View Full Version : When You Shouldn't Shoot A Kongo
jazzabilly
02-23-09, 01:32 AM
W of Truk, January 1944
Now, I love sinking BB's as next as the next guy. So when I saw 2 BB's in their usual suicidal column formation, with only 2 dd's running cover, and with rough seas (lousy sonar weather), I took one down with my last 6 torpedoes. And sneaked away as if it was a routine kill.
But after seeing THIS following in the next TF approx. 15 min. behind.....
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/citrjazz/yamato_class.jpg
I still have the immortal words of Eric Cartman ringing in my ears.
GOD-D***it!!
Fincuan
02-23-09, 01:38 AM
Don't worry, you would have had an extremely hard time bringing that down with only 6 torpedos. You probably, even if unconciously, made the right choice :up:
Webster
02-23-09, 01:39 AM
only next time it wont be there and your still mad lol.
gotta take whats handed to you
SteveW1
02-23-09, 05:48 AM
Be more Aggresive use your deck gun :arrgh!:
Steve
Rockin Robbins
02-23-09, 06:18 AM
And how would that work out against those nice 18" popguns?:gulp:
Won't be a piece of the sub left that's larger than a quarter!:()1:
Torplexed
02-23-09, 08:04 AM
I'd be curious to know if the ponderous and slow main battery of a battleship could hit something as small as a sub. I have every confidence the quick-firing secondary battery could tear one up though. To this day it's not clear whether any any of Yamato's big guns hit anything at the Battle of Leyte Gulf although it's a good bet her secondaries did.
AVGWarhawk
02-23-09, 10:10 AM
Now, that is just heart breaking. :-?
Starforce2
02-23-09, 10:48 AM
it's possible had you gotten far enough away, say 4500-6500 yards you could have slowed and shelled it without much problem. I've done this with DD's and heavy cruisers who've not seen me at all at night, but it depends on the exact conditions, which require a bit of haze. Plus it looks like ya had a bit of moon there...
OneTinSoldier
02-23-09, 12:10 PM
Don't worry, you would have had an extremely hard time bringing that down with only 6 torpedos. You probably, even if unconciously, made the right choice :up:
I use TMO 1.6.3 plus RSRDC 4.10.x and don't play the stock game. With that said, it's hard for me to imagine any ship withstanding anything more than 3 or 4 decent torpedo hits. If this was in the stock game, how many torps are needed for that BB?
Yamato in RL took what, 10+ fish, and maybe twice as many bombs?
Te Kaha
02-23-09, 01:23 PM
In RFB 1.51 - the previous version of the current one - I set up a test mission with just the Yamato, "steaming" at 5 kts. It took 10 torpedos to sink her, including 2 which caused secondary explosions.
Again in RFB 1.51, in my campaign, I hit the Yamato with 6 torpedos, somewhere south of Japan - yes, on her suicidal trip to Okinawa - and she was steaming away doing 14 knots.
I'd rather save my torpedos for ships I can actually sink.
RFB hasn't changed the warship DMs at all from stock, BTW. Not yet, anyway.
jazzabilly
02-23-09, 01:47 PM
Well, this is how I spent my last fish.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/citrjazz/Kongo_shinda_desu.jpg
Soundman
02-23-09, 01:56 PM
Yamato in RL took what, 10+ fish, and maybe twice as many bombs?
So..the deck gun might as well be a pea shooter :haha: ..I've been playing this game pretty regular since it first hit the shelves and I've yet to come accross a battleship, let alone, the Yamato. Best luck had was putting under a couple of carriers.
Te Kaha
02-23-09, 02:23 PM
RFB hasn't changed the warship DMs at all from stock, BTW. Not yet, anyway.
I know this - just mentioned it in case someone asks which mods are loaded.
Platapus
02-23-09, 10:09 PM
As was written in the German Sub commander's handbook, it is better to take the target you have rather than hold off on the chance of a better target coming along.
rubenandthejets
02-24-09, 01:21 AM
The Kongo actually sank, right?
The Yamato is damn near unsinkable-10+ Mark 14s is about right, I managed it once in the San Bernadino Strait in TMO. (Oct 24/25 '44) Managed to stop her with six, snuck back up to her later and unloaded again, some pretty well aimed shots below the turrets too....it took a lot of doing, but BOOOYA! Man it felt good!
jazzabilly
02-24-09, 04:47 PM
Yeah, the Kongo sank. Too bad you don't get any renown for major warships damaged. Technically, you should. Putting Yamato (or Musashi) out of action for months would realistically be quite an achievement.
Xapp696
02-26-09, 11:34 AM
Using RSRD and TMO, I snuck into Truk and found the Yamato and a Kongo at anchor. I sat between them and unloaded all 4 rear fish at the Kongo, which rolled over and sank fairly fast, but the Yamato was a different kettle of fish all together. I fired all 6 bow torps in a spread that went from "stem to stern" and she hardly even listed, so I submerged underneath her, got to the other side, and unloaded all 4 rear reloads into her. Even THEN I still needed to come about and put 2 more bow reloads into her before she sank. 6 torpedoes probably wouldn't have even slowed her down, as the minimum torps I have ever used to sink a Yamato was 10.
Armistead
02-26-09, 07:02 PM
It seems if I hit a Kongo in the first rear turrer closet to the bridge, they will go easily with two. Sunk one with one. I do run mine 5ft under the keel. When torps work late 43, I notice shooting below the keel things blow up much easier.
Lt Cmdr. Duke E. Gifford
03-01-09, 01:50 AM
I haven't had a whole lot of time to get serious, so I'm still fooling with the stock game, and the quick missions, as I often do not have more than 3 hours a week to devote to SH.
But I have been fooling with one of the quick missions that has a Yamato class battleship, along with several Kongo class battleships and various cruisers. I can normally take a Kongo with 3 fish, although a couple of times it has taken four.
Since it takes 60K tons to complete the mission, I thought I'd try to take out the Yamato class battleship, since I've gotten to the point where I can take two Kongos and a Mogami cruiser without even reloading. HAH! Big mistake.
I put six into the starboard side of that Yamato class monster, went under, came up, and put 3 into the port side, and it barely slowed down. By then the destroyers were swarming all over me, and I could never get lined up on her again.
I tried 4 more times. I can finish that mission every time shooting the Kongos, without a scratch. If I try the Yamato, I either end up out of fish from knocking the tin cans over, or I get too busted up by the tin cans while I'm saving fish for the Yamato. Well, once I put the usual 9 fish in the Yamato, sank two tin cans, crippled two tin cans, and by then, the Yamato got far enough away I couldn't catch her, even though I had 6 fish left with her name on every one.
Loud_Silence
03-01-09, 05:51 PM
LOL i just remember when i found TWO (2) yamatos near makassar strait, with rough seas. I put 6 torps on one of them. That didn't sank it, but it was left almost dead in the water with some DDs searching around. I waited my crew to reload the tubes and then put another 6 on her. This time she went right to the bottom:D
Then i had some fun with one of the searching DDs when i showed him my rear tubes. And finally i emptied my reserves on another BB and the second yamato. The yamato survived the strike, the BB didn't:D
Man, that was my best patrol ever with difference.:rock:
Armistead
03-02-09, 04:00 PM
it's possible had you gotten far enough away, say 4500-6500 yards you could have slowed and shelled it without much problem. I've done this with DD's and heavy cruisers who've not seen me at all at night, but it depends on the exact conditions, which require a bit of haze. Plus it looks like ya had a bit of moon there...
Seems to be a game failure as I use to do this all the time. If they can't see you, many times they just act as if on patrol and you can bomb away.
TheSamuraiJedi
03-02-09, 07:37 PM
The accounts of Yamato taking that number of torpedoes is also dependant on US pilots reporting hits. For instance, they reported Musashi took something around 13-15 torpedoes, but the survivors of Musashi report less than that.
An educated average between the Yamato survivors and US pilots would indicate that Yamato was hit by between 5-9 Torpedos total, tho upwards of 35-40 were actually released at her.
Morpheus
03-05-09, 09:16 PM
i stopped the yamato with 1 torpedo
and sank her with another 5
aim ftw :sunny:
Rifleman75
03-08-09, 11:49 AM
I stumbled on a Yamato parked by the Truk harbor, along with some other BB. I was in a S-boat with a full load of Mk10's.
