GM Seeks Up to $16.6 Billion in New Aid, Plans 47,000 Job Cuts

[Zachstar]

Feb. 18 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. (http://www.ustreas.gov/initiatives/eesa/agreements/auto-reports/GMRestructuringPlan.pdf) asked the U.S. for as much as $16.6 billion in new loans, more than doubling the aid to date, and said it needs some of the cash next month to survive as it sheds brands and cuts 47,000 more jobs worldwide.

You have GOT to be kidding me I mean SERIOUSLY!!! You want a stimulus to reduce American jobs?

I figured they would be back with hands wide open but this seriously takes the cake.

Um GM.. A big HELL NO from this American!

[UnderseaLcpl]

What? You were expecting positive results from government intervention?

[Aramike]

Feb. 18 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. (http://www.ustreas.gov/initiatives/eesa/agreements/auto-reports/GMRestructuringPlan.pdf) asked the U.S. for as much as $16.6 billion in new loans, more than doubling the aid to date, and said it needs some of the cash next month to survive as it sheds brands and cuts 47,000 more jobs worldwide.

You have GOT to be kidding me I mean SERIOUSLY!!! You want a stimulus to reduce American jobs?

I figured they would be back with hands wide open but this seriously takes the cake.

Um GM.. A big HELL NO from this American!...and I thought you were a Democrat...

[Zachstar]

Undersea this is a case of "Fool me once Fool me twice"

I hate the big 3 they have done an insane amount of work shelving patents and destroying MPG improvement breakthroughs. However, With so many good paying jobs on the time I came around on the last bailout.

But no more. They cant speak two words without mentioning legacy costs and almost never say crap cars. Thankfully with most if not all these cuts being Union there will be ZERO support for a 2nd bailout and these companies will finally die.

They cant survive anyway. 2 Japanese auto companies are about to get out mainstream lines of cheap hybrids and even a fully electric. An electric that can 80 percent charge in half an hour!

[Skybird]

You want stimulus spend on a company in ruins that still does not change - and thus sink all the money in an economic grave? They build cars that do not sell globally, and they did like that for too long. Now they are a ruin - and you expect they could just continue like before, and degrade from ruins into ashes - and even spend tax-payed help packages for this crematorium?

And they pull others like Opel into the Abyss as well, alongside with them.

Even with this job-cut it is absolutely uncertain that they could be saved. There have been experts in economics with a much higher credibility than me :) who also have declared the US carmakers a dead body in the water in recent months.

This is not the fault of state intervention, Lance. It is also not the fault of the Democrats. And Obama is not the one to blame. Blame the disconnected managers of GM who dreamed bad dreams for too long. they made the policies and decidedabout the type of cars to build that ruined GM.

[U-84]

that suxs for those workers, and i feel for them , but seriously GM (particularly upper and corporate guys that this is aimed at) have been puttin out crap cars onto the market and they shouldn't have been investing their money and time to producing gas guzzling cars such as hummers for example. I think its ridiculous that they get to walk away with that much money. I hope i didn't offend anybody, but GM should have seen this coming. Like i said this is aimed at upper and corporate guys and gals

[UnderseaLcpl]

This is not the fault of state intervention, Lance. It is also not the fault of the Democrats. And Obama is not the one to blame. Blame the disconnected managers of GM who dreamed bad dreams for too long. they made the policies and decidedabout the type of cars to build that ruined GM.


You'll have to clarify that, Sky. I don't see how the bailouts were anything but the state's fault. I mean, the state legslated them.

I assume you mean that GM being broke and worthless is not the state's fault, and I agree with, you, mostly. There's always the issue of state-enforced union regulations, tariffs, taxes, and the like depleting GM's competitive ability.
No gaurantee they would have performed better without them, though.

Like a good Libertarian, I would rather just have seen the company die. Now we have a semi-nationalized automaking conglomerate that is bound to cost taxpayers vast sums of money and still make uncompetitive cars.
It'll be like Amtrak, but with cars this time.

[StarFox]

I say, let them go bankrupt. Its gonna cost more long term at this point to keep giving them money to stay afloat, then it would cost to use stimulus money to re-employ all GM's workers. They have been building bad expensive cars for 30 years, its their fault. And its all our fault for buying them (although I own a BMW myself)


I saw an ad the other day, the Esclade Hybrid. The ad said it gets better gas milage then a Mini Cooper S. HA, funny, maybe if you drive the Mini in 2nd gear all the time. My 86' BMW 535i gets 22-24 any given day, only cost me $1,000, is 23 years old, and preforms better then a new, $50,000 Esclade Hybrid.

to hell with the US Auto industry. Ford will survive, let the rest burn

[Rockstar]

Undersea this is a case of "Fool me once Fool me twice"

I hate the big 3 they have done an insane amount of work shelving patents and destroying MPG improvement breakthroughs. However, With so many good paying jobs on the time I came around on the last bailout.

But no more. They cant speak two words without mentioning legacy costs and almost never say crap cars. Thankfully with most if not all these cuts being Union there will be ZERO support for a 2nd bailout and these companies will finally die.

They cant survive anyway. 2 Japanese auto companies are about to get out mainstream lines of cheap hybrids and even a fully electric. An electric that can 80 percent charge in half an hour!

Earth to Zachstar what 'BIG 3' are you so mad at? Didn't you know Ford (NYSE 'F') has refused to take any TARP/bailout/stimulus/porkulus/whatever you call it monies. Look at the fine print in the news as it doesn't include FORD Motors when they speak of the 'auto industry'. God help them I say as they are trying to get through this as they ought to WITHOUT government intervention and or control. I really hope they do or either die trying before they accept anything from government.

[GoldenRivet]

i refuse to be lead by fear.

shut down, go bankrupt, fire as many as you like GM.

all i know is im so red hot about all of this i will never again do business with General Motors

[Kapt Z]

I say, let them go bankrupt. Its gonna cost more long term at this point to keep giving them money to stay afloat, then it would cost to use stimulus money to re-employ all GM's workers. They have been building bad expensive cars for 30 years, its their fault. And its all our fault for buying them (although I own a BMW myself)


I saw an ad the other day, the Esclade Hybrid. The ad said it gets better gas milage then a Mini Cooper S. HA, funny, maybe if you drive the Mini in 2nd gear all the time. My 86' BMW 535i gets 22-24 any given day, only cost me $1,000, is 23 years old, and preforms better then a new, $50,000 Esclade Hybrid.

to hell with the US Auto industry. Ford will survive, let the rest burn

Yes, much better idea to spend the money on retraining initiatives for the workers. Forget the company, it's toast.

I laughed at the Escalade/MINI commercial too. I used to get around 35mpg with my MINI and that was pushing her hard.

Sad for me to say this, but with the exception of the new Mustang, no American car design has excited me since the 50s-60s. I had an 72 Olds Cutlass(used) and a 87 Chevy Monte Carlo SS(used) and both were crap quality wise. Night and day compared to the Honda/Toyota/Subarus we've owned since.

[Zayphod]

[quote]Um GM.. A big HELL NO from this American!

Damn right.

Someone had the suggestion that if the government really wanted to stimulate the economy, they should do this instead:

Take those billions of dollars for the insurance/banks/car companies, and instead divide it equally among every LEGAL U.S. taxpayer (individuals only).

WE know how to stimulate an economy. Give us a few thousand dollars, and we'll do the rest. ;)

[Zachstar]

And the money would flow to china. Over 70 percent of it.

I do not agree that the people will make the right choice. Because its near impossible.

Where can you get an American made TV? (Converting monitors into TVs do not count as that requires working brain cells :P )

Where can you get American products that do not cost a fortune?

Wal Mart would win from such a package not the economy. Unless you are ready to learn Chinese

[August]

Actually i'd buy land with mine. Can't get more domestic than that!

[Platapus]

As Will Rogers once said "the good thing about buying land is that you know the government won't be printing any more of it" :yeah:

[SteamWake]

What? You were expecting positive results from government intervention?

This...

[Zayphod]

Actually i'd buy land with mine. Can't get more domestic than that!

I was going to try and quote this from memory, but this is better:

"Stocks may rise and fall. Utilities and transportation systems may collapse. People are no damn good. But they will always need land and they will pay through the nose to get it. Remember, my father said, 'land' "
- Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman), Superman the Movie

[August]

Actually i'd buy land with mine. Can't get more domestic than that!
I was going to try and quote this from memory, but this is better:

"Stocks may rise and fall. Utilities and transportation systems may collapse. People are no damn good. But they will always need land and they will pay through the nose to get it. Remember, my father said, 'land' "
- Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman), Superman the Movie

Can't argue with that! :up: