Manual targeting.. again :)

[Contact]

Guys, could you explain me please how come I can't find merchant ships in ships identification journal ? I can see only warships in it :hmmm: I'm begining my practise again on manual targeting with GWX 3.0 only. And I'm stuck in the first step :shifty:

[Contact]

Nevermind just found it :DL

[Contact]

So I'm doing quite well. Managed to hit a ship with a torpedo by myself only:yeah:

But why does collecting info on target has to be made in correct order ? Ship ID; Range; AOB; Speed ?

I would preffer ship ID; Speed; Range; AOB.

Is it possible to make so on GWX 3.0 ?

[Laufen zum Ziel]

Contact,

Try this great tutorial. All you need is speed & angle on the bow, All the work is done on the Nav map and TDC. After the tutorial and three hours at torpedo school I was manually hitting my targets.

http://www.3rdflotilla.org/videos/manual_targetting_navchart.wmv
(http://http//www.3rdflotilla.org/videos/manual_targetting_navchart.wmv)

[Contact]

Downloading :) Yeah I've spent 4 hours training in naval academy to put accurately torp into target.:shucks: but I did TDC myself too. Very cool indeed :up:

[mmm...Dönitz]

So I'm doing quite well. Managed to hit a ship with a torpedo by myself only:yeah:

But why does collecting info on target has to be made in correct order ? Ship ID; Range; AOB; Speed ?

I would preffer ship ID; Speed; Range; AOB.

Is it possible to make so on GWX 3.0 ?

The maths inside the TDC need the data to be gathered in that order. You cannot work out the actual distance travelled during the time you measure the speed unless you first determine the ship's position and course relative to your own (i.e. range and angle off bow).

I'm rubbish at getting the figures right using the periscope, so I use the "3 mins 15 secs" tip to calculate speed, and plot the target's course on the nav map. I then set up my approach so that the AOB is always 90degrees, enter all the data into the TDC manually and only slave the TDC to the periscope to do the final aiming. Works pretty well, but is still kind of a "cheat" because it relies on the "God's eye" view of the nav map and having contacts automatically updated. I like t pretend that my 1st Officer is doing the plotting and I'm working out the approach attack solution.

[Puster Bill]

Might I humbly suggest that you make yourself one of these and learn how to use it:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5185/dsc00013ym5.jpg

You can find it, and an *EXCELLENT* set of instructions on how to use it, in this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114351

It's dirt simple to make: you print them up, cut them out, and pin the three wheels together. Mine is a bit fancier because I laminated it and used transparency stock for the pointers, but that isn't really necessary to use the side I show here.

[Pisces]

The notepad procedure wants it that way because it uses ID to tell the stadimeter how high the real ship is to calculate range. With that range, and your estimate of AOB, it can figure out what the actual movement is going to be between begin and end of the speed measurent, based on how much the scope moves. This makes speed, the most important value for leading, very dependant on the other values.

There are other ways to determine speed. And all the other values. Taking care of one value at a time is much easier to calm your nerves.You don't even need the notepad to enter them into the TDC, you can enter it directly on the F6 page. But you need to switch the TDC to manual before, and back after, entering the value in the dial(s).

My preffered way for speed is to let the target pass my periscope line. The length from the recognition manual divided by the time it takes (in seconds) can be used to calculate the speed in meters/second. Knots is roughly twice that. But you need to steer a certain course such that your speed doesn't influence the result.

Speed procedure:
1. Set periscope to 0 or 180 degrees. Only look along (or backwards) your direction of movement. Then your speed doesn't matter.
2. Turn uboot until periscope is right infront of the target's bow.
3. set rudder amidship (turning is taboo!)
4. Wait until the bow touches the line and start the stopwatch.
5. stop the stopwatch when the stern/aft-end clears the line.
6. Divide length by time, double that value to get knots.
7. Enter speed in knots into TDC speed dial.

But if you plot on the map, you can figure out his course and speed at the same tiime. You just need to do it at known intervals. But with the nomograph this is piece of cake.

AOB depends on where you are in relation you him. So that changes all the time. But if you project his course into the future (based on some plots not too close together) and at some point in time you take a (relative) bearing and plot that (as true bearing) on the map, the intersection with the target course shows an angle that you can measure using the protractor. With the scope pointing to the target you enter that AOB in the dial.

Even better is to just turn 90 degrees across that target course and wait for the target to approach. As you wait you set the periscope to 0 or 180 (depending on forward of aft tubes), and set AOB to 90 (needle pointing in direction of movement through scope). When the TDC manual/auto switch is back to auto , just pointing the scope takes care of the right AOB. Just take a last range reading and enter it in the TDC before you shoot.

Plotting tutorials:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=90234

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/#Section II - Manual Charting While Moving

[Otto Heinzmeir]

Even better is to just turn 90 degrees across that target course and wait for the target to approach. As you wait you set the periscope to 0 or 180 (depending on forward of aft tubes), and set AOB to 90 (needle pointing in direction of movement through scope). When the TDC manual/auto switch is back to auto , just pointing the scope takes care of the right AOB. Just take a last range reading and enter it in the TDC before you shoot.

Plotting tutorials:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=90234

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/#Section II - Manual Charting While Moving


Great tips Pisces. Much more fun not to rely on the nav map. Your last tip is how I prefer to use up my stern torps. Sit on the targets track, pull forward 500 meters and presto. Perfert AOB 90 for stern attack. Then always wheel about 180 at flank after firing just in case in need a finishing touch. I

I'll be checking out those tutorial threads as well.

[mariuszj1939]

My tip for manual targeting - very effective against convoy (or alone ship) sailing the same course.

- draw the line(s) ahead of target(s)
- draw the line ahead of bow of your u-boot till crossing of target(s) line(s)
you have to change sometimes course of u-boot
- change bearing on periscope to "0"
- measure AOB between target line (course) and u-boot line (convoy is sailing the same course = AOB is equal for all columns)
- enter AOB when bearing is set on periscope 'O'
- later on add speed of target
- now you can fire to any target from convoy having in mind different range to the targets :up:

[Contact]

Thank you everyone for the tips. I'm currently warming up my own way of targeting :) When I feel strong about it I may want to try other ways :)

BTW in the recognition manual I noticed there are some ships twice there and only difference could be seen in mast hight and/or draught value. So how should I know which to use when geting ship ID ?

[Contact]

My best patrol so far on 100% realism :shucks:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9631/clipboardwzp.th.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboardwzp.jpg)

There was attack persicope malfunction and I couldn't get full speed in this patrol. So I decided to sail with my persicope always above water to keep lens dry :) I didn't want to risk going further around britain, so I stayed in my favorite testing/practice polygon grid.

[Otto Heinzmeir]

Thank you everyone for the tips. I'm currently warming up my own way of targeting :) When I feel strong about it I may want to try other ways :)

BTW in the recognition manual I noticed there are some ships twice there and only difference could be seen in mast hight and/or draught value. So how should I know which to use when geting ship ID ?
There isn't a way to know which to use. I think it was done to make the game more realistic since this occurred in real life. Generally the mast height difference is only 1 meter. As far as the depth I would always assume the shallowest because you wouldn't want to try a magnetic and have it set 3 feet too deep.

Most commonly this occurs with destroyers. The general rule for destroyers is to use 25m for the mast as they all tend to be 1 or 2 meters from 25m. This will allow you to be accurate enough to plot their track and save time because you don't need to flip through 20 pages to figure out which DD it is.

Ironically I intend to do a manual targeting tutorial with illustrations. Yea there are plenty available but each one is a bit different which helps. I was starting to take screens for plotting a target in rough seas when this DD shows up out of no where and I had to rush my attack so my tutorial got side tracked.

[Contact]

Thank you everyone for the tips. I'm currently warming up my own way of targeting :) When I feel strong about it I may want to try other ways :)

BTW in the recognition manual I noticed there are some ships twice there and only difference could be seen in mast hight and/or draught value. So how should I know which to use when geting ship ID ?
There isn't a way to know which to use. I think it was done to make the game more realistic since this occurred in real life. Generally the mast height difference is only 1 meter. As far as the depth I would always assume the shallowest because you wouldn't want to try a magnetic and have it set 3 feet too deep.

Most commonly this occurs with destroyers. The general rule for destroyers is to use 25m for the mast as they all tend to be 1 or 2 meters from 25m. This will allow you to be accurate enough to plot their track and save time because you don't need to flip through 20 pages to figure out which DD it is.

Ironically I intend to do a manual targeting tutorial with illustrations. Yea there are plenty available but each one is a bit different which helps. I was starting to take screens for plotting a target in rough seas when this DD shows up out of no where and I had to rush my attack so my tutorial got side tracked.

Rgt. as for situation when DD comes out of the fog straight at you in 15 knots all you wish to do is grab your legs in hands and order CRAAAASH DIIIIIIVE!!!!!
Heart stoping moment for sure and there is deffinetly no thoughts left on attacking it with all that calculation in TDC :03: