Ronald Reagan speaks out against Socialist Healthcare

[Sea Demon]

Very good link. We've been down this road before. Ronald Reagan argued against this disaster in waiting long ago. These ideas of the left are ruinous and downright foolish. Totally incompatible with a free nation. Reagan breaks it down well in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs&NR=1

[SteamWake]

Meh save your breath.

They held Regan in the same regard as Bush... Stupid and un-informed.

Its amazing how many of Regan's principals still hold relevance in contemporary times.

[rubenandthejets]

Have either of you seen anything by Michael Moore?

[Morts]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: What a load of c***

[Digital_Trucker]

Have either of you seen anything by Michael Moore?

Michael Moore the economist?:har:

[AntEater]

Funny is that during the time he held that speech, all of the free world except the US of A had (and still has) a "socialist healthcare" system.
Such totalitarian countries as West Germany or France or something.
Even Britain still has the NHS.

[SUBMAN1]

Have either of you seen anything by Michael Moore?
Yes, and when his Socialized medicine was proven wrong, such as it pointed out that he was taken to not only the best hospitals in Canada (most are really run down compared to ours, and even my simple things like diapers for my sister in laws baby - she had to provide for example herself - they gave her only 1!) and he went to the only hospital with an upper class wing for the elites of Cuba, not the real cockroach filled hospitals that really exist, he still said Socialized medicine is the best and buried his head in the sand.

I see healthcare from both sides of the border - Canadian and the US and the Canadian side plain sucks and is understaffed, and run down dumps. Did i mention it taxes the hell out of them too? My father in law paid approximately 60% of his wage to taxes over there. Here, we complain if we get into the mid to upper 20's.


Socialized healthcare ultimately ends up to a case where you can't even find enough doctors to take care of the people. My mother-in-law in Canada recently died of cancer and in the US, I'm beginning to think she would have survived. One damn doctor to service a number of patients that would make your eyeballs pop out of you head. He had enough time for maybe 5 minutes with a patient. Nice system you guys got up there.

My stop uncle can hardly walk, and even though it is considered critical that he have the surgery, he has to wait 3 years for surgery unless he pays for it himself. This is another case of lack of resources.

5 months sometimes to see a Primary Care doctor? Crap, your cold is over by that time. I have an endless list.

-S

[nikimcbee]

Have either of you seen anything by Michael Moore?
Yes, and when his Socialized medicine was proven wrong, such as it pointed out that he was taken to not only the best hospitals in Canada (most are really run down compared to ours, and even my simple things like diapers for my sister in laws baby - she had to provide for example herself - they gave her only 1!) and he went to the only hospital with an upper class wing for the elites of Cuba, not the real cockroach filled hospitals that really exist, he still said Socialized medicine is the best and buried his head in the sand.

I see healthcare from both sides of the border - Canadian and the US and the Canadian side plain sucks and is understaffed, and run down dumps. Did i mention it taxes the hell out of them too? My father in law paid approximately 60% of his wage to taxes over there. Here, we complain if we get into the mid to upper 20's.


Socialized healthcare ultimately ends up to a case where you can't even find enough doctors to take care of the people. My mother-in-law in Canada recently died of cancer and in the US, I'm beginning to think she would have survived. One damn doctor to service a number of patients that would make your eyeballs pop out of you head. He had enough time for maybe 5 minutes with a patient. Nice system you guys got up there.

My stop uncle can hardly walk, and even though it is considered critical that he have the surgery, he has to wait 3 years for surgery unless he pays for it himself. This is another case of lack of resources.

5 months sometimes to see a Primary Care doctor? Crap, your cold is over by that time. I have an endless list.

-S

Right on!
When I had my laser eye surgery last year, from diagnosis to surgery, my wait time???? 2 days:yeah: And this is at a very busy eye clinic.

The only thing that pisses me off, if you don't have insurance, insulin (top of the line though ) is damn near $100/ a bottle. But I still take my quality over quantity anyday.:up:

[SteamWake]

Micheal Moore :yeah:

No but I did stay at a holiday inn :cool:

Seen "American Carol" ?

[AntEater]

Sorry, but I don't see anything socialist in a mandatory public healthcare system.
The only problem seems to be that the US version of it is ill concieved and inefficient.
I mean 90% of all democracies on this planet have such a system.
Ranging from traditionally left wingies like sweden to middle grounders like Germany to even Britain.
This logic would be like "my car is broken, so that means all cars do not work"

[OneToughHerring]

Btw, hows Walter Reed these days, still rat-infested...?

[Kapt Z]

Oh Ronnie- there you go again...!:salute:

Gotta miss the Gipper! Never voted for him, but still miss him.

[SteamWake]

Speaking of Mr. Moore

He is looking for help :yeah:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

I have a few suggestions for him. :rotfl:

[Tribesman]

Interesting , since universal health care is best measured in how it cares for the most vulnerable in society then infant mortality should be a good measure .
So if you look at one of those "socialist" examples like Sweden then it should get a worse result than the inspired American system . yet somehow that doesn't work as their levels of dead babies runs at half of what Americas does .
But hey maybe Sweden is a bad comparison , perhaps somewhere with " the real cockroach filled hospitals that really exist" would give Reagans dream a better chance .....oh dear even the cockroach filled Cuban hospitals beat America when it comes to little babies actually living .
Think of the little babies , consign the gipper back to the bin of B-movies where he belongs .

[Aramike]

Interesting , since universal health care is best measured in how it cares for the most vulnerable in society then infant mortality should be a good measure .
So if you look at one of those "socialist" examples like Sweden then it should get a worse result than the inspired American system . yet somehow that doesn't work as their levels of dead babies runs at half of what Americas does .
But hey maybe Sweden is a bad comparison , perhaps somewhere with " the real cockroach filled hospitals that really exist" would give Reagans dream a better chance .....oh dear even the cockroach filled Cuban hospitals beat America when it comes to little babies actually living .
Think of the little babies , consign the gipper back to the bin of B-movies where he belongs .This is the kind of half-truth crap Michael Moore has a trademark on. It's a fallacy to compare the US infant mortality rate to other nations:

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/060924/2healy.htm

From the above story:
First, it's shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with reports from other countries. The United States counts all births as live if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size. This includes what many other countries report as stillbirths. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) to count as a live birth; in other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless. And some countries don't reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth. Thus, the United States is sure to report higher infant mortality rates. For this very reason, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country.

[Tribesman]

Ah so infant mortality isn't a measure because you don't like the results , fair enough perhaps you have a point .
So if infant mortality is no good then how about mortality itself ?
Does a "socialist" country like Sweden with its cradle to grave universal healthcare have a longer life expectancy than free market America ?
:hmmm: perhaps they count people as dead differently too .

[August]

Ah so infant mortality isn't a measure because you don't like the results , fair enough perhaps you have a point .
So if infant mortality is no good then how about mortality itself ?
Does a "socialist" country like Sweden with its cradle to grave universal healthcare have a longer life expectancy than free market America ?
:hmmm: perhaps they count people as dead differently too .

On the other hand Swedens suicide rate is significantly higher than that of the United States so apparently Sweden isn't the acme of health care, at least in the mental health area, that you claim it is.

[Tribesman]

Ah of course , mental health , them suiciders must be crazy . So you beat Sweden by a massive proportion of 2/100,000
Then again murderers are crazy too , so how does your murder rate compare ?
Ooops looks like you fail even worse on the mental health issue too :yep:

[rubenandthejets]

You mean Michael Moore isn't telling the whole truth?

Oh no!

Thanks for that. I'll be sure to watch FOX News and Crossfire from now on to get an unbiased view of the world.

[Aramike]

Ah so infant mortality isn't a measure because you don't like the results , fair enough perhaps you have a point .
So if infant mortality is no good then how about mortality itself ?
Does a "socialist" country like Sweden with its cradle to grave universal healthcare have a longer life expectancy than free market America ?
:hmmm: perhaps they count people as dead differently too .Yeah, you're right. Every society on Earth is *exactly* the same and there are no cultural differences that would effect mortality rates. :rolleyes:

I mean, it's not like countries such as the United States have populations over 30 times that of Sweden and are far more ethinically diverse... But why bother with such trivialities when you already found the singular statistic to support your haphazard argument?

Sure, there's probably no way that such larger nations, with larger populations and economies, AND world influence, would face different circumstances than a nation such as Sweden... And it seems impossible that those circumstances would result in different health care needs and mortality rates...

Oh, and we know for a fact that it's all measured using the same stick... :doh:

PS: I'm not discounting Infant Mortality Rates because I don't like the results, as you claim. I was very specific in that I'm discounting them due to the numbers coming from different standards. Funny how you ignored that very CLEAR assertion. But, alas, I suppose it does your argument no good to interject some intellectual honesty into it.

[Aramike]

You mean Michael Moore isn't telling the whole truth?

Oh no!

Thanks for that. I'll be sure to watch FOX News and Crossfire from now on to get an unbiased view of the world.*Sigh* The world will never be rid of people who justify the deceitful behaviors of one entity by citing their perceived deceitful behaviors of another...

Here's a novel idea: how about taking every bit of information that you're interested in and analyze and research its veracity for yourself?

[August]

Ah of course , mental health , them suiciders must be crazy . So you beat Sweden by a massive proportion of 2/100,000
Then again murderers are crazy too , so how does your murder rate compare ?
Ooops looks like you fail even worse on the mental health issue too :yep:


Where do you get the idea that all murderers are crazy? And yes 2/100k is a fair number in a population of 300 million.

[longam]

In the 60's they had some dim views about allot of things.

http://wellmedicated.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/22.jpg

[clive bradbury]

This 'suicide rate' argument is stupid as an an indicator of the viablity of different health services.

If 2 per 100,000 is significant, then please explain why the male suicide rate in the UK is 4 per 100,000 less than the USA. To use this argument then the US should immediately change to a 'socialist' system like the NHS.

Surely the number of suicides reflects many more factors than the standard of health care - I don't think it can be used to provide an accurate comparison.

Although our taxes pay for the NHS, of course, our current tax rate for 'average' incomes is 22%, so it would be within a US budget - no 60% stoppage rates would be required.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about free healthcare. First of all, it is a misnomer anyway , as many NHS services such as prescriptions have to be paid for, and NHS dental care is a reduced rate, rather than free. My personal experience of the NHS has been overwhelmingly positive. I could afford private care, but have found NHS provision to be sufficient for my needs. Waiting lists can be a problem, though, especially if your condition is not life-threatening.

I think it comes down to a more fundamental philosophical issue in many ways - what is the responsiblity of a state's government to its people? I think most would agree that those responsiblities would include protecting its citizens from harm generally - that is surely the reasons that police and armed forces exist. It doesn't seem too illogical to me that proctecting citizens from the harm caused by ill health should probably be a duty of the elected government, too.

[Kapt Z]

In the 60's they had some dim views about allot of things.

http://wellmedicated.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/22.jpg

Truly another era......"cough, cough, hack, wheeze...."

[Aramike]

In the 60's they had some dim views about allot of things.

http://wellmedicated.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/22.jpgI bet Obama wouldn't mind recieving one of those cartons as a gift... :arrgh!:

[August]

This 'suicide rate' argument is stupid as an an indicator of the viablity of different health services.

No more stupid than infant mortality rates calculated by dissimilar methods.

[Kongo Otto]

Sorry, but I don't see anything socialist in a mandatory public healthcare system.
The only problem seems to be that the US version of it is ill concieved and inefficient.
I mean 90% of all democracies on this planet have such a system.
Ranging from traditionally left wingies like sweden to middle grounders like Germany to even Britain.
This logic would be like "my car is broken, so that means all cars do not work"

Hey my Friend, you really didnt know that Otto von Bismarck was a hardcore Socialist, giving Germany a Social Security System back in 1883. :haha::har:
He was a Commie,it must be true, they said it on Fox News.
:haha::har:
Of corse everything is only good when it comes from the USA, all other Nations on this Planet are so stupid, or they are Socialist,or even worse they are Commies.
At next they will say the have the best School System from this Planet.:haha::har:

[Stealth Hunter]

Zombie Reagan '12:woot: