Skipping Vista

[Onkel Neal]

Interesting!


http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=4109 (http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=4109)


Despite the fact that Windows 7 is almost cooked, a leaked Microsoft memo suggests that XP may live on past its May 30, 2009 retirement date.

The leaked internal memo outlines how Microsoft will grant HP the right to continue to downgrading Vista systems to XP. The memo does however go on too suggest that HP should be clear with customers about support:
It’s important to remind customers that Microsoft are still planning to retire XP Pro Mainstream support on April 14, 2009 and will only provide OS security updates beyond that date unless the customer has an Extended Hotfix Support contract. MS Extended Support for XP Pro ends on April 8th, 2014.
Unconfirmed rumors go further and suggest that Microsoft will allow HP to ship XP until April 30, 2010. If this XP extension has being granted to HP, it will almost certainly be extended to other OEMs.

It is worth bearing in mind that the EULA for both Vista Business and Ultimate allow users to downgrade, so this will remain in effect for the entire lifetime of the OS.

With Windows XP still commanding a 63% market share, netbook popularity continuing to rise, and Windows 7 still several months away, Microsoft needs an OS to cater for those who won’t touch Vista with a 20 foot pole. Rather than give those folks an excuse to look at Linux, it’s in Microsoft’s interests to continue to make XP seem relevant. That said, since downgrade rights exist for Business and Ultimate, as well as volume licensing customers, I think that all this leaked memo is about is making sure that OEMs remind customers of the support implications of choosing to downgrade from Vista.


XP is the OS that won't die! :)

But this is going to seriously derail my strategy :(

http://www.trustedreviews.com/software/news/2009/04/07/Windows-7-Will-Downgrade-To-But-Not-Upgrade-From-XP/p1 (http://www.trustedreviews.com/software/news/2009/04/07/Windows-7-Will-Downgrade-To-But-Not-Upgrade-From-XP/p1)



Hopefully it's not too late to ask Microsoft to reverse this...


In a classic case of not giving the public what they way, the Redmond giant has today confirmed that Windows 7 users will be able to downgrade their operating systems to Windows XP, but XP users will be unable to upgrade to Windows 7.


Speaking on its Windows 7 blog, the team confirmed: "Many have asked about upgrading from Windows XP. There's no change here to the plan as has been discussed on many forums. We realized at the start of this project that the "upgrade" from XP would not be an experience we think would yield the best results. There are simply too many changes in how PCs have been configured (applets, hardware support, driver model, etc.) that having all of that support carry forth to Windows 7 would not be nearly as high quality as a clean install."



Jeez, the stupid MS tricks continue....

[Skybird]

If mainboard and CPU live on over here, I will be a happy XP customer until 2014.

[Fincuan]

Having used the W7 beta quite a lot I don't see any reasons to stay with XP after it comes out. Unless your PC is really really old there's no reason not to upgrade, and even then W7 would probably run better on it than XP.

[AVGWarhawk]

I agree with Neal, sneaky deal with the XP downgrade and not being able to get the 7 upgrade. :shifty:. In my minds eye, MS keeps downing their own OS called Vista by pulling things like downgrading to XP and wait for 7 that we will charge you for. It makes no sense. I agree with Fincuan, no reason to stay with XP in my view either. Vista runs fine for me and I suspect 7 will be better. However, 7 would have to really show me something to spend my money on it. So far, I see no reason for me to go to 7.

[SteamWake]

Having used the W7 beta quite a lot I don't see any reasons to stay with XP after it comes out. Unless your PC is really really old there's no reason not to upgrade, and even then W7 would probably run better on it than XP.


Except for all that pesky incompatibility stuff.

[AVGWarhawk]

Except for all that pesky incompatibility stuff.


I have read quite a few with that issue. It is still beta but even so, I suspect incompatibility will happen even after release.

[goldorak]

If mainboard and CPU live on over here, I will be a happy XP customer until 2014.

Well said. :salute:
I'll keep xp as long as the hardware/software supports it. And if I really need to boost my ego with a computer having 8 GB of ram :haha: I'll get xp 64.

[FIREWALL]

DUAL BOOT and have both for ALL your gameing needs.

A no-brainer.

[longam]

So you should purchase your system with Vista, Dual boot to your old copy of XP, then upgrade from Vista to W7. Was that your plan Neal??...

This story just keeps getting better...:-?

[FIREWALL]

I'm a hardhead. If you can't afford the software for this hobby.

You shouldn't buy the hardware.

This is to no one in particular.

[Onkel Neal]

Actually, I was going to skip over Vista completely. I have it on my laptop, but for gaming I was not planning to messing with it.

I guess I can get Win 7 without upgrading.... honestly, I don't know what Vista or Win 7 can do for me that XP doesn't already do, at half the system resouces...



So you should purchase your system with Vista, Dual boot to your old copy of XP, then upgrade from Vista to W7. Was that your plan Neal??...

This story just keeps getting better...:-?

[AVGWarhawk]

Actually, I was going to skip over Vista completely. I have it on my laptop, but for gaming I was not planning to messing with it.

I guess I can get Win 7 without upgrading.... honestly, I don't know what Vista or Win 7 can do for me that XP doesn't already do, at half the system resouces...


The only thing that Vista can do frustrate is the user. Getting used to Vista takes a bit. Honestly, 64 bit in both XP and Vista are about it as far as I can tell that allows full use of 8 gig of RAM. Eye candy for Vista. Some new goodies but nothing I really use. I do use the Windows Live Mail. I would suspect over time XP would not support some new things. For example, Office 2003 needs updates now to support anything sent to me from someone using Office 2007, even so, it can still look odd using the 2003 compatability update for office. Do not quote me but I think XP does not support Windows Live Mail which is basically MS Outlook that is to take a back seat to the Windows Live Mail. Things of that nature that bascially force the user to upgrade eventually. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't

[FIREWALL]

In a work enviorment I'll be honest I don't have a clue which is better.

In gameing thats another matter.

I play Sims exclusively. Sub, Flying, Racing and such.

All Silent Hunter series will play on XP and with a little hassle SH3 & SH4 plays fine on Vista.

I as well as others play SH2 and DT and won't be shelveing them anytime soon.

Flying and Racing sims the same way.

XP is here to stay and,... Can and Will work right along side Vista\Win7

Dual Boot is the answer.

[goldorak]

I'm a hardhead. If you can't afford the software for this hobby.

You shouldn't buy the hardware.

This is to no one in particular.

Bull****, I don't care for windows Vista or 7 or whatever else comes out of Redmond. Doesn't mean that I can't have a great computer and develop and run freeware and or open source programs.
If you're happy with the redmond carot hanging in front of you go ahead and upgrade your hardware/software on microsft's whim every time.
For myself I've stepped down from the microsoft train. Xp and xp 64 for me. After that bye bye MS. And contrary to many I won't miss anything since I already run over 90% open source software.

[FIREWALL]

In a work enviorment I'll be honest I don't have a clue which is better.

In gameing thats another matter.

I play Sims exclusively. Sub, Flying, Racing and such.

All Silent Hunter series will play on XP and with a little hassle SH3 & SH4 plays fine on Vista.

I as well as others play SH2 and DT and won't be shelveing them anytime soon.

Flying and Racing sims the same way.

XP is here to stay and,... Can and Will work right along side Vista\Win7

Dual Boot is the answer.


:woot:

[CaptainHaplo]

Dual boot is often the way to go - but for most "end users" that isn't an option.

As for what win7 can do - it actually runs faster on most boxes than clean XP. There are a few older app compatibility issues - but that is to be expected. Hey - dosbox even runs on 7 from what I understand.

[Castout]

....
I don't know what Vista or Win 7 can do for me that XP doesn't already do, at half the system resouces...


How about the DEP protection, self healing capability, automatic/scheduled background maintenance, UAC?

Though I must say Aero offers little value aside from being cosmetics upgrade.

I'm happy with my Vista, though I must admit that Vista needs to be run with at least a 3Gb RAM memory. Many system builder especially in laptop install Vista with a mere 2Gb memory. But I wouldn't blame Vista I would blame the company which installed Vista there.

[longam]

You have to wonder if Windows 7 is too little too late kinda thing.

[AVGWarhawk]

You have to wonder if Windows 7 is too little too late kinda thing.


Why would you think that? Most say 7 is what Vista should have been. For the most part, it is. A few changes here and tweak there. What I'm seeing is new application for Vista and 7. I think XP will slowly be squished out as a result of application that won't function with XP. In short, MS forces your hand to pull the trigger on moving on to the the OS. As soon as 98 was unsupported I was basically toast and had to move to XP.

[FIREWALL]

I haven't found a game yet I can't play on XP.

But a few new ones look better on Vista. FSX for example.

[AVGWarhawk]

I haven't found a game yet I can't play on XP.

But a few new ones look better on Vista. FSX for example.


I had one game that I had to play in 98 compatibility mode with XP and that was Mech Warrior III. Even the it would crash sometimes :oops:. For me, if Vista ran SH4 fine then I was good to go. That is all I really want to mess with for now. Games in the future will work on Vista and 7. Until then, I play SH4.:D

[goldorak]

I haven't found a game yet I can't play on XP.

But a few new ones look better on Vista. FSX for example.

Please, FSX is not even half DX10 compliant. Its a pure DX9 game. So graphics wise its as good on Vista as it is on Xp.
The DX10 preview mode is just that, and is full of bugs. Even ex Aces developers said so.
Find another game FIREWALL. :DL

[FIREWALL]

Please, FSX is not even half DX10 compliant. Its a pure DX9 game. So graphics wise its as good on Vista as it is on Xp.
The DX10 preview mode is just that, and is full of bugs. Even ex Aces developers said so.
Find another game FIREWALL. :DL


You don't have a clue what your talking about.

So if you want to follow my posts and HUMP my leg so be it.

Just stay on your knees.

[longam]

I don't have the accelerator pack for FSX but the patch does take advantage of DX10

DirectX

Flight Simulator X Service Pack 2 previews the new technology of DirectX 10 to
enhance environmental effects such as bloom, realistic water, and virtual
cockpit shadowing. You must have a DirectX 10 graphics adapter to enable the
DirectX 10 features (the check box for DirectX 10 is not visible if you don't
have compatible hardware).

Features and improvements include virtual cockpit shadowing, HDR bloom, water
enhancements, and efficiency improvements to increase performance in some
areas.

[Arclight]

When it comes to resources, Win7 is definitely an improvement over Vista; got 2GB over here and it simply flies. Gaming is a littl emore unstable then XP, but you can't expect anything else from a beta.

Been playing Fallout 3 quite a bit to test it; sometimes the engine won't initialize properly and you get stuck on a black screen. Kill the process in task manager and try again, no problem. Occasional CTD, just like XP, but you can easily play for hours (entire sunday afternoon, for example) without issues. Performance is the same as far as I'm concerned.

AVG: haven't had problems with SH4 yet, but I didn't do anything more then start it up to see if it ran. Think I'll put in some hours this weekend to see if it runs properly. :hmmm:



Been running Win7 for a while now, without any real difficulty. Finally being able to run games in DX10 is a nice addition.

[AVGWarhawk]

I suspected if Vista will play SH4 7 would play it also. Thanks for telling me it works on 7. SH5 is coming:D 7 will have it's issues just as all have since 98. Good to hear you are having success with the beta of 7. I think there is a new build leak.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/04/first-screenshots-of-build-windows-7-build-7077-leak.ars

[Arclight]

I'm sticking with what MS provides, might raise some eyebrows over there if I start sending feedback and reports from other builds. I'm just wondering if a new build will be made available; according to that article a new build should be available, with the RC coming in may. Haven't heard anything from them yet. :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Whatever the case my be I will stay with Vista until well after 7 has been officially release. Vista is running fine for me so there is no dire need to go anywhere with my OS.:up:

[Arclight]

Right you are. I'm still on XP however. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but it's nice finally to be able to use those DX10 capabilities of my videocard. Also, still using only 2GB RAM kept me from moving to Vista, but it doesn't seem to be a limitation with the beta.

On side note; X3 terran conflict doesn't run on Win7. "insert original disc" or something to that extend. DRM strikes again. :dead:

[FIREWALL]

I don't have the accelerator pack for FSX but the patch does take advantage of DX10


Got a deal on FSX Deluxe with Accelaration $29.99

I have it installed on Vista Ultimate 64 and I can see the difference with DX10 over XP.