be there) I've set mine to the lowest factor without turning it off completely. Still--that 20% can come in handy :hmmm:. Fire up RFB and make a scenario with just you and 2 Japanese Elite Matsu Escorts in clear weather (0ms winds) and you'll probably see what I mean. Try it using a pre-Gato Class. I dare ya :O:!

[MonTana_Prussian]

Thermal layers or 'thermoclines' are mostly a matter of luck and happenstance. Most US subs by 1944 had a device called a bathythermograph for detecting them, although the game generously gives you this detection ability through the whole war. If you should find a thermal while diving after an attack or even before one one consider yourself blessed.:ping: Although no guarantee of a successful evasion from escorts they are a sub's natural ally.

Yep. They depend on a variety of environmental conditions that can vary greatly,even within a short distance. But as Torp says,it's really nice to find one,especially when preparing to attack an escorted convoy!:cool:

[Torplexed]

Hey Montana did you notice that Akula has been promoted to a full Admiral? (going by his shiny new avatar) Not bad for 93 posts. :D

[MonTana_Prussian]

Hey Montana did you notice that Akula has been promoted to a full Admiral? (going by his shiny new avatar) Not bad for 93 posts. :D

I noticed that. He must have a pipeline to the High Command.:haha:

[Akula4745]

Now, now gentlemen... yes I am talking to you two, Torp and Montana... since my real life job is closely linked to politics and government I simply had the good sense to make a small contribution to the SUBSIM political action committee. This small contribution along with my relentless badgering of Neal combined (of course) with stories of the Akula orphanage and homeless refuge (I think I also mentioned my painful tennis elbow) lead Neal to promote me recently after reading the letter from my psychiatrist outlining the identity crisis I was experiencing due to my constantly changing forum persona... and it didn't hurt there had been a few too many sake bombs. But do not jump to conclusions - I have not been promoted to Admiral... while my new avatar may appear to be of significant rank, it is actually Vince Osaka, the doorman at the Ichiro strip club and sushi bar (Tuesday is two-for-one tuna rolls and lap dances!).

Say... did I ever tell you guys about my efforts to save the endangered topless beaches in my area? I am always prepared to stand up and fight for a good breast... er, ah... cause. Feel free to contribute as much as you like to my political action group... the Regional Action Committee for Knockers - also known as RACK. If you need more information just let me know....

Be happy... don't worry.
Akula4745

[Peto]

- I have not been promoted to Admiral... while my new avatar may appear to be of significant rank, it is actually Vince Osaka, the doorman at the Ichiro strip club and sushi bar (Tuesday is two-for-one tuna rolls and lap dances!).

I thought I recognized that guy! (Great Tuna Rolls!!!)

Say... did I ever tell you guys about my efforts to save the endangered topless beaches in my area? I am always prepared to stand up and fight for a good breast... er, ah... cause. Feel free to contribute as much as you like to my political action group... the Regional Action Committee for Knockers - also known as RACK. If you need more information just let me know....

Check is n the mail. I'm always happy to contribute to such a fine (and tax deductable) cause.

See you at the beach!!!

[Torplexed]

Say... did I ever tell you guys about my efforts to save the endangered topless beaches in my area? I am always prepared to stand up and fight for a good breast... er, ah... cause.

Aye, aye! I'm there....with my periscope at maximum magnification. :ping:

[MonTana_Prussian]

I thought I recognized that guy! (Great Tuna Rolls!!!)



Check is n the mail. I'm always happy to contribute to such a fine (and tax deductable) cause.

See you at the beach!!!

Aye, aye! I'm there....with my periscope at maximum magnification. :ping:

Yes Sir:salute: There can be no better cause!:D

[Akula4745]

I knew you guys would understand... can't ya just feel the love!

LOL

[Sailor Steve]

But I don't understand. How do I get a cool custom avatar like that?:rotfl:

[MonTana_Prussian]

Ahhh..Glad I got my hip boots on!:haha:

[Peto]

I wouldn't change my Avatar for the world. It looks just like me.

:shifty:

[MonTana_Prussian]

I wouldn't change my Avatar for the world. It looks just like me.

:shifty:

I'm just glad I don't look like any of the ones I've had so far!:yep:

[Akula4745]

Yes... I've had some avatars which were somewhat less than desirable! Then I got the note from my psychiatrist... now I feel much more secure with the all too hip doorman. LOL

I wonder what the record is for getting to 100 posts?

[Task Force]

probably something set by me...lol I once had 21.xx post per day average here.

[MonTana_Prussian]

Yes... I've had some avatars which were somewhat less than desirable! Then I got the note from my psychiatrist... now I feel much more secure with the all too hip doorman. LOL

I wonder what the record is for getting to 100 posts?

Thank God I only had 'Wild Night in Bangkok' for one post.:haha:

[Akula4745]

LOL - Now that might be an interesting avatar, Montana!