VIEW: Type IXCs are a death trap in late 42, early 43.

[RoaldLarsen]

I run with 100% realism setting and play DiD. With Type IXs, it seems D is VERY DEAD.

I've started 4 careers in IXC and IXC/40 boats. (Call them 'L', 'M', 'N' and 'W'. Three have been sunk (L, M and W). All three were sunk by aircraft. Two of these (M and W) were on their first patrol. These two were sunk on their second and first air attack, respectively. The other victim (L) was on its fifth patrol and had undergone 22 air attacks on its final patrol, as well as five other aircraft sightings that did not result in an attack. The surviving boat (N) was severely damaged by aircraft on its most recent patrol and just barely managed to limp back to port. M was sunk in late '42, L and W in March '43, and N was damaged in late February '43.

I'm not careless with my IX boats. I had two careers in IXBs with a total of 20 war patrols. Both Kaleuns retired unscathed. (One was my top ace with nearly 400kT sunk). My IXCs are spending 80%-90% of the time submerged. They come up only at night to recharge batteries and load externally stored torpedoes. In calm to moderate seas they run with decks awash to reduce dive time. The watch crews are rotated regularly to ensure that they are alert. They all have radar warning detectors and the most up-to-date batteries. When submerged I generally run at an average of 3 knots to conserve battery life and reduce recharging time.

Once the allies expand their air coverage, the slower dive times and longer battery recharge times seem to make type IXs more vulnerable to air attack than type VIIs. Their longer patrol routes expose them to more days subject to air patrols. (The 27 encounters that L had with aircraft on its last patrol all occurred before the boat even reached its designated patrol area off the Bahamas.)

Do any experienced Type IX Kaleuns have any suggestions about how to survive in a Type IX during the first half of '43? (I'm not interested in exploits like: "run at TC 1024 to reduce detection by aircraft.") When schnorkels become available, do they help?

[A Very Super Market]

Schnorkels are still pretty obvious, though they do extend your time under considerably, hydrophones don't go up to the air, and using them in broad daylight is basically sending out a flare for flyers, only blind. You can still survive, with a good RADAR detector, and quick reflexes, but don't expect it.

[Annatar]

I thought air attacks were pretty much turned off if you went above 256?
What TC is the best compromise between getting some good encounters with aircraft but without being at such a low compression that it takes days to finish a patrol?

[Kapt Z]

I thought air attacks were pretty much turned off if you went above 256?
What TC is the best compromise between getting some good encounters with aircraft but without being at such a low compression that it takes days to finish a patrol?

It doesn't take you days to finish a patrol?????:salute:

Wow. With work and family it normally takes me a week!:damn:

[HW3]

I have survived into late 44 with a IXD-2 by charging batteries 4 times a day. This reduces the time required to charge to about 1 hour at a time. This seems to reduce my chances of being detected alot. It also means that if I am detected and have to dive, I still have enough battery power left to stay under awhile.

[Keelbuster]

The beauty of the schnorkel is that you are already at PD, so if you detect radar signals, it's no big deal to get down to a safe 50m.

[RoaldLarsen]

I have survived into late 44 with a IXD-2 by charging batteries 4 times a day. This reduces the time required to charge to about 1 hour at a time. This seems to reduce my chances of being detected alot. It also means that if I am detected and have to dive, I still have enough battery power left to stay under awhile.Thanks.

I presume that at least one of the four times is during daylight hours.

I wonder why this approach reduces the chance of being detected. You are still surfaced 4 hours out of every 24, but now at least one of those hours is during daylight. I hadn't tried this approach because it seemed to me to increase the chance of being spotted.

Does anybody know if the game engine works in such a way that being surfaced for one two hour recharge makes you more likely to be spotted by aircraft than being surfaced for two separate one hour recharges?

[RoaldLarsen]

I thought air attacks were pretty much turned off if you went above 256?
That's why I never run on the surface with a TC greater than 32 in areas of enemy air operations.
What TC is the best compromise between getting some good encounters with aircraft but without being at such a low compression that it takes days to finish a patrol?Depends mostly on the length (distance) of your patrol, and the proportion of time surfaced, I suppose. Assume an average speed of 11 knots surfaced, and 3 knots submerged, and 4 hours surfaced out of 24. That gives you about 190 km covered each day. An average air gap patrol for a Type VIIC is about 4,250km each way and another 1500km on station: about 10,000km in total. That's more than 50 days. If you want to complete this in less than one day of real time you will need to run an average TC of 64 or more. When you include time for low TC activities such as engagements, getting out of port, etc. you may need to average TC 128 for everything else, if you want to keep a patrol down to less than a day. You'll miss a number of aircraft encounters this way.

What I do is a bit different. Both my time surfaced and the TC I run at depend on whether I am in an area with enemy air coverage. In an area with enemy air coverage, I spend at least 20 hours submerged. I never run on the surface with a TC greater than 32, but I spend 12 hours of my submerged time running at TC 1024. Most of the rest of the sumerged time is at TC 32. This approach doesn't avoid many aircraft encounters, but does reduce the number of hydrophone contacts I make. I consider this a good outcome because there seems to be too many merchant ships in the game. This approach means a game day takes a little less than half an hour real time.

In an area with no enemy air coverage, I spend most of my time on the surface. I dive for periodic hydrophone checks. If I am just travelling to or from a patol area, my surfaced travel is at TC 1024. In a patrol area, I don't exceed TC 32.

[Penelope_Grey]

The best advice really I can offer is, try to cruise at at least 9 knots. Also, it pays to have a maxed out flakcrew because chances are you are going to need them

the big trick... use the 16km atmosphere. (if you aren't)

I think really that sometimes with the IX, depending on the plane, it pays to stay up on the surface, run at flank speed, and blast away at the incoming plane till it flies over you, then crash dive!

Some planes are on you before you can get under.

[BasilY]

I run with 100% realism setting and play DiD. With Type IXs, it seems D is VERY DEAD.

I've started 4 careers in IXC and IXC/40 boats. (Call them 'L', 'M', 'N' and 'W'. Three have been sunk (L, M and W). All three were sunk by aircraft. Two of these (M and W) were on their first patrol. These two were sunk on their second and first air attack, respectively. The other victim (L) was on its fifth patrol and had undergone 22 air attacks on its final patrol, as well as five other aircraft sightings that did not result in an attack. The surviving boat (N) was severely damaged by aircraft on its most recent patrol and just barely managed to limp back to port. M was sunk in late '42, L and W in March '43, and N was damaged in late February '43.

I'm not careless with my IX boats. I had two careers in IXBs with a total of 20 war patrols. Both Kaleuns retired unscathed. (One was my top ace with nearly 400kT sunk). My IXCs are spending 80%-90% of the time submerged. They come up only at night to recharge batteries and load externally stored torpedoes. In calm to moderate seas they run with decks awash to reduce dive time. The watch crews are rotated regularly to ensure that they are alert. They all have radar warning detectors and the most up-to-date batteries. When submerged I generally run at an average of 3 knots to conserve battery life and reduce recharging time.

Once the allies expand their air coverage, the slower dive times and longer battery recharge times seem to make type IXs more vulnerable to air attack than type VIIs. Their longer patrol routes expose them to more days subject to air patrols. (The 27 encounters that L had with aircraft on its last patrol all occurred before the boat even reached its designated patrol area off the Bahamas.)

Do any experienced Type IX Kaleuns have any suggestions about how to survive in a Type IX during the first half of '43? (I'm not interested in exploits like: "run at TC 1024 to reduce detection by aircraft.") When schnorkels become available, do they help?


I consider myself pretty good with IXC, my biggest enemy is the Hedgehog (usually after a convoy attack), not airplanes. I spend just enough time on the surface to recharge, not a second more. the snorkel is useful only to recharge in bad weather. Having your snorkel out in good visibility is a invitation to air attacks.

Don't forget to get radar warning ASAP.

[RoaldLarsen]

I consider myself pretty good with IXC, my biggest enemy is the Hedgehog (usually after a convoy attack), not airplanes.YMMV, I guess. I haven't been sunk by a surface vessel outside of the Med since August 1940.
I spend just enough time on the surface to recharge, not a second more.Ditto. I'm now wondering about splitting recharging into two or more sessions.
the snorkel is useful only to recharge in bad weather. Having your snorkel out in good visibility is a invitation to air attacks.But in bad enough weather, the planes won't even be flying. In real life, using the snorkel in bad weather was very trying for the crew. Seems like the snorkel is of limited value. (And when I get it, I won't be running at more than 6 knots with snorkel raised. It would break off if you went faster. An added bonus is that this should make it harder to be detected.)
Don't forget to get radar warning ASAP.Always. However, it seems to help me avoid being bombed only about 1 time in 8.

[RoaldLarsen]

The best advice really I can offer is, try to cruise at at least 9 knots.
Thanks, Penelope. I'm already doing that almost all the time.

the big trick... use the 16km atmosphere. (if you aren't)
I think I may need a new rig to run that.

Also, it pays to have a maxed out flakcrew because chances are you are going to need them...

I think really that sometimes with the IX, depending on the plane, it pays to stay up on the surface, run at flank speed, and blast away at the incoming plane till it flies over you, then crash dive!Perhaps. A problem is that it takes a certain amount of time to identify the plane. This time delays your crash dive. So, if it is the wrong type of plane, you are too late. I think you need to make it an all or nothing policy. Is there really enough time to crash dive after the first pass and be down before the second pass?

I had one skipper who used to stay up and fight it out with planes. After losing a few flak crews and taking severe damage, he changed his mind.

Some planes are on you before you can get under. Yeah. Those account for most of my fatalities.

[Penelope_Grey]

Well you can tell by the engine noise, if the engine noise is high pitched its fast and its going to be on you before you can Crashdive..... If the engine noise is low pitched then you have a chance to get under... low pitched noise = something big with plenty of bombs.

The beauty about the 16k atmosphere is you get more time to respond.... if you run at the standard 8 then you only get the full 8km visibility if the weather is perfect.

So say the conditions are Clouds, partial. Wind, 2m/s. Rain, none. Visibility, unlimited. With the 8km you will see for just under 8km

with the 16k mod those condition will give your watch crew visibility to well over 15km away. Which makes a big difference....

Lets say the conditions are clouds, partial. Wind, 2 m/s. Rain, none. Visibility, moderate.

You are running 8k... the farthest with that your crew will be able to see is about 5km... which means the plane will be on top of you before you can blink.

Now what I suggested earlier... Id on't mean stay up till the plane is shot down. I mean, man your flak guns, get them all firing at medium range targeting any plane... the plane will dive on you, as its diving on you, you are launching up a hail of bullets at it, that will make its accuracy wobble a little bit... once it flies over you, it then has to fly off turn round and come back... this is your chance! Crashdive here! Before you take any more damage.

IX's are slow Crashdivers... but... with the 16k mod, they might just about get under in time. At least... thats my experiences both from gameplay and testing.

[Tronics]

Once allied air cover becomes a problem I run full or flank diesels on the surface when I'm doing battery charging runs so that when the plane does appear, and it will if your cruising across the Biscay, I have a fairly decent chance at crash diving and getting deep enough so that the bombs do minimal damage.

As for the radar detectors, I don't put much stock in those, and I prefer to do batter charge runs during the extremely early morning hours or late at night so my watch crew gets the benefit of some twilight to see incoming enemy planes as soon as the radar detector picks them up, so that I can get a fast start on a crash dive.

[RoaldLarsen]

Well you can tell by the engine noise, if the engine noise is high pitched its fast and its going to be on you before you can Crashdive..... If the engine noise is low pitched then you have a chance to get under... low pitched noise = something big with plenty of bombs.
Good tip, thanks.

The beauty about the 16k atmosphere is you get more time to respond.... if you run at the standard 8 then you only get the full 8km visibility if the weather is perfect.

So say the conditions are Clouds, partial. Wind, 2m/s. Rain, none. Visibility, unlimited. With the 8km you will see for just under 8km

with the 16k mod those condition will give your watch crew visibility to well over 15km away. Which makes a big difference....

Lets say the conditions are clouds, partial. Wind, 2 m/s. Rain, none. Visibility, moderate.

You are running 8k... the farthest with that your crew will be able to see is about 5km... which means the plane will be on top of you before you can blink.Yeah, I understand the advantage of the 16k mod. It's a pity that it takes a mod to allow your crew to react as they might have done IRL.

For me the question is whether my computer can handle the 16k mod. I think I have the processor and RAM (P4 2.8GHz, 3GB), but my graphics card is a lowly ATI RADEON 9600 with only 128MB. Anbyody know whether this can handle the 16k atmosphere mod?

Now what I suggested earlier... Id on't mean stay up till the plane is shot down. I mean, man your flak guns, get them all firing at medium range targeting any plane... the plane will dive on you, as its diving on you, you are launching up a hail of bullets at it, that will make its accuracy wobble a little bit... once it flies over you, it then has to fly off turn round and come back... this is your chance! Crashdive here! Before you take any more damage.

IX's are slow Crashdivers... but... with the 16k mod, they might just about get under in time. At least... thats my experiences both from gameplay and testing.Understood. I was wondering whether there was sufficent time to complete a crash dive between passes. From your answer I take it there is.

[Faamecanic]

For me the question is whether my computer can handle the 16k mod. I think I have the processor and RAM (P4 2.8GHz, 3GB), but my graphics card is a lowly ATI RADEON 9600 with only 128MB. Anbyody know whether this can handle the 16k atmosphere mod?


I would say give it a try. Its easy to enable/disable the mod via JSGME... just a click of a button (while at port mind you).

I was running it with a 3.0 ghz, 2GB RAM...but I did have a ATI 9800... and I would have to say the ATI 9800 looked better than my current rig (waves and water looked more realistic) with 2X 8800 GTS's 564mb

[Penelope_Grey]

Yes there is time between passes.

As for the graphics card issue, somebody better than I must answer that... all I know is my lappy has a nVidia 512 in it and that copes great.

[KeptinCranky]

For your graphics answer, yes, do it! only don;t enable the enhanced damage effects and you might have to lower your antialiasing a bit, otherwise it will run fine

I ran the game with the 16km mod during GWX 2.1 testing on a 1ghz amd 1gb mem and ati9800 that worked fine, after the 20 minutes or so loading....:D

[RoaldLarsen]

Thx, KC.

[harzfeld]

I'm curious why you guys get IXC over IXB? More fuel? or you have too much renown that you want to use up? In early war, I usually get IXB after VIIB, then I get VIIC whenever I like until VIIC/41 comes out which is a must have. I prefer IXB's less time diving & stern deckgun to shoot at small vessels over type 3 conning tower & improved but ineffective anti-aircraft guns for IXC which doesn't come out until much later. That was got myself disappointed for switching to IXC over IXB. I rarely or never have my crew manned anti-aircraft guns whenever hostile planes come in, I just dive cuz there's no point in combating against flying tanks unless I can use my deck gun. At U-boat website, it says the range for IXB is 12000 while IXC is 13450, not much differences, and there are milkcows I can use if need. Both IXB and IXC have same amount of torpedoes they can carry. IXB becomes available in end of 1939, compare that to July 1941 for IXC. Also not getting me a IXC saves me a lot of renown for homing torpedoes to annoy destroyers. I'd prefer IXD2 to IXC, but IXB is a winner in IX class overall for me.

[USAMP1980]

If you run with snorkel up and desiel engines running.. Also have both periscopes up.. one at 0, the other at 180. In daylight "aircraft spotted!" - Press D or C to dive and Ctrl Page Down (and respectively for Observation persicope) to auto-lower your scope(s). I have always managed to duck under before the bombs hit.
The snorkel makes a nice signiature for the Allied RADAR. :timeout:

The best option is to look at the map provided with the game and go to the Atlantic between Britian and North America. You can find some nice spots that are far from any air coverage and along large convoy routes. They also often have a depth of over 1000 meters. If you have to, dive near crush depth where they can't find you. Also keep in mind that cold water (and air) is denser, thus harder for anything to penetrate (hydrophone, SONAR, etc). Pick a nice ice-cold spot generally around Greenland and Iceland. You will have plenty of large convoys to chew up.:salute:

When need-be, run on the surface at night to the artic and grab your external torpedoes... just to return to your sweet spots.
I would not use your RADAR unless in a blinding storm. They have RADAR detectors too! :hmmm:

If you are running GWX3.0 , there are resupply ships and Milchecows that visit said area time to time. You could just stay out there. When you dock at a resupply ship.. it takes you back to the Officer's Office, but everything is disabled. You can only just go out on another patrol (refitted, resupplied, refueled). I have done this, as opposed to spending alot of time and fuel traveling to and from L'Orient. (A hazardous port). Also in GWX is Wolfpacks... you can sometimes find a pair of U-boats to join, and form an "Atlantic Wall".
Good Luck! :up:

[RoaldLarsen]

I'm curious why you guys get IXC over IXB? More fuel? or you have too much renown that you want to use up? In early war, I usually get IXB after VIIB, then I get VIIC whenever I like until VIIC/41 comes out which is a must have. I prefer IXB's less time diving & stern deckgun to shoot at small vessels over type 3 conning tower & improved but ineffective anti-aircraft guns for IXC which doesn't come out until much later. That was got myself disappointed for switching to IXC over IXB. I rarely or never have my crew manned anti-aircraft guns whenever hostile planes come in, I just dive cuz there's no point in combating against flying tanks unless I can use my deck gun. At U-boat website, it says the range for IXB is 12000 while IXC is 13450, not much differences, and there are milkcows I can use if need. Both IXB and IXC have same amount of torpedoes they can carry. IXB becomes available in end of 1939, compare that to July 1941 for IXC. Also not getting me a IXC saves me a lot of renown for homing torpedoes to annoy destroyers. I'd prefer IXD2 to IXC, but IXB is a winner in IX class overall for me.
I agree that the type IXB has its attractions. My most successful career was in a IXB. Historically, the IXBs had the most tonnage sunk per boat.

But....

More simulation, less arcade game!

There were only 14 IXBs produced, compared to 54 IXCs and 87 IXC/40s.

I am running a series of careers in each flotilla from the beginning of the war to the end. I use SH3 Commmander's Realistic Career Length function. When one career ends, the next begins. When I begin a career I use a boat type and number that historically began its career at that time in that flotilla.

After 1942 there were only 20 war patrols by type IXBs, and 5 resulted in the loss of the boat.

[RoaldLarsen]

If you run with snorkel up and desiel engines running.. Also have both periscopes up.. one at 0, the other at 180. In daylight "aircraft spotted!" - Press D or C to dive and Ctrl Page Down (and respectively for Observation persicope) to auto-lower your scope(s). I have always managed to duck under before the bombs hit.
The snorkel makes a nice signiature for the Allied RADAR. :timeout:
Good advice about the pericopes. Don't to forget to Press X to lower your snorkel. And I wouldn't run at more than 6 knots until the snorkel is down, because IRL the snorkel would break at higher speeds.
The best option is to look at the map provided with the game and go to the Atlantic between Britian and North America. You can find some nice spots that are far from any air coverage and along large convoy routes. They also often have a depth of over 1000 meters. If you have to, dive near crush depth where they can't find you.
For me, the "best option" is to be more realistic. The type IX's were not often deployed to the air gap, except for their maiden patrol coming out from Germany to the French bases. The IX boats were most commonly employed along the North and South American coasts and off Africa. That's where mine go.
Also keep in mind that cold water (and air) is denser, thus harder for anything to penetrate (hydrophone, SONAR, etc). Pick a nice ice-cold spot generally around Greenland and Iceland. You will have plenty of large convoys to chew up.:salute:

When need-be, run on the surface at night to the artic and grab your external torpedoes... just to return to your sweet spots.
Sadly, I don't think the game models such temperature effects.
I would not use your RADAR unless in a blinding storm. They have RADAR detectors too! :hmmm:
Agreed! And then only when hydrophones have determined there are no warships nearby.
If you are running GWX3.0 , there are resupply ships and Milchecows that visit said area time to time. You could just stay out there. When you dock at a resupply ship.. it takes you back to the Officer's Office, but everything is disabled. You can only just go out on another patrol (refitted, resupplied, refueled). I have done this, as opposed to spending alot of time and fuel traveling to and from L'Orient. (A hazardous port). Also in GWX is Wolfpacks... you can sometimes find a pair of U-boats to join, and form an "Atlantic Wall".
Good Luck! :up:
Wasn't there a thread about this recently? I don't think there is much evidence that u-boats made repeated trips to a milchcow on a single patrol. Once outbound and once returning was probably the max.

Unless GWX has disabled this, when you dock at a resupply ship some of the Office options are still available: Manage Crew (filing Cabinet in top left corner) and Game Options. What you can't do is modify your boat or your torpedo load out.

More simulation, less arcade game!

[tomfon]

I'm curious why you guys get IXC over IXB? More fuel? or you have too much renown that you want to use up? In early war, I usually get IXB after VIIB, then I get VIIC whenever I like until VIIC/41 comes out which is a must have. I prefer IXB's less time diving & stern deckgun to shoot at small vessels over type 3 conning tower & improved but ineffective anti-aircraft guns for IXC which doesn't come out until much later. That was got myself disappointed for switching to IXC over IXB. I rarely or never have my crew manned anti-aircraft guns whenever hostile planes come in, I just dive cuz there's no point in combating against flying tanks unless I can use my deck gun. At U-boat website, it says the range for IXB is 12000 while IXC is 13450, not much differences, and there are milkcows I can use if need. Both IXB and IXC have same amount of torpedoes they can carry. IXB becomes available in end of 1939, compare that to July 1941 for IXC. Also not getting me a IXC saves me a lot of renown for homing torpedoes to annoy destroyers. I'd prefer IXD2 to IXC, but IXB is a winner in IX class overall for me.


More simulation, less arcade game.

There were only 14 IXBs produced, compared to 54 IXCs and 87 IXC/40s.

I am running a series of careers in each flotilla from the beginning of the war to the end. I use SH3 Commmander's Realistic Career Length function. When one career ends, the next begins. When I begin a career I use a boat type and number that historically began its career at that time in that flotilla.


I think hanzfeld focuses on the technical part and IMHO he has a point.
Also the fact that more IXC's were built doesn't necessarily mean that choosing a IXC adds in the immersion thing.

[RoaldLarsen]

I'm curious why you guys get IXC over IXB? More fuel? or you have too much renown that you want to use up? In early war, I usually get IXB after VIIB, then I get VIIC whenever I like until VIIC/41 comes out which is a must have. I prefer IXB's less time diving & stern deckgun to shoot at small vessels over type 3 conning tower & improved but ineffective anti-aircraft guns for IXC which doesn't come out until much later. That was got myself disappointed for switching to IXC over IXB. I rarely or never have my crew manned anti-aircraft guns whenever hostile planes come in, I just dive cuz there's no point in combating against flying tanks unless I can use my deck gun. At U-boat website, it says the range for IXB is 12000 while IXC is 13450, not much differences, and there are milkcows I can use if need. Both IXB and IXC have same amount of torpedoes they can carry. IXB becomes available in end of 1939, compare that to July 1941 for IXC. Also not getting me a IXC saves me a lot of renown for homing torpedoes to annoy destroyers. I'd prefer IXD2 to IXC, but IXB is a winner in IX class overall for me.


I think hanzfeld focuses on the technical part and IMHO he has a point.
Also the fact that more IXC's were built doesn't necessarily mean that choosing a IXC adds in the immersion thing.What increases the "immersion thing" varies between players, IMO. I agree with almost everything that Harzfeld says. The IXB, in its time, is a wonderful killer. If what you want out of the game is to run multiple careers from '39 or '40, and want max tonnage, keep picking the IXB.

Harzfeld asked why people were choosing the IXC over the IXB. I gave my reasons. It comes down to having different goals for the game.

I personally do not think it increases immersion for me to be running IXBs in 1943 or later, because it almost never happened IRL. To me immersion is getting close to reality - to the limits allowed by the game. I find it even less immersive using homing torpedoes in a IXB (AFAICT it was never done). Nor do I see much point in running repeated patrols in the air gap, while resupplying from Milk Cows multiple times. It wasn't what IX boats were about.

This isn't a criticism of those who prefer to do things differently. We all have our own individual goals for the game.

[USAMP1980]

If you run with snorkel up and desiel engines running.. Also have both periscopes up.. one at 0, the other at 180. In daylight "aircraft spotted!" - Press D or C to dive and Ctrl Page Down (and respectively for Observation persicope) to auto-lower your scope(s). I have always managed to duck under before the bombs hit.
The snorkel makes a nice signiature for the Allied RADAR. :timeout:
Good advice about the pericopes. Don't to forget to Press X to lower your snorkel. And I wouldn't run at more than 6 knots until the snorkel is down, because IRL the snorkel would break at higher speeds.
The best option is to look at the map provided with the game and go to the Atlantic between Britian and North America. You can find some nice spots that are far from any air coverage and along large convoy routes. They also often have a depth of over 1000 meters. If you have to, dive near crush depth where they can't find you.
For me, the "best option" is to be more realistic. The type IX's were not often deployed to the air gap, except for their maiden patrol coming out from Germany to the French bases. The IX boats were most commonly employed along the North and South American coasts and off Africa. That's where mine go.
Also keep in mind that cold water (and air) is denser, thus harder for anything to penetrate (hydrophone, SONAR, etc). Pick a nice ice-cold spot generally around Greenland and Iceland. You will have plenty of large convoys to chew up.:salute:

When need-be, run on the surface at night to the artic and grab your external torpedoes... just to return to your sweet spots.
Sadly, I don't think the game models such temperature effects.
I would not use your RADAR unless in a blinding storm. They have RADAR detectors too! :hmmm:
Agreed! And then only when hydrophones have determined there are no warships nearby.
If you are running GWX3.0 , there are resupply ships and Milchecows that visit said area time to time. You could just stay out there. When you dock at a resupply ship.. it takes you back to the Officer's Office, but everything is disabled. You can only just go out on another patrol (refitted, resupplied, refueled). I have done this, as opposed to spending alot of time and fuel traveling to and from L'Orient. (A hazardous port). Also in GWX is Wolfpacks... you can sometimes find a pair of U-boats to join, and form an "Atlantic Wall".
Good Luck! :up:
Wasn't there a thread about this recently? I don't think there is much evidence that u-boats made repeated trips to a milchcow on a single patrol. Once outbound and once returning was probably the max.

Unless GWX has disabled this, when you dock at a resupply ship some of the Office options are still available: Manage Crew (filing Cabinet in top left corner) and Game Options. What you can't do is modify your boat or your torpedo load out.

More simulation, less arcade game!

Stock SH3 does a random Thermal Layer. One can edit the game files to have a realistic thermal layer for the location and time of year of each patrol. I don't play unmodded SH3 anymore.. too arcadish.

Too unrealistic? There is a reason(s) Germany lost the war... I go out of my way to not relive such foolish strategies

[A Very Super Market]

Well, the Allies make too many ships. Can't really sink them all can you?

[Weiss Pinguin]

Stock SH3 does a random Thermal Layer. One can edit the game files to have a realistic thermal layer for the location and time of year of each patrol. I don't play unmodded SH3 anymore.. too arcadish.
Actually SH3 Commander adds in the thermal layer. It sets it at a random depth each time you play.

[Lzs von swe]

First of, my experience in type IX boats is limited.
Surviving late war is a question of staying on surface for as short periods as possible. In my experience it is better to "bob" up and down then to stay up for longer periods. I go at 1 knot submerged and surface often enough to not have to stay up for more then 20 minutes, max, each time. After that you can be assured some one is coming for you.
The snorkel brings you close to the surface, does not take much sea to have the conning tower breaching the waves. I use it only in calm seas.
And I prefer to surface and have my watch crew on deck, even with the snorkel mounted radar warner. Not all planes use radar..
And I feel safer when I surface in broad day light, with max visibility, then at night or in low visibility. Early war low visibility is the U-boats friend, but that changes.


edit: Uhmm, It says 42, early 43 in the title.. my rant is more about 43 to 45. Oh well.. edit.

[RoaldLarsen]

Surviving late war is a question of staying on surface for as short periods as possible. In my experience it is better to "bob" up and down then to stay up for longer periods. I go at 1 knot submerged and surface often enough to not have to stay up for more then 20 minutes, max, each time. After that you can be assured some one is coming for you.
You are not the first person to advocate this sort of approach. I don't undrstand why it would be better. Could you explain how and why this approach works?

AFAICT, for any given submerged speed the total time to recharge is directly proportional to the time spent running submerged at that speed (barring complications from nearly discharged batteries). So you will still spend the same amount of time surfaced over the length of a patrol. Why would 12 periods of 20 minutes surfaced make you less likely to be spotted than one period of 4 hours?

Also, while running at 1 knot while submerged will lessen the proportion of your time you need to spend recharging, it will nearly triple the time it takes to get from one point to another, compared to running submerged at 3 knots. So unless running at one knot reduces your recharge time by more than about 60%, you still will spend more time on the surface during the trip.

The snorkel brings you close to the surface, does not take much sea to have the conning tower breaching the waves. I use it only in calm seas.

And I prefer to surface and have my watch crew on deck, even with the snorkel mounted radar warner. Not all planes use radar..I have no experience with snorkels yet, but what you say seems reasonable to me.
And I feel safer when I surface in broad day light, with max visibility, then at night or in low visibility. Early war low visibility is the U-boats friend, but that changes.
So you have concluded that the boost in detection of aircraft by your crew is greater than the boost in detection of your boat by enemy aircraft?

[A Very Super Market]

12 periods of 20 minutes spaced out doesn't expose you to less time surfaced, but it does give them less time to pick you up on RADAR and fly over than 4 hours straight

[magicsub2]

i can never afford an ixb! 7500 renown is not worth it, so i bought viic, still has the heavy flack, but it appears later in the war then the ixb who i think has it from the start, so its one light flack 1 heavy flack and a deck gun. its good because you can have the deck gun pounding a ship, heavy flack controlled by you, blasting the ship and the light flak looking out for aircraft.

anyone knows what is better, the quad liht flack or the single heavy flack??

also i saw a picture of a uboat whose conning tower had 2 machineguns, 2 light flacks, a heavy flack at the back and a deck gun at the front, sounds like a u cruiser!

[A Very Super Market]

Neither. Flak is useless on a VII, you can crash dive faster, so you don't to distract the plane like on a IX

[RoaldLarsen]

12 periods of 20 minutes spaced out doesn't expose you to less time surfaced, but it does give them less time to pick you up on RADAR and fly over than 4 hours straightIt's cold up here in the Northwest Passage. Perhaps the low temperature is slowing down my neurons. Please explain it to me in words of one syllable. Why does them having less time to pick you up on RADAR each time you surface mean they are less likely to detect you over the course of a patrol, if you still stay on the surface the same total amount of time during the patrol?

You seem to be implying that the chance of being detected is not a linear function of time surfaced. Why would that be the case?

[Lzs von swe]

Enemy planes will, and do, detect you no matter what you do. The air cover is so dense you risk surfacing right under passing planes. I have often seen planes showing up just minutes after I have dived, after my 20 min up-time.
Running at 1 knot, well it is more a question of surviving then trying to reach your patrol grid. In a type VII boat you can go submerged until your CO levels closes in on 50% and have only 20 min. recharging.
As you will be detected by radar sooner or later I prefer to surface in good visibility to give my crew a chance to spot the ones that have no radar. Hoping that the radar warner will detect the ones that have.

[RoaldLarsen]

Enemy planes will, and do, detect you no matter what you do. The air cover is so dense you risk surfacing right under passing planes. I have often seen planes showing up just minutes after I have dived, after my 20 min up-time.
Running at 1 knot, well it is more a question of surviving then trying to reach your patrol grid. In a type VII boat you can go submerged until your CO levels closes in on 50% and have only 20 min. recharging.
As you will be detected by radar sooner or later I prefer to surface in good visibility to give my crew a chance to spot the ones that have no radar. Hoping that the radar warner will detect the ones that have.Thx for the explanation. I will continue to experiment with different approaches.