(RTP) Real Time Patrols

[Sharkley]

Another forum member and I are working on a project and I was hoping to gain some support/help from any other interested members.

Real Time Patrols

This is a simple concept, take real patrols from real U-boats and real area's and translate that over to SH3. Of course a few things will have to change such as start/end dates, but patrol area's and patrol duration will be set and followed. You can play all 1x or use limited TC.

We are working on setting up a BdU that will issue patrols to those who wish to take them, once a patrol is selected you simple post a simple hourly/daily patrol log of events for other to read/share and comment on. Screenshots and videos will be welcome to of course.

We are just getting this project under way so any help would be great, we know there are other things out there that are much like this, but with this one we really want to keep it simple and fun with no serious time wasted, play as little or as often as you wish.We also have a ventrilo server set up for players to log on and chat while playing.

We have a set patrol layout in the works and we will need some captains to come aboard and help out with idea's comments and play testing. This will not be a addon or a mod so you can play a stock game or with as many mods as you wish, you can also play at your one speed as everything is based on gametime and not real world time (other than the month), honesty is the only real thing needed as we count on this to provide patrol logs and ships sunk info.

So if your interested, let me know I can provide links to our blog site (soon to be website?).

Thanks for reading !!

[ReallyDedPoet]

Sounds interesting, good luck with it :yep:

[Sharkley]

Thanks, right now it is more or less a idea in the works. I guess you could sum it up a roleplaying mod (without the mod part) I think it is interesting and it would be cool to have a simple concept to add some depth to a great game.

[JohnnyBlaze]

This could get really interesting if you can get many captains to join you.

I haven't done a 1x TC patrol, but Am on a low TC patrol at the moment.
When patrolling I usually go with 16x-32x TC. During a long transit I might increase TC to 128x and it also has an affect on the weather.

It is currently my 10th day at sea out of Lorient, France. Position is AM0152 Rockall Banks. In real time I started this patrol last sunday.
And right now it is getting a bit boring since I haven't had any contacts so far.

I'm open for the idea of yours. And am excited to see how this turns out :yeah:

[Sharkley]

This could get really interesting if you can get many captains to join you.

I haven't done a 1x TC patrol, but Am on a low TC patrol at the moment.
When patrolling I usually go with 16x-32x TC. During a long transit I might increase TC to 128x and it also has an affect on the weather.

It is currently my 10th day at sea out of Lorient, France. Position is AM0152 Rockall Banks. In real time I started this patrol last sunday.
And right now it is getting a bit boring since I haven't had any contacts so far.

I'm open for the idea of yours. And am excited to see how this turns out :yeah:

Thanks for the support.

The whole idea, is to build a virtual wolfpack to allow people to share thoughts idea's and findings while out at sea in a roleplaying aspect.

Website is underway and March patrol list is being compiled for use.

We want to keep it simple, fun and easy going so people don't feel any pressure, the main aspect is to have fun and enjoy this great game but maybe take it just a bit deeper to allow those who are interested to get into character. There will be no rules just simple guidelines to follow or not follow how you play is up to you, in the SH3 world just like real life people do things different ways.

Looks like more will get done this weekend, so please stay tuned for update info.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Thanks for the support.

The whole idea, is to build a virtual wolfpack to allow people to share thoughts idea's and findings while out at sea in a roleplaying aspect.

Website is underway and March patrol list is being compiled for use.

We want to keep it simple, fun and easy going so people don't feel any pressure, the main aspect is to have fun and enjoy this great game but maybe take it just a bit deeper to allow those who are interested to get into character. There will be no rules just simple guidelines to follow or not follow how you play is up to you, in the SH3 world just like real life people do things different ways.

Looks like more will get done this weekend, so please stay tuned for update info.

Have you see this ( should have posted it up in my other post ), been up and running for awhile and quite successful from what I understand.

http://www.wolvesatwar.com/

There are some others as well.

[Sharkley]

Yes, I have seen it. Not to take anything away from it, but I am looking for something a bit more easy going. Looking at the site it looks amazing, and we are by no means trying to compete with anything out there, we are doing this for fun and enjoyment even if it is only a few that use it.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Yes, I have seen it. Not to take anything away from it, but I am looking for something a bit more easy going.

Roger that, good to have choices :yep:

[Sharkley]

Site is up (still in the works mind you)

Click link in my sig to have a look, still looking for others to take part.

[TorpedoMo]

Hey Sharkley!
Maybe I have some tips for you because two friends of mine and me developed a campaign system like that a year ago, we are currently running the second patrol and it's by far the best way we played sh3.

Some facts:

Campaignsystem:
We play realtime careers and patrols, so one reallife day conforms one game day. Most of the gametime takes part in singleplayer, the convoy attacks are played in MP. The idea: Every player gets the same mission to play in SP. All players get patrol grid or other commands and start their patrol. If one player find a convoy, the BdU tries to form a wolvepack wiht other boats inbound. When all captains have found the convoy in their SP game(all have the same mission) and have postitioned, the convoy attack starts in a MP session. The MP-convoy corresponds in detail the one in SP.
After the attack, the captains go follow again their orders in SP. All players have exactly the same mission data, so this works excellent.
In order to mainain time synchronisation between players, there are fix dates to be keep. For example, the player has to run 3 day ingames from Monday realtime to Thursday morning 0800. If you play these 3 days day by day or by once is similar, but you have to make a savegame every day at 0800. Then the second week part is played from Thursday till monday morning, again 0800.
This is important to keep. Example: The next synchro is on 12. Decembre 1939. Currently you are on 9th. You play 3 day in a row, take a save ervery morning. Then you receive message that another boat has found a convoy, but at December the 11th. There comes the savegame.

If a convoy is found, the game is paused at the time of date the convoy is spotted. Now all ohter players have to get to this date. When all are synchro and all Players found the convoy, MP starts. The sysem maintains that you can't get apart in time more than 4 days.

Communication:
The communication works via email. For every sea day you have to send a special standarted email to the BdU, which contains infos like date, hour, Gridposition (AM1234), Fuellevel, Foodlevel, Weatherreport, Damages, Ammunition, Comment and others.
So the Bdu knows for everyday where all the boats are in detail.
Also, the BdU send its commands via email to the captains. There you have to check the time of date the email comes in. You are only allowed to open if you have reached the time ingame. Example: You are at 8th, before playing you ckeck email, see a Bdu Message for you or any other message by uboat dated 10th. Now you first have to play until 10th, pause game, open email an go on. That maintains that you can't react to happenings too early.

The fine thing is all players can follow the whole radio traffic between boats an BdU on the "open frequency", which gives a lot of atmosphere.
We have also implemented the coded radio messages. Before starting a patrol you get a password protected winzip archiv which contains top secret orders. Maybe then you get a "Kommandantespruch" which is coded. You have to decode the message using the enigma simulator. The decoded message is the password for the winzip archiv. For example it is possible you start your patrol while not knowing the orders and after reaching a specfic seazone you get the Top secret message by the BdU.
For every Emailmessage send the player has to send a status message ingame, to represent the historic problem of the Uboat radio trafic and counterdetection by enemy.

BdU:
We have a player who takes the part of the BdU. He creates the missions, the search groups, wolvepacks, recon missions, harbour infilltration, mining, measurin water dephts for special purposes and many more. The part of the BdU give a hole new shot to the game because commands now are effective, can change during patrol and the captain can communicate with the BdU.
We have strictly rules the captains have to follow the orders of the BdU, also the BdU notes the Captain's duty IN DETAIL, what makes him "know" his captains. These notes are gathered so the BdU can evaluate the achievments of every captain made through his patrol.
Considered facts in evaluating a players patrol are:
Number of days at sea
Number of sunk ships
Tonnage of all sunk ships
Hulldamage
Crewlosses
Fuel -and Torpedomanagement
FoodManagement
Behaviour in Battle, especially on convoys.
All these points form the valuation for the captain. The BdU decides who gets medals, crew advancements (we have a special crew management) and technical courses for crew members to get special abilities like mechanic.
The captains decide which crew member get medals/advancements/technical course.

The first two patrol took about 30-45 days at sea. After entering home port, you have to send a Patrolreport and a Kriegstagebuch, which ervery captain has to write, to the BdU. The amount of damage your boat suffered during patrol will be important for the time your boat is in dock. When the boat is repaired, the captain can start his next patrol with the crew achivements made in harbour. This time last about 2 Weeks.
The boats are always fittet with the newest equipment, but the amount of boats is limited. For example if many boats get lost in patrol, the players maybe have to take part in TypeII for one patrol. Or when the Type IX is acutal, you have to take a Type VII.
The Type IX Boat also gets a knew meaning, because you can take advantage of the long patrol ability.

Another thing to mention is the implemention of the Prisenordung in the game. We created many many "Ship's Documents" .A document contains a Ship name, one of more than hundred different cargo types and a destination harbour. When spotting a neutral merchantmen ingame, you switch to desktop, open a class-specific ship's document and check the infos. If you have a ship heading for a enemy harbour and having Konterbande loaded, you are allowed to sink the neutral merchant. It works excellent and also give new atmosphere. Small quest, little stories and other stuff are bound with the ship's documents.
The historic facts concerning the Prisenordung have been implemented in full extend and exist only at the first time of war.


So maybe I could give you some insiration for your project. I could write still alot more about ours, so many things we managed to merge with the game. The best part of all is the top atmspehre in the game (even in SP) because you feel not beeing alone at sea, be able to communicate with players and BdU, the possibilities of new operating commands and many things more.

I you have question let me know!

Greets,

TorpedoMo

[Sharkley]

Hey Sharkley!
Maybe I have some tips for you because two friends of mine and me developed a campaign system like that a year ago, we are currently running the second patrol and it's by far the best way we played sh3.

Some facts:

Campaignsystem:
We play realtime careers and patrols, so one reallife day conforms one game day. Most of the gametime takes part in singleplayer, the convoy attacks are played in MP. The idea: Every player gets the same mission to play in SP. All players get patrol grid or other commands and start their patrol. If one player find a convoy, the BdU tries to form a wolvepack wiht other boats inbound. When all captains have found the convoy in their SP game(all have the same mission) and have postitioned, the convoy attack starts in a MP session. The MP-convoy corresponds in detail the one in SP.
After the attack, the captains go follow again their orders in SP. All players have exactly the same mission data, so this works excellent.
In order to mainain time synchronisation between players, there are fix dates to be keep. For example, the player has to run 3 day ingames from Monday realtime to Thursday morning 0800. If you play these 3 days day by day or by once is similar, but you have to make a savegame every day at 0800. Then the second week part is played from Thursday till monday morning, again 0800.
This is important to keep. Example: The next synchro is on 12. Decembre 1939. Currently you are on 9th. You play 3 day in a row, take a save ervery morning. Then you receive message that another boat has found a convoy, but at December the 11th. There comes the savegame.

If a convoy is found, the game is paused at the time of date the convoy is spotted. Now all ohter players have to get to this date. When all are synchro and all Players found the convoy, MP starts. The sysem maintains that you can't get apart in time more than 4 days.

Communication:
The communication works via email. For every sea day you have to send a special standarted email to the BdU, which contains infos like date, hour, Gridposition (AM1234), Fuellevel, Foodlevel, Weatherreport, Damages, Ammunition, Comment and others.
So the Bdu knows for everyday where all the boats are in detail.
Also, the BdU send its commands via email to the captains. There you have to check the time of date the email comes in. You are only allowed to open if you have reached the time ingame. Example: You are at 8th, before playing you ckeck email, see a Bdu Message for you or any other message by uboat dated 10th. Now you first have to play until 10th, pause game, open email an go on. That maintains that you can't react to happenings too early.

The fine thing is all players can follow the whole radio traffic between boats an BdU on the "open frequency", which gives a lot of atmosphere.
We have also implemented the coded radio messages. Before starting a patrol you get a password protected winzip archiv which contains top secret orders. Maybe then you get a "Kommandantespruch" which is coded. You have to decode the message using the enigma simulator. The decoded message is the password for the winzip archiv. For example it is possible you start your patrol while not knowing the orders and after reaching a specfic seazone you get the Top secret message by the BdU.
For every Emailmessage send the player has to send a status message ingame, to represent the historic problem of the Uboat radio trafic and counterdetection by enemy.

BdU:
We have a player who takes the part of the BdU. He creates the missions, the search groups, wolvepacks, recon missions, harbour infilltration, mining, measurin water dephts for special purposes and many more. The part of the BdU give a hole new shot to the game because commands now are effective, can change during patrol and the captain can communicate with the BdU.
We have strictly rules the captains have to follow the orders of the BdU, also the BdU notes the Captain's duty IN DETAIL, what makes him "know" his captains. These notes are gathered so the BdU can evaluate the achievments of every captain made through his patrol.
Considered facts in evaluating a players patrol are:
Number of days at sea
Number of sunk ships
Tonnage of all sunk ships
Hulldamage
Crewlosses
Fuel -and Torpedomanagement
FoodManagement
Behaviour in Battle, especially on convoys.
All these points form the valuation for the captain. The BdU decides who gets medals, crew advancements (we have a special crew management) and technical courses for crew members to get special abilities like mechanic.
The captains decide which crew member get medals/advancements/technical course.

The first two patrol took about 30-45 days at sea. After entering home port, you have to send a Patrolreport and a Kriegstagebuch, which ervery captain has to write, to the BdU. The amount of damage your boat suffered during patrol will be important for the time your boat is in dock. When the boat is repaired, the captain can start his next patrol with the crew achivements made in harbour. This time last about 2 Weeks.
The boats are always fittet with the newest equipment, but the amount of boats is limited. For example if many boats get lost in patrol, the players maybe have to take part in TypeII for one patrol. Or when the Type IX is acutal, you have to take a Type VII.
The Type IX Boat also gets a knew meaning, because you can take advantage of the long patrol ability.

Another thing to mention is the implemention of the Prisenordung in the game. We created many many "Ship's Documents" .A document contains a Ship name, one of more than hundred different cargo types and a destination harbour. When spotting a neutral merchantmen ingame, you switch to desktop, open a class-specific ship's document and check the infos. If you have a ship heading for a enemy harbour and having Konterbande loaded, you are allowed to sink the neutral merchant. It works excellent and also give new atmosphere. Small quest, little stories and other stuff are bound with the ship's documents.
The historic facts concerning the Prisenordung have been implemented in full extend and exist only at the first time of war.


So maybe I could give you some insiration for your project. I could write still alot more about ours, so many things we managed to merge with the game. The best part of all is the top atmspehre in the game (even in SP) because you feel not beeing alone at sea, be able to communicate with players and BdU, the possibilities of new operating commands and many things more.

I you have question let me know!

Greets,

TorpedoMo

Sounds good, glad to see others enjoy the same playing style.

I have a few questions:

1 - Do you have a template for your patrol log ?

2 - Do you post the emails on a website or something for all to view ?

3 -Ho do you pull off going from a SP game to a MP game ?? do you play a career or just a single mission and all of you choose the same mission ??

I am looking forward to hearing more from you..

Thanks
:arrgh!:

[Sharkley]

Ok our KTB document is all set for download if anyone is interested, it is based on actual documents, but streamlined a bit. We hope to have the online version up and running ASAP.

Check it out here: http://hosted.filefront.com/Sharkley

ANd tell me :up: or :down:

Many thanks

[JohnnyBlaze]

Looks good to me :up:

[Sharkley]

Looks good to me :up:

Thanks, took about a hour to get it like that feel free to use it any way you see fit.

Site and forum are up.

Many thanks to Subsim for keeping us hooked on these great games, links have been provided back to subsim.

So what are you guys waiting for, this game won't play itself..:haha:

[TorpedoMo]

Sounds good, glad to see others enjoy the same playing style.

I have a few questions:

1 - Do you have a template for your patrol log ?


Its a word.doc, the layout is like the original KTBs and is also to be written like that. Another option is to write down in a real book, as I do, and send the book at the end of the patrol to the BdU! :rock::salute:
Also we have a template for a short end-patrol report when you are back in harbour. It contains facts like the how many sea days, ammo, sinkings, damages and so on.
The deatailed report is as said the patrol log. Everything including screens is send to BdU after petrol.
If you want I send you the templates, also I would translate it to English (we're all Germans)

2 - Do you post the emails on a website or something for all to view ?

Not at the moment. The plan was to use our consisting Hp, but the script we use sucks and lacks of options, so we dropped that option at the moment. When the new Hp is build we will include the communication there.
As is found out, a forum for that works quiete well. Every Boat has its own forum where to post the radio reports. Also the BdU has one, so all players can read all reports. Top secrets could be send as PM.
I expected the email thing not to be very atmospheric or nice to look but I was wrong. Within time i like the way we communicate via Email and it works great. The reports are always send to all players, so every radio message can be read by all players.
To be practicable, some agreements have to be observed.
First the email subject has to be always in the same layout, so the emails can be sorted easy and the overview is kept (elemental for BdU)
The subject for example looks like that:
U39---8 Dezember---1430

A status report message by a captain to the BdU like that:

U-39 an BdU, 16.12.1939, 08:00Uhr

Standort: AN8257

Bemerkungen:
0103: Aufgeblendeten Schwedischen Frachter gestoppt: Autoreifen und Luftschrauben nach der Türkei. Weiterfahrt

Statusmeldungen

Wetter: Bedeckter Himmel, mittlere Sicht, See 2
Dieselbestand: 112 cbm
Proviant: 35 Tagesrationen
Beschädigungen: 2%

Torpedos: Innen 8, Außen 1
Artilleriemunition: 103
Flakmunition: 995

Kommandant


Hope thats ok in German, if you want to I write a translated one.


3 -Ho do you pull off going from a SP game to a MP game ?? do you play a career or just a single mission and all of you choose the same mission ??


The career only exist "on paper". Before starting a patrol, the captains get the mission send by the BdU via email. All get the same one. They start in SP loading the mission, and the career starts. (Every player for itself but within the synchro restrictions). The captains follow their BdU orders, f.e. do a seachpattern in a specific grid or coast near free hunt. If one player can find a convoy the BdU orders all other boats within range to the convoy led by the datas gathered by the captain who detected the convoy. This also happens in SP. While all have exact same mission data, the other players also find the same convoy if they are lead correctly! When all captains have positioned at the convoy in their SP game, the BdU orders attack and a MP mission is send to all players. In this MP mission the positions of the boats are the one in SP, so have the feeling never interrupting the game. The complete attack is done in a MP session, which can last several hours. After the last boat has finished its attack, MP session is endend and the BdU edits now the SP mission with the boats positions after the attack in MP. The mission is send to all players and the patrol goes on till the next convoy attack.

It took a long long time to edit the layers and files in the mission editor for the SP missions but the work has paid off. We have a very high demand on realism, so we created uboatmissions build on historic facts and many "tools" to create more accuracy, like the food system for the boats, the prisenordung, refueling at sea and so on. Also we created a new way of position finding, which allows to determine the boats position not only to AN23, but to AN2345 for example.
We edited a big printable map with KM-Grids where everys captain can pinpoint the other boats positions. Nice stuff!

Impressing is, how perfect wolve pack lead works with this system.
Now the leading boat has to send with short intervalls reports to all captains about course and speed of the convoy, so they can create an intercept course. Its likely you have to lead the boats even for some days if they are far away before they reach and attack can be started.
The precise you give those reports, the better other boats can navigate to convoy. The more players attack the convoy, the less is the chance that your boat is detected in MP.

This is part of the Bdu to tell which boats operate on convoy and which not, also he gives the permission to attack. And if anything unexpectd happens, tell the BdU and await answer! :DL

Another word to the captains career:
I created fine looking medal documents which are handed to captains who have gained distinction. These documents are send by email to the players.
I did those with ps. Let me know if you want one. Its a ps file containing all pre written textfiles for all different medals and the medals itself.
So you have one file for all documents.
We made a assessment system (point system)which imply all the facts like sea days, tonnage ect. to determine who gets a medal. Its not enough to make a lot tonnage to get awards. If you bring home scrapped boat because you are a redneck captain the BdU won't be amused....and maybe you run out dry :oops:

We want to have a long time motivation. So its not that easy to get medals or promotions in short time.

Further you have the possibility to "form" your crew to a specific direction. For example technican focus for more speed (1knot), weapon focus (torpedomaate) or counterdetection focus. That only works over a longer period of time, so you do well bringing your crew fine.

Also to mention is the tonnage adaption we created. Its pritty rediculous you know the exactly tonnage of a sunk ship by the last number. As we know, commanders often over/underestimated their torpedoed ships, and not until reconnaissance like the B-Dienst got hint about the real tonnage the estimated was wrong.
So we have a variation factor that rounds up or down the tonnage of every sunk ship. So now you dont know exactly to amount of tonnage you have sunk. The real number gets determined by the BdU.
This makes the variation of tonnage between the captains and the BdU/Stab possible. And it can be to your advantage or disadvantage. Let you surprise after patrol!

So far by know,
I have still stuff left to tell, more tomorrow.


Hi TorpedoMo Hi TorpedoMo sounds like a really fun setup you are running. Like Sharkley I would love to learn more about the details of running of this. Maybe we could communicate via a PM about some questions I have. Looking forward to discussing this further. sounds like a really fun setup you are running. Like Sharkley I would love to learn more about the details of running of this. Maybe we could communicate via a PM about some questions I have. Looking forward to discussing this further.


@LarryM1953: Apreciate that. Let me know your questions!

If you all have more question, please let me know. I would be glad if many others would give this phantastic system a try!
I gladly share our tools and documents (like the ships documents or the medal document and other) with you if you want.

Greets,

TorpedoMo

[TorpedoMo]

I was wondering if you somehow extracted the mission files from a career campaign, however you create missions using Mission Editor. This is something i will look into for the future.



I'm not clearly sure how it was done in detail because one friend managed this work, while we two others worked in other parts. If you want to know more about that aspect I will ask my friend to explain it in a few words.

We shared the work that had been done, everybody had its part.
One build the missions, one build the so called "Kampagnenpäckchen" which is nothin else than some specific mods and own modifications we need for play. All the files are merged to one pack, which is enabled by the mod enabler.
My part are the documents, the ships documents, medals, templates and so on. Also its me to be asked for historic concerns about the uboat war in our group. So I look for uboat operations or patrols which can be translated to the game/campaign. For example I plan special operations like agent dropoff in St. Lorenz/Canada, build on historic dates or other operations. I created also a finer fuelgauge with the scale of cbm and not %.
Its also important to mention that you need some good guys to get that system run and keep it balancend, especially with the missions. How many ships to place the mission, how many convoys? how tough is the enemy?
We tried to avoid unrealistic, extrem sinkingtonnage which was done one by the mission itself and further with the food provisions rule, what limits the lenght of the patrol. The work payed off. After the second patrol which lasted about 40 days, the average sinking was about 45 to 50.000 BRT per captain.

A big disatvantage of the system is that there are many many ways to cheat. What the players do in SP is not to control. The many notes that have to be given in the daily status reports limit the possibilities, so rough abnormalities would be seen, but there is no real control. So do you know a player informs he was sunk in SP or does he just load the last savegame? (which is max. one day before). What if player has a lot of duds in a attack? Tell the BdU or load again?
What I try to say is that this system only works with reliable and honest guys. But if you find those, it gets a great experience.

Within time, it got a bit like a role play. One reason for that is the very expanded time you patrol lasts and the growing interest what happens to the other boats. Sometimes you maybe get a congrats message from another boat for a big sinking or so. For me it was the first time boats really work together. You have to think about what risk to run to get your boat safe home. You have to clear consider your acts in SP as in MP or maybe your career finds a end. But here the career could last theoreticly for years. At the moment we have finished our second patrol. With harbour laytime between patrols my career lasts for about 3 and a half real time month. And i hope to get to 42' hehe

By the way, we play currently with seven captains in duty, what works fine but already is much work for the BdU. For a 30day patrol there are already 210 standard status report emails to be seen , not counted all other radio messages and the organisation part.

Greets,

TorpedoMo

[Sharkley]

We now have 3 active captains, with two on patrol on one docked.

We are using a forum for communication to avoid the email problem, this way people can post in real time and other captains or guests can view then. I agree cheating could be a HUGE problem, but we are allowing a flexible gameplay style to help people find a way that "works" for them.

We feel that by providing a flexible gameplay style with some historic data we can provide the best of both worlds, of course we are just getting this little venture off the ground, so thing will surely get better as time goes on.

We are staying away from any download content now as our hope is once again offer flexibility but we'll see what the future holds. I can tell you I am hooked on this play style and I am sure as other come aboard they will find it to be a fun way to play this amazing game.

Of course we have so much more work to do, so keep us up-to-date with what is going on with you and we'll keep the updates coming !!