got this in the old inbox

[GoldenRivet]

So... now that obama has managed to get his $787,000,000,000.00 stimulus package passed (for those of you who struggle with math thats just shy of one trillion dollars or nearly 9% of the GDP for every nation on earth combined), large corporations will be getting billions of your tax dollars... but so will the states and various institutions

but the bottom line is.... what does it mean for the average joe?

1. guess what?! great news! your going to be given $400! (or $800 if your married) this starts in June... the bad news is - it translates to about $13 extra per week. (for those of you who struggle with math, that's just shy of $14... or enough to feed a family of 4 at McDonalds)

2. another perk! "job creation" - more like "job saving" though. the plan "promises" to save 3.5 million jobs by providing federal funding (your money again) to states. This is great news if you are a. a postal worker b. a law enforcement worker or c. a construction worker... If you work most any other job... well, you're pretty much on our own. oh well.

3. $8,000 toward the purchase of a new home! one problem... by the time you pay money down on a home, and get yourself a mortgage, and make payments for 25 - 30 years... after paying interest and other fees associated with home buying you just paid $350,000 for a home which listed for $125,000 anyway!!! That $8,000 sounds minuscule doesn't it? it also sounds familiar - didnt something similar get us into this fine economic mess to begin with ? ? YES! now... a lot of people who cant afford homes may be more likely to buy homes because they think with Obama's help they can finally afford their own home! trouble is... in 2 or 3 years your back in the same boat you started in!

4. unemployment reprieve... if you are unemployed your going to get an extra $25 per week! yes you read that right.... TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS. I'll bet if you are struggling week to week that extra $25 is going to be spent right awa on stimulating the economy right? WRONG... chances are your either going to rat hole it away, or spend it on an essential like food, water, medication or gasoline (rightly so) but the point is.... your not going to rush out and buy a plasma screen tv like old uncle Obama wants you to.

5. Tax perk for new car buyers... ok so you buy a new car in 2009... guess what? you get to deduct the sales tax! the only problem is - this adds up to almost no perk at all... and what few extra hundred dollars you will probably get back on yoru tax return NEXT YEAR wont make buying a $30,000 car worth it this year... or ever!

Theres that change you wanted America.

have fun while Obama rams his "Stimulus package" up your ass.

[Spike88]

About number 2. 14 dollars is not enough to feed a family of four at mcdonalds. A combo meal costs 4-5 dollars. Multiple by 4 and you're looking at roughly 20 dollars without tax.

[SteamWake]

This is why I dont make my email addresses public knowledge.

[GoldenRivet]

This is why I dont make my email addresses public knowledge.

i didnt say it came from a total stranger :up:

and yes... you can feed 4 people at McDonalds for as little as 5 or 6 bucks

[AVGWarhawk]

About number 2. 14 dollars is not enough to feed a family of four at mcdonalds. A combo meal costs 4-5 dollars. Multiple by 4 and you're looking at roughly 20 dollars without tax.

Yeah, you need at least $20.00 unless everyone is eating a happy meal:D Can I have your toy:06:

[AVGWarhawk]

3. $8,000 toward the purchase of a new home! one problem... by the time you pay money down on a home, and get yourself a mortgage, and make payments for 25 - 30 years... after paying interest and other fees associated with home buying you just paid $350,000 for a home which listed for $125,000 anyway!!! That $8,000 sounds minuscule doesn't it? it also sounds familiar - didnt something similar get us into this fine economic mess to begin with ? ? YES! now... a lot of people who cant afford homes may be more likely to buy homes because they think with Obama's help they can finally afford their own home! trouble is... in 2 or 3 years your back in the same boat you started in!

Yes, this is the same as it has been. With one exception, no one handed me $8000.00 for a home purchase. :-?

[GoldenRivet]

3. $8,000 toward the purchase of a new home! one problem... by the time you pay money down on a home, and get yourself a mortgage, and make payments for 25 - 30 years... after paying interest and other fees associated with home buying you just paid $350,000 for a home which listed for $125,000 anyway!!! That $8,000 sounds minuscule doesn't it? it also sounds familiar - didnt something similar get us into this fine economic mess to begin with ? ? YES! now... a lot of people who cant afford homes may be more likely to buy homes because they think with Obama's help they can finally afford their own home! trouble is... in 2 or 3 years your back in the same boat you started in!
Yes, this is the same as it has been. With one exception, no one handed me $8000.00 for a home purchase. :-?
so war hawk ... how much would a person be expected to put as a down payment on a home on average?