I figured both of the ships would take off soon as I attacked, but they didn't, they just sat there while I reloaded and fired again, and again.
It took the full load of mk10s to down the Yamato. When I was leaving there were 5 destroyers headed to the scene of the crime.:arrgh!:
I visited Truk harbor again later and sunk another BB, and then saw another Yamato sitting there, so I hurried back to base to rearm and then back to Truk. It was still sitting there, but after I sank that one, it didn't count it for me :damn:
The one time it doesn't count a ship, it's a Yamato!
Running RFB + RSRD
gimpy117
03-09-09, 07:48 PM
Well, this is how I spent my last fish.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c27/citrjazz/Kongo_shinda_desu.jpg
looks productive :arrgh!:
gimpy117
03-09-09, 07:50 PM
I stumbled on a Yamato parked by the Truk harbor, along with some other BB. I was in a S-boat with a full load of Mk10's.
I figured both of the ships would take off soon as I attacked, but they didn't, they just sat there while I reloaded and fired again, and again.
It took the full load of mk10s to down the Yamato. When I was leaving there were 5 destroyers headed to the scene of the crime.:arrgh!:
I visited Truk harbor again later and sunk another BB, and then saw another Yamato sitting there, so I hurried back to base to rearm and then back to Truk. It was still sitting there, but after I sank that one, it didn't count it for me :damn:
The one time it doesn't count a ship, it's a Yamato!
Running RFB + RSRD
I find it harder to do that in stock...what gives....
Etienne
03-10-09, 12:32 AM
I managed to put four torps into a Yamato today (All I had left were seven torps in the aft room, and one in #1 tube). Aimed for the turrets, pretty deep, didn't even slow her down.
Shot the forward torp at a Shokaku CV, and since it was only one torp, figured "What the heck - it's 1943, and I've only the one. It's probably not going to sink it ANYWAY." So I set it to go under, contact / influence.
Guess which ship didn't even slow down. Guess which one started the longest string of secondary explosions I've ever heard and sank.
Oh well, 28k tonnes is 28k tonnes...
OK, after a night worth of attacks, I have put 9 torps into her port side, 7 torps into her starboardside, all set between 34-30 feet deep. Her escorts have abandoned her, and have since sailed away.
There she is, a Yamato Class DBB. 282 miles southwest of Kagashima, just sitting there dead in the water.
Of course, my 5 inch deck gun does nothing, and I am out of torpedoes, what do I do?
Etienne
03-10-09, 07:54 AM
Of course, my 5 inch deck gun does nothing, and I am out of torpedoes, what do I do?
Have you tried ramming? :rotfl:
I'm affraid that's pretty much it, althought you might want to expand all your ordnance first, including the AA ammo. Otherwise, it's time to move on.
The Yamato's just one frustrating thing...
Of course, my 5 inch deck gun does nothing, and I am out of torpedoes, what do I do?
Have you tried ramming? :rotfl:
I'm affraid that's pretty much it, althought you might want to expand all your ordnance first, including the AA ammo. Otherwise, it's time to move on.
The Yamato's just one frustrating thing...
Although I doubt it'll happen, I can always sail away, reload on torps at Manus Island (the closest resupply point), and sail back ... of course the chances of her still being there is slim to none. But what other choice do I have ... besides ramming it, which would just as useless.
Te Kaha
03-10-09, 01:29 PM
Maybe worth a try. I once had two merchants, one crippled dead in water, while I moved away and torpedoed and sank another one. I was heading back to the crippled one and it was still there.
Don't know how far away I was, but it was out of visual range and out of sound range (no radar, German U-Boat), and I can't tell how much time passed by in between.
Etienne
03-10-09, 10:12 PM
I had an epiphany today - The Yamato exists solely to use up valuable american torpedoes, and keep them from actually sinking stuff.
Damn that thing. Sooooo tempting! Sooooo close!
Yet frickin' insinkable.
OK, after a night worth of attacks, I have put 9 torps into her port side, 7 torps into her starboardside, all set between 34-30 feet deep. Her escorts have abandoned her, and have since sailed away.
There she is, a Yamato Class DBB. 282 miles southwest of Kagashima, just sitting there dead in the water.
Of course, my 5 inch deck gun does nothing, and I am out of torpedoes, what do I do?
To slightly misquote from 'Aliens' Try using harsh language?
Armistead
03-13-09, 01:00 PM
I think it was April 43, but in 43 Truk is the place to go. I found one TF with 24 ships, sank Yamato and two Carriers. Went to Tulgari to refit, came back to Truk a different TF with another 24 ships, sank the Yamato again, Fuso and a carrier..another refit and yet another different TF with 24 ships...after it was over and two refits sunk 340K tons. Went back a forth time and two BB's I sunk didn't score.
I seldom harbor rape, but wondered after sinking 20 ships, if the game stops scoring. I've hit 20 ships twice and it stopped scoring. However, it may have to do with tonnage.
They need to put some idle dd's around all the stationary harbor ships so something will attack you.
At combinedfleet.com, the TROM for Yamato lists 6 certain hits, and say that "several" of the final VTs (6 TBFs) made hits.
That puts the lower limit at 7, the upper limit at 12. That's in addition to a large number of bombs (AP and GP).
Musashi, after 11 torpedo hits (and many bomb hits and near-misses):
The departing American pilots report MUSASHI smoking, heavily down by the bow and dead in the water.
MUSASHI is, in fact, down by the bow, but is making 16 knots on three shafts. After counter-flooding, her starboard list is reduced to 1-2 degrees, but her speed falls off to 13 knots.
Combined fleet then goes on to list the 11 hits of the last attack, including where they hit.
So according to combinedfleet, that's 22 torpedo hits on Musashi.
tater
Sorry for the thread rez. But anyone here remember how I mentioned I had used almost my full complement of fish on a Yamato and it was sitting there dead in the water? Well I made best possible speed to the nearest port, south of Mindanao, in stock, and made best possible speed back. Nearly 10 days layer, of course she wasn't there. Must have been towed back by a passing convoy or an Ocean Going tug sent out from the Home Islands. To bad to, I would have loved to finish her off. However, on the upside, even though my score won't reflect it, I know. She'll be out of commission in a dry dock some where for a good long time; hopefully long enough, since it's JUN '44 in game, to hopefully miss the action at Leyte Gulf, Sibuyan Sea, and Samar.
Again, don't waste fish on Yamato. It's almost impossible.
Torplexed
04-02-09, 07:40 PM
She'll be out of commission in a dry dock some where for a good long time; hopefully long enough, since it's JUN '44 in game, to hopefully miss the action at Leyte Gulf, Sibuyan Sea, and Samar.
Again, don't waste fish on Yamato. It's almost impossible.
It's my understanding that when you sink a capital ship like the Yamato, the game resurrects it anyway until such time as it was historically sunk. So as frustrating as it sounds she'll likely be in the order of battle at Leyte Gulf, sunk, damaged or otherwise. :damn: I've never understood why the game is coded that way.
However, given how little this giant white elephant of a warship contributed to the Japanese war effort overall it probably makes no difference. Victory is inevitable. More target practice for American pilots. :up:
If only the game kept track of such things, so damaged vessels would have to be laid up, and thus not be seen again until they would be able to return to duty. That way damaging ships would actually be worth it.
I had a lucky day, I got appointed to an patrol in the Truk area. I went if something was up at the Truk harbour, last time I went there there was a stationary light cruiser. When I did my observation periscope up I saw a big tasty Fuso battleship, and then I heard "ship spotted", I looked at the bearings and there it was. A stationary Yamato, it took al my stern and aft torpedo's, 8 in total before it sunk.
Lucky me there weren't any destroyers around, I went of silent running and to battlestations and the torps were reloaded in no time. Sunk the Fuso too with 6 torps.
That was a productive patrol.. :D
They need to put some idle dd's around all the stationary harbor ships so something will attack you.
True, you would guess that such ships would be guarded closely, the DD's at truk were all guarding further away from the harbour. Though, in my case, there were a lot of planes buzzing around, didn't do much in the dead of the night.
Lt Cmdr. Duke E. Gifford
04-08-09, 08:46 PM
So far, just fooling with the quick missions (all I have time for) I have made at least a dozen attacks on Yamato class battleships. I've put as many as ten torpedoes into them, and not sunk one yet.
I have even resorted to aiming my torpedoes to stop the ship, one way or the other, so I can hang around and put more fish in it. I actually hit one with six torpedoes, all between the forward turret and the bow, and it only slowed it down to 10 knots from 16 knots. The destroyers kept me so busy I couldn't get a shot. The next time, I put 4 torpedoes directly into her screws, all 4 hits were from the shafts to the screws, and lifted the stern up. She steamed off at 12 knots, and the destroyers swarmed all over me.
The best one was 6 hits from the bow tubes, all in the center of the starboard side from less than 1000 yards, followed by popping up on the port side and putting 4 from the stern tubes into the port side dead center from about 700 yards. I think she steamed off at 10-12 knots.:damn:
Try spreading your shots out. If I get a broadside shot i'll put one at the stern, one under the after battery, one under the stack, one under the tallest point in the superstructure, and one each under the two forward batteries. This normally slow it down pretty good.
If I'm lucky I'll get some secondaries and after 5 minutes or so it'll develop a good list. I'll swing around and pop four more fish into it and that is normally enough to make it pop.
Wolfling04
04-09-09, 04:10 AM
I remember making single mission a long long time ago, and if I remember rightly I think I used about 16-18 fish into her starboard side...from stem to stern.
That finally finished her off, after waiting some time for her to capsize
nfitzsimmons
04-09-09, 09:33 AM
I sank one a while back with 5 fish. First wone caused a massive explosion forward, and it went down after the next 5 hits, still moving at about 9 kts. Of course then the 5 escorting DD's had a few things to say to me about it...
Max2147
04-09-09, 11:56 AM
At combinedfleet.com, the TROM for Yamato lists 6 certain hits, and say that "several" of the final VTs (6 TBFs) made hits.
That puts the lower limit at 7, the upper limit at 12. That's in addition to a large number of bombs (AP and GP).
Musashi, after 11 torpedo hits (and many bomb hits and near-misses):
Combined fleet then goes on to list the 11 hits of the last attack, including where they hit.
So according to combinedfleet, that's 22 torpedo hits on Musashi.
tater
But the third Yamato (Shinano) went down with just 4 submarine torpedo hits.
Torplexed
04-09-09, 07:36 PM
But the third Yamato (Shinano) went down with just 4 submarine torpedo hits.
The Shinano's demise had a lot to do with stupidity and circumstance. Not all of her watertight doors had been installed. The ship's compartments hadn't been tested for water tightness and most of her crew was untrained with a good percentage of them being civilian dockyard workers still helping fit the vessel out. Plus, Capt Abe insisting on proceeding at speed despite the torpedo hits judging the damage inconsequential. Rather than face the embarrassment he went down with the ship. Fearing the impact on national morale, the sinking was concealed from the Japanese people until after the war.
MonTana_Prussian
04-09-09, 07:48 PM
The Shinano's demise had a lot to do with stupidity and circumstance. Not all of her watertight doors had been installed. The ship's compartments hadn't been tested for water tightness and most of her crew was untrained with a good percentage of them being civilian dockyard workers still helping fit the vessel out. Plus, Capt Abe insisting on proceeding at speed despite the torpedo hits judging the damage inconsequential. Rather than face the embarrassment he went down with the ship. Fearing the impact on national morale, the sinking was concealed from the Japanese people until after the war.
All true,and the fact that she was completed as a CV,not a BB. Different subdivision,avgas storages tanks probably empty.
Max2147
04-10-09, 12:07 AM
The Shinano's demise had a lot to do with stupidity and circumstance. Not all of her watertight doors had been installed. The ship's compartments hadn't been tested for water tightness and most of her crew was untrained with a good percentage of them being civilian dockyard workers still helping fit the vessel out. Plus, Capt Abe insisting on proceeding at speed despite the torpedo hits judging the damage inconsequential. Rather than face the embarrassment he went down with the ship. Fearing the impact on national morale, the sinking was concealed from the Japanese people until after the war.
There was also a weak spot in the Yamato class armor where the torpedo blister met the rest of the hull. The Archerfish's torpedoes all hit this spot.
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