destroyers avoiding torpedoes

[zepo]

Hi to everyone.I had a little problem with my last mission.I found two destroyers and a subkiller.I was in periscope depth and i decided to fire two torpedoes at the first and at the second dd.But i saw that somehow (i think that they see the torpedoe trail) they avoiding them.It happened once more later in the game.It was daytime and the sea was completely calm.If the attack was at night or at rough sea there were more possibilities to hit them?

[Torplexed]

It's not just that they can see the torpedo trail coming. They can also hear the torpedo's high-pitched whine in their hydrophones, and a destroyer is quick enough to get out of the way even at short range. Destroyers are tough targets especially if they know you're there.

[AngronIsAngry]

Sometime later in the game you will get electric propulsion torpedoes, which leave no trail on the surface. Actually until then, you will probably be as comfortable with the steamers to not bother with them.

With Destroyers and sometimes Merchants detecting your torpedoes, you'll have to expect and account for it in a way, but (sadly) there is no "magic" solution for this problem.
Anyways, you usually should be able to find juicier targets. Not to discourage you of killing Destroyers when possible. Heck, I was looking once for the Battle of the Coral Sea and all I found where a couple patrols of 1 Destroyer and 1 Gun Boat. Killing these Destroyers backfired when I got ordered to photo recon the carrier presence at Raboul. Finding two stationary carriers and a load of patroling destroyers, made me curse about using most of my torps prior.

Oh and, welcome to the SubSim [Insert Dramatic Music]

[Ping Panther]

Welcome to SubSim zepo, :salute:

DD's are sneaks & are always a tempting target when there may not be much else. Some rougher sea and night may help with your steamer hits. But, it may be better to just make a run for a larger ship next time. Good hunting!

[Te Kaha]

I like to attack them when they stop and listen. With electric-propulsion torpedos it's almost always a kill.

[Etienne]

I like to attack them when they stop and listen. With electric-propulsion torpedos it's almost always a kill.

If you're close enough.

My favorite is the down-the-throat, throught the stern tube, last-chance-or-we-die shot at an attacking destroyer. Gets the adrenaline pumping.

I also love the accidental destroyer destruction, when they manoeuver into a torp that was meant for someone else. It's more annoying when you hit the Small Old Engine Aft with three torps that were meant for the Large Modern Tanker, tho :D

[Berinhardt]

When attacking destroyers from the side, I try to get as close as possible (<600 yards) to give them as little time as possible to hear and react to the torpedo. Aim for the bow, to ensure that you'll hit the destroyer when it accelerates.

When I'm evading destroyers after a convoy attack, I've had great success in circling around them and attacking them from behind where they can't me or the torpedo coming. At the worst case, I'll damage their engines. Most of the time, the depth charges on the aft deck explode as well. :up:

I would like to start experimenting with launching cuties at 90 feet while they circle overhead.

[Munchausen]

Add to that the fact destroyers accelerate unreasonably fast in SH4. Take a look here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=148591

[Frame57]

The American boats have the slow homing torpedo. I like to set a couple of those after a destroyer. At the very least the destroyer will be out of your hair while you engage a merchant or two.

[jazzabilly]

Historically, sub skippers used the "fan shot" on DD's. Using 3 or four fish, set them shallow, then fire them with bow angles of 1.5, 2, 3 and perhaps 3.5 deg. respectively corresponding to the DD's direction (i.e. if he's going to your right, set right angle, to your left, left bow angle). If you are using early war torpedoes, set the fuses on magnetic (contact influence). This will stack the odds in your favor.

Then slam on the speed and dive like a S.O.B., 'cause you're in for a pounding.

If that seems wasteful of torpedoes, consider that if the weather is clear, they are going to have an easier time finding you and DC'ing you. Sometimes it's kill or be killed.

Oh, and by the by - you need to add the "down the throat" shot to your repetoire.

[zepo]

thanks to everyone for your replies.I was playing for about 3-4 years sh3 with the GWX mod and if i was aiming at about 90 degrees a dd was almost a certain kill.And now at the sh4 i thought that it was a little bit strange.I also think that munchausen has a point.They accelerate unreasonably.And as Ettiene I also love the accidental destroyer hits!!!!Anyway thanks guys for your replies!!!!I must leave...I have to deploy to Makasar Strait. :salute:

[zepo]

Oh and as for the down the throat kill I have done it only once at the Aegean sea with a VII type if i remember well.It was amazing and I was thinking that a kill like that was a little bit fake,you know very action movie style.I dont know if it was posible in real life.(It is the kill when a dd hunts you,its right behind you and you fire a torpedoe from your stern tubes right?)

[Torplexed]

Oh and as for the down the throat kill I have done it only once at the Aegean sea with a VII type if i remember well.It was amazing and I was thinking that a kill like that was a little bit fake,you know very action movie style.I dont know if it was posible in real life.(It is the kill when a dd hunts you,its right behind you and you fire a torpedoe from your stern tubes right?)
In the Pacific it was often literally down the throat. A bow tube shot with both ships closing fast head-to-head. A tough shot to make since you aiming at the very narrow bow aspect of a destroyer instead of at it's broadside.

[Platapus]

Does SH4 actually model whether the ship's crew can see the torpedo wake and have the AI react?

[jazzabilly]

My technique for the "down the throat" shot. A true DTT shot requires 3 fish. One "straight down", one @ 1 deg. port angle, one @ 1 deg. starboard. If the target is inclining toward either side (i.e. 20+ AOB)I will fire an additional fish 2-3 deg. to that side. I find that with this technique the tincan will veer to one side or the other, and takes one broadside, which, if not a dud or too deep, will blow him to hell.:arrgh!:

Personally, I think it works better if he can see the tracks coming at him. So I try not to use my electrics for this. I want him to veer away.

[Armistead]

I let one torp loose at 2500 yards from the stern..just for the heck of it..it was a dtt...dang if it didn't .....go right under his bow and keep on going, set less than 5 ft, low speed and contact.....I was like, wow, it's gonna actually hit..then watched it go right under......gotta hate those low runners, prolly a dud anyway.

But overall, I agree, three shot spread almost always hits em.

[Rockin Robbins]

Does SH4 actually model whether the ship's crew can see the torpedo wake and have the AI react?
Yes, they can both hear and see the torpedo.

[Seminole]

Hi to everyone.I had a little problem with my last mission.I found two destroyers and a subkiller.I was in periscope depth and i decided to fire two torpedoes at the first and at the second dd.But i saw that somehow (i think that they see the torpedoe trail) they avoiding them.It happened once more later in the game.It was daytime and the sea was completely calm.If the attack was at night or at rough sea there were more possibilities to hit them?

Not confined to escorts either, I'm afraid. I posted about the merchants being able to outmanoeuver torpedos too, sometime during the past year. You might want to search up that thread.

Just a few days ago I fired six fish at three convoy ships between 700-1500 yards and they danced around like ski boats. 6 misses. :shifty: Funny thing is that in the most distant line of ships...the ones that really would have had time to avoid the torpedo wakes and would have had the time to avoid them....one unlucky bastage got all 6 fish by some physics that I can't understand.

One thing I've learned about SHIV is to expect the unexpected.

[peabody]

Does SH4 actually model whether the ship's crew can see the torpedo wake and have the AI react?

Agree with RR from my little bit of experience. Just last night I was testing a theory I had with mission editor and two stationary ships (not docked, just speed 0) and needed sink them to test the "trigger and event". Just before the torpedoes got to the Tanker, he sailed away and they went right behind him.
The ships didn't move when I raised the scope, didn't move when I fired but moved just about the time they should be able to see them. Possibly a distance programmed in for sighting torpedoes? I have had a ship turn away when raising the scope if I was close, like in the middle of a convoy or task force.

Just a side note, I found the "Chicken ship" in SH4. I don't know why it is different but the North Hampton will "head for the hills" when the fun begins. I know the ships should scatter and zipzag. But while all the other ships are doing this the North Hampton is on a bee-line for the other side of the ocean. Other than a DD I think it is the hardest ship to hit. (or course we are doing the IJN Campaign, that's why I'm shooting at it)

Peabody

[Rifleman75]

In my first mission out, I was in a S-boat and stumbled across a single DD just parked out in the ocean in the middle of the night. I thought "what a sitting duck"
I sneaked in close and fired a torpedo, he just accelerated out of it's way, then parked again. I did this three more times while aiming farther forward, and every time he dodged them. He never did chase me, once he shot a flare off, but that was it.

I decided to leave after that.

[old_tex]

Most DDs are deaf over about a 40 degree area from behind. Just like our subs. Of course, the lookouts can still see you and at night, the search lights are going. So watch the periscope. When you find one napping, sneak in from behind (Slow and Silent Running) to about 500 yds. Stick him that way. Generally, I come in at about 90 down and come to periscope depth when I'm about 1000 yds from him. Remember to mark the map for his location and heading before making the approach. :up: Old_tex

[Rifleman75]

If they are sitting there with their engines off, wouldn't they be able to hear behind them? Or does the game not take that into account for the AI?

[old_tex]

Maybe, but I've noticed that I can't hear directly behind either. That's with or without the screws turning. :-? Old_tex

[Frame57]

Nope! They did not have that abilty.