8K? 10K? 15K? its in that range i know for a fact.

all im saying is... that $8K is going to be gone in one single stroke of the pen.

no longevity and absolutely no return on your "investment"

all this is going to do is give a bunch of people who cant afford a down payment the opportunity to make a down payment on a home they cant afford anyhow

[AVGWarhawk]

Before all of this it was pretty much must closing costs or 5%. $5000-$8000 is all you need. They are pushing the same BS loans that got us here. 20+ years ago it was 20-25% down. This higher percentage created some good things and some bad things. Good this is, these people who saved up 20-25% as a down payment are usually those that we will find very credit worthy down the road and probably not default on a loan. But, this 20-25% excluded those that did not have the means to come up with 20-25% down payment. In short, no American dream....until....Billy Clinton did a bit of strong arming to lenders and said find a way for those that can not come up 20-25% for a down payment an easier way to get a loan. They came up with just getting closing costs ($5000.00-$8000.00) and your in. This figure is much easier to obtain than $20000.00. Sadly, $5000.00-$8000.00 will get anyone in just about any loan. Loan officer say sure you can handle this loan at $350,000.00....(shhhhhh..if you don't eat, need cloths, pay utilites:03:) Lots of people got suckered like this. I know I rant about the near-do-wells. But I have really to rant about bright people who really did not think ahead. I have to :nope: at the banks because the did pull the wool over some folks eyes.

And, home ownership has it's perks....a nice tax write off each hear. So, your investment is not a total loss.

all this is going to do is give a bunch of people who cant afford a down payment the opportunity to make a down payment on a home they cant afford anyhow

Exactly my friend....same BS loans

[GoldenRivet]

The government needs to just stay the hell out of it if you ask me.

if you cant afford a home you just cant, thats a sad fact.

i cannot afford a home right now.

sure i can afford the monthly note on a mortgage... problem is i dont have enough to come up with a down payment.

BUT - if i live a frugal lifestyle over the next 5 years... I WILL have enough for a down payment.

problem is... most folks in america - in the span of ONE generation - have gone from the attitude of "work hard for it for several years and you will get it" to an attitude of "if i work the numbers and take advantage of all the credit angles i can get it now!"

the problem is... when one works all the little technicalities and loop holes and credit angles, there is no guarantee you will be able to afford the home 5 or 10 years from now.

financially people have become short sighted, and used to the idea of instant gratification. :nope:

[UnderseaLcpl]

Politically, I have no sympathy for people that can't manage their own finances. Loan terms and the like are spelled out quite clearly for those who bother to read them. Figuring out what it will cost you is a pretty simple excercise in mathematics.
What I can't abide is that after years of responsible behavior and planning, I am forced to pay for their mistakes, in terms of taxes, inflation, and sacrificing personal liberties to the state.

Personally, I do have sympathy for these people. We all make mistakes, sometimes big ones. I donate to charities I deem appropriate, and I've actually helped build respectable homes for some of those who are less fortunate, which is more than my tax dollars will ever do. I'd encourage anyone here to volunteer their time and/or money to Habitat for Humanity, one of my favorite charities.

However, I cannot abide being forced to support a state cause when such causes have so often been ineffective and/or motivated by political gain. The Federal legislature is not only foolish for supporting this bill, it is overstepping many Constitutional bounds, destroying the currency, failing the American people, and infringing upon the fundamental principles of economic and personal freedom which helped make this nation great.

The last time a recovery package of this scale was tried it amounted to billions of dollars of debt that we are still paying off today. One of its' most enduring legacies, Social Security, is threatning to bankrupt the entire nation. Even Social Security beneficiaries would have a hard time making a case that their Social Security money could not have been better invested elsewhere.

The American People can take better care of themselves and each other than the state will ever be able to, even if the state's intentions were always honest.

[Spike88]

3. $8,000 toward the purchase of a new home! one problem... by the time you pay money down on a home, and get yourself a mortgage, and make payments for 25 - 30 years... after paying interest and other fees associated with home buying you just paid $350,000 for a home which listed for $125,000 anyway!!! That $8,000 sounds minuscule doesn't it? it also sounds familiar - didnt something similar get us into this fine economic mess to begin with ? ? YES! now... a lot of people who cant afford homes may be more likely to buy homes because they think with Obama's help they can finally afford their own home! trouble is... in 2 or 3 years your back in the same boat you started in!
Yes, this is the same as it has been. With one exception, no one handed me $8000.00 for a home purchase. :-?
so war hawk ... how much would a person be expected to put as a down payment on a home on average?

8K? 10K? 15K? its in that range i know for a fact.

all im saying is... that $8K is going to be gone in one single stroke of the pen.

no longevity and absolutely no return on your "investment"

all this is going to do is give a bunch of people who cant afford a down payment the opportunity to make a down payment on a home they cant afford anyhow
This, actually is a good thing for me. I'm planning on buying a home in the next two years or so. I can see how it'll mislead people to thinking they can purchases houses they can't afford. But 8,000 is still 8,000. Whether or not its gone in a flash, thats still 400 work hours, or 2 and a half months working 5 days a week for 8 hours.

[August]

This, actually is a good thing for me. I'm planning on buying a home in the next two years or so. I can see how it'll mislead people to thinking they can purchases houses they can't afford. But 8,000 is still 8,000. Whether or not its gone in a flash, thats still 400 work hours, or 2 and a half months working 5 days a week for 8 hours.

That $8K will come in handy for me as well when Rose and I go house shopping in a couple months.

[AVGWarhawk]

3. $8,000 toward the purchase of a new home! one problem... by the time you pay money down on a home, and get yourself a mortgage, and make payments for 25 - 30 years... after paying interest and other fees associated with home buying you just paid $350,000 for a home which listed for $125,000 anyway!!! That $8,000 sounds minuscule doesn't it? it also sounds familiar - didnt something similar get us into this fine economic mess to begin with ? ? YES! now... a lot of people who cant afford homes may be more likely to buy homes because they think with Obama's help they can finally afford their own home! trouble is... in 2 or 3 years your back in the same boat you started in!
Yes, this is the same as it has been. With one exception, no one handed me $8000.00 for a home purchase. :-?
so war hawk ... how much would a person be expected to put as a down payment on a home on average?

8K? 10K? 15K? its in that range i know for a fact.

all im saying is... that $8K is going to be gone in one single stroke of the pen.

no longevity and absolutely no return on your "investment"

all this is going to do is give a bunch of people who cant afford a down payment the opportunity to make a down payment on a home they cant afford anyhow
This, actually is a good thing for me. I'm planning on buying a home in the next two years or so. I can see how it'll mislead people to thinking they can purchases houses they can't afford. But 8,000 is still 8,000. Whether or not its gone in a flash, thats still 400 work hours, or 2 and a half months working 5 days a week for 8 hours.

Yes, it is a good deal and helps many American acquire the American dream. But, some lenders do this to potential home buyers....ask for all their income etc. Makes sense, need doe to make payments. However, the lender looks at gross income and usually in the form of past years tax returns. They do not look at usable income you take home monthly. So, based on this inflated figure and other odds and ends to qualify you they come up with a magic figure that is way out of line. As I stated a few posts back, home buyer A can afford $350,000.00 mortgage if...he does not eat, need cloths, pay utilities, car never needs repair. You get the idea. So, if and when you can enjoy this program, think ahead and think only of what you have in hand as actual paper to spend each month. Not your gross income, your actual take home pay should dictate the size of loan you can afford. Never count on money you do not have yet, ie. pay raise, bonus. If it is not already in your hands then you do not have it and may never have it. Looking at homes, ask the seller what the average utility bills are. Is there a stupid community association fee? Things like that that need to accounted for each month. In short, do not make yourself house poor, meaning all you have left over after paying the mortgage each month is enough to buy food, utilities paid. Nothing left over even for a movie and popcorn. That is no way to live. Remember also, the houses interest is tax deductable and is our only tax shelter left. This does pay off during tax season. I know I enjoy taking $15,000.00 interest off the top line at tax time. If the loan looks to stink the high heaven do not be affraid to say "NO go find me a better deal". Stay the hell away from credit cards!!!! I can not stress this enough. Once you are approved for a large house loan, credit card companies automatically start sending credit card offers. Rip them in two and toss in trash. Credit cards have become nothing but a scandal. They change your interest rates, time of payment and add service fees all the time. They usually do not tell you either. It is so easy to get in a hole and it is hell getting out. I know, been then and have made my hands bleed climbing out of that quick sand hole I created.

[AVGWarhawk]

This, actually is a good thing for me. I'm planning on buying a home in the next two years or so. I can see how it'll mislead people to thinking they can purchases houses they can't afford. But 8,000 is still 8,000. Whether or not its gone in a flash, thats still 400 work hours, or 2 and a half months working 5 days a week for 8 hours.

That $8K will come in handy for me as well when Rose and I go house shopping in a couple months.

I'm guessing this program is not in stone yet but something is coming around the bend. Heck, I have heard people who are in good standing with their mortgage wanting to let it go so to get in on this action. Let's take a look at this for a moment. If I'm not mistaken, these loans will be refinanced at what the house appraises for today. At present, these people are carrying a mortgage on a loan for a home that appraised much higher years ago. As I understand it, some of these foreclosures will be refinanced to what the house now appraises for today. This will obviously reduce the monthy mortgage because the loan is much smaller. In short, if the home was $100000.00 last year and you pay $250.00/month, let the home foreclose and get the new improved loan for the same house that is appraising for $50000.00 and make the payments $150.00/month. Sweet deal, no? Heck, everyone else is enjoying this so why not those that are in good standing? Screw it, everone elses credit report looks like a criminal record. What is another one? This is truly mind baggling and to be honest, I think Barry really has his hands full with this one. There is no easy answer. Each case will have to be looked at closely and scrutinized fully before any one individual is approved. We do not want repeat offenders getting loans they do not honor. I know one in particular I would not lend a dime to. She just does not pay you back, period!

[SteamWake]

The government needs to just stay the hell out of it if you ask me.

This...

After all there the ones that screwed it up in the first place. Now we look to the very people whom created this debacle to cure it.

It boggles the mind.

[AVGWarhawk]

Not to worry, we have Barney Frank:har: