"Stay alert crew fix", What does it do ?

[subvers4]

Hi all, while perusing the new download section on here, (great idea guys), I came across the above mod, but I couldn't find a readme or anything which gives an insight into what exactly it does. I think I recall reading something about improving the sonarman's attentiveness to his duties, which would reduce the now familiar pantomine of myself marching into his shack, whipping off his earphones, listening myself, then glowering at him while jabbing my finger at the dial ! Then, ten minutes later, repeating the same process with my watch crew !
Then again, I could be guessing wrong and putting two and two together and coming up with five. Any info on this mod would be greatly appreciated folks.
BTW I am running GWX 2.1
Subvers4

[Shantyman]

Hi Subvers4,

I thought that I recalled reading somewhere that it cuts down the amount of time spent on a patrol micro-managing your crew.

Don't quote this as gospel, as I am not running this mod.

I am sure somebody who runs the mode will chip in as I am interested in the answer too.:yeah:

[Sharkley]

Hi all, while perusing the new download section on here, (great idea guys), I came across the above mod, but I couldn't find a readme or anything which gives an insight into what exactly it does. I think I recall reading something about improving the sonarman's attentiveness to his duties, which would reduce the now familiar pantomine of myself marching into his shack, whipping off his earphones, listening myself, then glowering at him while jabbing my finger at the dial ! Then, ten minutes later, repeating the same process with my watch crew !
Then again, I could be guessing wrong and putting two and two together and coming up with five. Any info on this mod would be greatly appreciated folks.
BTW I am running GWX 2.1
Subvers4

Could it be the same as the "no fatigue" model included in SH3Commander 3.2 :hmmm:

[subvers4]

Hi guys, Sharkley, I don't think it is the same as the 'no fatigue' model in SH3 commander, at least I hope not. I don't have a problem with the micro-management of the crew, well not since the early days of this career back in a type 11 sailing out of Kiel ! I am now in 2nd flotilla sailing a type 1X out of Lorient and I have an experienced and battle tested crew with some highly decorated officers which make the whole shift change pattern much easier to fit into a routine, which can be a welcome break on the long journeys I get assigned nowadays :zzz:.
I was just kind of hoping that the mod (stay alert), would help with the crew falling asleep at their stations, and I wouldn't have to keep rousing them from their slumbers and gently (!) reminding them what they are on this boat for ! When the going gets tough, as it does from time to time, there's nothing worse than a crew you cannot rely upon to do their job as directed by BDU :stare:.

[Sharkley]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125735&page=3

did some reading and it looks like it may slow down fatigue the same way LRT v2.02 increase repair times.

Mind you, this is just a guess :hmmm:

[subvers4]

Thanks for the research there Sharkley, I didn't come across that in my adventures with the search function. I am still hoping that the mod has more to do with the sensor capabilities of the eyes and ears of certain (un-named) members of my crew rather than just reducing fatigue levels generally, but thanks again for the interest and pointer buddy. :up:

[Sharkley]

Google was my friend in that search. :salute:

[badwolf]

Here's the readme.
**************

March 26, 2007
"Stay Alert - crew fix" mod for GWX and Stock game version 1.c
This is a 8km version only.
This version have the new fix for the visual airplanes detection.

================================================== ==================

Sh3 arrive with a lot of unfinished/bugged features. The crew behaviour on Visual and Hydrophones station were some of them.
This is an old annoying behaviour that was extensively discussed on SS forum in the last two years, but a solution have not appeared until now.

Many thanks to Jungman, Ducimus, CB's, Gammel, Redwine, Hemmisent, Manuel Ortega and others that divided their knowledge about sensors settings with all the community.

The trick is in truth only understand well what the Sensors files and it´s settings makes on the game. After that is just a matter of find the best adjusts.

The Dev´s makes the crew a little blind intentionaly I guess. This is to allow the players to try and find the contacts "better" than the crew. But after you play SH3 a while this behaviour becomes very annoying and dumb.

Sometimes you are attacked by enemies that are easily visible using the external camera but your crew don´t see them!

The sonarman is also so dumb. You can listen contacts far than 30km away and the best skilled sonarman only start to listen something, with luck, between 17-20km or, more frequently, far less!

Well, this is the soul of this mod: make the crew see almost at same time the player can see and to make the sonarman more smart.

================================================== =======================

Visual and Hydrophones workaround

For visual purposes this can be called a 11km mod. As we don´t have a special sky dome and scene.dat for this I needed to limit the max Visual distance to 9300 to avoyd eagle eyes' crew (the 8km stock game only show objects on the horizon at 9000 meters or less).
Here the new awaited spotting distances and also some comparative results:

Day time(distance in meters when the crew start to see the ships in 90% of the time):
GWX(crew) Stock(crew) new settings(crew) max player eyes
No fog 7400-8100A 6800-7900 8700-9200 9000
Light Fog 4100-4400A 4200-4500 5700-4900 5500
Med. Fog 1800-2100A 1600-1900A 2000-2600 2500
Heavy Fog 280-300AA 220-300AA 300-350A 350


Night time:
GWX(crew) Stock(crew) new settings(crew) max player eyes
No fog 6700-7900 5700-6600 7000-8400 8200
Light Fog 3800-4100 3500-4300 4500-5200 5300
Med. Fog 1700-1900A 1500-1900A 1800-2300 2300
Heavy Fog NoEncounter? 150-200A 200-300A 300

-A means frequently attacked first, AA means always attacked first.
-Note that SH3 have a good random results for all contact distances, then the main distances will vary a bit.
-Also notice that a good skilled and rested crew and a good weather is necessary to acquire the best results.
-I suggest to have your Visual and HYdrophones section on the Sensors.cfg file setted as "False". This makes the crew always a bit more smart - already as a default on the mod.


The Hydrophones workaround have a slight different result than the Visual issue.
The awaited max distance to acquire a contact by sonarman is now between 21km to 27km. Before this mod this could vary between 8km to 20km.
(I also provided a 30km optional mod for hydrophones). Please, note:

Sh3 have some hardcoded (until now) problems related to hydrophones. Here the main ones:
1. The player always can listen a contact more or less at 30km away (or more) in any condition.
2. Sh3 hydrophone don´t have min distance differences for a warship, single small merch or a convoy. In RL a single small merchant could be listen between 10 to 18 km and a convoy frequently more than 80km away!
3. SH3 only allows to "follow nearest contact" order for contacts less than 25km away. So if you will use the 30km option of this mod notice that your sonarman will be unable to execute "Follow nearest sound contact" order until reach 25km.
4. A poor, if any, difference on max distance to the crew listen a contact in any sea state.

See the "changes made" section below for more info.


Added march 28, 2007
This updated version also add a fix for the visual airplane detection.

If not all, at least 99% of the players uses the Time Compression (TC) when playing SH3. Since the stock game we have an annoying "bug" where frequently you only knows about an enemy airplane when a bomb hit your uboat and the TC drops to 1x...This is an odd behaviour...how could we use TC if we can´t rely on the crew? Why they are so blind and dumb?

Luckily this was fixed now. I must say that others mods (GWX/NYGM) also made something similar but fail in put all this together and well adjusted.

This the awaited behaviour now on a clear no fog day (average, this may vary):

Real Life This mod Others mods/GWX/stock
Small Airplane (Hurricane) 9km 4km 1km!!!
Big Airplane (B24) 16km 8.5km 4.5km

By technical sh3 engine problems and gameplay balance isn´t a good idea to put these values farther than the above.
Anyway these distances will allow the crew to detect the airplanes just few seconds before the attack (35-45sec) what is the main intention of this mod: a useful and reliable crew!

Also notice that these are the maximum average distances in perfect conditions in game. As 80% of the time SH3 have some degree of fog the above distance will be frequently lesser, also these distances vary with the size of the airplane. Be prepared to a crash dive!

If after feedback ppl think that a more "low range" version is needed I can do it.

================================================== ===================

Installation

The mod is JSGME ready and you have two main options: GWX or Stock.

1. GWX version: use it only with GWX patch 1.02 or above

3. Stock version: this can be used with any mod (except GWX and NYGM). The Sensors.dat uses Stiebler´s settings and the Ai_sensors.dat uses Jungman's settings (with snorkel fix).


-Optional files for GWX version (see the specific readme inside):
AI_Sensors_Jungman_GWX.dat
Sensors_30km_GWX.dat
Sensors_true.cfg

-Install in this order:
1.SH3 1.4b
2.GWX
3.GWX patch 1.03
4.Stay Alert - crew fix (this mod)

**Always roll back SH3Cmdr prior to install any new mod**

Attention: SH3Cmdr uses the AI_sensors.dat file. If you don´t roll back before install this mod the mod will not work at all.

================================================== =======================

Suggested usage

For GWX users you can use AI_Sensors_Jungman_GWX.dat (on optional folder - rename it first) from the beginning of the war until late 1941. Then use the default AI_sensors.dat (on library folder) after 1942.
Jungman's settings have slight less uber sonars what could fit very well for early war age or for all the time if you want a slight more soft AI. ; )

================================================== =======================

Side effects:
None important. But notice that:
1. A slight more vampire vision on calm clear nights (from 6900m average to 7700m average...not so much anyway )
2. The LRG mod is now adjusted to a half than the original GWX. But I´m sure that you will like the better gameplay balance now...

================================================== =======================

See the appendix below for more info on what were changed.

================================================== ======================

Good hunting!

Rubini.

================================================== ======================

This is a work in progress.
Please help me adding any comment and feedback on the main thread on SS forum.
Your feedback is very important. All these settings could be fine tuned if needed.

This is a 8km version only.
If we have a good positive result I can then try to make the same for 16km and also join this mod with the AI_Visual new nodes present on NYGM/Ducimus' mods for GWX.

================================================== ======================

Appendix

Changes on GWX Sensors.dat:

General comments:
-First of all, the first intention of this mod is playability. Then RL settings will be dropped if needed to have a better gameplay balance and a more challenge game. The second main intention is to make the player and the crew detect things at same time. These two goals were acquired 90% of the time now. Notice on other section that Hydrophones continue to have some flaws but your sonarman is very more smart now than GWX/stock.

-All the hydrophones have now a PreciseRange value near the MaxRange value (stock/Gwx was 0). This makes the crew more smart with less error interval.

-All the hydrophones SweepPeriod values are now set to 10 (stock/gGWX was 30). This makes the crew more reactive and will detect the sounds more quickly.

-All the RWR have the max range slight reduced to avoid bad side effects with the SH3 engine itself. SH3 don´t renders terrain or harbours after more or less 30km. So if you start to detect things so away you will also start to see some "bugs" with external camera when locked in far away objets...Well, no more now...and you will not noticed the difference. I also made them a bit (only a bit) lesser to avoid the so easy Airplanes avoidance when you have the more powerfull RWR...in GWX you received a radar contact from airplanes far distant and could even think "I will dive now or some minutes later?"...well will be a bit more urgent decision now... ; )

Radar/RWR:
FuMB7Naxos:
PreciseRange: was 20000, now 18000, stock 7500
Maxrange: was 20000, now 18000, stock 7500

FuMB10Borkum:
PreciseRange: was 30000, now 22000, stock 5000
Maxrange: was 30000, now 22000, stock 5000

FuMB26Tunis:
PreciseRange: was 35000, now 25000, stock 1000
Maxrange: was 35000, now 28000, stock 1000

WanzeG2_7:
PreciseRange: was 35000, now 25000, stock not exist!
Maxrange: was 35000, now 28000, stock not exist!

WanzeG2_9:
PreciseRange: was 35000, now 25000, stock not exist!
Maxrange: was 35000, now 28000, stock not exist!

WanzeG2_92:
PreciseRange: was 35000, now 25000, stock not exist!
Maxrange: was 35000, now 28000, stock not exist!


Visual (we are speaking about 8km installation...):
Visual:
PreciseRange: was 12500, now 8800, stock 6000
Maxrange: was 16000, now 9300, stock 8000
Surface: was 100, now 60, stock 150 (if ppl don´t like it I will set to 90)
SweepPeriod: was 8, now 10, stock 15
SweepArc: was 5, now 0, stock 0
ProbInsideArc: was 10, now 0, stock 0

Sonar/Hydrophones:
BalkonGerat(all types):
PreciseRange: was 0, now 24000, stock 0
Maxrange: was 20000, now 26000, stock 20000
SweepPeriod: was 30, now 10, stock 30
(30km version: PR:29000, MR:30000)

KDB (all types):
PreciseRange: was 0, now 23000, stock 0
Maxrange: was 20000, now 25000, stock 20000
SweepPeriod: was 30, now 10, stock 30
MaxSensorHeight: was -3, now -4, stock -3 (to avoid intermitent contact in bad weather...)
(30km version: PR:28000, MR:29000)

GHG(all types):
PreciseRange: was 0, now 22000, stock 0
Maxrange: was 20000, now 24000, stock 20000
SweepPeriod: was 30, now 10, stock 30
(30km version: PR:27000, MR:28000)

-Notice that the Hydrophones have blind, i mean, deaf, sectors defined on the sensors.dat (mainly in the back of the uboat) to mimic the RL ones. The GHG is deaf straight ahead too. (untouched, same as stock/gwx)

-In Real life at WWII era, a hydrophone could detected (at max) a single merchant at 18km and a convoy more than 80km away! Notice that Sh3 don´t have differences in distance detection between single contact and a convoy on Hydrophones! Notice that the player can listen more than 30km away on Sh3, far more than the sonarman. I tried to acquire a good middle ground on these ranges...

-Apart from the noise presence itself, the second main important condition for Hydrophones on SH3 is the velocity (noise in the end) of the target!


Changes on Ai_Sensors.dat:

General comments:
-We have two versions here. The default is a more conservative on GWX settings. The unique change is the below on AI_visual.

-The other one uses Jungman's old implementations (on Optional folder) to make the enemy sonars a bit less ubber. Jungman made the sonars arc bearings more narrow, from 0/90 to 0/60 degrees. Also he adjusted the min heigh from 0 to 150m to have a less pinpoint DD (i reduce this to 100m). Notice that with Jungman's settings you will be slight less pinged when the DDs are very near/above you and then the depth charges will fall a bit less laser guided...
Others small changes from Jungman settings are also preserved.
It´s your choice!

AI_Visual (remember: it´s for 8km installations!):
MaxRange: was 30000, now 12000, stock 8000
MaxHeight: was 25000, now 18000, stock 10000

A note about the snorkel fix: Jungman in truth only fix it (making the MinHeight from 0 to 1 meter) to AI_Visual and generic AI_radar what is also present in standard GWX. He not made it for all radars neither for airplane radars. I guess that is ok as it is now. But if someone start to be detected by airplanes frequently when using snorkel then is just a matter to set all MinHeight from 0 to 1 for ASVMark (all types) using TTtweak. ; )

================================================== ==============

Changes on Sim.cfg:

The changes on Sim.cfg were made to accommodate the new LRG mod which was "reduced for 10000m" to best fit the 8km visibility default mod, These values are in truth, very near the stock settings.
I don´t touched the GWX AI Hydrophones and AI sonar behaviour.


Changes on Sensors.cfg:

The changes on the Sensors.dat are to make the crew see at same time that the player and are in truth only a few ones very near the stock settings. I also made the Visual and Hydrophones section "Use Crew Efficience = False" to always have a good well trained crew. Well, in my opinion SH3 have dumb crew on these stations, not green ones! lol
Anyway you have also a Sensors.cfg set as True for all sections as in original GWX in optional folder. It will (probably) works too.

================================================== =============

Stock version

As I said the Sensors.dat uses Stiebler´s settings and the Ai_sensors.dat uses Jungman's settings (with snorkel fix) plus all the new settings needed to this mod work correctly. Anyway with the description above you can adjust the files as you want.

But please be aware that the Sensors.cfg can´t be changed neither the below lines from Sim.cfg to this mod work correctly:

[Mech]
Waves amplitude=0.5 ;[0,1]
Waves attenuation=0.03 ;>=0

[AI Cannons]
Max error angle=4 ;[deg]
Max fire range=9000 ;[m]
Max fire wait=12 ;[s]

[AI AA guns]
Max error angle=5 ;[deg]
Max fire range=3500 ;[m]
Max fire wait=6 ;[s]

[AI detection]
Lost contact time=15 ;[min]

[Visual]
Detection time=0.5 ;[s] min detection time.
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1) at (sensitivity * max range) we have a double detection time.
Fog factor=1.3 ;[>=0]1.0
Light factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=400 ;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=15 ;[kt]

================================================== ================

[subvers4]

Hi Badwolf,
Thanks for your very informative reply, this mod sounds just the thing I was hoping it would be. I'll download and install it via JSGME. I've been assigned to ED98 on my next patrol, which I think is near Port of Spain, so hopefully it will be getting a good test under battle conditions.
Many thanks again Badwolf, for your work on this, and your detailed reply :salute:.
Subvers4

[badwolf]

HI subvers4,
There's a 16km version as well, here's the readme.
*************************************

May 17, 2007.

Well, even not so "perfect" as its related 8km version here a attempt to give a more balanced AI to GWX16km.

First of all, GWX 16km already works quite well.
The GWX 16km AI not frequently (the opposite of 8km version) will see you first (exception for small planes and ships and in heavy fogged conditions).
So, what this mod does?

This mod tweak three main sections:
1. A less deaf and more wakeful sonarman
2. A slight more smart crew on watch tower (visual)
3. A slight tweak over some RWR to avoid some side efects by SH3 world´s rendering limitations

So, the GWX AI (enemy) behaviour (sonar and Hydrophones) and Long Range Gunnery properties aren´t changed by this mod.
This mod in truth only makes your crew more smart. And this will help you a lot!

Installation:
JSGME ready.

Usage and side effects:
Expect a very smart sonarman that will listen and detect things a bit far away and more quickly.
The watch tower crew will be able to see a bit far away and detect the AI before they detect you in more situations and also your crew FOV will be more like the player FOV (but this isn´t so perfect as in 8km version).
The unique side effect is a possible more Vampire night vision, but almost not noticeable.
Also a slight more quick hydrophone wheel spin. The optional Sensors.dat have it more in par with the stock spin velocity (see below).

Optional:
I also included an optional folder with another Sensor.dat that have only a bit less sensible sonarman than in the main "default" mod. I also included a tweaked Jungman AI_sensors.dat that will make the Enemy ASW a bit more (only a bit) easy. I like very much this option, it´s makes GWX more playable for my taste.
And for last a Sensors.cfg with all the "uses crew efficiency=true" - but I suggest to use the default one on the mod
A tip: if you want these optional files then rename them correctly and put them on the correct place before enable the mod or you will not play with the mod in the end...lol

Compatibility:
This mod (with its "default" files) is also compatible with Ducimus/NYGM new visual sensors for GWX 16km (the Ducimus/NYGM new visual sensors aren´t compatible with any 8km version). Note that the optional (see above) tweaked Jungman´s AI_sensors.dat isn´t compatible with Ducimus/NYGM new visual sensors for GWX 16km.


Have fun!

Rubini.

================================================== ================================================== ====
changes made:


Sensors.dat:
-changes on min and maxrange and also on the SweepPeriod or all hydrophones. MaxSensorsHight changed for all KDB types.
-changes on max and min range for the RWR. SweepPeriod changes for Tunis.

AI_sensors (tweaks over Jungman original mod):
-changes on MaxBearing and also minRange for all active sonars
-changes on MaxRange, Maxheight and MaxBearing for AI_hydrophones

Sim.cfg:
-small changes under Visual section (Fog and Light factors)


Sensors.cfg:
-small changes under visual section (Fog and Light factors). I put a note on the best interval to be used for "Visual fog factor" if you want to try another value.
-"uses crew efficiency=false" for Visual and Hydrophone section. See the above Optional section.
================================================== ================================================== =====

[owner20071963]

Good to see you check out the Downloads section,
there are also Missions to Download,
SH3 & SH4 ,,
Happy Hunting :yeah:

[Climbingdad]

Sorry for another old thread resurrection, but wanted to see if others using GWX were using this mod, and results you were getting from it.

Reading through the GWX3 manual...it doesn't seem to address any of the alert related items that this mod addresses. My crew seems to fall asleep way too often, and will often not 'see' ships close to me. If if they are firing on us!

Does this mode help with that? Does this mod make things too unrealistic?

Thanks!

Chris

[mobucks]

What you seem to be experiencing is crew fatigue. This mod appears to modify the sensors the crew uses, when they are not fatigued. (though as stated fatigue will have an effect on sensors)

Having played SH4 before SH3, I remove fatigue entirely from SH3. In SH4 the system is refined enough to be hands off. (Relieve the watch automatically) but in SH3 this is not the case. If you don't manually rotate the watch, crew on duty will tire and become useless at their post.