A graphical representation of the deficit

[SteamWake]

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

If this doesent make you worry about the way legislation is going right now nothing will.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/UlteriorModem/deficit.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Why, no. He will tax the rich at 2% :har: Still will not cover it:o Yeah, I'm a bit worried. China could call in the chips at any time.

[SteamWake]

Why, no. He will tax the rich at 2% :har: Still will not cover it:o Yeah, I'm a bit worried. China could call in the chips at any time.

Funny you should mention that. Ive heard that the 'rich' could be taxed at 99.9% and still not cover it.

[Zachstar]

Only someone who is completely into class war thinks that is the case. While I favor higher taxes for the rich and extreme tax hikes on companies who even dare to THINK about outsourcing. I know the only way to pay the debt off is to gain the technologies that will enable the economy to boom high enough where tax money flows like a river.

[SteamWake]

Only someone who is completely into class war thinks that is the case. While I favor higher taxes for the rich and extreme tax hikes on companies who even dare to THINK about outsourcing.

Ahh the Irony.. You do realize that the upper 5% income earners pay nearly 90% of the taxes?

[Zachstar]

So?

You think with them paying so much in taxes they would be calling left and right for the gov to use that money to advance the technology that will make them richer. Instead all we ever hear from them is how high taxes are supposedly keeping them from expanding (Sorry is that extra bit of tax keeping you from hiring a few more paid slaves elseware in the world?)

Oh well they face the horrors of tax like many face the horrors of mortgage payments. Its not news.

Tell you what. Ill support lower taxes for the rich if and when full anti-outsourcing laws are signed in.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Wait a second, that line to the far right isn't the border of the graph!

"I only need to spend a lot just once before I balance the budget and save the world. I promise!"

And the thieves in Congress will probably pass it through so they can keep on pinning the President as the ultimate force in American politics while siphoning off whatever fat they can to their districts.

Foreign countries need to start giving us the finger when we want to make more ATM withdrawals. Because we obviously can't control ourselves.

PD

[AVGWarhawk]

Only someone who is completely into class war thinks that is the case. While I favor higher taxes for the rich and extreme tax hikes on companies who even dare to THINK about outsourcing. I know the only way to pay the debt off is to gain the technologies that will enable the economy to boom high enough where tax money flows like a river.


Outsourcing....:hmmm: a Clinton era notion? Companies that will get higher taxes will take their plants somewhere else. Something McCain was attempting to explain. Technology will make a company profitable, the economy will boom high enough where tax money will flow?:hmmm: What model of business are you working with on this notion?

[Zachstar]

McCain lost.. Guess America did not agree.

And yes tech does make a company profitable. If for instance you had widespread fusion and did not have to pay as much for energy that increases profits.

Bigger biz = more tax income of course.

[SteamWake]

So?

You think with them paying so much in taxes they would be calling left and right for the gov to use that money to advance the technology that will make them richer.

Well you might think that but in fact it is the goverment that ties their hands with enviromental constraints, and other legislation. Legislating them to near extinction. The automotive industry is a prime example.

Face it the "Big Company's" are looked upon with suspicion and mistrust. "Anyone who is rich doesent derserve to be or lied cheated and stole to get there"

Class envy indeed.

[AVGWarhawk]

McCain lost.. Guess America did not agree.

And yes tech does make a company profitable. If for instance you had widespread fusion and did not have to pay as much for energy that increases profits.

Bigger biz = more tax income of course.

America does not have to agree. It is the companies you want to tax that matter here. So, the McCain lost comment is moot. Point is, these companies will be setting up shop in other countries. What is the incentive to keep a company here and get taxed out the behind? None! Why do you think companies bring there plants to certain state and cities? It is called incentives. Tax breaks, land for the factory at a low price. Why do the states do this? It creates jobs. Companies are in business for themselves, not to be the nice guy and send over huge tax checks so the "tax money will flow like a river".

[Zachstar]

That argument is tried and failed now that we have seen where many of these companies loyalties lie.

What incentive to keep a company here? How about knowing that you are serving the country and being about advancement for the entire company instead of just the shareholders.

And companies pay hardly anything in taxes compared to what they could be paying. The list of tax breaks for the dumbest things is a mile long.

But they want both. They want the "Freedom" to use near slave labor conditions overseas and use that to lower the worth of the American worker AND they want the tax breaks...

Let me ask you this.. How did they show their gratitude for the bush tax cuts? Holding fast when times got tough to keep America working and strong? Nope the first excuse they got they started moving more jobs out.

[Zachstar]

So?

You think with them paying so much in taxes they would be calling left and right for the gov to use that money to advance the technology that will make them richer.
Well you might think that but in fact it is the goverment that ties their hands with enviromental constraints, and other legislation. Legislating them to near extinction. The automotive industry is a prime example.

Face it the "Big Company's" are looked upon with suspicion and mistrust. "Anyone who is rich doesent derserve to be or lied cheated and stole to get there"

Class envy indeed.

You COMPLETELY lost me with that "Environmental Constraints" So would it enourage industry if we said "pollute all you want! Poison our grandchildren?

China is that way

[AVGWarhawk]

That argument is tried and failed now that we have seen where many of these companies loyalties lie.

What incentive to keep a company here? How about knowing that you are serving the country and being about advancement for the entire company instead of just the shareholders.

And companies pay hardly anything in taxes compared to what they could be paying. The list of tax breaks for the dumbest things is a mile long.

But they want both. They want the "Freedom" to use near slave labor conditions overseas and use that to lower the worth of the American worker AND they want the tax breaks...

Let me ask you this.. How did they show their gratitude for the bush tax cuts? Holding fast when times got tough to keep America working and strong? Nope the first excuse they got they started moving more jobs out.

Argument is one thing...real world is another:


"Several other technology and pharmaceutical companies appear to be following the same playbook, according to studies by economist Martin A. Sullivan, a contributor to the journal Tax Notes. "It's remarkable how (often) there were losses in the U.S. while companies were profitable overseas," says Sullivan. "They want to get profits out of the U.S. if taxes are lower offshore, which they generally are."

As far as the "slave labor" and you side stepped this a few posts back...was it not the Clinton Era that started this outsourcing?

Not attempting to bust your chops but if cost to run a factory overseas is better, this is were the companies will go.

[August]

So?

You think with them paying so much in taxes they would be calling left and right for the gov to use that money to advance the technology that will make them richer.
Well you might think that but in fact it is the goverment that ties their hands with enviromental constraints, and other legislation. Legislating them to near extinction. The automotive industry is a prime example.

Face it the "Big Company's" are looked upon with suspicion and mistrust. "Anyone who is rich doesent derserve to be or lied cheated and stole to get there"

Class envy indeed.
You COMPLETELY lost me with that "Environmental Constraints" So would it enourage industry if we said "pollute all you want! Poison our grandchildren?

China is that way

I agree with you but the thing is that environmental laws are a big reason a lot of our jobs have moved overseas Zach.

[Zachstar]

Then screw em. We need serious anti-outsource laws to end this madness.

Can you imagine how much damage small biz has taken from outsourcing? How can you compete with a company which can pay half its workforce the equivalent of a few dollars an hour?!

They have no loyalty to the nation yet want the tax breaks to continue.

Madness...

[August]

Then screw em. We need serious anti-outsource laws to end this madness.

Can you imagine how much damage small biz has taken from outsourcing? How can you compete with a company which can pay half its workforce the equivalent of a few dollars an hour?!

They have no loyalty to the nation yet want the tax breaks to continue.

Madness...

Yep but I often wonder how much pay adds to the bottom line compared to environmental regulations. We are (or at least used to be) the most productive workers in the world. It stands to reason we should be paid more, but waste water and emissions treatment are pretty expensive.

[Sea Demon]

Then screw em. We need serious anti-outsource laws to end this madness.

Can you imagine how much damage small biz has taken from outsourcing? How can you compete with a company which can pay half its workforce the equivalent of a few dollars an hour?!

They have no loyalty to the nation yet want the tax breaks to continue.

Madness...

The consumers quest for lower prices is also a large part of why your calls for "anti-outsourcing" laws will never happen. There are actual reasons why costs of doing business in America remains high. Over-burdening taxes are only part of the problem. It's also, as said above, other government interference like for example in the auto industry. Environmental mandates for cars that the American markets don't support. To say businesses have no loyalty to the nation is purely bunk. They are in business to make money. The government does not own these businesses, but the government has the ability to foster an environment they can do business in, expand, and create a local workforce. Reducing some of the unneeded regulation (where worker or consumer safety is not concerned) and tax reductions would go a long way to solving the outsourcing problem. And even though August may throw a hissy fit, and threaten us with another Democrat vote, of course, you have to be willing to vote for people less likely to use the governmental interference model.

[Sailor Steve]

I disagree with one point.

I know the only way to pay the debt off is to gain the technologies that will enable the economy to boom high enough where tax money flows like a river.
The only way to pay off the debt is to make Congress stop spending more than they take in. Some think this is done by raising taxes to bring more in; I think it can only be done by forcing Congress to live within their means.

Not that that will ever happen, but I have to dream about something.

[AVGWarhawk]

Then screw em. We need serious anti-outsource laws to end this madness.

Can you imagine how much damage small biz has taken from outsourcing? How can you compete with a company which can pay half its workforce the equivalent of a few dollars an hour?!

They have no loyalty to the nation yet want the tax breaks to continue.

Madness...


It is madness. But, business men being business men only think of their business. Workers are SS# on their payroll. The government is nothing but a FID# that requires a % to be sent quarterly. Being as things are with big business, incentives to build my factory in say Poland for a better tax situation offsets any transportation costs by a large enough margin inclusive of workers payroll etc. It becomes very easy to see why ABC Widget Company goes offshore.

[Sea Demon]

I disagree with one point.

I know the only way to pay the debt off is to gain the technologies that will enable the economy to boom high enough where tax money flows like a river. The only way to pay off the debt is to make Congress stop spending more than they take in. Some think this is done by raising taxes to bring more in; I think it can only be done by forcing Congress to live within their means.

Not that that will ever happen, but I have to dream about something.
I agree Steve. Although, there is alot of fraud, waste, and abuse that also needs to be slashed completely. In addition, I am curious by those who see tax increases as an end all. That usually fosters less economic activity, and reverses growth trends. Meaning eventually, less taxable sources from which to derive your tax base from.

[AVGWarhawk]

I disagree with one point.

I know the only way to pay the debt off is to gain the technologies that will enable the economy to boom high enough where tax money flows like a river.
The only way to pay off the debt is to make Congress stop spending more than they take in. Some think this is done by raising taxes to bring more in; I think it can only be done by forcing Congress to live within their means.

Not that that will ever happen, but I have to dream about something.

Correct, China is assuming our debt. Soon we will be owned by China.

[SteamWake]

I disagree with one point.

I know the only way to pay the debt off is to gain the technologies that will enable the economy to boom high enough where tax money flows like a river.
The only way to pay off the debt is to make Congress stop spending more than they take in. Some think this is done by raising taxes to bring more in; I think it can only be done by forcing Congress to live within their means.

Not that that will ever happen, but I have to dream about something.

Correct, China is assuming our debt. Soon we will be owned by China.

Even China will no longer buy our long term bonds.

And on the "Tax the rich front"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

[Sea Demon]

And on the "Tax the rich front"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

Wait Steamwake. Didn't you know that the "rich" is a re-definable term? :88)

[Digital_Trucker]

And on the "Tax the rich front"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
Wait Steamwake. Didn't you know that the "rich" is a re-definable term? :88)

Yep, soon we will all be "re-educated" to realize that we are all rich. :yep:

[SteamWake]

A point I overlooked in all this tax the 2% talk they have a name for that "Re-distribution of wealth" also known as socialisim.